Essential/Nonessential vs. Safe/Not safe

[cabanafrau]

This is a situation where nobody can win. There is no solution where everybody is going to say "Yes! That's the right answer!" Some people will be happy, some people won't.

Everyone has their own personal level of risk that they are willing to accept. Unless what someone else is doing is illegal or directly affects you then it's really none of your concern. You cannot control what other people are going to do and should you choose to voice your dissatisfaction with someone else, chances are likely that they won't care and will move on.

And nobody can be expected to have all the right answers. It's new and unknown. You do the best you can with what you know as you go along.

 

[TLSnell1981]

The best guess right now is low viral load at the time of the test. Apparently we do not have a test anywhere in the world that can consistently detect the virus if the patient has a low viral load. So, early on in the infection, or after symptoms have subsided, it is very hard to detect.

Add the fact that some patients are infected much longer than others and it creates a mess. There is one American soldier in Korea who was positive for 7 weeks before he recovered sufficiently to produce 2 negative test results in a row. 7 weeks.

I have wondered if the procedure is done improperly or the specimen mishandled in some false negatives.

 

[CarolAnn856]

Social distancing has one goal: to allow the number of people who need hospital beds to be spread out over time instead of everyone needing a bed at the same time. How is this concept so difficult for so many to understand?? The entire point of flattening the curve was never to prevent everyone from getting COVID-19. That a large number of people will contract it and need hospitalization has always been fully acknowledged.

And yes, it's painful, but we've already lost 30,000 people in the US to this. If we weren't flattening, it would be far worse. And, in fact, is already worse than it could have been if it had been taken seriously in this country immediately. Currently, the worst case scenario with continuing social distancing predicts 240,000 deaths, a horrific number in and of itself. But without distancing, the minimum prediction is that 1.5 million Americans would die. (source) Let that sink in. 1.5 million.

 

[TLSnell1981]

How many will die from poverty if we don't find a way to live with the virus?

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I have wondered if the procedure is done improperly or the specimen mishandled in some false negatives.

I am sure there is some of that - there is with all other tests. But the percentage is probably low, as it is with other tests.

 

[jlwhitney]

How many will die from poverty if we don't find a way to live with the virus?

not just poverty , but mental illness is on the rise as well as domestic abuse.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

How many will die from poverty if we don't find a way to live with the virus?

Hopefully we won't have to find out. I suspect that number will be very low if we can return to work in June, which is the goal in most states right now.

 

[SaintsManiac]

not just poverty , but mental illness is on the rise as well as domestic abuse.

Yes and I don't envy anyone having to make these decisions. You cannot win either way.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Oh absolutely - as i mentioned in my previous post I am pretty sure the tax implication was a heavy influencer in the decision from a government standpoint. But the proposal to keep the liquor stores open at least in our area was also supported by the medical community as they were trying to prepare for the surge. Different goals, same end result.

That's your area..that was my point. Much of the decisions will depend on how the state is even set up and the individual aspects of any given area which have different needs for their citizens.

There has been no indication that the concern over hospitalization rates/admin rates/alcohol withdrawls was a reason to keep the liquor stores open. It was the economic impacts of such closures that has only been talked about (and there's plenty of medical professionals that can and have spoken in our area) would have on a segment of the economy that could engage in lower risk aspects.

From the legal memo: "to exercise “broad discretionary powers (Alcoholic Beverage Control Division) to govern the traffic in alcoholic liquors and to enforce strictly all the provisions of this act in the interest of sanitation, purity of products, truthful representation and honest dealings in such manner as generally will promote the public health and welfare.” With this in mind, many in the industry have recently expressed concerns regarding the COVID-19 pandemic and its effect on licensees that sell alcoholic liquor to the public, specifically involving the potential closure of such businesses in light of increasing social distancing requirements."

The Division of Alcoholic Beverage Control is the one who amended their laws temporarily in my state to allow curbside which was done prior to any stay at home order in the state. It applied also to bars and restaurants (and wineries,etc) that hold the specified liquor licenses of which bars would have had to close and many restaurants would have closed. It allows those places to keep some money coming in, stay open, and pay workers should they opt to do so. It was an economic decision that carried over to how stay at home orders were formulated which came later.

I don't think it is same end result. If your area's goal is to keep alcoholics from going through withdrawls that isn't the same salient concern everywhere. It is different goals agreed on that.

Regardless the end point is liquor stores in various places, though not all, have been deemed essential. For whatever reasons they may be

 

[EveDallas]

How many will die from poverty if we don't find a way to live with the virus?

I've asked this repeatedly and either gotten no answer or told that poverty isn't fatal. But when poverty leads to lack of housing, food, and healthcare, it is.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I am sure there is some of that - there is with all other tests. But the percentage is probably low, as it is with other tests.

Do we know how many false negatives overall..a guess?

 

[TLSnell1981]

Hopefully we won't have to find out. I suspect that number will be very low if we can return to work in June, which is the goal in most states right now.

I've heard speculation it could rival the virus numbers. Suicides, spousal/child/elder abuse/neglect, alcohol/drugs, etc.

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

But the proposal to keep the liquor stores open at least in our area was also supported by the medical community as they were trying to prepare for the surge.

Baloney. At least as many (probably more) people will end up in the ER from drunk driving accidents and violent altercations that occurred under the influence of alcohol than those who would have ER-worthy withdrawal symptoms.

 

[siren0119]

Baloney. At least as many (probably more) people will end up in the ER from drunk driving accidents and violent altercations that occurred under the influence of alcohol as those who would have ER-worthy withdrawal symptoms.

My info is firsthand, how about yours?

 

[scrappinginontario]

If the US starts opening things back up already we better keep the borders closed for a good long time. Canadians are still staying home as there is no indication that this is under control yet and we'll be in a worse state than we were before.

Stay home. Stay safe!

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

My info is firsthand, how about yours?

My information is from proven facts:
https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/states.html
https://nccd.cdc.gov/DPH_ARDI/default/default.aspx
Alcohol abuse causes a lot more illness, injury and death than abstention from alcohol. Keeping the liquor stores open isn't doing hospitals & ERs any kind of favor.

 

[cabanafrau]

I've heard speculation it could rival the virus numbers. Suicides, spousal/child abuse, alcohol/drugs, etc.

"I've heard speculation" begs the question, from where? I'm not suggesting those are not important issues, I see their ravages firsthand on a regular basis via my job.

I'm very concerned about kids now stuck in unstable powderkeg environments without benefit of outside eyes on them on a regular basis, many without food and no sober adults to care or notice.

I'm very concerned knowing exactly what kind of criminals and dirtbags are absolutely being released from jails and/or having prison sentences reduced in order to make places of incarceration less vulnerable to the virus. Many are a very serious threat society should not be facing. Any day now I'm expecting to hear a really horrific news story because the current offense one of these dirtbags was incarcerated on doesn't qualify them to be considered a threat to public safety. Reading their record with a modicum of common sense demonstrates just how much of a threat they actually pose. Those shock waves are going to reverberate for a long time.

 

[siren0119]

My information is from proven facts:
https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/states.html
https://nccd.cdc.gov/DPH_ARDI/default/default.aspx
Alcohol abuse causes a lot more illness, injury and death than abstention from alcohol.

I was more referring to your assertion that my statement was "Baloney" LOL.

One dear friend is an administrator with the largest nurse's union in the state. Another friend is a hospital administrator that served on a committee formed to discuss the state's response to the pandemic. So my statements are pretty well informed from people directly involved in the decisions made within my state.

 

[cabanafrau]

If the US starts opening things back up already we better keep the borders closed for a good long time. Canadians are still staying home as there is no indication that this is under control yet and we'll be in a worse state than we were before.

Stay home. Stay safe!

That actually makes good sense. It's not 100% closed now however. Living in a border area, many Canadians are continuing to travel back and forth to work, many are medical workers in our metro area.

 

[TLSnell1981]

"I've heard speculation" begs the question, from where? I'm not suggesting those are not important issues, I see their ravages firsthand on a regular basis via my job.

I'm very concerned about kids now stuck in unstable powderkeg environments without benefit of outside eyes on them on a regular basis, many without food and no sober adults to care or notice.

I'm very concerned knowing exactly what kind of criminals and dirtbags are absolutely being released from jails and/or having prison sentences reduced in order to make places of incarceration less vulnerable to the virus. Many are a very serious threat society should not be facing. Any day now I'm expecting to hear a really horrific news story because the current offense one of these dirtbags was incarcerated on doesn't qualify them to be considered a threat to public safety. Reading their record with a modicum of common sense demonstrates just how much of a threat they actually pose. Those shock waves are going to reverberate for a long time.

Mental health professionals and social workers....I pay attention to their concerns.