DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss.

[VGCgroupie]

Radicalized, you say? Go on then you tease, don’t leave us hanging like that. This thread needs a bit of new life anyway.

Right??? No offense to people here but I really value ehh input over most others. Maybe he can just illustrate in a spreadsheet either

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

Right??? No offense to people here but I really value ehh input over most others. Maybe he can just illustrate in a spreadsheet either

I truly look forward to a most logical and analytical takedown. I don’t even care which side they’re on, either I’ll learn something or feel vindicated lol

 

[TCRAIG]

What about moving the 11 month window opening time to 9am on the computer and 8 am on the phone, one transaction per call.

This one gets a ‘OH HECK FIRE NO’ from me - imagine queuing up on the phone along with 500 or 5000 or whatever number of people at 8am Eastern with DVC having only so many CMs to book resorts - talk about a cluster! That’s why they went with online bookings be begin with - saves them lots of money.
Really, let’s not ask DVC to grossly alter the product just for the handful of BW and AK Studios that seem to be the ones that people raise the most concern over…

 

[lowlight]

Good to hear nothing has changed here despite the new T&Cs from DVC

I will say my time away from thinking about DVC daily let me reset my perspective and ultimately radicalized me on this particular issue (relative to the norms of this forum).

And now time to back away from this thread before I say more and end up getting banned

Radicalized...ooh, but for WHICH TEAM!?

Team Robber Barons, or Team Justice?

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

This one gets a ‘OH HECK FIRE NO’ from me - imagine queuing up on the phone along with 500 or 5000 or whatever number of people at 8am Eastern with DVC having only so many CMs to book resorts - talk about a cluster! That’s why they went with online bookings be begin with - saves them lots of money.
Really, let’s not ask DVC to grossly alter the product just for the handful of BW and AK Studios that seem to be the ones that people raise the most concern over…

You have over 1500 points at many different resorts with lots of options, prefer 1bdrms even solo and has many years of going to WDW under your belt, so it’s easy to say this. I’m not trying to call you out on this, you deserve your points and should enjoy your membership to its fullest but it’s a different thing for the many newer members (and plenty of older ones I’m sure!) with 150-200 points who can only really afford the studios for one trip a year and have to fight with commercial renters. And I say this as someone with a similar level of privilege, though not quite the 1000 Point Club yet, but one can dream.

It’s also definitely not just AKV and BWV. I own neither of those so my personal experience has nothing to do with those resorts. I’ve had no problem with getting rooms at 2/5 of my home resorts in at 11mos and even at 9 or 10mos. I’m sure if people were to take a guess, they would know which ones are the problem resorts based on the fact that they’ve come up many times in many threads about availability issues. So again, not just 2 resorts. At what point does it become a problem big enough for DVC to address in your opinion?

And anyway, I doubt Disney will actually do this fix but I don’t think it’s grossly altering the product to make people call in for the first hour of every day if they really want to ensure FCFS for their stay. It’s how it used to be, but now with the benefit of online booking just a short time later. It’s not perfect and like I said, a bit of a hassle, but it would definitely help alleviate the crush of spec rentals by commercial renters.

 

[Brianstl]

Be honest …what is your definition of an owner renting in a way that makes them a comemrucal enterpise and not just a renter within their rights?

Plus, some of the ideas here are being presented as a way to help with some of the issues those large point owners who rent thousands are doing that impact owners.

If the point difference between RV and PV at BWV, wasn’t as great…or even the same, and only slept 4 like they originally did, they would be less attractive to those who target them.

So, it would automatically help because right now, getting any studio at BWV most of the year is not hard at 11 months.

Under Florida law any rental of points no matter the total amount would constitute a commercial use of those points.

 

[Sandisw]

Under Florida law any rental of points no matter the total amount would constitute a commercial use of those points.

Can you share the specific statute you are referring to here?

I’d like to see how this law compares to the condo laws of FL 718 I have found to see where it differs.

The only other reference I have ever found is that is governed by FL 721 and the actual contract terms in deciding the rules for rental of point based timeshares.

Appreciate it!!

 

[Sandisw]

Wouldn’t that only apply to those that was in favor of that change?

That would severely limit the use of the membership and that’s why I assume it would take a vote - and since it only applies to those in favor (I assume) it really wouldn’t matter.

No, the owners can vote to amend the POS and it would be a change for all.

The only law that says owners who don’t vote for a change would be the specific one passed in 2021 FL 718.111 which specially related to making limitations to renting beyond what already exists.

ETA: and that is only for owners who owned before the change occurred.


This could be done outside of the idea of renting. Honestly, though, I doubt you’d get enough owners for each unit to even be willing to ask for the vote.

 

[Sandisw]

I think many years ago you could split the direct contracts as low as you more or less wanted. Maybe 10 was the lowest they would go.

25 was the lowest I remember since being an owner.

 

[Sandisw]

I was under the impression DVC could make some adjustments "for the benefit of the Members" without jumping thru hoops, like they did when returns after Covid caused challenges?

I've always thought there should be a 7 month, 11 month, and an 11.5 month priority - with the 11.5 month going to reservations where the Lead guest was a Deeded owner with a credit card in their name linked to the reservation. No modifications allowed (would have to cancel and rebook). Just my two cents worth.

It depends what type of changes you are talking about.

They can decide HRR for booking and modifications with the only rule that all owners have a one month advantage over non owners.

They can not have a different booking rules for any home resort owner…that is not allowed under FL timeshare law. It’s why they can’t have different booking timelines for resale vs direct when booking the home resort.

Saying that owners who want certain rooms for themselves vs someone else would seem to be in direct conflict of that as well as the first come, first serve requirement that all rooms open each day must be available to whomever wants to reserve it.

Things like amended banking and borrowing can be changed, home resort window can be changed down to one month or up as large as they want.

They can limit modifications, lead guest changes, and add penalties as they see fit…but they have to apply consistently to owners at the resort.

Its why they could amend the transfer rules, but if they wanted to get rid of transfers all together, that should be seen as a material change and thus owners would be required to approve it.

Any change of the language of the POS that would be a material change to the contract must be voted on by owners.

That is why certain rules can’t be different based on who is staying in a room given that the declaration and other parts of the POS consider owners, guests, leasees, and exchangers the same in many situations.

And that is why this may not be as simple as some of us think because before they can even decide on the commercial use policy, they have to make sure they don’t violate any of the material rights we have as owners.

 

[Sandisw]

But phone would still be much slower than online.
If they swapped online at 9am and phone at 8am. Then the phones could close 1-2 hours earlier to compensate, that might work.

I think booking time should be the same…but the standard is that as long as it’s available to everyone, then it counts.

Plus the whole purpose of having online was for DVC to reduce staffing and long hold times for owners, especially given how large the membership is now.

 

[Sandisw]

You have over 1500 points at many different resorts with lots of options, prefer 1bdrms even solo and has many years of going to WDW under your belt, so it’s easy to say this. I’m not trying to call you out on this, you deserve your points and should enjoy your membership to its fullest but it’s a different thing for the many newer members (and plenty of older ones I’m sure!) with 150-200 points who can only really afford the studios for one trip a year and have to fight with commercial renters. And I say this as someone with a similar level of privilege, though not quite the 1000 Point Club yet, but one can dream.

It’s also definitely not just AKV and BWV. I own neither of those so my personal experience has nothing to do with those resorts. I’ve had no problem with getting rooms at 2/5 of my home resorts in at 11mos and even at 9 or 10mos. I’m sure if people were to take a guess, they would know which ones are the problem resorts based on the fact that they’ve come up many times in many threads about availability issues. So again, not just 2 resorts. At what point does it become a problem big enough for DVC to address in your opinion?

And anyway, I doubt Disney will actually do this fix but I don’t think it’s grossly altering the product to make people call in for the first hour of every day if they really want to ensure FCFS for their stay. It’s how it used to be, but now with the benefit of online booking just a short time later. It’s not perfect and like I said, a bit of a hassle, but it would definitely help alleviate the crush of spec rentals by commercial renters.

Except reducing calls to MS was the main reason they changed from check out day to check in plus 7.

Owners were calling in daily to book to ensure no gaps in their trip.

I don’t see them ever returning to calling in as the priority for booking.

The best option IMOfor those hard to get rooms is the special seasons list for the high demand times like December.

I get that some new owners don’t have enough points to do more than studios, but unfortunately, they don’t own a product that treats room sizes differently when it comes to booking.

So, if they can do something about the large point owners who are clearly renting thousands of points then some of the additional things they do, like taking hard to book rooms to spec rent, using bots and walking, will naturally happen less frequently.

The bigger unknown is even with them no longer doing those things, will there actually be a meaningful change in the success rate for those trying for those rooms.

 

[Cyberc1978]

25 was the lowest I remember since being an owner.

Do you mean the lowest you were allowed to buy or the lowest contract DVC would allow you to split your purchase in?

For me I was allowed to buy 25 points at BLT to get direct benefits.

 

[Mouseforward]

Under Florida law any rental of points no matter the total amount would constitute a commercial use of those points.

Under what law?

 

[Sandisw]

Do you mean the lowest you were allowed to buy or the lowest contract DVC would allow you to split your purchase in?

For me I was allowed to buy 25 points at BLT to get direct benefits.

25 being the lowest size contract…but I did remember that they allowed a few smaller ones when BLT first went on sale because they adjusted the point charts before it opened.

And, I believe they allowed some to go with FW…but outside of that, 25 was the smallest they would go…since CCV, though, it’s now 50 for new resorts.

 

[ehh]

Right??? No offense to people here but I really value ehh input over most others. Maybe he can just illustrate in a spreadsheet either

No spreadsheet, but how about a chart?


I'm the orange square. Based on my pre-break read of the forums, the rest of DISBoards members are blue dots.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Thanks for sharing. Would you mind sharing how many points you had at the time?

And, did they cancel any reservations? Or they didn’t want to allow you to add more points?

No cancellation of reservations nor any hints they were considering that. They held up a direct purchase while they reviewed my rental and selling history. They mentioned they were going to be looking for an online rental presence. As I mentioned I only had heaving renting during covid. And I only sold a couple of contracts way back in 2011. Far from being a contract flipper which they should have been able to tell within one review of my account but even that seemed to take some time for them to figure out.

Ultimately the last time I called it was a yeah, well, you can buy.

 

[Mouseforward]

Ultimately the last time I called it was a yeah, well, you can buy.

I would have replied , well thanks for your permission to give you money. Actually I would have hung up and bought resale.

 

[mkatsy]

Can you share the specific statute you are referring to here?

I’d like to see how this law compares to the condo laws of FL 718 I have found to see where it differs.

The only other reference I have ever found is that is governed by FL 721 and the actual contract terms in deciding the rules for rental of point based timeshares.

Appreciate it!!

It’s true … but it’s never (to the best of my knowledge) enforced. I’ll go find it it’s in the statutes on short term rentals

 

[Sandisw]

It’s true … but it’s never (to the best of my knowledge) enforced. I’ll go find it it’s in the statutes on short term rentals

Thank you because what I have found has only been they are allowed but governed by the terms of the contract.