DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss.

[mkatsy]

I think DVC will start asking to see the signed contracts for the rentals if they get threatening from Mega Renter Owners Lawyers, which will plainly show they are breaking their contracts.

The Florida Department of Revenue has the legal right to subpoena witnesses in cases of suspected fraud. They can just require the room occupants ( who’s names and addresses the mouse has in a database) to turn over their receipts of payment for the transaction, those mega renters better pray to their preferred deity that sales tax was charged and remitted for the past three years. Do they sell ears in Orange?

 

[Sandisw]

Are you saying if a mega renter gets their reservations cancelled and they asks why, DVC needs to explain themselves?

Yes. They have to at least let the owner know what they did that was wrong. The owner doesn’t have to agree with the decision.

But, they can’t say “you broke the commercial purpose rules and when you say “how…what did I do wrong” they can’t say “ we don’t have to tell you but you did”

Take the group they have mentioned. They can point to the fact thay have what looks like rentals with thousands of points across several membership and say that is what triggered the cancellation.

ETA: And this matches what DVC explained to me when I took the time last year to talk with them.

Owners are responsible for understanding and interpreting that clause.

And until one gets told by DVC their actions are incorrect, all one can do is make a personal decison.

For example. If one one thinks renting some reservations every year is within their right to rent, then that is what they should do until DVC contracts them and says it’s not or comes out and directly tells owners you that is a violation of the commercial purpose clause.

But, there is a reason why we haven’t seen stronger language from them or reports of enforcement, more than 6 months after the meeting.

What that is? I won’t even attempt to speculate.

 

[IMMkXLVI]

We have Riviera direct and Grand Floridian resale, both in 2024. The rule of 20 was abolished? so it doesn't apply any longer? Would it have applied to our GF given it was resale?

How can we tell if we have Membership Magic Beyond? I thought I bought it but I don't see it in my Apple Wallet when I look at the Disney AP.

 

[Sandisw]

We have Riviera direct and Grand Floridian resale, both in 2024. The rule of 20 was abolished? so it doesn't apply any longer? Would it have applied to our GF given it was resale?

How can we tell if we have Membership Magic Beyond? I thought I bought it but I don't see it in my Apple Wallet when I look at the Disney AP.

Was it officially abolished? We honestly don’t know because there doesn’t seem to be anything offical from DVC it’s no longer the policy.

The VGF POS and several others said a policy exists and you have to request to review it..

That is the same process for other documents which they don’t automatically give you…for example, if you want a copy of the property management agreement between DVC and Disney, you have to ask for it to be sent.

For MMB, when you look at the back of your digital card in your wallet, it will show DVC - BY.

 

[IMMkXLVI]

That's what BY means! I posted in another thread because I had no idea it was that.
Thanks!

 

[DougEMG]

So, should we assume that if the number of spec rental listings has a massive decrease in listings that DVC has indeed done something about commercial renting? Anyone want to volunteer to track the number of those listings say on a weekly basis and report back here.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

The Florida Department of Revenue has the legal right to subpoena witnesses in cases of suspected fraud. They can just require the room occupants ( who’s names and addresses the mouse has in a database) to turn over their receipts of payment for the transaction, those mega renters better pray to their preferred deity that sales tax was charged and remitted for the past three years. Do they sell ears in Orange?

Yeah, not only are there potential tax consequences, but Disney has a room manifest of everybody they’ve ever rented to who wanted to use any deluxe resort perks— you think a bunch of randos you rented to online are going to lie under oath to Disney to protect [name of spec renter here]. I don’t.

So, should we assume that if the number of spec rental listings has a massive decrease in listings that DVC has indeed done something about commercial renting? Anyone want to volunteer to track the number of those listings say on a weekly basis and report back here.

So this is a great idea for the huge renters who post online — BUT there are dozens to hundreds of people who own 500-50,000 points who spec rent out on their FB groups and presumably other social media venues well.

 

[lowlight]

So, should we assume that if the number of spec rental listings has a massive decrease in listings that DVC has indeed done something about commercial renting? Anyone want to volunteer to track the number of those listings say on a weekly basis and report back here.

I have noticed no change in the number of spec rentals on any website I check regularly, although Facebook is a tough one to "count" because of the way groups are set up.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I have noticed no change in the number of spec rentals on any website I check regularly, although Facebook is a tough one to "count" because of the way groups are set up.

As the old saying goes, "Talk is cheap." Nothing is going to happen until we see some bite in the bark.

 

[Sandisw]

So, should we assume that if the number of spec rental listings has a massive decrease in listings that DVC has indeed done something about commercial renting? Anyone want to volunteer to track the number of those listings say on a weekly basis and report back here.

I think the one and two night stays might be good to track or the popular BWV or AKV rooms since those are the ones that appear to be the choices of the large point owners who rent a lot.

But again, since we don’t know whose memberships these are on, I’m not sure if this would be noticeable because my guess is that those large point owners renting thousands of points are doing many more on demand rentals than spec rentals.

And, those can’t be tracked.

 

[matt_in_nh]

Number of contracts for sale continues to grow (not outrageously though) and a bunch more stripped contracts hit today....no way to prove it but I think the announcement is having an affect to some of the major renters.

 

[Sandisw]

I have noticed no change in the number of spec rentals on any website I check regularly, although Facebook is a tough one to "count" because of the way groups are set up.

There has been no change at this time in MS preventing lead name changes or booking rentals when directly told they would be one, even with the asking you to attest.

So, nothing has changed on that front.

 

[Sandisw]

Number of contracts for sale continues to grow (not outrageously though) and a bunch more stripped contracts hit today....no way to prove it but I think the announcement is having an affect to some of the major renters.

It could definitely make someone think twice who knows they fit into the “large point owners renting thousands”

If I had to speculate, I think the fact that we didn’t hear of cancellations happening is that DVC may have decided to start the official tracking June 1st.

Even if they notified owners who they have identified, they may have decided to not cancel anything made prior so the renter isn’t left without a room?

 

[matt_in_nh]

It could definitely make someone think twice who knows they fit into the “large point owners renting thousands”

If I had to speculate, I think the fact that we didn’t hear of cancellations happening is that DVC may have decided to start the office tracking June 1st.

Even if they notified owners who they have identified, they may have decided to not cancel anything made prior so the renter isn’t left without a room?

It is definitely possible Disney has contacted some owners directly and I would say it is very likely they will let existing reservations go. The "effect" of this really wont be known for for a while.

 

[Sandisw]

It is definitely possible Disney has contacted some owners directly and I would say it is very likely they will let existing reservations go. The "effect" of this really wont be known for for a while.

And that assumes that what they decide to do can even be seen in the rental market.

Owners renting thousands of points who do a lot of on demand rentals…and whose activity goes to acceptable levels…may never be noticeable.

 

[Mommb]

I was just thinking, will a clamp down on renting have an impact on their cruise line reservations?
Our last cruise was booked by renting points and funding the cruise. Their internal point conversion isn't very favorable.

Obviously no one knows for sure, but my guess is that if someone who has typically used their points for Disney resorts books a Disney cruise and books a DVC reservation in someone else's name using their points to cover all or some of the cost of the cruise, that would be considered personal use of the points.

DVC knows when members cruise, because they invite members to the member reception. They do not know whether a booking is a rental or not, but I'm sure they're aware that many people rent out points rather than using points directly for a cruise. Not only do cruises costs an excessive number of points, but bookings using points must be made through DVC so can't take advantage of any onboard credits or offers through other travel agencies. I can't see DVC harassing people who have booked a Disney cruise and correspondingly aren't using all of their points themselves in a particular year, because such people are still Disney customers.

Could the push against commercial lending cause some people to be more leery of renting points? Sure it could, but I'm not sure it will affect enough people to cause a meaningful shift in cruise reservations.

 

[Tatebeck]

They also took away the ability for recently purchased resale points to be used directly for cruises anyways, so I expect they can't really stop renting points to cover a cruise instead. Otherwise they may have to be more strict for direct purchasers than they are for resale purchasers who can't officially do the swap, which wouldn't make much sense.

 

[Sandisw]

They also took away the ability for recently purchased resale points to be used directly for cruises anyways, so I expect they can't really stop renting points to cover a cruise instead. Otherwise they may have to be more strict for direct purchasers than they are for resale purchasers who can't officially do the swap, which wouldn't make much sense.

Not sure what you mean be stricter for direct owners?

Why would the type of points one owns make a difference in whether you are renting to levels that DVC would consider for a commercial purpose?

 

[J-Dog]

Yeah - I have not seen a new angle in a bit , nor have we gotten any word on if it was discussed at the member meeting.

The whole thing could be a huge nothing.

Yeah, how many pages was the nothing-burger thread about the CFW Trust that was supposed to completely transform DVC?

 

[Tatebeck]

Not sure what you mean be stricter for direct owners?

If they try to curb rentals swapping with third parties going towards cruises, they would likely also be trying to increase the number of people who trade their points for the cruises directly through Disney. But recent resale buyers can't directly trade for cruises anymore so there really isn't a way for Disney to stop resale members from doing it. If they tried to curb it whatever they would do would likely affect direct members or grandfathered resale members as they are the ones who can actually trade for the cruises directly from Disney.

I don't think they will do anything against renting/swaps cruises though personally. If anything they will give better swap values in the future as they vastly increase their number of ships. It still means the money is going to Disney and it would be messy to try and do, like I mentioned above