DVC should not allow people to cancel

[AstroBlasters]

As I re-read this thread I still am shocked and appalled by the lack of empathy by the OP.

The last poster shows a clear example of why it is important for Disney to have the capacity to house people who are on site and can’t leave due to a massive weather event.

 

[lowlight]

As I re-read this thread I still am shocked and appalled by the lack of empathy by the OP.

The last poster shows a clear example of why it is important for Disney to have the capacity to house people who are on site and can’t leave due to a massive weather event.

While I don’t agree with the OP, I didn’t see him as having a lack of empathy. I viewed his post as coming from a business “rules are the rules” standpoint. I can see the argument from both sides even if I disagree with his conclusion. The world is a better place with a little empathy, but also the world is unfortunately run by legal contracts and inserting empathy into those can be problematic.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

While I don’t agree with the OP, I didn’t see him as having a lack of empathy. I viewed his post as coming from a business “rules are the rules” standpoint. I can see the argument from both sides even if I disagree with his conclusion. The world is a better place with a little empathy, but also the world is unfortunately run by legal contracts and inserting empathy into those can be problematic.

The "rule" has always been there afaik. Drusba nicely outlined the legal why. The DVC information is a lot for a person buying to absorb assuming they read thru it all prior to purchasing but it was available. ie - either this fits rules are rules and OP missed it or just disagrees with the rules.

 

[AstroBlasters]

While I don’t agree with the OP, I didn’t see him as having a lack of empathy. I viewed his post as coming from a business “rules are the rules” standpoint. I can see the argument from both sides even if I disagree with his conclusion. The world is a better place with a little empathy, but also the world is unfortunately run by legal contracts and inserting empathy into those can be problematic.

I’m a big believer in contract law and property rights…. so I completely get it from that perspective.

I’ll step off my soap box…

 

[lowlight]

The "rule" has always been there afaik. Drusba nicely outlined the legal why. The DVC information is a lot for a person buying to absorb assuming they read thru it all prior to purchasing but it was available. ie - either this fits rules are rules and OP missed it or just disagrees with the rules.

I agree, Drusba summed it up nicely and I believe the OP amended his first post because of it. I just don’t think he was being purposefully callous about it is all.

 

[RamblinWreck]

Considering we get the max breakage every year, I’m pretty sure there are more wasted points that DVC rents every year than anything “extra” we can see from these cancellations.

Wait, what percentage of DVC points go unused every year?

It would pain me to let any of them expire.

 

[zavandor]

Wait, what percentage of DVC points go unused every year?

It would pain me to let any of them expire.

We don't know, but there is a lot of breakage. Disney rents those rooms to offset dues, but only up to 5% of the resort operating budget, they pocket the rest. Until now, every resort has reached the cap every year, so it's a lot of rooms.

A lot of breakage is generated by the extra points created by the lockoff premium: every time a lockoff 2BR is booked as a studio + 1BR, a few extra points are used then those declared for the unit. Those extra point generate breakage, that Disney can rent.

Rooms not booked 60 days in advance can also be rented as breakage, but I don't think there are that many anymore, DVC became much more competitive.

Also, as incredible as it is, people let their points expire, or they have to cancel and cannot rebook, or stop going and sell after a while with loaded contracts that cannot be used etc etc.

However, we don't know the exact numbers.

 

[Sandisw]

We don't know, but there is a lot of breakage. Disney rents those rooms to offset dues, but only up to 5% of the resort operating budget, they pocket the rest. Until now, every resort has reached the cap every year, so it's a lot of rooms.

A lot of breakage is generated by the extra points created by the lockoff premium: every time a lockoff 2BR is booked as a studio + 1BR, a few extra points are used then those declared for the unit. Those extra point generate breakage, that Disney can rent.

Rooms not booked 60 days in advance can also be rented as breakage, but I don't think there are that many anymore, DVC became much more competitive.

Also, as incredible as it is, people let their points expire, or they have to cancel and cannot rebook, or stop going and sell after a while with loaded contracts that cannot be used etc etc.

However, we don't know the exact numbers.

Actually, we only get 2.5% of operating costs for breakage!

 

[AstroBlasters]

Wait, what percentage of DVC points go unused every year?

It would pain me to let any of them expire.

Aulani earns $2m a year in breakage and late fees…..

 

[Disdreaming479]

Aulani earns $2m a year in breakage and late fees…..

Has anyone added up the breakage and late fees across all resorts for a year?

 

[AstroBlasters]

Has anyone added up the breakage and late fees across all resorts for a year?

It’s in the annual documents for each resort.

 

[IMMkXLVI]

I for one factored in the trip cancellation flexibility when buying Riviera direct. Other time shares we own have far less flexibility and we have not expanded those time shares in all the years we have owned them. In the 8 short months we have owned Riviera at 300 points, we added 125 from Grand Floridian and I can see us adding more.

I doubt very much anyone would willingly travel into a hurricane just to use a planned and paid for vacation. Money can be replaced.

Kudos to Disney for returning points.

 

[bumbershoot]

Disney should not be giving away my contract value and holding because they want to feel nice. I will 100% say being at Disney during a hurricane was my favorite trip

Were you already there, or did you travel in from WI to get there?

My Florida aunt died in October just days before Milton. I desperately wanted to be there for my cousin, but absolutely positively was not going to fly into Florida to deal with a hurricane. It would have been completely ridiculous to do so, and my cousin forbade it. She did not have any interest in being a storm-therapist to a west-coast person. And I definitely would not fly in for a vacation. (to finish my story...Milton caused delays with everything death-related, so the funeral was held in mid-November, with no hurricanes threatening)

Every time a room is not booked here is now excess points in the system.

OK. Can you continue your thought process? Because I still can't see how that impacts you or me.

 

[sethschroeder]

Were you already there, or did you travel in from WI to get there?

My Florida aunt died in October just days before Milton. I desperately wanted to be there for my cousin, but absolutely positively was not going to fly into Florida to deal with a hurricane. It would have been completely ridiculous to do so, and my cousin forbade it. She did not have any interest in being a storm-therapist to a west-coast person. And I definitely would not fly in for a vacation. (to finish my story...Milton caused delays with everything death-related, so the funeral was held in mid-November, with no hurricanes threatening)



OK. Can you continue your thought process? Because I still can't see how that impacts you or me.

We added on extra nights to make sure we got in before the hurricane yes. Otherwise we would have arrived the day the hurricane hit likely. Being in a hurricane in Orlando at Disney is not what you see on the weather channel at the coast. It's not like you skipping Disney suddenly has them close down AKV or VGF.

Regarding my thought process? DVC has every point accounted for to book every room for every night in the year. Meaning when you refund nights there is now more points than rooms to book.

The saving grace people have pointed out is that breakage occurs regularly where points go to waste so you don't end up with a complete shortage in rooms.

In the end there is a reason insurance is sold for DVC and travel in general and should be something possibly the membership has to pay back the dues to people who cancel.

It won't change and seems most people are for the lax in enforcement in rules.

Personally had forgotten about this thread even as most people seemed strongly in favor of giving points back so took it as lesson learned about what the membership wants.

I would also point out if DVC was taking cancelled rooms and providing them for free to those impacted by the storm my point of view would be different. Instead they turn around and then either rent them for point or for cash from what I understand or they stay empty.

 

[Chuck S]

Regarding my thought process? DVC has every point accounted for to book every room for every night in the year. Meaning when you refund nights there is now more points than rooms to book.

Not necessarily, especially at resorts with a lot of two bedroom lock-offs due to the lock off premium, as the total points of that resort are based on those rooms as two bedrooms. As long as there are two bedroom lockoffs and a high demand for studios, there will likely never be more points than rooms.

 

[Rochester Disney Fan]

Do you understand how your holdings in DVC work? Every point within DVC for a 50 year period is aligned to bookable rooms. Every time a room is not booked here is now excess points in the system.

Disney always has more inventory declared then total points which helps use up excess points.

 

[Sandisw]

We added on extra nights to make sure we got in before the hurricane yes. Otherwise we would have arrived the day the hurricane hit likely. Being in a hurricane in Orlando at Disney is not what you see on the weather channel at the coast. It's not like you skipping Disney suddenly has them close down AKV or VGF.

Regarding my thought process? DVC has every point accounted for to book every room for every night in the year. Meaning when you refund nights there is now more points than rooms to book.

The saving grace people have pointed out is that breakage occurs regularly where points go to waste so you don't end up with a complete shortage in rooms.

In the end there is a reason insurance is sold for DVC and travel in general and should be something possibly the membership has to pay back the dues to people who cancel.

It won't change and seems most people are for the lax in enforcement in rules.

Personally had forgotten about this thread even as most people seemed strongly in favor of giving points back so took it as lesson learned about what the membership wants.

I would also point out if DVC was taking cancelled rooms and providing them for free to those impacted by the storm my point of view would be different. Instead they turn around and then either rent them for point or for cash from what I understand or they stay empty.

The only point to make though it is not a violation of any rules because DVC has an officially hurricane policy.

Canceling less than 31 days results in holding unless the hurricane policy is enacted.

Now, if you feel DVC should not have a weather related policy that is different, then certainly something you can share with them.

 

[TikiRob]

If anyone wants to cancel December 14-16 at OKW, I'm cool with it...

 

[RichVIII]

We have ridden out a hurricane at Disney and had a trip cancelled because of won (Milton). One way I looked at it was when the airport closes, there are people who can’t fly out and need a room and since we couldn’t fly in, they were able to take our room.

 

[drusba]

Wait, what percentage of DVC points go unused every year?

It would pain me to let any of them expire.

The issue that exists is that we really cannot determine how many points go unused or how many rooms DVCM rents out annually. What we can see, as "breakage," at 60-days out in the reservation site is that there are often some rooms available at 60-days out, although how many is not known. However, what one may see then on the site tells you little. That is because DVCM is not limited to doing any such rentals only beginning 60 days out. Under the Florida timeshare statute, sec. 721.13(12)(a), the managing entity, based on historical reservation patterns and other information, is entitled, long before 60-days out, to anticipate the likely vacancy rate for rooms for any given time and do rentals for the applicable reservation times. When you still see rooms available at 60-days out, that merely means there are still some rooms left, despite DVCM likely already having done many rentals for the applicable time period.