DVC Point Charts for 2011 - Post chart release discussion begins on Pg 14

[BWV Dreamin]

I am one who bought BWV for the boardwalk view. If there are significant changes made to the points chart with respect to BW view I will be selling.

In regards to BC, one reason it is priced higher on the resales market is because it is 7 yrs. newer (or around that) and sold for more than BWV. The price spread between the two is not as significant now as it has been.

 

[tjkraz]

I am one who bought BWV for the boardwalk view. If there are significant changes made to the points chart with respect to BW view I will be selling.

Personally I would need far more information before making such a decision. Generally speaking I can only think of a handful of reasons which would prompt me to sell:

1. Change in vacation habits. If I weren't visiting WDW or DL as much in the past, I would consider selling some points. But that doesn't have any real correlation to a reallocation.

2. Feel abused or manipulated by DVC. If I felt that DVC was running the program in an irresponsible manner, I would prompt me to reconsider ownership. But that's certainly not the case with a reallocation. We all knew going in that it could happen.

The entire foundation of DVC is supply and demand. There's a reason that New Year's Eve costs more points than a Wednesday in September. There's a reason that Savanna View costs more than a Value villa. And it really wouldn't surprise me if a BoardWalk view villa one day cost more than a pool view at BWV. These types of adjustments are necessary in order to make the system work.

3. The value of DVC is diminished. This is where a reallocation could come into play. If I suddenly find that using DVC points for a certain destination is consistently less economical than paying cash, then obviously I would sell.

This did happen with the weekday/weekend reallocation to some extent, but not to any level that would have me considering a sale. If DVC can justify charging more points for a given villa, it stands to reason that CRO is also charging more dollars for that same room.

Certainly there will continue to be changes to DVC which alter its value (or at least our perception of its value) to each individual member. But even when I am "hurt" by something like a reallocation, a decision to sell will be a very measured response and driven mostly by questions as to whether there is a more economical way to secure similar lodging at these Disney destinations. I'm not going to sell my points simply because the program has changed--change is inevitable.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

The reason I may sell are just not that emotional nor complicated. Basically I purchased a set amount of points (with more as a buffer than I exactly needed) to vacation in a bw view unit. These points per night have not changed in 16 yrs. For reasons we members will never know, Disney has chosen to reallocate two years in a row. Now once, ok. Twice, I'm not happy. If my resort gets affected enough to where I can no longer vacation as planned, I will sell. Period. Not rocket science here. For the dues I am paying, the parking changes that have created issues for owners , changing bw view points significantly will cause me to sell. And I'll sell it cheap. I won't loose any investment either between the trips I've taken and the points I've rented I'll get all my money back.

Personally I would need far more information before making such a decision. Generally speaking I can only think of a handful of reasons which would prompt me to sell:

1. Change in vacation habits. If I weren't visiting WDW or DL as much in the past, I would consider selling some points. But that doesn't have any real correlation to a reallocation.

2. Feel abused or manipulated by DVC. If I felt that DVC was running the program in an irresponsible manner, I would prompt me to reconsider ownership. But that's certainly not the case with a reallocation. We all knew going in that it could happen.

The entire foundation of DVC is supply and demand. There's a reason that New Year's Eve costs more points than a Wednesday in September. There's a reason that Savanna View costs more than a Value villa. And it really wouldn't surprise me if a BoardWalk view villa one day cost more than a pool view at BWV. These types of adjustments are necessary in order to make the system work.

3. The value of DVC is diminished. This is where a reallocation could come into play. If I suddenly find that using DVC points for a certain destination is consistently less economical than paying cash, then obviously I would sell.

This did happen with the weekday/weekend reallocation to some extent, but not to any level that would have me considering a sale. If DVC can justify charging more points for a given villa, it stands to reason that CRO is also charging more dollars for that same room.

Certainly there will continue to be changes to DVC which alter its value (or at least our perception of its value) to each individual member. But even when I am "hurt" by a reallocation, a decision to sell will be a very measured response and driven mostly by questions as to whether there is a more economical way to secure similar lodging at these Disney destinations.

 

[tjkraz]

The reason I may sell are just not that emotional nor complicated. Basically I purchased a set amount of points (with more as a buffer than I exactly needed) to vacation in a bw view unit. These points per night have not changed in 16 yrs. For reasons we members will never know, Disney has chosen to reallocate two years in a row. Now once, ok. Twice, I'm not happy. If my resort gets affected enough to where I can no longer vacation as planned, I will sell. Period. Not rocket science here. For the dues I am paying, the parking changes that have created issues for owners , changing bw view points significantly will cause me to sell. And I'll sell it cheap. I won't loose any investment either between the trips I've taken and the points I've rented I'll get all my money back.

The bold text is probably where we diverge.

IMO it all depends upon the final numbers. Even if the reallocation leaves me 10 points short, I certainly wouldn't view that as a sure sign of selling. I'm not prepared to sell my points and start paying $700 per night for a One Bedroom suite at the BoardWalk Inn or some similar destination due to a moderate shortfall.

There are many other responses available to me including borrowing points, visiting during cheaper seasons (if something goes up, something else must go down), booking a cheaper view, booking a smaller room, cutting one night off of my trips every couple of years, or even adding more points.

I do think the reasons for reallocating in consecutive years are pretty clear--the charts are so far out of whack that adjustments greater than 20% are required for some nights. What we'll probably never know is why they waited so long to do it. Jim Lewis certainly shares some of the blame but it was 7-8 years since the last reallocation before he even joined DVC. This strikes me as an adjustment that's necessary every 5 years or so.

In terms of the impact, I guess it depends on whether you want to view the glass as being half full or half empty. It seems pretty clear that the changes made were necessary (imbalances in weekdays/weekends, seasons, etc.) If DVC had made these changes 5 years ago and I was "hurt" by them, it could have cost me many more points from 2005-09. By waiting until 2010/11, at least I continued to pay cheaper rates for weekdays (or early-December trips, or BoardWalk view rooms) for several more years.

I cannot condemn DVCMC for making necessary adjustments to the program. When rooms are sitting empty on weekends while weekdays are booked to capacity, something has to change. When early-December dates are fully booked 11 months out and May can be obtained on short notice, something has to change.

It isn't DVC which is creating the trends and booking patterns--it's our fellow members.

 

[bobbiwoz]

We own DVC to vacation at WDW as a couple, and with family and friends. I want to continue to do that. I haven't liked all of the changes since we joined in 2003, but it's been a very positive experience for us. VB's beach cottages went up the max for our vacation time in the last reallocation. DH probably would buy more VB points if it came to that. I'm not so sure.

Our vacations often do include a weekend day or two, it's just a factor of the amount of vacation time DH has and the fact that we have always (for 40+ years of marriage) gone away for many weekends. It's what we like to do.

Bobbi

 

[Dean]

The reason I may sell are just not that emotional nor complicated. Basically I purchased a set amount of points (with more as a buffer than I exactly needed) to vacation in a bw view unit. These points per night have not changed in 16 yrs. For reasons we members will never know, Disney has chosen to reallocate two years in a row. Now once, ok. Twice, I'm not happy. If my resort gets affected enough to where I can no longer vacation as planned, I will sell. Period. Not rocket science here. For the dues I am paying, the parking changes that have created issues for owners , changing bw view points significantly will cause me to sell. And I'll sell it cheap. I won't loose any investment either between the trips I've taken and the points I've rented I'll get all my money back.

I'm confused, I am only aware of the reallocation for 2010 and some have speculated for 2011. Has anything been released that I wasn't aware of? No doubt that any significant change has the potential to affect how reasonable it is for a given person to own DVC. That is a personal choice but not one that should drive DVC's decisions. I think we DO know the reason for the 2010 change, simply to somewhat even out demand. My guess is you'll see no changes going forward for a couple of years and they'll look at 2011 & 2012 bookings and decide if another reallocation is needed. They were up against the 20% max change so it's possible you'll see a change but ONLY if certain items were so skewed in demand that they feel they must. Some here stated on the big thread on this subject last year that the change was not enough to affect behavior, if that's true, there may indeed be another change this year. If there is, expect certain times to change seasons like early Dec.

 

[lisareniff]

.... VB's beach cottages went up the max for our vacation time in the last reallocation. ...

I concerned about the VB point chart. They hit the max increase in reallocation for all villas for Sun-Thurs. I am concerned they have more reallocation they intend to do.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

Certainly it's not something they have to do. My view on any such issue is that anytime you have the opportunity to even out demand, that's a good thing. The big issue was to make it a booking category which they've done so that at least members have the opportunity to secure those options (along with standard view) over non members. Still, there's a fairly dramatic difference in demand between SV/BW view and the rest at BWV. I do understand though the idea of micro-management vs macro-management and that there comes a point of diminishing returns on such changes.

One area we seem to differ is on the relative demand of the non standard/non BW view rooms and I think the difference in demand is quite large and in my view that is a bad thing. That's one of the reasons I think the concierge offering at AKV was a very poor choice for DVC or else they should have sold it with exclusive rights to those buying and willing to pay more for that options.

I think you're making far too many assumptions on the reasons that BCV is more than BWV. I feel that such a reallocaiton is unlikely to make any difference in resale prices, or if anything, that it might enhance them somewhat. I don't know why most people bought but I think it is fair to say that many did buy with either the idea of standard view or BW view as a major factor. IMO I don't think a minor adjustment of increasing BW view would deter that group but I do feel that a minor downward adjustment to the pool/Garden view would actually enhance it's appeal to buyers as a whole. Another option would be to rework the entire thing making the SV group much larger in terms of segment of the resort say 70% standard and 30% "new preferred mostly BW view". I'm sure we'd get the "I bough X points to get BW view only" crowd but I think I've been pretty clear of my view that type of whining over the years.

I do not agree that changing the points as being discussed will alter BW view demand that much but my goal would actually be that it would. You state, if I'm reading correctly, that a shift making BW view higher would get some of those units to the 7 month window because they'd have less demand. That would actually be my goal, not that they be reserved by non members, but that the demand is such that ALL view types fill up at roughly the same time and thus if ANY units make it to 7 months, all view types likely would. I realize it will never be 100% but it should be a goal of the system as well.

Again, I see no devaluation in such a change, if anything, I see it as an enhancement, your view is obviously different. If you're suggesting there is an underlying sales agenda between this or other reallocations, I think we'll have to take up arms and stand opposed. Sales is DVD, management is DVCMC, they are different with different expectations and responsibilities legally and otherwise. I do not subscribe to the conspiracy theories in this regard, if I did, I'd sell out tomorrow.

Thank you for your response.

I do want to further clarify one point. I do not see an underlying sales agenda, or at least I don't want to state it that strongly. My thought is that Disney doesn't want any of the resorts to be less attractive or to have an imbalance. The new amenities at SSR come to mind.

We do disagree as you stated that I believe reallocating the boardwalk points would be a detraction. We love the boardwalk view and believe its a great bargain to us.

Beach Club Villas have some definite advantages over Boardwalk with lower dues, closer to Epcot, access to restaurants without going outside, counter service at the Marketplace.

The ability to reserve standard points for less, and boardwalk views for the same as a pool view or Beach Club room is a great perk for owning at Boardwalk.

I would not like having to purchase more points just so I could get the Boardwalk view, when that was a major deciding factor in purchasing Boardwalk in the first place.

I am enjoying this discussion.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I don't believe there have acutally been any reallocations for 2011 just yet. I did contact MS via email and asked when the point charts would be out since we are getting close to the time when we can book 2011 trips. I got a stock email today saying they would be printed soon. ...NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

 

[Dean]

Thank you for your response.

I do want to further clarify one point. I do not see an underlying sales agenda, or at least I don't want to state it that strongly. My thought is that Disney doesn't want any of the resorts to be less attractive or to have an imbalance. The new amenities at SSR come to mind.

We do disagree as you stated that I believe reallocating the boardwalk points would be a detraction. We love the boardwalk view and believe its a great bargain to us.

Beach Club Villas have some definite advantages over Boardwalk with lower dues, closer to Epcot, access to restaurants without going outside, counter service at the Marketplace.

The ability to reserve standard points for less, and boardwalk views for the same as a pool view or Beach Club room is a great perk for owning at Boardwalk.

I would not like having to purchase more points just so I could get the Boardwalk view, when that was a major deciding factor in purchasing Boardwalk in the first place.

I am enjoying this discussion.

Thanks. Let me clarify as well. I'm not sure we actually disagree that much on the impact of such a change. If BW view goes up slightly and preferred view goes down slightly it lessens the appeal of BW view as you indicate but not that much IMO. But what it does do is raise the interest in preferred view which is currently relatively low and is roughly 60% of the resort and maybe 65% of the total points for BWV. IMO this raises the interest and demand in the resort overall both for use and purchase. Regardless it likely won't happen simply due to the difficulty of rearranging the points but I'm sure they'd like to.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I concerned about the VB point chart. They hit the max increase in reallocation for all villas for Sun-Thurs. I am concerned they have more reallocation they intend to do.

This is why I sold my small VB contract. I love VB but the changes totally affected how I could use my contract. I do feel VB was unfairly targeted with the max reallocation as you stated. I feel for the owners if this were to happen again.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

Thanks. Let me clarify as well. I'm not sure we actually disagree that much on the impact of such a change. If BW view goes up slightly and preferred view goes down slightly it lessens the appeal of BW view as you indicate but not that much IMO. But what it does do is raise the interest in preferred view which is currently relatively low and is roughly 60% of the resort and maybe 65% of the total points for BWV. IMO this raises the interest and demand in the resort overall both for use and purchase. Regardless it likely won't happen simply due to the difficulty of rearranging the points but I'm sure they'd like to.

Perhaps, lowering point costs for preferred view would be beneficial. I think I would be more interested in the pool view if the pool slide exit (clown) were redesigned.

 

[Dean]

This is why I sold my small VB contract. I love VB but the changes totally affected how I could use my contract. I do feel VB was unfairly targeted with the max reallocation as you stated. I feel for the owners if this were to happen again.

I would look at it differently. Demand is really determined mostly by owners at a given resort, others only get the leftovers, esp at a smaller resort like VB. Thus if you want to lay blame, you'd have to do so at the feet of the other VB owners IMO. To say targeted implies it was purposeful as some type of punishment for some reason rather in response to the actual demand.

 

[Dean]

Perhaps, lowering point costs for preferred view would be beneficial. I think I would be more interested in the pool view if the pool slide exit (clown) were redesigned.

The clown slide has always been an issue for some but it does fit well into the theme of the resort. I'm sure there are changes they could make that would improve the slide and it's appearance though. It will be interesting to see what affect the reallocation, if any, will have on the relative demand of the 2 resorts. By that I mean that BCV is now slightly more expensive for comparable rooms as a result of the reallocation. I'm sure this was due to the balancing requirements rather than intent but it's there non the less.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I would look at it differently. Demand is really determined mostly by owners at a given resort, others only get the leftovers, esp at a smaller resort like VB. Thus if you want to lay blame, you'd have to do so at the feet of the other VB owners IMO. To say targeted implies it was purposeful as some type of punishment for some reason rather in response to the actual demand.

How did owner demand cause the reallocation if VB is readily available at 7 mos. or less, as you have previosly stated ?

 

[Dean]

How did owner demand cause the reallocation if VB is readily available at 7 mos. or less, as you have previosly stated ?

Demand at VB is seasonal, some times are available routinely and others are not. Still, it's the relative demand that's the issue, not the absolute demand. As an extreme example. Assume that 80% of weekend days made it to the 7 month window but only 20% of the weekdays made it to 7 months. The relative imbalance would be caused by members but there would still be availability and would need to be corrected in some way. A reallocation is the easiest, another would be to allow longer bookings earlier than shorter ones or to require a minimum stay that required at least one weekend night given the limitation of 5 nights as the longest min stay.

 

[lisareniff]

VB was just a reallocation waiting to happen. The weekends were more then twice as much and so many of us were taking advantage of the low weekday rates. We were lovin' the 300pt Sun-Fri Beach Cottage. ....but I think they were sitting empty on the weekends.

 

[Malaguti Ball Clan]

I sent a "heated" email to MS...(sorry CM Roxanne if it was overly rude, but I got the answer) and the response I received is----


We are anticipating publishing the 2011 Disney Vacation Club Point
Charts on the Member website this coming Wednesday, January 20th. Dates are subject to change without notice.

Sincerely,

Roxanne
Member Services
Disney Vacation Club

 

[Good Ol Gal]

We are anticipating publishing the 2011 Disney Vacation Club Point
Charts on the Member website this coming Wednesday, January 20th. Dates are subject to change without notice.

and change, and change, and change......

 

[TLPL]

It is frustrating they have to wait till the last minute to publish the new charts. It is just bad service. I am pretty sure they are changing the charts again and don't to hear us complain so they wait till the very last moment.