DVC Karen: Don’t Be This Person

[Maistre Gracey]

This goes beyond the CM. If there is someone walking around that uses physical force when he can’t get the dinner table he wants, every guest in his area is at risk. He triggers quickly. Wouldn’t take much to set him off.

Disney did a disservice to every guest by not banning.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Disney may refund his DVC purchase less usage, close his account and ban him from the parks. There is probably something in the member agreement about this.

You say this as if it was fact and then in the same breath say that it is probably in the member agreement somewhere. That's not the same thing.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

The problem with society today is the very bandwagon jumping going on in this very thread. Wow. Again, I am NOT defending or condoning this JA's apparent behavior, but not one single soul here saw one single thing outside a story written by a third party that wasn't there either. And a third party that writes to an OBVIOUS 'Disney bias.'

What's amazing is watching lemmings walk off a ledge.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

The problem with society today is the very bandwagon jumping going on in this very thread. Wow. Again, I am NOT defending or condoning this JA's apparent behavior, but not one single soul here saw one single thing outside a story written by a third party that wasn't there either. And a third party that writes to an OBVIOUS 'Disney bias.'

What's amazing is watching lemmings walk off a ledge.

While I would often agree with your premise, the article, if I’m understanding correctly, was quoting/paraphrasing the Sheriff’s office report.

Admittedly, that gave the story more credibility for me.

 

[AstroBlasters]

The problem with society today is the very bandwagon jumping going on in this very thread. Wow. Again, I am NOT defending or condoning this JA's apparent behavior, but not one single soul here saw one single thing outside a story written by a third party that wasn't there either. And a third party that writes to an OBVIOUS 'Disney bias.'

What's amazing is watching lemmings walk off a ledge.

From the article: A sheriffs report and a confirmed eye witness. Also, WDW News Today takes its reporting very seriously.

“But the sheriff’s report does say how Acosta responded when he didn’t get his way.

“Thank you for your hospitality,” Acosta said and then forcibly pushed a Cast Member in the chest with two hands, the report said.

Another witness confirmed what happened too. She told law enforcement she saw the attack and saw Acosta push the employee in the chest with two hands. “Thank you for your service. We won’t be back,” Acosta said, according to the witness.”

 

[WilsonFlyer]

From the article: A sheriffs report and a confirmed eye witness. Also, WDW News Today takes its reporting very seriously.

“But the sheriff’s report does say how Acosta responded when he didn’t get his way.

“Thank you for your hospitality,” Acosta said and then forcibly pushed a Cast Member in the chest with two hands, the report said.

Another witness confirmed what happened too. She told law enforcement she saw the attack and saw Acosta push the employee in the chest with two hands. “Thank you for your service. We won’t be back,” Acosta said, according to the witness.”

I have the utmost respect for Tom's reporting. Probably as much as anybody out there. But I also recognize that Tom writes for 'clicks.' Everybody that writes professionally for Disney 3rd party does.

I wasn't there. We weren't there. I don't know what happened. Neither were the deputies that took the report. That is why we sometimes have video, eye-witnesses, and courts of law. Just because we don't like it doesn't mean it rose to the level of assault and battery as is being assumed all over this thread. That's all I'm saying.

Should he have? Of course not. Do we know the entire story that caused him to rise to that level of agitation, whatever level that actually was? Again, no. That's all I'm saying.

 

[bakerworld]

Behavior, Not DVC related: My BIL, while never touching anyone, always gets loud when something doesn't go his way. He seems to fully believe that he'll get what he wants if he comes off aggressive. We don't get it and don't participate when we're with him and he, along with his wife, has called us on our lack of support. DH said straight out that we didn't want to be associated with that kind of behavior. BIL fully believes in the 'squeaky wheel' concept.

 

[drusba]

Cannot tell from the article much of anything except that someone who apparently (not clearly established) owns DVC was the alleged perpetrator. We do not know how hard the push actually was, apparently no real injury occurred, but someone appears to have contacted the police, possibly more out of concern the situation would get worse.

What happened, if it actually occurred, is improper conduct but legally the potential crime, if one was actually commited, was not trespass, even if the perpetrator was not a DVC member, because the restaurant is open for entry to the public, i.e., there is no evidence of improper entry. Possibly it was assault (conduct threatening bodily harm) and battery (the actual hitting of the body) . That the employee and those in charge of the restaurant did not want to proceed with charging an actual crime is a choice often made in similar situations when the situation is resolved by the perpetrator calming down and leaving and no real injury has occurred.

Disney, if it believes the situation indicates further action is needed, might possibly ban the perpetrator from the restaurant, or possibly even from Disney World, for some period of time, but from the viewpoint of just DVC, there is actually nothing it can do, What happened is not something actually covered by any of the terms of the POS and DVC contracts and it did not even occur in a DVC building, and the perpetrator could not be forced to relinquish his DVC ownership.

 

[DLgal]

I have the utmost respect for Tom's reporting. Probably as much as anybody out there. But I also recognize that Tom writes for 'clicks.' Everybody that writes professionally for Disney 3rd party does.

I wasn't there. We weren't there. I don't know what happened. Neither were the deputies that took the report. That is why we sometimes have video, eye-witnesses, and courts of law. Just because we don't like it doesn't mean it rose to the level of assault and battery as is being assumed all over this thread. That's all I'm saying.

Should he have? Of course not. Do we know the entire story that caused him to rise to that level of agitation, whatever level that actually was? Again, no. That's all I'm saying.

You put your hands on someone in a threatening way, it's assault. There is no nuance to it.

We all know cast members are VERY often forced to take this type of treatment by guests and coerced into not pressing charges. This is a common situation at WDW, unfortunately. I have heard of Cast Members being slapped in the face, punched, spit on, etc. They never file charges. They are very much disincentivized from doing so.

That doesn't make it okay. Disney has a responsibility to protect their cast members. It's sad that they don't.

If I was the CM, I would absolutely press charges, and then if Disney took any retaliatory action against me, I'd sue them.

Being a DVC member should not impart some sort of immunity from engaging in violent behavior towards anyone while on property.

I wasn't there, nor were any of us, but let's not pretend that this story is SO outrageous that if could not have possibly happened as written.

 

[RoseGold]

Disney did a disservice to every guest by not banning.

Really interesting concept that he can't be banned because he is a DVC BC owner. But I don't see why they can't be banned from the parks. That seems like it would do the trick. Refund his park tickets and ban him from the parks.

And I don't think he could be banned from just part of BC or whatever, that's just not how trespass orders work. It would be the whole property. I think it's right that he can't be banned from his own property. But the parks have nothing to do with DVC...

 

[RoseGold]

At minimum, IMHO should have been fined, w/a 1 YR property suspension, and docked a year's worth of points. Definitely, NOT a fan of "diplomatic immunity" status at home resorts.

There's nothing like this in any of your DVC agreements, and I'm glad. DVC doesn't have a "court" to decide things. It can't just take your points away because you were accused of something. There is an actual process to handle this. It's the actual legal system, and park bans, where Disney does whatever it wants.

 

[Kae]

Crazy........he had to be drunk.........unbelievable....

Why? sober people don't do that?

 

[Sandisw]

They can ban him from Disney property. As a DVC member you are not guaranteed a stay. They are not taking his points away. He can still rent or sell them.

I have not had a chance to read through the POS, but IIRC, it does deal with things like this, but when you are at your home resort and bad behavior exists.

The key is that is different than Disney owned places, like parks, the restaurant and Disney owned hotels,

So, what they can do legally for this guest for booking and staying at BCV, his home resort, and other spots, is most likely different and why they have to look into it.

I don’t believe they can tell him he has to pay dues and just rent the points.

 

[bwang123]

Crazy........he had to be drunk.........unbelievable....

You know there are sober jerks, right? If they were drunk, they probably would have at least received a public intoxication charge. But, we are both guessing since being drunk isn't in the report.

 

[YourEveryDayAdam]

I want to state up front: I'm not defending this guy. What he did was terrible, regardless of how hard he touched the cast member, where he touched them, and regardless of the cast-member's gender. IMO, touching someone (especially in an aggressive manner), without their consent is a HUGE no-no. It violates one of the basic human rights: freedom of security of the person.

After skimming the Multi-site POS, BCV POS, and the Home Resort Rules and Regulations, I don't see anything that could keep the member from using his membership. The ONLY thing I could find where someone would be unable to book and/or check-in for a reservation is if a member doesn't pay their annual dues.

Disney COULD trespass him from the parks, Disney Springs, and the elements of the Beach Club Resort run solely for Disney's benefit (restaurants, quick service, etc.)

I don't even think they could trespass the member from the other DVC resorts, as his membership is a part of the multi-site POS which pretty much says he can use the BCV points freely at all of the resorts that participate in the multi-site DVC program. This does include the shared "common elements" such as the pool, lobbies, etc.

I could see DVC refusing to serve the member at on-site restaurants as those are privately run establishments...and trespassing them from the parks, Disney Springs, and even the quick service places at the resorts REALLY diminishes the value of DVC to the person who owns it.

 

[AnnaS]

You know there are sober jerks, right? If they were drunk, they probably would have at least received a public intoxication charge. But, we are both guessing since being drunk isn't in the report.

Why? sober people don't do that?

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[J-Dog]

I have the utmost respect for Tom's reporting. Probably as much as anybody out there. But I also recognize that Tom writes for 'clicks.' Everybody that writes professionally for Disney 3rd party does.

I wasn't there. We weren't there. I don't know what happened. Neither were the deputies that took the report. That is why we sometimes have video, eye-witnesses, and courts of law. Just because we don't like it doesn't mean it rose to the level of assault and battery as is being assumed all over this thread. That's all I'm saying.

Should he have? Of course not. Do we know the entire story that caused him to rise to that level of agitation, whatever level that actually was? Again, no. That's all I'm saying.

I agree completely. Especially in this age of social media, the court of public opinion can be a double-edged sword.

 

[SL6827]

This is very interesting how far this or other potential incidents can go.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I agree completely. Especially in this age of social media, the court of public opinion can be a double-edged sword.

Witness no more than your very own last thread and the very innocence you had and intended when you posted it.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

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