DVC Commercial Use Policy added to POS

[JimMIA]

So they would never intentionally leave a room at DVC open to walk a guest

No -- but they would, and have, walked DVC members with confirmed reservations in order to accommodate a cash customer. But that's another thread.

 

[cobbler]

You have to understand this from the Hotel Industry standpoint. They overbook in order to have max occupancy, expecting certain people not to show up or cancel on short notice. Then they "walk" to another place that has available inventory. So they would never intentionally leave a room at DVC open to walk a guest, but rather they would merely take advantage of the open room. Now, they should compensate DVC for this room, obviously not full price, but it would still generate revenue.

Oh, don't get me wrong I totally understand that. What I am saying is that there is argument that DVC gives the rooms to CRO who then has to discount them and that hurts are breakrage and such. Well a discounted room through CRO at $150 for a studio is far better than giving a one bedroom villa upgrade to a value resort guest who only paid $84 a night. THAT doesn't seem beneficial (and of course a whole other argument).

 

[DBorges]

AAhhh Comrade, how I long for the old days of communism. The old guard sure isn't what it use to be. Sure wish you would put this much effort in critizing Disney for making money off these timeshares as you do daddio. Now that would be something worth fighting for....

Y-ASK

On a side note, any one who rents points is making money. This is still a free democratic state, right?

I believe it is .

I also think thata are intentions for what we bought and it was not to make a profit .

It was a vacation club interest not a for profit interest..

Furthermore We have certain people from other counrties other then the usa gain money as a result.

Keep the money here in the USA and use the dvc for its intended purpose.

Just my point of view I really do not care about the common member renting points he will not use I do however care about the point hording for profit selling company or so called internet company.

GO NEW ENGLAND PATROITS

 

[AKV707]

There is also the matter of copyright laws. Most of the 'vacations' I've seen listed for sale or bid are using DVC pictures. Disney, does protect there copyrights. Ask any HS, who wants to do a Disney production.

OT: I have directed Aida and Beauty & The Beast at a high school. I have directed dozens of shows. We always properly license them. But you should see the Disney contract riders! You are right, they protect everything. But the shows were huge successes, so I can't complain.

 

[Dean]

I'm sure it is NOT in the POS, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it in explanations from DVC about what constitutes "commercial renting." The verbiage I remember is something like ...maintaining a website for the purpose of DVC rentals, or a pattern of activity determined to be for commercial purpose. I'm pulling that off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure that is the explanation I remember prior to this change in the POS. It may have been from the Nasty Gram letters last year.

I've seen lots of people here say it but never a "DVC said" or anything of the like. I personally have said that they could go after copyright issues and the like and that would be the way to handle any concerning website info. Having a website can't be a criteria given the ease of that option in 2008. What it could do would be to alert them to pay closer attention.

Oh no, they haven't. They have defined ONE of the characteristics they will look at to attempt to determine whether or not an account is being used for "commercial purposes." Nowhere in their explanation does it say "20+ ressies IS commercial renting."

DVC hasn't defined anything -- nor have they attempted to do so.

While they have left themselves some wiggle room, they have very specifically defined what is commercial renting.

Note, no mention of profit at all in this scenario.

 

[disney54us]

Why of course it was to be taken with tongue-in-cheek .

But no, I'm not a Disney "hater". Quite far from it! Not sure how you could read into that but then the written word has not always been my strong suit..

I am both! I rent for profit and then spend that profit on DVC maint. fees in order NOT to have to use my vacation money on those fees.


The written words I read were, you couldn't understand why people had a problem w/dadio (whoever) making money and not Disney making money? That's how I read into you post, if I didn't understand correctly, then sorry.
You may have point if that's how you are able to afford your vacation. Not here to judge, could have used the money through the years myself at times. I guess I just figured other people did as we did,. Made a decision, to invest in a lifetime of vacations for our family, and pay for it. Work overtime if need be or don't buy it if we can't swing it. As I said I now learned a whole new ball game on how to handle those fees or when we need extra $$$. Just didn't go into it trying to work the system, but hey it seems to work for everyone else I might try it.

Oh no, they haven't. They have defined ONE of the characteristics they will look at to attempt to determine whether or not an account is being used for "commercial purposes." Nowhere in their explanation does it say "20+ ressies IS commercial renting."

DVC hasn't defined anything -- nor have they attempted to do so.

Ahhhh...the pain of irony and wit!

Rinkwide, Rinkwide -- wherefore art thou, Rinkwide?

Thank you.

You have to understand this from the Hotel Industry standpoint. They overbook in order to have max occupancy, expecting certain people not to show up or cancel on short notice. Then they "walk" to another place that has available inventory. So they would never intentionally leave a room at DVC open to walk a guest, but rather they would merely take advantage of the open room. Now, they should compensate DVC for this room, obviously not full price, but it would still generate revenue.

Someone who understands the hotel industry, thank you.

No -- but they would, and have, walked DVC members with confirmed reservations in order to accommodate a cash customer. But that's another thread.

Yes they have according to other threads, which is unacceptable. If they have openings (and only if) it could be to there advantage. It happened to my GF when she was on a family vacation. She was upgraded to BW and loved it so much decided on buying DVC.

I believe it is .

I also think thata are intentions for what we bought and it was not to make a profit .

It was a vacation club interest not a for profit interest..

Furthermore We have certain people from other counrties other then the usa gain money as a result.

Keep the money here in the USA and use the dvc for its intended purpose.

Just my point of view I really do not care about the common member renting points he will not use I do however care about the point hording for profit selling company or so called internet company.

GO NEW ENGLAND PATROITS

Thank you, could not have said it better!!

OT: I have directed Aida and Beauty & The Beast at a high school. I have directed dozens of shows. We always properly license them. But you should see the Disney contract riders! You are right, they protect everything. But the shows were huge successes, so I can't complain.

That's what I was talking about! Glad to hear they were a success, and good for you and your school willing to go through that. Many schools just give up b/c they don't want to spend the time on all the paper work it takes. From what your saying, they may want to reconsider.

 

[rinkwide]

From the '08-'09 Vacation Planner:

Renting Vacation Points Restriction
Use of Vacation Homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes or any purpose other than described in the Declaration is expressly prohibited. Commercial purpose includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by an Owner that the Board (of the Condominium Association), in it's reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.

Example: A Member who maintains a web site offering rental of points is clearly renting for commercial purposes; a Member who makes 20 reservations per Use Year in the name of other persons is most likely renting for commercial purposes. These members are considered to be "commercially active." A person who makes one or two reservations within a Use Year in the name of other persons most likely is not renting for commercial purpose.​

 

[sjdisneywedding]

If he make a block of reservations on the same call to the same resort using who evers point and books up four weeks out of inventory then yes he is making it harder for the honest members too get one.

If you have only 150 points but he has a pool yes a pool of 2500 points what are your chanced then ZIP ZERO ZLICH

if the playing feild is even so somewhat ever yes it work but if he is stacked it meakes it hard for us honest members

your making mountains out of mole hills. you actually have the exact same chance to book your room no matter how many ponts you have. you can have a contract for 25 or 1000 it doesnt matter, you cant call any earlier or book any differently.

I dont like the concept of commercial renting but really it doesnt matter if one person is making all 100 ressies for others or if each of those 100 members are making their own ressie--it still takes up the same amount of points and the same amount of rooms--on average

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I am one, who has brought this issue up recently, when I couldn't get ressie for 5 days anytime the first 2 weeks of December, oh but I could have if I went on ebay and purchased it. Before the preaching starts about that I should have booked day by day in my eleven month window. My point exactly, I have been a member for 10 years and never had to do that. So case in point commercial renters do indeed take away from members who would actually like to use there membership for the intended purpose they bought it for. As for this Daddio, never heard of him, I see he posted when I signed in to post. A very good question was asked prior about being licencsed? How about in Canada where he's from, is all this being declared income??
:

theres also probably 75% more members than there were 10 years ago.

 

[TisBit]

No -- but they would, and have, walked DVC members with confirmed reservations in order to accommodate a cash customer. But that's another thread.

Sure is!

 

[DBorges]

your making mountains out of mole hills. you actually have the exact same chance to book your room no matter how many ponts you have. you can have a contract for 25 or 1000 it doesnt matter, you cant call any earlier or book any differently.

I dont like the concept of commercial renting but really it doesnt matter if one person is making all 100 ressies for others or if each of those 100 members are making their own ressie--it still takes up the same amount of points and the same amount of rooms--on average

If this someone whom has say a bank of 2500 points from diffrent users to sell for a profit . He will make one call say he has 12 people want AKV Club level for a week on the same time frame poof they are all gone in that one phone call . That is not fair or equal treatment.

100 ressie would be 100 calls not one like this person is doing.

Bottom line is disney is making it harder for him to do what he does and I am glad.

DVC is for use by the member for a vaction not for a profit.

If it was for a profit they would sell it like this want to make a heap of cash and get disney on the cheap buy dvc

 

[sjdisneywedding]

If this someone whom has say a bank of 2500 points from diffrent users to sell for a profit . He will make one call say he has 12 people want AKV Club level for a week on the same time frame poof they are all gone in that one phone call . That is not fair or equal treatment.

100 ressie would be 100 calls not one like this person is doing.

Bottom line is disney is making it harder for him to do what he does and I am glad.

DVC is for use by the member for a vaction not for a profit.

If it was for a profit they would sell it like this want to make a heap of cash and get disney on the cheap buy dvc

lol, I still think you are wayyyy over simplifying it, but thats your opinion
to me it still doesnt matter if 1 person is calling for 12 or 12 separate people are calling

actually if 12 separate people are calling the rooms may even be...poof...gone faster than if 1 person is calling trying to keep everything straight

in any event I hope the intended outcome is achieved as well

 

[LIFERBABE]

Thank you Robin for understanding my concerns.

I deal with MS alot, and there are those that are helpful and then there are those you just hang up on and call back. I dont want my reservations jammed up because of a "misinterpretation" of the policy especially not when I am calling at critical times to book our reservations.

I own as many points as I do, because we travel at high peak times and we stay in larger units. I take anyone that wants to go. Life is too short.

I pay dearly for this luxury and we make many sacrifices throughout the year to be able to afford it.

I am not going to jump through hoops for something that is costing me so much each year, especially if I am doing nothing wrong.

Have I offened anyone here cause i just nailed with a infraction for no reason ??

I think it was well deserved

 

[Doctor P]

your making mountains out of mole hills. you actually have the exact same chance to book your room no matter how many ponts you have. you can have a contract for 25 or 1000 it doesnt matter, you cant call any earlier or book any differently.

I dont like the concept of commercial renting but really it doesnt matter if one person is making all 100 ressies for others or if each of those 100 members are making their own ressie--it still takes up the same amount of points and the same amount of rooms--on average

With due respect, I think you are extremely naive in terms of the techniques that profit-making organizations can use to assure that they get what they want in terms of phone reservations. I have been told by EXTREMELY reliable sources that when White Sox World Series tickets went on sale to the public two plus years ago, one ticket broker was able to acquire more than 85% of the available seats (think several thousand tickets) through the use of technology to make sure that few calls but their's could get through. They were also able to jam the website. A commercial renter, if desired, can corner a significant portion of the market the way the system works currently. I have no doubt that some are playing this game. One way to handle this part of the problem, though it would be a pain and harmful to some members at some times, is to limit you to one reservation per phone call.

 

[Y-ASK]

Just my point of view I really do not care about the common member renting points he will not use I do however care about the point hording for profit selling company or so called internet company.

We are in agreement here . Although I am trying to not be a hypocrite because I do rent points.

Y-ASK

 

[JimMIA]

From the '08-'09 Vacation Planner:

Renting Vacation Points Restriction
Use of Vacation Homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes or any purpose other than described in the Declaration is expressly prohibited. Commercial purpose includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by an Owner that the Board (of the Condominium Association), in it's reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.

Example: A Member who maintains a web site offering rental of points is clearly renting for commercial purposes; a Member who makes 20 reservations per Use Year in the name of other persons is most likely renting for commercial purposes. These members are considered to be "commercially active." A person who makes one or two reservations within a Use Year in the name of other persons most likely is not renting for commercial purpose.​

Thank you, sir.

It's reassuring to know that I'm not hallucinating. At least not on this one question.

 

[tomandrobin]

Here is what I think........

 

[robinb]

Nevermind ... I'm stepping back from the keyboard now .

 

[DBorges]

We are in agreement here . Although I am trying to not be a hypocrite because I do rent points.

Y-ASK

Do you ever use your own points for personal use?

As for renting I have not a problem with a member renting it is when someone who rents bulk points that he get by posting a web site and getting himself listed on other accounts that is almost like unlimited points in a 11 month booking window. It is the name link there


This is what I have a problem with not the member that has 500 points and rents what he or she doesn't use.

I think that makes sence selling something you can not or will not use heck Money is money.

But renting in the fashion that (he who will remain un-named ) is just wrong!

 

[JimMIA]

From the '08-'09 Vacation Planner:

Renting Vacation Points Restriction
... a Member who makes 20 reservations per Use Year in the name of other persons is most likely renting for commercial purposes. These members are considered to be "commercially active." A person who makes one or two reservations within a Use Year in the name of other persons most likely is not renting for commercial purpose.[/INDENT]

Before someone goes flying off on a wild tangent, we should note there is a subtle difference between what's in the Vacation Planner rinkwide quoted, and the POS Mike quoted.

The Vacation Planner is referring to 20 reservations "...in the name of other persons," and in that scenario, there is a presumption that the member is a commercial renter.

The POS wording is for 20 reservations in a year timeframe, period. In the POS, it doesn't matter whose name in on the ressies. There is no presumption of commercial renting in the POS language -- just putting us on notice that they will look at situations like that.