DVC Commercial Use Policy added to POS

[JimMIA]

That's not true. Associate does not = Owner. There are numerous distinctions between the two.

Tim is right, as usual. Here's some info from the Member site:

An "Associate" is a person named by the Purchaser or Purchasers who is only authorized to make reservations using the Club Member's Home Resort Vacation Points. Associates do not receive Member Cards and are not entitled to the benefits and privileges that are available to a Club Member. In addition, Associates may not access financial information related to the Annual Dues and/or loan pertaining to the Club Member's Ownership Interest.

I could be wrong, but I don't even think an associate can bank points.

 

[DBorges]

And you're saying that he told you that he books multiple speculative reservations -- reservations he has no customer for right now, but hopes to rent later?

He stated that he make reservations sometimes when he has no buyers in the hope of a quick sale.
and to get more points in his so called point pool

 

[DVC Mike]

There is often a tendency, when we talk about renting, to equate all renting with speculative bookings. That's just nonsensical. I'm sure the vast majority of rentals are actually not speculative -- they are a real owner, with a real customer, booking real dates, for a real vacation.

It's also important to realize that our interests are not the same as Disney's with regard to renting.

I think most of us would like to keep the door open to renting, whether we rent or not. I don't rent our points, but I wouldn't want to lose that right. What most of us do want is a level playing field, not the system being abused by speculation.

Keep in mind, though, that Disney objects to any rentals because they are competition for them. They can't prohibit rentals, so the next best thing they can do is forbid "commercial renting." To Disney, it makes no difference whether "commercial renting" is speculative or legitimate -- it's competition, and they'd like to stop it if they can.

The only interest DVC has in stopping speculative rentals is to stop the complaints from owners who can't get ressies in prime time. But their primary interest is stopping as much renting as they can.

Good points!

 

[DBorges]

Originally Posted by JimMIA
There is often a tendency, when we talk about renting, to equate all renting with speculative bookings. That's just nonsensical. I'm sure the vast majority of rentals are actually not speculative -- they are a real owner, with a real customer, booking real dates, for a real vacation.

It's also important to realize that our interests are not the same as Disney's with regard to renting.

I think most of us would like to keep the door open to renting, whether we rent or not. I don't rent our points, but I wouldn't want to lose that right. What most of us do want is a level playing field, not the system being abused by speculation.

Keep in mind, though, that Disney objects to any rentals because they are competition for them. They can't prohibit rentals, so the next best thing they can do is forbid "commercial renting." To Disney, it makes no difference whether "commercial renting" is speculative or legitimate -- it's competition, and they'd like to stop it if they can.

The only interest DVC has in stopping speculative rentals is to stop the complaints from owners who can't get ressies in prime time. But their primary interest is stopping as much renting as they can.


Yep I agree 100% there no we can close this thread lol

Sorry Mike!!!! Jim left me type -less

Have I offened anyone here cause i just nailed with a infraction for no reason ??


GO NE PATROITS

 

[Daddio]

He stated that he make reservations sometimes when he has no buyers in the hope of a quick sale.
and to get more points in his so called point pool

Please retract this statement as you know it is not true. I understand that you are try to garner support for your statements, but you were not told anything of the sort by me.


David

 

[Dean]

With regard to Daddio's service, I think there is another criteria for commercial renter that we sometimes forget. DVC also says if a person maintains a website for the purpose of renting DVC reservations, they are clearly a commercial renter.

I have seen nothing no heard anything directly from DVC saying that having a website constitutes being a commercial renter, anyone with a computer can throw up a website, I've done it myself and am fairly HTML illiterate.

 

[DVC Mike]

I have seen nothing no heard anything directly from DVC saying that having a website constitutes being a commercial renter, anyone with a computer can throw up a website, I've done it myself and am fairly HTML illiterate.

I just reviewed the POS to see what it had to say about renting, and I agree -- I don't see any such statement.

 

[DBorges]

Please retract this statement as you know it is not true. I understand that you are try to garner support for your statements, but you were not told anything of the sort by me.


David

Please for the sake of this thread admit that you make money off other ignornace..

And that what what your doing could be said to be not so kosher>>

 

[disney54us]

I have never rented my points, and I may do so one day. After all this, hey I just might go on the rent/trade board now. There is a big difference between someone who sometimes has points they may not use and puts them on the rent and trade boards and someone who purchased a DVC membership for the sole purpose of making money. What I haven't figured out after reading this thread, is the devoted DVC members who are all over the DVC boards loving or complaining about DVC, that seem to take this as a bad thing. Since, I thought after all the reading I've been doing on the boards were from members who actually bought DVC to enjoy vacations with friends and family. Forget fancy software, the CM's in MS know the people who call every year within there 11 month window and start booking off blocks of rooms, and know that they will see it listed on ebay, or other sites. The members who are blessed enough to do several trips and share with friends and families, I don't see the problem, you will still be able to do so. It doesn't take the FBI to know what is legit and what isn't. Rule of thumb, there are patterns, so DVC is aware of which members are not using there membership for commercial purposes.
In the past few years there has been several changes that DVC has made that I have not agreed with, but to say the only reason they did this is about there bottom dollar?? I don't think so, maybe it is that they are and have been aware of this problem and have received complaints from members about this. I am one, who has brought this issue up recently, when I couldn't get ressie for 5 days anytime the first 2 weeks of December, oh but I could have if I went on ebay and purchased it. Before the preaching starts about that I should have booked day by day in my eleven month window. My point exactly, I have been a member for 10 years and never had to do that. So case in point commercial renters do indeed take away from members who would actually like to use there membership for the intended purpose they bought it for. As for this Daddio, never heard of him, I see he posted when I signed in to post. A very good question was asked prior about being licencsed? How about in Canada where he's from, is all this being declared income??
10 years ago the wording may have been different, but it was quite clear to me. In purchasing DVC, I was not purchasing to use for profit but to use for myself and family and friends. it seems they are just getting a little more specific, so they don't have to hear 'Oh I didn't know, I didn't realize'
Let the games begin

 

[JimMIA]

I have seen nothing no heard anything directly from DVC saying that having a website constitutes being a commercial renter, anyone with a computer can throw up a website, I've done it myself and am fairly HTML illiterate.

I'm sure it is NOT in the POS, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it in explanations from DVC about what constitutes "commercial renting." The verbiage I remember is something like ...maintaining a website for the purpose of DVC rentals, or a pattern of activity determined to be for commercial purpose. I'm pulling that off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure that is the explanation I remember prior to this change in the POS. It may have been from the Nasty Gram letters last year.

 

[Y-ASK]

Please for the sake of this thread admit that you make money off other ignornace..

And that what what your doing could be said to be not so kosher>>

AAhhh Comrade, how I long for the old days of communism. The old guard sure isn't what it use to be. Sure wish you would put this much effort in critizing Disney for making money off these timeshares as you do daddio. Now that would be something worth fighting for....

Y-ASK

On a side note, any one who rents points is making money. This is still a free democratic state, right?

 

[disney54us]

I'm sure it is NOT in the POS, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it in explanations from DVC about what constitutes "commercial renting." The verbiage I remember is something like ...maintaining a website for the purpose of DVC rentals, or a pattern of activity determined to be for commercial purpose. I'm pulling that off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure that is the explanation I remember prior to this change in the POS. It may have been from the Nasty Gram letters last year.

There is also the matter of copyright laws. Most of the 'vacations' I've seen listed for sale or bid are using DVC pictures. Disney, does protect there copyrights. Ask any HS, who wants to do a Disney production.

 

[Y-ASK]

I'm sure it is NOT in the POS, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it in explanations from DVC about what constitutes "commercial renting." The verbiage I remember is something like ...maintaining a website for the purpose of DVC rentals, or a pattern of activity determined to be for commercial purpose. I'm pulling that off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure that is the explanation I remember prior to this change in the POS. It may have been from the Nasty Gram letters last year.

Yeah but that is what makes the change in the POS so important! DVC has defined what they consider a commercial renter to be very clearly. So any one who wants to throw in "owning a website that rents DVC points" or "purchasing points only to rent", etc. would only be voicing their opinion on what they think is commercial renting and not what IS actually commercial renting according to DVC. So I think it's time to back off (not you Jim ) and let DVC determine what constitues commercial renting.

Y-ASK

 

[disney54us]

AAhhh Comrade, how I long for the old days of communism. The old guard sure isn't what it use to be. Sure wish you would put this much effort in critizing Disney for making money off these timeshares as you do daddio. Now that would be something worth fighting for....

Y-ASK

On a side note, any one who rents points is making money. This is still a free democratic state, right?

Sarcastic much?? Yes this country is, shouldn't the rest of the world be so lucky!
Hint it is quite obvious that when they sell us the timeshare, they will make money and the buyer gets the timeshare. See American values we all win!
I think it is also called business, free enterprise, yes Disney is here to make money that's what most businesses do. Question are you a DVC owner and I mean one who is a owner user? Or just someone who makes money off of owners who rent?? Or just a Disney
Hater , sure seems it from your post.

 

[Y-ASK]

Sarcastic much??

Why of course it was to be taken with tongue-in-cheek .

But no, I'm not a Disney "hater". Quite far from it! Not sure how you could read into that but then the written word has not always been my strong suit..

Question are you a DVC owner and I mean one who is a owner user? Or just someone who makes money off of owners who rent??

I am both! I rent for profit and then spend that profit on DVC maint. fees in order NOT to have to use my vacation money on those fees.

Y-ASK

 

[JimMIA]

Yeah but that is what makes the change in the POS so important! DVC has defined what they consider a commercial renter to be very clearly.

Oh no, they haven't. They have defined ONE of the characteristics they will look at to attempt to determine whether or not an account is being used for "commercial purposes." Nowhere in their explanation does it say "20+ ressies IS commercial renting."

DVC hasn't defined anything -- nor have they attempted to do so.

 

[JimMIA]

Sarcastic much??

Why of course it was to be taken with tongue-in-cheek

Ahhhh...the pain of irony and wit!

Rinkwide, Rinkwide -- wherefore art thou, Rinkwide?

 

[cobbler]

FWIW, I think it is in the best interests of the membership as a whole to have CRO/WDWTC be able to rent out rooms at rack rate. If they have to discount (because the general public would rather pay less by renting points), then that's a detriment to the membership.

Most rooms that go to CRO/WDWTC from the sold out resorts get there because members use points for a cruise or certain other non-DVC options. If CRO has to discount the rooms that pay for the non-DVC options, it stands to reason that the points to do those things will be higher than they otherwise would need to be.

Also, any unreserved member inventory goes to CRO/WDWTC at the 60 day mark. If CRO/WDWTC has to discount those rooms, then there is less money returned to the members - money for those rooms (called breakage) is used to reduce our annual dues. This is a biggie for me.

I'm positive that Disney/Developer wants to sell rooms in the developer's inventory at rack as much as possible, too. But that's certainly OK with me because I think it is in the members' best interest for rooms at the DVC resorts to go for rack. A win-win if you will.

First off let me preface that I totally agree with you.

However in my mind, if CRO was so concerned about this then they would stop giving away 1bdrm villas as value resort upgrades. Yes I know, totally different inventory but still, that is far worse as a having to discount standpoint.

 

[TisBit]

First off let me preface that I totally agree with you.

However in my mind, if CRO was so concerned about this then they would stop giving away 1bdrm villas as value resort upgrades. Yes I know, totally different inventory but still, that is far worse as a having to discount standpoint.

You have to understand this from the Hotel Industry standpoint. They overbook in order to have max occupancy, expecting certain people not to show up or cancel on short notice. Then they "walk" to another place that has available inventory. So they would never intentionally leave a room at DVC open to walk a guest, but rather they would merely take advantage of the open room. Now, they should compensate DVC for this room, obviously not full price, but it would still generate revenue.

 

[DVC Mike]

Oh no, they haven't. They have defined ONE of the characteristics they will look at to attempt to determine whether or not an account is being used for "commercial purposes." Nowhere in their explanation does it say "20+ ressies IS commercial renting."

DVC hasn't defined anything -- nor have they attempted to do so.

You're right, JimMIA. In fact, the new change to the POS says that:

This policy is not intended, and shall not be deemed, either (i) to constitute an exclusive act or statement by the Association regarding any breach of the commercial activity prohibitions set forth in the Declaration of Condominium and Membership Agreement, or (ii) to be an exhaustive list of all activities that shall be deemed to be commercial activity. Accordingly, the Association reserves the right to promulgate such additional rules or to take such additional actions or measures as it deems appropriate with respect to any breach of such prohibitions.