Does David's tell you if the renter cancels?

[Cyberc1978]

Just received an email from David's. They thanked me for cancelling and refunding, and told me that the renter will be getting 100% back.

Thats very nice of you, do you get all of your points back in a state so you are able to use them for the foreseeable future? or do they expire soon?

 

[Maddiesmum03]

This is the statement from David's which you can find on the home page of the website - @Marionnette I see nothing about them keeping their 4.50 fee. I actually think it is a very classy statement and I truly believe that David's (and all other reputable rental brokers) will try extremely hard to make sure that both renter and owner come out of this satisfied with the resolution. These are extraordinary times and businesses like David's cannot survive without their good reputation intact. I also believe there will continue to be a strong rental market going forward; albeit contract language will almost certainly change.

"A message to our guests and owners
We understand the severe impact that the COVID-19 virus is having.
Here is what we hope to accomplish over the next few days (maybe weeks).
If you are a guest, please wait for us to contact you. We will work with your owner to verify point status and then contact you with available options. This could be a rebooked reservation, points for a future reservation, or possibly a refund dependent on the owner’s current financial status. We may, in some circumstances, be able to re-rent points to allow for a refund situation. Each case will have its own set of variables. We promise to do everything we can to ease this unprecedented situation.
If you are an owner, please wait for us to contact you. We ask that you put your contract with the guest aside and work from your heart. Let your conscience be your guide. Depending on the status of your points, we will ask you to rebook the reservation, offer the points for a future reservation, offer a refund of the monies sent to you if you are financially able to, and let us re-rent your points. We do not intend to leave any owner "holding the bag."
Our commitment to you is as follows;

We will be in contact with each and every owner
&
We will be in contact with each and every guest
Due to this unprecedented situation, we are not equipped with the resources to do this in our usual timely fashion. It may take weeks to sift through all of the cancelled reservations. Yet, we remain committed to replying to each message we receive. We ask that you don’t send more than one email; every email sent takes resources away to sort through. Abusive language will not be tolerated.
Thank you for your support and your loyalty. We will keep you updated throughout this dynamic situation as events unfold."​

We do not intend to leave any owner "holding the bag." ......it sounds so good until they contacted me directly and said IF they re-rent the points they would LIKELY give me the 30% they should have paid out on Monday!

 

[CraigInPA]

9

Not true. The rental agreement is between the owner and renter. It's electronically signed by both. It requires payment to Dave's. The renter has nothing to do with your payment arrangement with the broker. What you are suggesting is extortion. Unless you pay more then you agreed to pay I'm going to break the terms of my contract with you and cancel your paid in full reservation.

I don't think owners should rent with any broker unless the balance of the rental fee is placed in an escrow account.

VRBO is at least refunding their fees. The agreement says non-refundable but it also states the exact terms of the reservation. The agreement is void if the renter doesn't have a resort to stay at.

Untrue. There are 2 rental agreements. One is between the broker and the owner. If the broker goes away, the owner has no agreement in place to provide a reservation. The other agreement is between the broker and the renter. If the broker goes away, the renter has no reservation. In this case, the owner, who has the name and contact information of the renter, may step up and attempt to enter into an agreement with the renter. This will be the first time the two have had an agreement, and is not "extortion".

I agree that the 30% should be held in a separate escrow account, but that would require the assignment of an escrow agent. I have not seen a broker who had a rental agreement that specified there was an escrow agent. Escrow agents are always separate from the broker's business.

 

[Lewisc]

Untrue. There are 2 rental agreements. One is between the broker and the owner. If the broker goes away, the owner has no agreement in place to provide a reservation. The other agreement is between the broker and the renter. If the broker goes away, the renter has no reservation. In this case, the owner, who has the name and contact information of the renter, may step up and attempt to enter into an agreement with the renter. This will be the first time the two have had an agreement, and is not "extortion".

I agree that the 30% should be held in a separate escrow account, but that would require the assignment of an escrow agent. I have not seen a broker who had a rental agreement that specified there was an escrow agent. Escrow agents are always separate from the broker's business.

Rental agreements may vary by broker. Dave's rental agreement may have changed. From the sample agreement currently posted on their website:

Please find below your invoice including rental agreement. Your payment in full is your acceptance of the rental agreement as presented.

This electronic agreement is made the ?? day of ????, ???? by and between YOU and YOUR OTHER (together “Renter”) and MEMBER and MEMBER (together “Member”) by ME ("Intermediary").
.........
Agreed and accepted on the date first shown above.

YOU
Renter

YOUR OTHER
Renter

MEMBER
Member

MEMBER
Member

The owners agreement might authrorize Dave's to electronically sign on behalf of the member, I don't know but the agreement is clearly between the renter and member. Dave drafted the agreement and acts as broker. Dave is not a party to the rental agreement. Under those conditions demanding additional money from the renter, under threat of cancelling the reservation, is extortion. A member who cancels such a reservation under those circumstances runs the real risk of losing more then 30%

 

[Sandisw]

Provided my credit card. I'm not sure when lodging was cancelled so I'll just wait and see about refund on dining. May be delay with cc company.

It typically takes 5 to 7 days to show up. It may take longer with the number they are dealing with.

 

[Sandisw]

Rental agreements may vary by broker. Dave's rental agreement may have changed. From the sample agreement currently posted on their website:

Please find below your invoice including rental agreement. Your payment in full is your acceptance of the rental agreement as presented.

This electronic agreement is made the ?? day of ????, ???? by and between YOU and YOUR OTHER (together “Renter”) and MEMBER and MEMBER (together “Member”) by ME ("Intermediary").
.........
Agreed and accepted on the date first shown above.

YOU
Renter

YOUR OTHER
Renter

MEMBER
Member

MEMBER
Member

The owners agreement might authrorize Dave's to electronically sign on behalf of the member, I don't know but the agreement is clearly between the renter and member. Dave drafted the agreement and acts as broker. Dave is not a party to the rental agreement. Under those conditions demanding additional money from the renter, under threat of cancelling the reservation, is extortion. A member who cancels such a reservation under those circumstances runs the real risk of losing more then 30%

I just rented a few weeks ago and I went back and looked and it does indeed say there is a rental agreement between myself and the renter made by the broker as an intermediary.

This is different than the intermediary agreement I acknowledged between myself and the broker,

So, it does appear that I have two contracts in place.

 

[Sandisw]

Untrue. There are 2 rental agreements. One is between the broker and the owner. If the broker goes away, the owner has no agreement in place to provide a reservation. The other agreement is between the broker and the renter. If the broker goes away, the renter has no reservation. In this case, the owner, who has the name and contact information of the renter, may step up and attempt to enter into an agreement with the renter. This will be the first time the two have had an agreement, and is not "extortion".

I agree that the 30% should be held in a separate escrow account, but that would require the assignment of an escrow agent. I have not seen a broker who had a rental agreement that specified there was an escrow agent. Escrow agents are always separate from the broker's business.

Actually, I think there are 3. Owner and David’s thst list terms to rent a reservation, Renter and David’s to search and secure a reservation, and then one between Renter and Owner made by David’s as an intermediary.

As an owner, I have two different ones with my name on them.

 

[Kaufeegurl]

Yes, there are 3 rental agreements as @Sandisw indicates. I have rented out my points through David's twice as we had excess banked points at (resale) contract purchase. The wording of our contract with the renter, us, and David's seems to be very clear - responsibility must ultimately lie with the renter - as they are very clearly counseled to purchase trip insurance and that "operational" changes ARE covered in the contract. Resort closure would certainly be an operational change and while this situation was probably not considered at the time the contract was written it is certainly open-ended enough that the wording covers a closure - the "not limited to" clause. I feel terrible for any owner or renter that is scrambling right now, but it does seem to me that a renter signed a contract acknowledging that they were advised to purchase travel insurance and that David's is not liable for operational changes. Below is a partial paragraph from the contract between us (the Owner), David's (the Intermediary), and the Renter.

Terms: All Sales Final
I, *******, have been advised by David’s Vacation Club Rentals to consider the purchase trip cancellation insurance. If you have indicated that you are a Canadian Citizen we also recommend the consideration of purchasing out of Province Health Insurance.

David’s Vacation Club Rentals is not liable for any operations changes by the Disney Vacation Club with respect to where you have booked your travel. This would include but is not limited to operations of resort restaurants, pools, play grounds and other amenities controlled by the Resort.
​

These are extraordinary times and there are no precedents to pull from. As an owner, if I had a rented reservation that was cancelled, I would bend over backwards to accommodate the renter or refund the money if there was plenty of time to re-rent or use the points. Some owners may not have the money available to refund. For those owners whose points are expiring, with no opportunity to use them, the right thing to do is for David's to honor their contract as the owner rented their points in good faith. It appears that DVC has also swung back in the other direction and is now placing borrowed points back into their original use year so that may help some owners make a decision.

At the end of the day, I don't think there is a good answer for anybody but I do know that everyone should "do the next right thing"

 

[cvjw]

Now David’s wants me to refund money to a renter who decided to check out early and no one let me know. All of my points are gone and they want me to refund the renter who voluntarily left early. I did not get a refund of the points from dvc and the reservation is over, so there is no chance of getting them back now. My points are gone and I am supposed to make the renter whole?

 

[Kaufeegurl]

Now David’s wants me to refund money to a renter who decided to check out early and no one let me know. All of my points are gone and they want me to refund the renter who voluntarily left early. I did not get a refund of the points from dvc and the reservation is over, so there is no chance of getting them back now. My points are gone and I am supposed to make the renter whole?

Nope, I would absolutely NOT refund the renter in this situation. And shame on David's for asking.

 

[toniosmom]

Now David’s wants me to refund money to a renter who decided to check out early and no one let me know. All of my points are gone and they want me to refund the renter who voluntarily left early. I did not get a refund of the points from dvc and the reservation is over, so there is no chance of getting them back now. My points are gone and I am supposed to make the renter whole?

I don't think that's your responsibility and should be your option ONLY if you can afford to do that. Many of us rent our points because we may have an excess and can't travel, so need the points to pay our dues. That's why David's recommends insurance to renters. If they don't buy it, it's their risk.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Now David’s wants me to refund money to a renter who decided to check out early and no one let me know. All of my points are gone and they want me to refund the renter who voluntarily left early. I did not get a refund of the points from dvc and the reservation is over, so there is no chance of getting them back now. My points are gone and I am supposed to make the renter whole?

again I would say that you upheld you end of the contract and if everyone else did too, then case closed - let’s go have a beer

if renters can start to have the cake and eat it too then I’m starting to be a renter too, who wouldn’t want a free vacation?

i know this is a special situation but still either you go or not.

 

[Sandisw]

Now David’s wants me to refund money to a renter who decided to check out early and no one let me know. All of my points are gone and they want me to refund the renter who voluntarily left early. I did not get a refund of the points from dvc and the reservation is over, so there is no chance of getting them back now. My points are gone and I am supposed to make the renter whole?

Does that mean you are not getting the 30%?

 

[toniosmom]

Does that mean you are not getting the 30%?

If the renter checked in -- and they did in this case -- then the owner should get the remaining 30% and it should have been paid on check-in day.

 

[Sandisw]

If the renter checked in -- and they did in this case -- then the owner should get the remaining 30% and it should have been paid on check-in day.

I know that, but there were reports David’s was holding back and if the poster was asked to refund money, I am wondering if they won’t be giving at at all.

It leads me to believe they may be facing a lot of renter disputes with CC that the non refundable aspect in this case does not apply and trying to limit that.

 

[fsjking]

Yes, there are 3 rental agreements as @Sandisw indicates. I have rented out my points through David's twice as we had excess banked points at (resale) contract purchase. The wording of our contract with the renter, us, and David's seems to be very clear - responsibility must ultimately lie with the renter - as they are very clearly counseled to purchase trip insurance and that "operational" changes ARE covered in the contract. Resort closure would certainly be an operational change and while this situation was probably not considered at the time the contract was written it is certainly open-ended enough that the wording covers a closure - the "not limited to" clause. I feel terrible for any owner or renter that is scrambling right now, but it does seem to me that a renter signed a contract acknowledging that they were advised to purchase travel insurance and that David's is not liable for operational changes. Below is a partial paragraph from the contract between us (the Owner), David's (the Intermediary), and the Renter.

Terms: All Sales Final
I, *******, have been advised by David’s Vacation Club Rentals to consider the purchase trip cancellation insurance. If you have indicated that you are a Canadian Citizen we also recommend the consideration of purchasing out of Province Health Insurance.

David’s Vacation Club Rentals is not liable for any operations changes by the Disney Vacation Club with respect to where you have booked your travel. This would include but is not limited to operations of resort restaurants, pools, play grounds and other amenities controlled by the Resort.
​

Devil's advocate, but that actually says that David's isn't responsible. It doesn't say the owner isn't. The verbiage on the insurance might as well not even be in there as it doesn't say they are required to. That makes it unenforceable. This whole thing is legally sticky. For those that have had their reservation completely cancelled, I think the CC company will side with them every time. If one of these actually went to court, it would be interesting.

 

[cvjw]

Does that mean you are not getting the 30%?

I got the 30% when they checked in on the 12th.
It was a different set of renters who checked in on the 15th where David’s did not want to pay the remaining 30%.

I would be happy to refund the renters if I had gotten my points back. I did not. No one let me know they voluntarily left early until it was too late to do anything.

I am definitely canceling my one remaining rental with David’s. I refuse to lose points and money too for someone who decided to leave early and David’s who takes their side . Too much risk in this rental situation now.

 

[fsjking]

I got the 30% when they checked in on the 12th.
It was a different set of renters who checked in on the 15th where David’s did not want to pay the remaining 30%.

I would be happy to refund the renters if I had gotten my points back. I did not. No one let me know they voluntarily left early until it was too late to do anything.

I am definitely canceling my one remaining rental with David’s. I refuse to lose points and money too for someone who decided to leave early and David’s who takes their side . Too much risk in this rental situation now.

I don't disagree with you doing that. I would hope you'd contact the renter directly to prepare them though. They may have to fight to get their money back with everything going on.

 

[Sandisw]

I got the 30% when they checked in on the 12th.
It was a different set of renters who checked in on the 15th where David’s did not want to pay the remaining 30%.

I would be happy to refund the renters if I had gotten my points back. I did not. No one let me know they voluntarily left early until it was too late to do anything.

I am definitely canceling my one remaining rental with David’s. I refuse to lose points and money too for someone who decided to leave early and David’s who takes their side . Too much risk in this rental situation now.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I can understand not wanting to deal with them any longer.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I got the 30% when they checked in on the 12th.
It was a different set of renters who checked in on the 15th where David’s did not want to pay the remaining 30%.

I would be happy to refund the renters if I had gotten my points back. I did not. No one let me know they voluntarily left early until it was too late to do anything.

I am definitely canceling my one remaining rental with David’s. I refuse to lose points and money too for someone who decided to leave early and David’s who takes their side . Too much risk in this rental situation now.

You should just refuse to refund the renter as they checked in and out.