Does David's tell you if the renter cancels?

[heynowirv]

The weird thing for me is my renter's never checked in and David's DID send me my 30% on check in day.I called on day 2 to David's to see if they checked in and 2 days ago I received the email telling me they didn't and can I please reschedule or refund them.
The day before check -in I was contacted by David's to cancel their dining plan so I have to think they were already thinking of cancelling. If they had I might've had a shot of recovering my points. The sessile was march 11-18 so yes the parks were open for the first 5 days of the trip and only closed for the last 2.And the resorts were open the whole time.How do we know if they had insurance or not?
I am getting a headache people.

 

[Lewisc]

Several of us commented on David's request of cvjw to consider a partial refund to a customer who checked out early.

I think we were harsh. A complaint, or even a request, from the renter has to be answered. Think of a complaint to BBB or a potential credit card dispute. Asking the member is probably required as part of a response by David's. I'd politely say no and suggest David's consider a refund from their commission.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Just based on this, it appear to me, unless I am reading it wrong, that he is admitting that because the resorts are closed, and the renter can’t check in, the agreement with the renter is not valid,

Sounds like even renters with insurance are not covered, I got taken to task for suggesting that a contract that can’t deliver the product could be deemed null and void,

If David’s is sending this out to owners, it’s seem to me he is concerned that non refundable does not apply when you can’t fulfill the terms of the contract

Or at the very least he is not taking any risks. Could be that he is trying to play the sympathy card, to get owners to issue a refund.

The insurance part is however BS as you can get CFAR and that covers everything including pandemics.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Or at the very least he is not taking any risks. Could be that he is trying to play the sympathy card, to get owners to issue a refund.

The insurance part is however BS as you can get CFAR and that covers everything including pandemics.

My insurance does cover pandemics. It’s not cancel for any reason, however as a Canadian who can’t leave we’re covered. So yes you’re right, some renters insurance does cover this.

Their willingness to flex on the no cancellations has made my insurance claim harder though, kind of ironically. And communication with them has been somewhat understandably difficult.

 

[Sandisw]

Or at the very least he is not taking any risks. Could be that he is trying to play the sympathy card, to get owners to issue a refund.

The insurance part is however BS as you can get CFAR and that covers everything including pandemics.

Sorry, What I meant is that many of the renters did buy trip insurance,,,which is recommended...bought unless it was CFAR, they are out of luck,

If you read the website, it mentions insurance, but it does not suggest it should be CFAR,

My point is that even renters who followed the advice to get some travel insurance are finding themselves in trouble.

 

[CraigInPA]

Rental agreements may vary by broker. Dave's rental agreement may have changed. From the sample agreement currently posted on their website:

Please find below your invoice including rental agreement. Your payment in full is your acceptance of the rental agreement as presented.

This electronic agreement is made the ?? day of ????, ???? by and between YOU and YOUR OTHER (together “Renter”) and MEMBER and MEMBER (together “Member”) by ME ("Intermediary").
.........
Agreed and accepted on the date first shown above.

YOU
Renter

YOUR OTHER
Renter

MEMBER
Member

MEMBER
Member

The owners agreement might authrorize Dave's to electronically sign on behalf of the member, I don't know but the agreement is clearly between the renter and member. Dave drafted the agreement and acts as broker. Dave is not a party to the rental agreement. Under those conditions demanding additional money from the renter, under threat of cancelling the reservation, is extortion. A member who cancels such a reservation under those circumstances runs the real risk of losing more then 30%

If the owner's agreement lacks an authorization to David's to sign such an agreement on behalf of the owner (power of attorney), the agreement is not enforceable upon the owner. When I last rented my points through David's, there was no such clause. In fact, had there been, I would not have agreed to rent my points.

 

[Sandisw]

If the owner's agreement lacks an authorization to David's to sign such an agreement on behalf of the owner (power of attorney), the agreement is not enforceable upon the owner. When I last rented my points through David's, there was no such clause. In fact, had there been, I would not have agreed to rent my points.

This is the only clause in the owners contract that I see that may be it. Would you feel this give them the right?

 

[purplenancy27]

Sorry, What I meant is that many of the renters did buy trip insurance,,,which is recommended...bought unless it was CFAR, they are out of luck,

If you read the website, it mentions insurance, but it does not suggest it should be CFAR,

My point is that even renters who followed the advice to get some travel insurance are finding themselves in trouble.

Another consideration is -CFAR is only available if purchase within14 days of deposit. In my case it took 20 days to secure the reservation. So i could not get the coverage.
I like to think Davids will pay owner the 30%. They would lose too many owners otherwise. Everyone would post their stories. I am sure he cant afford to lose all they great owners.

 

[CraigInPA]

This is the only clause in the owners contract that I see that may be it. Would you feel this give them the right?

View attachment 482213

This is the only clause in the owners contract that I see that may be it. Would you feel this give them the right?

View attachment 482213

I assume that is one of the owner's responsibilities. As such, it is insufficient as a power of attorney. It appears to be an attempt to shift the agreement to both parties without David's being involved. However, the agreement posted earlier is a three way agreement. This is an excellent example of why an attorney (or a better attorney) should have been involved in writing the agreements.

 

[Sandisw]

Another consideration is -CFAR is only available if purchase within14 days of deposit. In my case it took 20 days to secure the reservation. So i could not get the coverage.
I like to think Davids will pay owner the 30%. They would lose too many owners otherwise. Everyone would post their stories. I am sure he cant afford to lose all they great owners.

I agree, but there is information out there that he has indicated that since the rooms couldn’t be delivered, it may have made the contracts invalid,

From what I have read, the 30% is on hold to owners, and some have been asked to refund renters,

Honestly, it’s a mess and the rental market will take a hit, I currently have one in place for a renter in August, I am already expecting that I may not get my 30% and if the resort is closed, refund or reschedule my renter,

 

[Sandisw]

I assume that is one of the owner's responsibilities. As such, it is insufficient as a power of attorney. It appears to be an attempt to shift the agreement to both parties without David's being involved. However, the agreement posted earlier is a three way agreement. This is an excellent example of why an attorney (or a better attorney) should have been involved in writing the agreements.

No, it’s one of his responsibilities. I would have assumed he would have had some legal advice in creating these in Canada.

 

[purplenancy27]

Maybe David should tell the April renters to go to Hawaii.

 

[Kaufeegurl]

If the owner's agreement lacks an authorization to David's to sign such an agreement on behalf of the owner (power of attorney), the agreement is not enforceable upon the owner. When I last rented my points through David's, there was no such clause. In fact, had there been, I would not have agreed to rent my points.

This exactly. One reason why I used David's is that you do not need to provide a social security number, this is the other. If I'm paying a commission to an intermediary, then the risk needs to be on the intermediary, not me as the owner.

 

[Kaufeegurl]

I like to think Davids will pay owner the 30%. They would lose too many owners otherwise. Everyone would post their stories. I am sure he cant afford to lose all they great owners.

I am filtering everyone's experiences who is an owner renting through David's during this crisis. It will impact whether I use David's going forward if I need to rent some points. I have not read about experiences others are having who have points rented through this site's sponsor, The DVC Store - who would be my next choice. I subscribe to the DVC Show Podcast with Pete and gang, and I have been extremely impressed with the integrity and professionalism that Jerry Sydow, representing The DVC Store, brings to the show. Curious how they are handling their rental contracts during this time. @Jerry@dvcstore @WebmasterPete How this crisis has impacted rental contracts, the fallout, and the rental market going forward would be a great DVC Show topic.

 

[Kaufeegurl]

No, it’s one of his responsibilities. I would have assumed he would have had some legal advice in creating these in Canada.

This is in the contract signed by the owner, renter, and David's. I would think a closed resort counts as an operational change by DVC. And you can bet going forward that resort closures specifically will be addressed in future contracts.

"David’s Vacation Club Rentals is not liable for any operations changes by the Disney Vacation Club with respect to where you have booked your travel. This would include but is not limited to operations of resort restaurants, pools, play grounds and other amenities controlled by the Resort."

 

[Deb & Bill]

Question for owners who are rescheduling. If the new reservation requires more points, are you getting additional funds from the renter? If it requires fewer points, are you returning funds to the renter?

 

[Sandisw]

This is in the contract signed by the owner, renter, and David's. I would think a closed resort counts as an operational change by DVC. And you can bet going forward that resort closures specifically will be addressed in future contracts.

"David’s Vacation Club Rentals is not liable for any operations changes by the Disney Vacation Club with respect to where you have booked your travel. This would include but is not limited to operations of resort restaurants, pools, play grounds and other amenities controlled by the Resort."

I understand that and it could very well be enough. But, given his own email to an owner that the contract he has with the renter is considered no longer valid, I am not convinced that this would be deemed sufficient to include resort closing, That clause was to protect againsr amenities at the resort being eliminated.

Ultimately, it will be the broker holding the bag if renters seek a dispute through the CC company and they agree with the renter.

However, if Davids has decided...and I would assume that he has gotten some legal advice being this is unprecedented...there could be issues with its legality..

I just can’t imagine if he was confident he had strong legal standing, he would not be holding back the 30% that seems to be happening

 

[Kaufeegurl]

I just can’t imagine if he was confident he had strong legal standing, he would not be holding back the 30% that seems to be happening

I think he's holding back the 30% because per contract that is awarded on check-in and since the renter can't "check-in" then per contract David's doesn't owe the owner the last 30%. And since David's collected the full payment up front from the renter, then the right thing to do is at least give the renter back the 30% that he has already collected. And he could frost the refund by including his commission in the refund.

 

[poofyo101]

Question for owners who are rescheduling. If the new reservation requires more points, are you getting additional funds from the renter? If it requires fewer points, are you returning funds to the renter?

if more, yes they need to fill it in

 

[Sandisw]

I think he's holding back the 30% because per contract that is awarded on check-in and since the renter can't "check-in" then per contract David's doesn't owe the owner the last 30%

I was just going to ask what others thoughts were on that! You read my mind!

So, in essence, what the broker could do is refund renters his portion and that 30% back, If his contract with them is being looked at as possible invalid,

That could soften the blow and keep the brokers damage In all of this to a minimum.