Does David's tell you if the renter cancels?

[GoingSince1990]

We had renter's thru David's scheduled for 3/11-18. I called David's on 3/13 to see if the renter's had cancelled or checked-in .The woman I talked to said she'd reach out to them and let me know. Well I just received an email fromDavid's today asking if I could refund the funds since the family decided to not go.My response was that I was confused about this since I tried over 4 days ago to find out their status.But if the points came back I'd be more than willing to help.
Fast forward to me calling MS an hour ago and their response was that it was my responsibility to call days ago to cancel.I'm waiting on a phone call from a supervisor to see if she /he can make and exception.Would I be wrong to tell David's if I don't get the points back I won't refund the money? I don't think it would be fair for me to lose both ways, points and funds.

All the hotels were open for that entire time and the renters could still have taken the vacation. For them to simply not show up on check-in day, unbeknownst to you, and to expect you to pay a refund when you don't even have the points back, and may not be able to get them back since they were a no-show, is utterly unreasonable. So no, you are not wrong at all.

 

[Sandisw]

Resorts in hurricane areas such as Vero Beach and maybe even Hilton Head are subject to possible closures due to hurricanes. Depending on damage the time period could extend for weeks, maybe even months. Brokers failure to include the appropriate terms in both the rental contract and owners contract is irresponsible. Depending on the terms owners, or renters, might have avoided that broker. Leaving it ambiguous may help the brokers business but is certainly leading to confusion. Suggesting travel insurance is a cop out. JMO but customers assume travel insurance coverage is far more extensive then it actually is.

JMO but once Disney canceled the reservation the contract is void and the renter is entitled to a full refund. The terms of the rental agreement, the reservation, is no longer in effect. I have no doubt a credit card dispute, at least in those cases where a dispute can be filed on a timely basis, would be successful.

More then 10 years ago an owner I previously rented with was trying to get me a reservation when everything was sold out. My memory was it couldn't be done online and she was calling daily. She was also trying to get a reservation for her family, different week, and didn't mind also checking for me.. I had a room only resort reservation and told her to just book the DVC if it was available and I'd pay within 24 hours. I asked if she wanted me to give her a deposit while she was checking. She wasn't worried. She told me she never rents points that can't be banked. At the time I didn't realize the significance. Isn't this the biggest issue.? Owners have points which might wind up expiring before they can be re-rented.

With the resort closed, I can’t imagine renters won’t dispute the charge with the CC company with the notion that the product wasn’t delivered.

 

[cvjw]

We had renter's thru David's scheduled for 3/11-18. I called David's on 3/13 to see if the renter's had cancelled or checked-in .The woman I talked to said she'd reach out to them and let me know. Well I just received an email fromDavid's today asking if I could refund the funds since the family decided to not go.My response was that I was confused about this since I tried over 4 days ago to find out their status.But if the points came back I'd be more than willing to help.
Fast forward to me calling MS an hour ago and their response was that it was my responsibility to call days ago to cancel.I'm waiting on a phone call from a supervisor to see if she /he can make and exception.Would I be wrong to tell David's if I don't get the points back I won't refund the money? I don't think it would be fair for me to lose both ways, points and funds.

I personally, think you are under no obligation to refund any money. This failing falls on David’s. It is up to him to get in touch with you to cancel the reservation, and he did not. You have no control over losing your points because the renter did not check in. In this instance, if David‘s dropped the ball on the cancellation, he should eat the refund If one has to be issued.

 

[Sandisw]

Thanks so much! Seeing it from them reassures me that I will have options come August if things need to be adjusted! Those points are borrowed so I will be in a position to help the renter out with a rebooking if need be!

I will add, I certainly won't be someone who every recommends rentals to anyone I know, because if a renter is out of luck, even in a case like this, it is not worth the savings.

 

[foreUT]

Does David's possibly have his own, company insurance that covers events like this? I have a short term rental that lost guests after Hurricane Michael. My insurance covered the full amount and I was able to avoid chargebacks, which are inevitable if an accommodation is not available.

 

[MICKIMINI]

If that happens, it clears the path to credit card disputes, at the very least.

Credit card disputes would be with the broker not the owner. The broker was paid by the owner to be the third party - it is protection, otherwise why would an owner pay a broker?

 

[MICKIMINI]

With the resort closed, I can’t imagine renters won’t dispute the charge with the CC company with the notion that the product wasn’t delivered.

Disputes are with the broker who ran the CC.

 

[Van Houten]

Credit card disputes would be with the broker not the owner. The broker was paid by the owner to be the third party - it is protection, otherwise why would an owner pay a broker?

Yes - but I assume the brokers will be looking for ways to recoup the funds from the rightful owner. That's where their legal contracts will be tested.
It appears that at present time David's is looking for a less confrontational option, trying to bring all parties to the table.

 

[Sandisw]

Disputes are with the broker who ran the CC.

But can you imagine if a lot of renters who are dealing with a broker and believe a refund is due because of what happened, it could put a big strain on the broker and who knows what will happen then.

 

[GoingSince1990]

But can you imagine if a lot of renters who are dealing with a broker and believe a refund is due because of what happened, it could put a big strain on the broker and who knows what will happen then.

Yep. Credit card chargebacks are likely to be the brokers' biggest problem. Anyone who paid a broker using a credit card for a hotel stay where the hotel turned out to be closed would seem to have an automatic, iron-clad case for a chargeback. I would hate to see any brokers going under, but it would certainly seem to be a possibility. And things are likely to change in future; the days of 75% paid to the owner up front are probably numbered.

 

[CraigInPA]

Per my question earlier, as DVC owners, you've assigned Disney as your agent to make decisions concerning the timeshare. When Disney decides to close the resort, does that not have responsibility for the closure fall on you as the owner? I know there's some gray area on whether they were forced to close or chose to close as I don't think hotels have been specified anywhere. But on a lehyal basis, if the resort closes, as an owner are you responsible whether you had any control over the decision.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but am genuinely interested in the legal discussion.jhu

The answer is that the members have a managing agent, to whom all decisions are delegated. Each individual owner has no authority over the managing agent. So, no individual owner bears individual responsibility for the managing agents actions.

Were there a vote to close among all members, and the members voted to close, there is "collective" responsibility. Collective responsibility is a very complex concept, and beyond the scope of an internet posting where it does not apply.

In short, the answer is that the owners bear no individual responsibility for actions taken by the managing agent.

 

[rchristiansen]

I am the owner.

Duh. I meant the renter.

 

[Maddiesmum03]

Just had a reply from David’s after letting them know that DVC have said the points used for the reservation that did not happen yesterday have been returned to my 2019 UY (they were 2020 originally) and so I was happy to rebook for the renters up to End of July;
“If we are successful in re-renting your points, you will LIKELY receive the final 30% on the new check in date.”

I have just replied telling them in no uncertain terms that I am not happy to go to the trouble of rescheduling further reservations, set up Disney Dining, etc, if they cannot guarantee I will receive the money they owe me from the original contract for using my points and once my current rentals with them are completed (one in April, two next year) I will not do business with them again. I am all for putting things right for the renters, but it seems very unfair if at the end of this David’s have taken 100% of the money from the renters, made things right by rescheduling or using my points for another rental and paying them back from this fee yet will only pay me 70% of what was in the contract between us.

 

[Van Houten]

“If we are successful in re-renting your points, you will LIKELY receive the final 30% on the new check in date.”

I think their way of trying to manage expectations is going to cause them more grief. Here is how they communicate to the renters:

The Owner is unable to provide a refund for the funds that they have already received for this reservation.
However, the Owner is willing to re-rent the points, so this way would we would be able to offer you some sort of refund once their points have been re-rented.

 

[Sandisw]

Just had a reply from David’s after letting them know that DVC have said the points used for the reservation that did not happen yesterday have been returned to my 2019 UY (they were 2020 originally) and so I was happy to rebook for the renters up to End of July;
“If we are successful in re-renting your points, you will LIKELY receive the final 30% on the new check in date.”

I have just replied telling them in no uncertain terms that I am not happy to go to the trouble of rescheduling further reservations, set up Disney Dining, etc, if they cannot guarantee I will receive the money they owe me from the original contract for using my points and once my current rentals with them are completed (one in April, two next year) I will not do business with them again. I am all for putting things right for the renters, but it seems very unfair if at the end of this David’s have taken 100% of the money from the renters, made things right by rescheduling or using my points for another rental and paying them back from this fee yet will only pay me 70% of what was in the contract between us.

Wow. Do you think that means if you hadn't offer to re-rent, that you'd be out the 30%? Definitely keep us posted.

 

[GoingSince1990]

Just had a reply from David’s after letting them know that DVC have said the points used for the reservation that did not happen yesterday have been returned to my 2019 UY (they were 2020 originally) and so I was happy to rebook for the renters up to End of July;
“If we are successful in re-renting your points, you will LIKELY receive the final 30% on the new check in date.”

I have just replied telling them in no uncertain terms that I am not happy to go to the trouble of rescheduling further reservations, set up Disney Dining, etc, if they cannot guarantee I will receive the money they owe me from the original contract for using my points and once my current rentals with them are completed (one in April, two next year) I will not do business with them again. I am all for putting things right for the renters, but it seems very unfair if at the end of this David’s have taken 100% of the money from the renters, made things right by rescheduling or using my points for another rental and paying them back from this fee yet will only pay me 70% of what was in the contract between us.

Based upon this, I would suggest that any owner in your situation notifies David’s that before entering into any kind of discussions at all, David’s needs to promptly pay the 30% payment that is owed, at which point you will be open to things like attempting to re-rent the points.

 

[CarolynFH]

Just had a reply from David’s after letting them know that DVC have said the points used for the reservation that did not happen yesterday have been returned to my 2019 UY (they were 2020 originally) and so I was happy to rebook for the renters up to End of July;
“If we are successful in re-renting your points, you will LIKELY receive the final 30% on the new check in date.”

I have just replied telling them in no uncertain terms that I am not happy to go to the trouble of rescheduling further reservations, set up Disney Dining, etc, if they cannot guarantee I will receive the money they owe me from the original contract for using my points and once my current rentals with them are completed (one in April, two next year) I will not do business with them again. I am all for putting things right for the renters, but it seems very unfair if at the end of this David’s have taken 100% of the money from the renters, made things right by rescheduling or using my points for another rental and paying them back from this fee yet will only pay me 70% of what was in the contract between us.

Is it possible they mean the date you’ll receive the 30% will likely be the new check-in date but might be another date? Have you received a reply from them clarifying that statement?

 

[Sandisw]

Is it possible they mean the date you’ll receive the 30% will likely be the new check-in date but might be another date? Have you received a reply from them clarifying that statement?

That’s a good point. It could mean that!!

 

[cvjw]

They did not want to pay my 30% on Sunday the 15th when it was owed. Said it might come in a day or two. I am not sure what to believe anymore. I definitely do not think of renting the same way I did a few days ago.

 

[Sandisw]

They did not want to pay my 30% on Sunday the 15th when it was owed. Said it might come in a day or two. I am not sure what to believe anymore. I definitely do not think of renting the same way I did a few days ago.

I agree. Let’s be honest, owners really have no control right now in terms of getting the 30% if it’s not sent. It’d break the business, but if you have renters who begin to dispute CC with him, it could be a big mess,

I just can’t believe that renters, when they start to hear stories, that they weren’t entitled to money back when the resort room couldn’t be delivered because of closure, and that an owner gets to keep the money and the points, that it won’t leave a bad taste on the whole process,

All it will take is a few stories like that and I think the risk may not outweigh the savings.