Does anyone think this situation is unfair?

[cheermom1]

If someone is reading at a 6th grade level - why are they even IN high school?

I get that she at her absolute best but to put her in the same category as the students that do not have the disability as she does is wrong for her and the other students ..it gives the SE child a false sense of her accomplishments as well as watering down the students that truly are worthy of the ranks they are given..but I also agree they need to go after the flawed system not the girl...

 

[Robindianne]

If someone is reading at a 6th grade level - why are they even IN high school?

Because we don't hide kids with disabilities anymore. It's illegal to throw kids away. Not to mention, it's wrong and there but for the grace of whoever you pray to go you.

Peace.

 

[tazdev3225]

There are systems in place to help these children, so we clearly have not lost our compassion. I see no lack of compassion, but a desire to correct a flawed metric...

I agree that the desire is to correct what is deemed to be a flawed system in their view but the desire is to do it now. This will exclude a child who has earned the right to be there based on the system that is in place. That is where I feel the lack of compassion is in this case. My one special ed student is now in college and still struggles with tests but she works harder than I have ever had to for a grade and I have a college degree.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I agree the system needs to be petitoned and the girl's name shouldn't be apart of the discussion but in a small school and town it is likely that name will come out somehow. I will try to encourage my cousin not to get involved.

No doubt, almost everyone will know what started this, but it wouldn't be formally introduced, so let people talk. In fact, they are probably already talking about it. Something doesn't gain this much traction without a lot of noise...

 

[PlainJane]

When I was in high school there was a weight added to the grade for ranking. An A earned in a level 1 class (special ed) was not worth as much as an A earned in a level 2 class (normal) which in turn was not worth as much as an A earned in a level 3 class (honors).

In that situation someone taking some level 3 classes and earning a 3.5 would be ranked higher than a student taking all level 2 classes and earning a 3.5. If anyone took any level 1 classes and had a 3.5 they would be ranked 3rd of the 3.

If they petition the school to implement a system like this, it shouldn't go into effect this year. Doing it this year, would just be cruel. The girl worked hard and followed the current rules to get her ranking.

If it were to be implemented, I don't think it should go into effect until next year's freshmen class. That way those kids know the rules they're playing by when they sign up for classes.

Honestly, I think the current ranking system's failure does not lie with the SE ranking, but instead the student's that take non honors classes to keep their GPA higher.

 

[tinatark]

Browneyes106, do you know if SE students get a diploma at graduation? A completion certificate? Or do they continue their "schooling" beyond the traditional senior year?

How can someone NOT part of the graduating class be ranked within that class? Do the requirements for class rankings require that the person actually be graduating? Class rankings start at the freshman year, and should be automated based on the grading system. If the SE students were never exempted from the rankings, maybe it was a simple clerical error and she never should have been ranked to begin with.

 

[FireDancer]

If someone is reading at a 6th grade level - why are they even IN high school?

Yeah, this I don't get. To graduate from any grade you should have to demonstrate your proficiency at reading, writing, math, science, history, and every other subject at that grade level. If you can't you get to do it again.

To graduate from 12th grade with the ability of a 6th grader is 5 levels past being an example of the peter principle. There is nothing wrong with separating them out and giving them different criteria as opposed to leaving them on the trash heap of life, it makes complete sense. But then they should be ranked differently or have the grades weighted. It just makes more sense. Someone getting an A in differential equations is not the same as someone getting an A in remedial algebra.

Then again these things shouldn't surprise me. For an industry that should be full of intelligent people they sure as heck don't think things out sometimes.

 

[golfgal]

Yeah, this I don't get. To graduate from any grade you should have to demonstrate your proficiency at reading, writing, math, science, history, and every other subject at that grade level. If you can't you get to do it again.

To graduate from 12th grade with the ability of a 6th grader is 5 levels past being an example of the peter principle. There is nothing wrong with separating them out and giving them different criteria as opposed to leaving them on the trash heap of life, it makes complete sense. But then they should be ranked differently or have the grades weighted. It just makes more sense. Someone getting an A in differential equations is not the same as someone getting an A in remedial algebra.

Then again these things shouldn't surprise me. For an industry that should be full of intelligent people they sure as heck don't think things out sometimes.

There are many exceptions made with special education. There are a lot of special ed kids that will NEVER be able to read at a 6th grade level but their progress is tracked differently and they will eventually "graduate" from high school. They are intelligent people and have come up with an intelligent solution for some kids that will never be able to do some things. I know several people that have learning disabilities that can't read past a 6th grade level that are professional people with masters degrees, it doesn't make them less intelligent.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Yeah, this I don't get. To graduate from any grade you should have to demonstrate your proficiency at reading, writing, math, science, history, and every other subject at that grade level. If you can't you get to do it again.

To graduate from 12th grade with the ability of a 6th grader is 5 levels past being an example of the peter principle. There is nothing wrong with separating them out and giving them different criteria as opposed to leaving them on the trash heap of life, it makes complete sense. But then they should be ranked differently or have the grades weighted. It just makes more sense. Someone getting an A in differential equations is not the same as someone getting an A in remedial algebra.

Then again these things shouldn't surprise me. For an industry that should be full of intelligent people they sure as heck don't think things out sometimes.

Here in MO there is no "ability testing" that holds you back from graduation. As long as you pass with the required courses, no matter your level, you graduate.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

honestly, i think the current ranking system's failure does not lie with the se ranking, but instead the student's that take non honors classes to keep their gpa higher.

mte

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...I know several people that have learning disabilities that can't read past a 6th grade level that are professional people with masters degrees...

I really am not politically correct enough to accept that a person who cannot read at the 6th grade level deserves a HS diploma, much less a college degree. Devalues everyone else's accomplishment...

 

[Tiggeroo]

Yes she deserves her diploma and to walk with her class. Here in NJ we have diploma that specifies the student can't pass the hs grad test. This student shouldn't be placed in the class ranking however. Our schools exclude special ed students from class ranking because they don't want them to drag down their school statistics.
In NJ the top ten percent get a full scholarship to CC and often very good offers from other schools. Kids work hard to be in that top ten percent and take the most difficult classes offered.

 

[golfgal]

I really am not politically correct enough to accept that a person who cannot read at the 6th grade level deserves a HS diploma, much less a college degree. Devalues everyone else's accomplishment...

Um, ok, so they had to have their text books read to them (via tape) vs reading the books themselves, they were still able to comprehend what they learned and passed all the tests and course requirements to get that degree--how on earth does that devalue what someone else has done? I sure hope you never have to experience a learning disability--or say a stroke that causes you to lose the ability to read because you know, that will instantly make you dumb .

 

[happygirl]

This NHS student should be ashamed of themselves. To them this girl work isn't as hard as what they had to do. Expect, to this girl they were just as hard as the class they take, I say let her have her moment.

 

[horseshowmom]

Oops I meant to type in that post that AP classes are weighted higher than regular classes. I meant to type that regular and special ed classes are weighted the same.

This is a district policy, and your cousin definitely needs to stay out of it. She needs to explain to them that this is district policy, and they should take their concerns to the principal who will likely direct them to the school board. Petition or not, nothing will change for the current year. While I don't agree with the fact that regular classes and SpEd classes are ranked the same, they are nonetheless. It would be unfair (illegal) for the policy to be changed for the current year in regards to this particular student. Any petitions to the school board would pertain to future school years.

I don't get the "she may have worked just as hard or harder" part. My DD works really hard in ICP and gets a C. Someone else might not work as hard and gets an A? Are we really going to start going by "effort" instead of actual grades? Who judges how much effort one puts into a certain subject? Does the teacher know how much Sally does at home?

I agree that this is not an option. What about students in "regular" classes? I know many of them who work very hard to get a C, but the fact is that they don't graduate with honors just because they worked hard to get that. It just doesn't work that way. The system explained by firedancer makes much mores sense where each class is weighted.

 

[FireDancer]

There are many exceptions made with special education. There are a lot of special ed kids that will NEVER be able to read at a 6th grade level but their progress is tracked differently and they will eventually "graduate" from high school. They are intelligent people and have come up with an intelligent solution for some kids that will never be able to do some things. I know several people that have learning disabilities that can't read past a 6th grade level that are professional people with masters degrees, it doesn't make them less intelligent.

Hence

There is nothing wrong with separating them out and giving them different criteria as opposed to leaving them on the trash heap of life, it makes complete sense. But then they should be ranked differently or have the grades weighted.

 

[MrsPete]

Yeah, this I don't get. To graduate from any grade you should have to demonstrate your proficiency at reading, writing, math, science, history, and every other subject at that grade level. If you can't you get to do it again.

Here's a detail that some of you are missing: In my state, we offer several DIFFERENT high school diplomas.

The majority of our graduates earn a plain old academic diploma.
Some of them have followed a college prep pathway, and they're ready to head into a four-year college. Others have followed a military prep diploma, others have followed a tech-prep diploma. Along with their parents, students CHOOSE the pathway they're going to follow, and they can change it during their four years in high school. Some students begin in a college-prep pathway, yet because they fail certain classes, they end up dropping down to a lower pathway.

Some of our students receive an NC Scholar seal on their diplomas, indicating that they've followed a more rigorous course of study, and they've earned a higher GPA over their high school years.

Exceptional Children (some states still use the term Special Education) in a self-contained classroom earn an Occupational Diploma. They are not held to the same requirements as their college-bound classmates. They do not take end-of-course tests or competency tests along the way. They are required to complete a rather large number of work hours (at "jobs" like cleaning a local business, folding clothes for Goodwill, etc.). Their diploma requirements are set up for their ability level and are designed to help them learn skills that will help them in jobs that they can manage as adults. And -- in the end -- they receive a diploma, but it is NOT THE SAME DIPLOMA that the afore-mentioned grade-grubbers will receive. People don't realize this because we award so few of these diplomas. Last year my school didn't award a single one; this year I think we'll award two.

Then there's the Certificate of Completion, which means you were there but didn't achieve anything at all.

Note:
I think we're all talking about self-contained Exceptional Children. That is, the ones who obviously are different from their classmates, who obviously need extra help, and who spend their whole day in a classroom with other students like themselves. It's important to note that these students are a small minority of our Exceptional Children. In my school of 1700, we have 25-30 self-contained students; only two of the seven high schools in my county have self-contained classrooms.

The majority of our Exceptional Children are "mainstreamed" all day long in regular classrooms, and they are meeting the same requirements as the rest of the student body -- often they have one pull-out class each day for extra help, sometimes they receive extra help from the teacher in small ways, and sometimes they don't require any help whatsoever.

Also, these oh-so-exclusive NHS students might like to remember that if they're taking honors /AP classes, THEY TOO are labeled Exceptional Children. Exceptional can mean either high or low. It can mean a student with average intelligence who is hearing-impaired. A fairly large number of our students are labeled Exceptional.

As to the situation in question . . .

In real life, I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole. There's no winning this one because of the "special snowflake" or "but we're the beautiful people" syndrome, the ones who can ONLY see how this affects their own child.

In the anonimity of the internet, understanding that GPA and class rank are two different concepts, I'd suggest that a two-fold strategy would be fair:

1. Any student who earns a certain GPA should be allowed to graduate with honors, regardless of the classes they take. Those students deserve to wear an honors cord over their cap/gown and be recognized in the graduation program. This doesn't affect other students in any way. Well, it doesn't affect other students in any way other than bruised feelings, which the grade-grubbers should just get over -- someone else's success does not equate to your lack of success, and many of these "but what about me?" students need to toughen up.

2. Students who are not working towards academic diplomas should not be ranked along with their class -- and this really means the students in the self-contained classes. They aren't completing the same requirements, and their work hours are not equivalent to Chemistry class, so it doesn't make sense to compare them to their classmates in this way. They are not going to compete for scholarships and college applications, so class rank is really not important to them.

 

[Sparx]

If someone is reading at a 6th grade level - why are they even IN high school?

So now the mentally disabled can't go to high school? wow.

public education isn't a privilege anymore, sorry.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Um, ok, so they had to have their text books read to them (via tape) vs reading the books themselves, they were still able to comprehend what they learned and passed all the tests and course requirements to get that degree--how on earth does that devalue what someone else has done? I sure hope you never have to experience a learning disability--or say a stroke that causes you to lose the ability to read because you know, that will instantly make you dumb .

See, the only one calling people who cannot read dumb is you. If a degree requires X for everyone, but someone gets special treatment and is allowed the same degree for doing less than X, the value of that degree in the market place diminishes.

After Harvard went through its degree "handout" scandal, virtually every Harvard grad was viewed differently for years.

If someone has to do less, they should be given a different diploma. Period.

 

[MrsPete]

There are many exceptions made with special education. There are a lot of special ed kids that will NEVER be able to read at a 6th grade level but their progress is tracked differently and they will eventually "graduate" from high school. They are intelligent people and have come up with an intelligent solution for some kids that will never be able to do some things. I know several people that have learning disabilities that can't read past a 6th grade level that are professional people with masters degrees, it doesn't make them less intelligent.

I don't know anyone with a master's degree who can't read well. Not a single one. Earning a master's degree requires a high level of academic ability, and reading is the most basic of those skills.