Does anyone know about Wills? (Update-clause in #17)

[Ciao Mickey]

A question-

According to your will when you die your estate will go to A, B and C (equal shares).

In the meantime, C dies (but you are still alive).

Does your estate now go to A and B?

or,

Does C's heirs have a claim to your estate too if you've never changed your will?

 

[RadioNate]

C heirs claim the estate. More technically C's estate inherits from "your" estate.

At least that is how it worked when my uncle died. His will was never changed after my aunt died and everything was left to her. She was deceased so the assets were divided between her sisters (they had no children.)

That situation was actually a huge mess because her will was never probated but that is what happened. I'm not 100% positive it is typical but I'm pretty sure it is.

 

[doxdogy]

Depends on what the will states. If I recall correctly, my dad's stated that if one of us died before he did, our share would not pass to our heirs.

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

My will and my parents' will states that if a child is deceased (meaning I die before my parents), my portion of their estate will pass to my legal children. Which means it will totally bypass my DH and my stepdaughters. It will only go to my DD. I've written my will the same way.

So it all depends on how the will is written.

 

[NeverlandClub23]

I work at an estate planning law firm and it does indeed depend on how it is written. I've done wills where if A, B, or C dies the money is left to a charity, to pets, etc. It doesn't necessarily go to the descendants.

 

[paintnolish]

Okay, I know this is a serious thread, but I read it as "Does anyone know about Willis?" I thought it had something to do with Gary Coleman.
Op, I hope you get your answer. Sorry to hijack.

 

[mom2travel]

Okay, I know this is a serious thread, but I read it as "Does anyone know about Willis?" I thought it had something to do with Gary Coleman.
Op, I hope you get your answer. Sorry to hijack.

I read it that way at first too

OP - when my grandfather's estate (in PA) was distributed, his niece received her mother's share since dgf's sister pre-deceased him and he had not changed his will

 

[RadioNate]

right but what if nothing is written? What if nothing is specified after A, B & C? What is if it is just A, B & C with no provisions if A, B, or C is deceased. That is what I'm reading from the OP. That the will in question leaves no specific provisions on what to do if any of the listed beneficiaries are dead.

 

[bgirldeb]

Okay, I know this is a serious thread, but I read it as "Does anyone know about Willis?" I thought it had something to do with Gary Coleman.
Op, I hope you get your answer. Sorry to hijack.

I read it that way at first too

Me three, as in "watcha talkin bout Willis"?

Sorry, carry on...

 

[agnes!]

right but what if nothing is written? What if nothing is specified after A, B & C? What is if it is just A, B & C with no provisions if A, B, or C is deceased. That is what I'm reading from the OP. That the will in question leaves no specific provisions on what to do if any of the listed beneficiaries are dead.

If there are no provisions in the deceased's Will, then the estate still goes to A, B and C with C's share being divided up among C's heirs because *they* inherit anything of C's (depending on the state laws). If C has no children or grandchildren then A & B divide the estate.

Unless everything is in trust, but that's a completely different animal.

agnes!
PS - I am not a lawyer but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn.

 

[NeverlandClub23]

PS - I am nto a lawyer but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn.

 

[barkley]

this is why some wills specificly spell out that equal shares go to "my survivors a, b and c"-then spells out what the person writing the will means by "surviving" (in some cases the inheritor must be alive at least 30 days after the death of the willing party). then it spells out what happens if one of the beneficiaries pre-deceases.

when it's not spelled out it can cause a HUGE mess.

case in point-a friend's grandfather was nearing the end of his life, she went to see him at the nursing home and he passed away. she left to go tell her mother (who had been in very poor health as well) and found her collapsed and barely alive. paramedics are called and the woman makes it to the hospital where withing hours she passes.

grandpa's will named no provision for the shares that went to his children should they not survive before distribution. that dd left no will-and her share alone exceeded the amount that could be non probated.

in this case the estate has been tied up for over 3 years because double probate is occuring (grandpa to now deceased dd, deceased dd to her eligible surviving children).

it's a god awful mess.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

Any estate planning attorney worth their salt will ask their client this question and include the correct language to ensure that rights of survivorship follow your wishes.

Unfortunately, somebody has to finish at the bottom of the law school class, just as with every other class in life, so not all estate planning attorneys are equal. Some are great, and some are rather clueless.

Furthermore, "do-it-yourself" will services frequently omit this language. It's an important consideration, to put it mildly.

DW's and my wills stipulate what happens if one of us dies, if both of us die and leave the children alive, if one dies and a child dies, if we both die and one child survives us. We even have the "God forbid" clause, i.e. that if we all die, it basically all goes to our universities, graduate schools and a couple of other charities.

This is also why a will is not a "write it and forget it" instrument, but rather one that should be reviewed and updated periodically. I've worked on estates where the will was written 30 years before, and the confusion caused by these events is significant.

Hope this helps.

P.S. This isn't legal advice, just my friendly input on a topic I work with!

 

[LadyZolt]

Generally, there is some language that includes the possibility that someone may predecease the testator (person writing the will). There's also state law -- some states will give a specific period of time, like 30 days, that a named beneficiary must live or he/she will be considered to have predeceased the testator.

Wording such as "per stirpes" and "per capita" can also determine how assets will be distributed. In the case where nothing is actually specified, I think you'd end up in court letting the court decide what it thinks the person meant to convey. The possibility then exists that the court can't decide at all, in which case it can throw the will out completely and treat all assets as if the person died without a will at all, in which case state law determines who gets the assets.

-Dorothy (who isn't a lawyer, either, but also stayed in a Holiday Inn several times, and also acted a personal representative to three estates)

 

[allison443]

A question-

According to your will when you die your estate will go to A, B and C (equal shares).

In the meantime, C dies (but you are still alive).

Does your estate now go to A and B?

or,

Does C's heirs have a claim to your estate too if you've never changed your will?

Your question cannot be answered without knowing what state you are in, and what the specific language of the will states. As others have said, normally the will will include the words per capita or per stirpes.
Here's a link explaining those terms.

http://wills.about.com/od/estateplanning101/a/perstripvpercap.htm

If the will does not specify that the bequest is "per capita" or "per stirpes", then the particular state may have a presumption as to which method applies.

 

[allison443]

Generally, there is some language that includes the possibility that someone may predecease the testator (person writing the will). There's also state law -- some states will give a specific period of time, like 30 days, that a named beneficiary must live or he/she will be considered to have predeceased the testator.

Wording such as "per stirpes" and "per capita" can also determine how assets will be distributed. In the case where nothing is actually specified, I think you'd end up in court letting the court decide what it thinks the person meant to convey. The possibility then exists that the court can't decide at all, in which case it can throw the will out completely and treat all assets as if the person died without a will at all, in which case state law determines who gets the assets.

-Dorothy (who isn't a lawyer, either, but also stayed in a Holiday Inn several times, and also acted a personal representative to three estates)

Actually some states have a presumption of per stirpes or per capita distribution. If the will doesn't state which method, the state will use the presumed method. The will isn't thrown out.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

I dug up my Will and found the clause that pertains to A, B and C.

"in the event my said children should predecease me, then in that event I give, devise and bequeath all...property over which I have a power of appointment to A, B and C, in equal shares, share and share alike. In the event any of the aforementioned shall predecease me, then that persons share shall lapse and shall be distributed to the survivors."

So, if property is left to A, B and C, and C dies, then my estate should only go to A and B correct?

I know I have to make a new will, but in the meantime, as long as we all don't die, am I OK with the way the will is written?

 

[Ciao Mickey]

My main residence is in NJ.

 

[It'sWDW4me]

I dug up my Will and found the clause that pertains to A, B and C.

"in the event my said children should predecease me, then in that event I give, devise and bequeath all...property over which I have a power of appointment to A, B and C, in equal shares, share and share alike. In the event any of the aforementioned shall predecease me, then that persons share shall lapse and shall be distributed to the survivors."

So, if property is left to A, B and C, and C dies, then my estate should only go to A and B correct?

I know I have to make a new will, but in the meantime, as long as we all don't die, am I OK with the way the will is written?

I'm not a lawyer but it sure looks like, if C dies, the estate is split between A & B with nothing distributed to C's heirs/estate.

 

[czycropper]

I'm an Estate Administration Paralegal in NJ - the answer to your question is yes, your estate will be divided between A & B.

You should get a codicil made to your current will to clarify if it makes you feel better