Does anyone else having DVC booking issues?

[levisfam]

THose are both really GREAT ideas... Booking a "core" vacation and then only needing to shift a couple of days. This would work for us, especially since we generally know each year approximately when we will be traveling. I also like the idea of trying to call back, even if I am wait-listed for something else. You never know what will open up, right?

Thanks again everyone!!

 

[Chuck S]

wow! i don't know what to think as we are new owners &
trying to figure out the norms.



before becoming dvc members, i never even read here. once i did,
there were all kinds of problems covering many things but i also felt
they were interconnected. therefore, i have serious doubts toward the
current dvc management.

one warning sign, is how quick some of the abusers think nothing
about taunting owners, "go ahead & report us"! is their rally cry.
also looking @ pictures of the damages being done @ blt.
[the walls , and gross stains on the couches/carpets have nothing
to do with poor quality, rather poor guests]



one thing pointed out by my wife, "maybe you should
start organizing the owners"? [ something i have done in doing
community projects in the past]. one major problem i see,
why do dvc limited owners to only one transfer instead of
more? you think they would want owners to work/trade &
develop positive relationships to strengthen their "common
bonds" & disney interests? an outside source mentioned
changing the booking window for owners. i try to figure out how
that would help dvc sales/ owners & cannot see one benefit.

i like to respond toward your observation. this seem shocking to
me, because of your expectations and past experiences. very, very
shocking. however, from what i been reading here the last 6 mos.,
i am not surprised @ all. dvc, currently is not doing enough to protect
owners from rampant renting and/ or large groups of renters, esp.
for the most desirable times to used dvc rooms. as far as i am concern,
...if you are unable to get a room then the first non-renter ( name
on the revs that isn't the owner) should be forfeited.
at the current moment, i don't think that will happened. however, i
do think if you seek out the sources that are causing this, then
the "solutions" will be also evident. and that will provide leverage toward
finding a room. [ i think it is sad, that non-owners have rooms & you
don't]. maybe you could do a questionnaire? { i can't see why any owner
would not support you }

from my vantage point, i see the need for 2 new rules. first, the name/s
on the revs can only be the owner/s until the 3 mos. period. the second,
if an owner decides to change another name on a revs. then they
could only do it @ the 3 mos period, & must "forfeit" their previous
"holding position." thus protecting all owners.
i believe information & documentation are useful tools in deciding the
actions dvc should rely on. fyi, if one looks @ some of the renter
sites....noticed? none of the requests are for big resorts?

I do not think either of your solutions would be legal. The POS specifically gives owners the right to rent their points. In the current economy, many owners are doing just that, for below normal prices.

While I personally do not rent, and if I did, it would not be for a super low price, there really is nothing that DVC can do to prevent. Can you imagine DVC cancelling a reservation made for a renter, after having a confirmed resevation, and that renter showing up at the front desk only to be inform their room was bumped? Under the POS, DVC would be responsible for paying for a room for that party (or member.)

We also have the right to make reservations for unpaid guests, as I often do. Imagine if a honeymoon vacation I gave to friends was cancelled because they are not members.

Sorry, but your solutions are really unworkable from both a legal and practical standpoint.

 

[wdrl]

wow! i don't know what to think as we are new owners &
trying to figure out the norms.



before becoming dvc members, i never even read here. once i did,
there were all kinds of problems covering many things but i also felt
they were interconnected. therefore, i have serious doubts toward the
current dvc management.

one warning sign, is how quick some of the abusers think nothing
about taunting owners, "go ahead & report us"! is their rally cry.
also looking @ pictures of the damages being done @ blt.
[the walls , and gross stains on the couches/carpets have nothing
to do with poor quality, rather poor guests]



one thing pointed out by my wife, "maybe you should
start organizing the owners"? [ something i have done in doing
community projects in the past]. one major problem i see,
why do dvc limited owners to only one transfer instead of
more? you think they would want owners to work/trade &
develop positive relationships to strengthen their "common
bonds" & disney interests? an outside source mentioned
changing the booking window for owners. i try to figure out how
that would help dvc sales/ owners & cannot see one benefit.

i like to respond toward your observation. this seem shocking to
me, because of your expectations and past experiences. very, very
shocking. however, from what i been reading here the last 6 mos.,
i am not surprised @ all. dvc, currently is not doing enough to protect
owners from rampant renting and/ or large groups of renters, esp.
for the most desirable times to used dvc rooms. as far as i am concern,
...if you are unable to get a room then the first non-renter ( name
on the revs that isn't the owner) should be forfeited.

at the current moment, i don't think that will happened. however, i
do think if you seek out the sources that are causing this, then
the "solutions" will be also evident. and that will provide leverage toward
finding a room. [ i think it is sad, that non-owners have rooms & you
don't]. maybe you could do a questionnaire? { i can't see why any owner
would not support you }

from my vantage point, i see the need for 2 new rules. first, the name/s
on the revs can only be the owner/s until the 3 mos. period. the second,
if an owner decides to change another name on a revs. then they
could only do it @ the 3 mos period, & must "forfeit" their previous
"holding position." thus protecting all owners.

i believe information & documentation are useful tools in deciding the
actions dvc should rely on. fyi, if one looks @ some of the renter
sites....noticed? none of the requests are for big resorts?

I can understand the frustration some people have toward renters, but I don't think anything you are proposing about renters is workable. First, I don't subscribe to the theory that the lack of availability in early December is due to "rampant renting." It might be true, but I have never seen any objective data to support that conclusion. Second, it is somewhat difficult for DVC to identify a renter versus an owner. We have a family gathering planned for June 2011 and I may book villas for my sister's family and my brother. But since their last names are different than mine, it may appear that I am "renting" their accommodations. One big reason we joined DVC was so we could take family members with us to WDW. And third, the impact of increasing the numbers of transfers per UY might have the opposite affect from what you hope for. A member might solicit several points transfers for the very purpose of renting a large block of rooms.

I hope the OP is able to use waitlists to find some accommodation to their liking. And that they get exactly what they want for there next vacation. Unfortunately, the OP's situation reaffirms the belief that the DVC works best for those who can plan several months in advance.

 

[LouisianaDisneyFan]

Lil' Grumpy's response is quoted twice above, so I won't include it a third time in a row in my post... but I felt a need to respond on behalf of the rampant renters out there, as I am a reformed rampant renter!

We first lusted over DVC when Boardwalk was being built, but felt DVC was something we could never afford. Luckily, we were able to keep that dream alive for our family through renting points from considerate DVC members who were willing to share their Disney-joy with others during years when they could not personally make it down to visit the Mouse. We did still go on "regular" Disney trips too, staying in spots that included a huge variety in lodging... a tent at Fort Wilderness, rooms at Pop Century and Caribbean Beach, and a even a suite at Polynesian. But, some of our most relaxing and enjoyable vacations were at DVC properties. Would we have known this would be the case if we hadn't rented many times before purchase? No. Would I have been able to convince my very skeptical hubby before our first DVC purchase that it was a good idea if we hadn't had this opportunity to thoroughly try-before-we-buy? No. As it was, our family had many fantastic memories of their childhood years that revolved around DVC property long before we were actual members... and that is something I treasure.

Also, we enjoy sharing our Mouse experiences with family and friends and would be very upset if that was no longer a possibility. Currently, we have three upcoming trips "on the books"... and each of these stays involves multiple rooms. We've also shared our points with our daughter and her friends when we did not travel, and our son will be traveling with some of his friends this fall. I would be extremely angry if any of those reservations were jeopardized. The way I see it is that we paid to purchase the points, we pay the maintenance fees, and as owners we should continue to have the right to allow whoever we choose to utilize those points.

With that said, I do believe that Disney could do a better job of holding members (and their guests) responsible for any damages they cause to the property while staying in accommodations. Perhaps if we had more action in that area (charging ripped couches, stained carpet and gouged tabletops to the guests who actually caused the damage), then folks would be more careful with who was using their points.

 

[chalee94]

With that said, I do believe that Disney could do a better job of holding members (and their guests) responsible for any damages they cause to the property while staying in accommodations. Perhaps if we had more action in that area (charging ripped couches, stained carpet and gouged tabletops to the guests who actually caused the damage), then folks would be more careful with who was using their points.

i agree.

 

[Lynne M]

i like to respond toward your observation. this seem shocking to
me, because of your expectations and past experiences. very, very
shocking. however, from what i been reading here the last 6 mos.,
i am not surprised @ all. dvc, currently is not doing enough to protect
owners from rampant renting and/ or large groups of renters, esp.
for the most desirable times to used dvc rooms. as far as i am concern,
...if you are unable to get a room then the first non-renter ( name
on the revs that isn't the owner) should be forfeited.

I think perhaps you've misunderstood some of what you've read on these boards. Renters aren't taking availability away from you as an owner, any more than other owners do. And there's no evidence that there are 'large group of renters' stealing away the most desirable times. The latter doesn't really make sense, as renters can't do anything on their own. They can only use a reservation that an owner makes for them.

If I, as an owner, can't use my points, and want to rent them out to recoup my maintenance fees, the person I rent the reservation to is just taking a reservation i would have used. From the perspective of another owner, there's no difference in availability. If the renter wasn't taking up that villa, I would have been using it. Renters don't impact availability any more than owners do. It's a one-for-one replacement.

As others have said, making reservations for others is allowed under our contract. Whether I'm renting to a stranger to recoup my costs, or gifting a reservation to a friend or relative, there's nothing shady about DVC's allowing it. It's the way timeshares work.

And there's nothing nefarious about what the OP has run into. It's simple supply-and-demand. Because the point costs are low for most of December, the weather is nice, the crowds aren't too bad, and all the Christmas stuff is going on, the early part of December is hugely popular with members. If anything, I'd guess there's less renting going on during early December, just because the owners have grabbed up all of the reservations for themselves. Unless a renter really understands DVC and knows to start working with an owner a year in advance, they're not going to have much luck getting anything in December.

 

[crisi]

Also, there is no evidence renters treat rooms any differently than owners - although both groups should be held more accountable for room damage.

There would be changes I'd like to see regarding members vs. non-members (and that includes my own guests). I'd like members granted priority on room requests (not booking categories). And I think if Disney wanted to put a dent in renting, they'd make the blue member card a requirement for getting the dining plan - but that's their business case and no skin off my back either way.

To the OP, MANY members are looking for room bargains. So if you are looking for a BWV standard view room - or any other value room, it really makes sense to book as soon as possible - they are often booked completely during the home resort window. Studios often go first for the same reason. DVC has been designed so that it should be booked completely all the time - the exception being a few rooms held back for maintenance. That means that popular rooms are simply going to book faster - and the rooms you are looking for are popular.

 

[Lil' Grumpy]

....amazing & disbelief .., were the 2 most common reactions to
some of the problems i have been reading. and while there is
the possibility of certain things being misunderstood, it is the
overall implication that has my ongoing attention.


fyi., something is very wrong. when we met with the guide,
this { booking} was an issue i went over & over,
covering different angles. nor do we think he was misleading
us...,

from his explanation, over & over, his response/s were all the same.
first, if one ever booked @ their home resort, "you" will never
have a problem getting what you want. secondly, the way/s the
system is design, "you" will always have alternatives , "rooms"
to book, no matter "whenever" you decide to go. [ again &
again , he went on to explain how this (dvc) was designed to ensure
this. ] . i believe him & still do.



why not then? we never knew how many are utilizing renting as their
primary lodging until i started reading here. [ nor do i
think every renter is "behind" the damages but logically, it
is unlikely owners, due + dues , the very nature of having
an active "interest." ]

i don't think renters make-up all of the problems facing owners.
nor do i think all renting is bad. i just think it is something
that should not interfere with owners. one of the biggest "red"
flag was the secret way to save thousands @ top notch disney
properties.., on "the today show."



another concern that popped up,

"working the magic. " one observation when speaking with those
working @ dvc... is the fact they are owners themselves. there
have been many reporting guides helping them & getting revs.
that no one else could. wonder if anyone in dvc is monitoring
these "perks" ? [ owners working dvc for their benefits?]



i think the above effected us, based on some of the comments we
heard from m.s.. , & it is why i think owners should consider their
own "watchdog" group. that & some of the dvc workers
who are owners, are commenting here. also the asinine remarks i &
other owners have received. exactly "why" isn't dvc holding those
abusing dvc property responsible? together, i think they are telling
the real story.

 

[Chuck S]

from his explanation, over & over, his response/s were all the same.
first, if one ever booked @ their home resort, "you" will never
have a problem getting what you want. secondly, the way/s the
system is design, "you" will always have alternatives , "rooms"
to book, no matter "whenever" you decide to go. [ again &
again , he went on to explain how this (dvc) was designed to ensure
this. ] . i believe him & still do.



why not then? we never knew how many are utilizing renting as their
primary lodging until i started reading here. [ nor do i
think every renter is "behind" the damages but logically, it
is unlikely owners, due + dues , the very nature of having
an active "interest." ]

i don't think renters make-up all of the problems facing owners.
nor do i think all renting is bad. i just think it is something
that should not interfere with owners. one of the biggest "red"
flag was the secret way to save thousands @ top notch disney
properties.., on "the today show."



another concern that popped up,

"working the magic. " one observation when speaking with those
working @ dvc... is the fact they are owners themselves. there
have been many reporting guides helping them & getting revs.
that no one else could. wonder if anyone in dvc is monitoring
these "perks" ? [ owners working dvc for their benefits?]



i think the above effected us, based on some of the comments we
heard from m.s.. , & it is why i think owners should consider their
own "watchdog" group. that & some of the dvc workers
who are owners, are commenting here. also the asinine remarks i &
other owners have received. exactly "why" isn't dvc holding those
abusing dvc property responsible? together, i think they are telling
the real story.

What you may or may not have been told by your guide is irrelevant. Only the written documentation has any enforceable provisions. Renting is allowed by those documents. We are allowed to book rooms for non-Members, just as if they were our own stays. If you feel that DVC Member Services, or guides, have somehow created special booking rules for cast members outside the rules allowed, then you are free to file a complaint with the state of Florida timeshare board. They take their timeshare enforcement seriously.

Sorry, if I don't take advantage of the 11 month booking window, and right at the 11 month booking window, for my home resort, there could be problems booking a reservation, as they are based upon availability. It has nothing to guides that may be able to access undeclared/developers point inventory...as those rooms would not be available to owners anyway. It also has nothing to do with renters, as the point they use have to come from fellow owners, and we are allowed to rent.

If there is a problem booking, it is because the person waited too long and did not book their home resort at 11 months.

Remember, as more small contracts come online (and they are selling 100 point contracts to new members at select resorts) there will be more owners, thus more demand for any one particular day...giving credence to the philosophy of buy where you want to stay and book early!

 

[chalee94]

first, if one ever booked @ their home resort, "you" will never have a problem getting what you want.

if you book your home resort at 11 months out, you will (almost) never have a problem getting what you want.

if you want to book your home resort at 6 months out (or 1 week out), you might find yourself in line behind hundreds of other DVC owners who called and booked a room before you did. that's how it works.

secondly, the way/s the
system is design, "you" will always have alternatives , "rooms"
to book, no matter "whenever" you decide to go. [ again &
again , he went on to explain how this (dvc) was designed to ensure
this. ]

simply not true. SSR, OKW and AKV are pretty large resorts but there are hundreds of thousands of DVC owners who are calling to make reservations.

simplify DVC to 1 room owned by 50 people - each with enough pts to book 1 week (with the room taken out of service 2 weeks per year for maintenance). the system is designed so that there is a week for every owner. but jan and feb are not very popular so none of the 50 book those 8 weeks...that would mean that there might only be 42 weeks left in the year for those 50 owners to fight over - someone is going to get left out. the same is true with DVC - if rooms sit empty during less busy periods, then some owners are going to wind up losing pts as they expire unused...

 

[wildernessDad]

Lil' Grumpy, I don't rent, but I have made a reservation in a friend or family member's name so they could vacation with us. I'm using my points legally. Your idea of canceling their reservation because another member needs a room is ridiculous.

And I fully expect to have a problem booking my home resort of VWL during the first part of December, if I don't book it soon enough. There are no guarantees that one can book their home resort whenever they want. But the best way to help insure that you can get what you want is to book it as soon as the booking window opens up. If one cannot book far enough in advance to secure a room, especially at their home resort, then one should not be a member of DVC.

 

[Lynne M]

fyi., something is very wrong. when we met with the guide,
this { booking} was an issue i went over & over,
covering different angles. nor do we think he was misleading
us...,

from his explanation, over & over, his response/s were all the same.
first, if one ever booked @ their home resort, "you" will never
have a problem getting what you want. secondly, the way/s the
system is design, "you" will always have alternatives , "rooms"
to book, no matter "whenever" you decide to go. [ again &
again , he went on to explain how this (dvc) was designed to ensure
this. ] . i believe him & still do.

As this is a mathematical impossibility, one of three things had to have happened here. You misunderstood the guide, or the guide failed to discuss the booking windows with you, or the guide lied to you. There is simply no way for that to work as described. There are far more DVC members than there are DVC rooms on property. If enough members call before you do to reserve a specific date, that all DVC villas are booked for that date, you're not going to find a room. That's why it's important for members to understand the booking windows, and to call for reservations in a timely manner.

i don't think renters make-up all of the problems facing owners.
nor do i think all renting is bad. i just think it is something
that should not interfere with owners. one of the biggest "red"
flag was the secret way to save thousands @ top notch disney
properties.., on "the today show."

Renting does not interfere with owners' reservations. All a rental reservation is, is a reservation made by an owner for someone else. If you rent a reservation to someone else, it doesn't interfere with availability for me any more than it would if you made a reservation for yourself.

 

[kpasta]

I have been a member since 1994 and recently have the same problems with reservations. I have been told they save choice dates,resorts for new paying customers.
Our dues go up every year, who is enjoying our membership.

 

[Lynne M]

I have been told they save choice dates,resorts for new paying customers.

Told by whom?

 

[Chuck S]

I have been a member since 1994 and recently have the same problems with reservations. I have been told they save choice dates,resorts for new paying customers.
Our dues go up every year, who is enjoying our membership.

Whoever told you that is mistaken. They can not "hold" DVC inventory for "new" customers. If you truly feel this is the case, contact DVC and the Florida timeshare board.

DVD/Disney still owns a large chunk of the new resorts (undeclared inventory), they are not fully sold to members. They can use those rooms however they wish, including using them to book "new" DVC members, if they make their purchase contigent upon that. Usually they are used for cash rentals, and promotional stays, like contests and families from Home Makeover. It is a seperate inventory of rooms from those available to DVC Members. Or they can use declared inventory using ther stash of Developers Points. Developers Points previously were used as a promotion of matching points for new customers when they purchased into a resort that had not opened.

 

[Kmango]

To the OP, MANY members are looking for room bargains. So if you are looking for a BWV standard view room - or any other value room, it really makes sense to book as soon as possible - they are often booked completely during the home resort window. Studios often go first for the same reason. DVC has been designed so that it should be booked completely all the time - the exception being a few rooms held back for maintenance. That means that popular rooms are simply going to book faster - and the rooms you are looking for are popular.

This is exactly right. If one wanted to attribute the scarcity of lower-point accommodations to anything, it's the lower buy-ins Disney has been allowing over time, resulting in a large number of people who must economize their points (especially after the reallocations) to stay a reasonable length of time. When DVC started, a 300 point (or so) buy-in was common. Now, it's a third of that. That's a lot of folks competing for the same low-point rooms.

 

[DVC Mike]

if you book your home resort at 11 months out, you will (almost) never have a problem getting what you want.

That's what I do, and I've never been disappointed (yet...)

 

[disneynutz]

Buy where you love to stay so you have the 11 month advantage and book at 11 months. Anything less than 11 months and you run the risk of being disappointed.

As additional members are being added, booking at 7 months or less or booking at 11 months at a non-sold out resort will become more difficult, guaranteed.

Bill

 

[daisygirl902]

Wow reading though this thread makes me feel doubly as lucky for the reservations I have been able to snag lately...

Not only was I able to book 2 standard view studios at the 7 month mark at BWV (in late September), but I also got a 1 night reservation at 5 months for a 1 bdrm standard at BWV for Sept...

Also - I just came back for a trip that I booked with only 18 days notice (Savannah Studio at Jambo)...and for that last trip, at 18 days out I had my choice of OKW, SS, or AKV!!

I am surprised to hear that at any point August has been totally sold out - although December I can understand...based on many months of research prior to buying I was aware that December is extremely busy for DVC (luckily I don't choose to go to Florida in December - whew!)

 

[wdwfan1]

We have been members for 3 years and are about to take our 5th trip. We always book at least 6 months ahead, but are generally not able to know our vacation schedules prior to 6 months. So that is the earliest we can book.

That being said, I have never ONCE been able to get a reservation that I would like (my first choice) in all 5 reservations! I have always had to either 1. switch to a different resort (one that always costs more points) 2. upgrade to a larger room (which costs you more points) 3. upgrade to a room with a "preferred view" (which costs more points) 4. change my travel dates (which can costs more points).. catch my drift here??? One time we even had to switch hotels during our stay because there was not one hotel that could accomodate us for one full week. We have been wait listed every single time for the hotel of our choice, but have not once gotten our wait list request.



And I promise you, we only travel during NON peak or holiday seasons. We only travel in late August or in the winter.

The final straw for us was today (June 16th) when I called to book a 7 night reservation for December 3rd (almost 6 months away). I was told that there is not one single studio, one bedroom or 2 bedroom available at any DVC resort in Orlando. We can't even switch hotels or anything. There is literally NOTHING available for 4 of the 7 nights! I even tried changing my dates a little and still NOTHING. And remind you.. Oddly enough, the first week of December in Orlando is considered (with DVC) the lowest season... So now we can't go at all

I am sure things would be different for us if we were able to book really far ahead, but we just can't.

I know that 6 months out booking is cutting it close, but it's not THAT close, geesh. For the couple of other people that we know with DVC, they NEVER seem to have the troubles that we do.. They either get their first choice or their wiat list... What's up with that? I've always been a member in good standing, etc.

So I'm surious if anyone else has had these issues? Or better yet, some advice on how to handle this situation?

I tried to book that week at the nine month window. I was not able to get anything for that weekat either of my home resorts. I got 5 days in the next week and I am still waitlisted. While this is not a busy season for Disney in general, it is a busy season for DVC. Members like to take advantage of the low points and all the Christmas activities.

Hope you get something!