Do YOU wear Confederate apparel ?

[Tiziminchac]

Great post Golf4food. I'm a southerner and I have no problems with symbols of the Confederacy. Would I wear a confederate flag on my clothing? No, but that's a fashion preference. If other people want to that's fine with me. Their prerogative. I think people feel so strongly about the confederate flag because it has been hijacked by hate groups. But for some it still stands as a piece of their heritage. Wasn't it the American stars and stripes that flew over all of the slave states for 80 years or so before the war?

 

[FroggyinArk]

you guys, its not a hate suymbol, nor a slave symbol. i wear th em mainly because 2/3 of the doorags available have some sort of them on it.
i'm looking at three harley rags on my desk,, all have the flag on them at some point.
i also have 3 or 4 american flag ones, and ya know tiz is right,, that flag flew over a lot more slave traders ships than the stars and bars did. and yes as my dw pointed out earlier in this thread, our other carpenter wears a confederate flag rag on occasion, and hes a black guy,, we get some strange looks..
we also both wear red bandanas, blue bandanas, black bandanas,yet niether one is member of any of hte gangs assosiated with those colors . we both know people that are, and have been told we shouldnt be wearin their colors,, and we pointed out that the bandana was a cowboy fashion statement and tool long before they claimed it as thier color...
should i not wear a shirt with a symbol on it because someone somewhere might be offended? just how pc does the world have to be before some one points out,, its a not always an intentional affrontation for me to wear clothing that reflects my heritage any more than it is someone else to wear african robes, a union jack, a kilt, a star of david, a nazi swaztika( ok that might be pushing it a little) or a turban? how is my wearing a small symbol of the consolidation of a group of states that i have proudly lived in all my life,, ( we are less than 100 milesfrom several very historic civil war sites, and yeah i have participated in both old west and civil war reinactments) a bad thing?
do i support the kkk?
NO I DO NOT.
am i a racist?
NO I AM NOT
do i hate the gay and lesbian community?
NO I DO NOT.( just ask rick..lol)
do my long hair andbeard, along with my bikers doorags make me some sort of outlaw drughead gang member?
NO THEY DO NOT
does the fact that i drink and smoke make me a criminal?
NO IT DOES NOT.

So how the heck can someone that does not know ME judge me by what i wear? sight unseen? thats like reading a book by looking at the dust jacket and one review folks. it aint right.

no i do not

 

[Charade]

No I don't and wouldn't. The USA has ONE flag.

Two brothers on their way
Two brothers on their way
Two brothers on their way
One wore blue
And one wore grey

One wore blue and one wore grey
As they marched along the way
A fife and drum began to play
All on a beautiful morning

One was gentle, one was kind
One was gentle, one was kind
One came home, one stayed behind
A cannonball don't pay no mind

A cannonball don't pay no mind
Though you're gentle or you're kind
It don't think of the folks behind
All on a beautiful morning

Two girls waiting by the railroad track
Two girls waiting by the railroad track
For their darlings to come back
One wore blue, and one wore black

One wore blue, and one wore black
Waiting by the railroad track
For their darlings to come back
All on a beautiful morning

One wore blue, and one wore black
Waiting by the railroad track
For their darlings to come back
All on a beautiful morning

All on a beautiful morning

 

[bsmcneil]

I live in the South - always have. And frankly I am ashamed when anyone wears something with the confederate flag on it. Wanna talk about heritage? It's anti-American, literally. Regardless of your beliefs on slavery, the history and reasons of the Civil War, segregation and whether or not you see yourself as racist - the history is that the South fought the United States of America and any relic that calls back on the history of that and supports it is supporting a notion AGAINST the United States of America. I get so angry when I see people with confederate bumper stickers AND US flags/Support our troops. Where was the support for the US 150 years ago? From my experience, it's all been a way to support a history of white dominance - the good ol boy system and polite Southerners, etc. Frankly, it's the only flag I have no problem burning.

 

[Golf4food]

I live in the South - always have. And frankly I am ashamed when anyone wears something with the confederate flag on it. Wanna talk about heritage? It's anti-American, literally. Regardless of your beliefs on slavery, the history and reasons of the Civil War, segregation and whether or not you see yourself as racist - the history is that the South fought the United States of America and any relic that calls back on the history of that and supports it is supporting a notion AGAINST the United States of America. I get so angry when I see people with confederate bumper stickers AND US flags/Support our troops. Where was the support for the US 150 years ago? From my experience, it's all been a way to support a history of white dominance - the good ol boy system and polite Southerners, etc. Frankly, it's the only flag I have no problem burning.

The Confederacy saw itself as the true defenders of the Constitution. Nowhere in the Constitution was a state - which had voluntarily joined the Union to begin with after the Revolution against England - prevented from leaving the Union if they desired. When the Federal government kept increasing its power, against the will of the people in most Southern states (and some northern states), the Southerns said "Enough is enough." and they excercised their right to leave the Union, which was moving away from the ideals on which the nation was founded, and then form a government of their own that would go back to the way the country was after the Revolution.

In effect, depending on your point of view, the Confederates were being better "Americans" at the time than the Northerners were. You make your above statement after 150 years of history has passed, but at the time the Civil War broke out, the mindset in America was much different. Some of the governmental powers we now accept as normal were very much scandalous back in the 1850s and there were many people opposed to them in every way. You can claim to accept America now, but your tune might have been different in 1856 instead of 2006.

 

[Golf4food]

No I don't and wouldn't. The USA has ONE flag.

So can we ban all Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Hatian, Canadian, Japanese, Chinese, German, English, et al flags too while we're at it? They aren't American flags either...

 

[cardaway]

That was really a wonderful post.

Really? Looked like a perfect example of doing exactly what he was accusing others of doing to me.

Thanks to those who are completely disregarding the history surrounding the flag and prefer to refer to those who take pride in a little bit of their local heritage as rednecks.

You're right, there are some of those down in the south who tote the flag around as a symbol of hate, but by far and away the majority recognise it as a symbol of their heritage - a heritage that is in many ways a painful one. The South was destroyed by the Civil War and took a very long time to recover, and even as a *gasp* foreigner (in the literal sense), [/b]I don't appreciate the condescending attitudes of some. It smacks of ignorance[/b].

The Civil War is still very much a part of the South. There are markers everywhere, and battlefields galore. It is actually very interesting, especially for an outsider. Stereotyping people who wield any of the Confederate flags as being buck-toothed hillbillies is disingenuous. For many it is a source of remembrance of their history, not just a prelude to cross-burning. Before I left my home country, I had the image of the confederate flag being the domain of rednecks too, but living in the South has taught me that such stereotyping is false and intellectually dishonest.

All I see in this thread are well thought out opinions of what they see as people embracing a very distasteful piece of history.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Just a question---do these same people who wouldn't associate themselves with the Confederate Flag...did none of you watch the Dukes of Hazzard growing up?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

If someone is, in your words, "dumb enough" to wear a shirt they know full well is hurtful and offensive, a shirt that symbolizes violence and hatred, they ought to be ready for the fallout. I don't know that I'd personally trip someone, but you can bet that my spaghetti would end up all over that shirt.
.

How patriotic of you.

 

[CheshireVal]

All I see in this thread are well thought out opinions of what they see as people embracing a very distasteful piece of history.

Slavery is "distasteful," yes. But I don't think the title of this thread was "Do you own slaves?"

What's happening here is that people are blindly and falsely associating a piece of fabric (along with the Civil War itself) with slavery and oppression when there's really just a lot more to it than that.

 

[auntpolly]

Slavery is "distasteful," yes. But I don't think the title of this thread was "Do you own slaves?"

What's happening here is that people are blindly and falsely associating a piece of fabric (along with the Civil War itself) with slavery and oppression when there's really just a lot more to it than that.

Blindly? I just don't get how you can say that. Symbols are very powerful things, obviously. I think it's better just to face up to the past than to try to distance ourselves the realities. None of us were there -- all of our anscestors have done things to be ashamed of -- can't we just accept what happened, this not so bright part of our history, accept it as history, and use it as a memorial and a lesson (not as a fashion statement ) ?

 

[cardaway]

Slavery is "distasteful," yes. But I don't think the title of this thread was "Do you own slaves?"

What's happening here is that people are blindly and falsely associating a piece of fabric (along with the Civil War itself) with slavery and oppression when there's really just a lot more to it than that.

Where has anybody asked if anybody, or their ancestors, owned slaves?

I believe people realize there is more to it than that. Not only are you asking people to ignore the elephant in the room by saying "more to it than that" but some people don't agree with the rest either.

Just as there is Southern pride for more than just the slavery aspect, there is distaste for what the "South" represented beyond slavery.

 

[MUFFYCAT]

it's your body. you can wear anything you want.

 

[Charade]

So can we ban all Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Hatian, Canadian, Japanese, Chinese, German, English, et al flags too while we're at it? They aren't American flags either...

Those flags don't represent the USA, neither does the Confederate flag. There's nothing wrong with displaying the flag of your homeland but since the South is once again part of the USA, their flag should be the same as the rest of ours.

What is the point of keeping the Confederate flag flying or to decorate your stuff or person with images of it?

The best part of being an American is the freedom to do what you want (to express yourself) but that freedom allows me to call people buttheads if I so choose.

 

[cardaway]

Just a question---do these same people who wouldn't associate themselves with the Confederate Flag...did none of you watch the Dukes of Hazzard growing up?

Watched it, yes. Wanted to be anything like them, no.

The same goes for listening to Lynyrd Skynyrd.

 

[va32h]

the history is that the South fought the United States of America and any relic that calls back on the history of that and supports it is supporting a notion AGAINST the United States of America.

The notion of being an American is a modern one. This is one of the hardest things for contemporary Americans to understand - we see our nation as one entity.

In the mid-18th century, people regarded themselves as Virginians, Carolinians, Rhode Islanders, Pennsylvanians, etc. There was no national identity. It really is difficult for our mobile society to understand that kind of loyalty to a place. But in the 19th century, you were born somewhere, you died there. You never left your home state, probably not even your home town. Remember too, "The United States of America" was only 60-70 years old when the conflicts that led to the Civil War started.

Robert E. Lee was originally offered the command of the United States Army. He turned it down, because he could not bear to take up arms against his home - Virginia, not the Confederacy, not the US. You really have to put yourself in the mindset of a person from that era.

Look, I'm not sorry that the United States won the Civil War. Our nation is best served by being exactly that - one, united nation.

But tell me why the southern secession is any different, politically, than the American Revolution?

You have a group of citizens who are unhappy with their government, and conclude that it is within their rights to separate and form their own country.

That is what the Civil War boils down to. A group of states said "we don't want to be a part of the US anymore", and the US government said "too bad, you don't have that choice". And they fought.

And that is exactly what Jefferson et al said in 1776 - "we don't want to be a part of England anymore", and England said "too bad, you don't have that choice" and they fought.

Lincoln himself had great respect for the politicians and military leaders of the Confederacy. When he knew the North had won the war, he asked the White House musicians to play "Dixie" in honor of the South.

If Lincoln did not consider those men traitors, I certainly won't question his judgement.

 

[auntpolly]

Let's hope we've all got a little more enlightened since the Dukes of Hazzard era .

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Watched it, yes. Wanted to be anything like them, no.

The same goes for listening to Lynyrd Skynyrd.

So how can one take pleasure in the programming, but then be vehemently against something.


I certainly wouldn't watch a comedy about KKK members. IF the flag is so distasteful, why would anyone watch or listen to anything that has the flag represented in any capacity?

After all--Bo and Luke Duke must represent the south and everything negative about it?

 

[mrsltg]

I live in the South - always have. And frankly I am ashamed when anyone wears something with the confederate flag on it. Wanna talk about heritage? It's anti-American, literally. Regardless of your beliefs on slavery, the history and reasons of the Civil War, segregation and whether or not you see yourself as racist - the history is that the South fought the United States of America and any relic that calls back on the history of that and supports it is supporting a notion AGAINST the United States of America. I get so angry when I see people with confederate bumper stickers AND US flags/Support our troops. Where was the support for the US 150 years ago? From my experience, it's all been a way to support a history of white dominance - the good ol boy system and polite Southerners, etc. Frankly, it's the only flag I have no problem burning.

You are clearly misinformed. The Confederacy saw itself as defending the Consitution. You want anti-American? How about a President that had an entire state legislature put in jail so they couldn't vote to secede and so that another would be afraid to vote (MD and NJ). How about a President who demanded the war be as bloody as possible so as to teach the southerners not try this again. How about a President who wanted to ship all the "negros" back to Africa - ahhhh yes, one nation indeed. The man needed a Prozac for his well noted depression, not a military at his command.

Further, I guess I must have missed the answer from those Christians who would never wear the Confederate flag and don't support it. Do you wear a cross? Do you display one in your home? Do you know what hatred that cross has inspired? Do you know how many people have died because of it's misuse? It, too, is a symbol that has been perverted over the last 2000 years. It, too, has been co-opted by people with hateful purposes. I still have it in my home and occassionally wear it, though. Does that mean I want to trample lesser known religions out of existence? Nope. Does that mean I hate Muslims? Nope. Does that make me xenophopic? Nope. It's a symbol. I know what it means to me. Just like I know what the Confederate Flag means. It's not evil and it doesn't mean that black people should be picking cotton in my suburban Virginia backyard. It's simply a symbol.

 

[auntpolly]

If Lincoln did not consider those men traitors, I certainly won't question his judgement.

Lincoln wanted to try to heal the wounds and restore the union. He didn't picture Lee running around town with a confederate flag on the rear window of his pickup truck (something I'm sure Lee wouldn't have done.)