Do You think DISNEY has gone down hlll the last few years?

[brunette8706]

Hi IndianaRoseLee-

Oh thanks for the well wiishes. Yes the fire alarm scared the daylights out of me!! Sheesh.

PS - Do you or anyone here know how to post pictures on this forum? LOL

Smidgy-

Hi! Thank you so much for your support. I try not to be too argumentative but geez, enough is enough, LOL! Thanks again! Yes, we're running off to Kimono's then EPCOT! We had to change reservations. I know the iinternet is going to go offline and I'm not about to pay $30.00 for 3 days service. Two is enough! LOL!

PM me with any questions. I'll probably log back on Saturday or Sunday! Have wonderful and "magical" day everyone!

Brunette

 

[CTDisneyfan816]

Those "turkey legs" taste more like ham to me.

 

[Tiger926]

Hi IndianaRoseLee-

Oh thanks for the well wiishes. Yes the fire alarm scared the daylights out of me!! Sheesh.

PS - Do you or anyone here know how to post pictures on this forum? LOL

Smidgy-

Hi! Thank you so much for your support. I try not to be too argumentative but geez, enough is enough, LOL! Thanks again! Yes, we're running off to Kimono's then EPCOT! We had to change reservations. I know the iinternet is going to go offline and I'm not about to pay $30.00 for 3 days service. Two is enough! LOL!

PM me with any questions. I'll probably log back on Saturday or Sunday! Have wonderful and "magical" day everyone!

Brunette

Have fun @ WDW! Enjoy your dinner, and watching Illuminations tonight!

Tiger

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

no clue on pictures.

 

[luckyprincess]

It is not about being negative or wearing rose glasses but expectations. For example I saw many comments about Mousekeeping which really screamed expectations. People claimed that mousekeeping always kept their room clean, but did not go above and beyond that was expected by them at Deluxe hotel. What exactly was expected is a mistery for me, tell me it is not high expectations. Below par service is when you know exactly what is par anyway. Many people mistake "above and beyond" with "par" and this is where negative comments take place. Also reading about real complain is useful but general ones not so much. JMO.

I wasn't referencing you when I said beating the tired drum, hope you didn't think so! I like your posts even when we disagree

I agree that there are people that don't have realistic expectations (I work in a private dining club in an elite area...believe me I could tell you stories!) and those posts are not helpful AT ALL. I was talking more about people relaying less than satisfactory or less than actual par problems and I see we agree on that being a good thing. I think the problem really comes in when people confuse having realistic expectations with lowering your expectations to a new subpar reality. What I mean is, we shouldn't say that the reality is that Disney has cut back on CMs and the parks aren't cleaned as often as they used to be....but that is the new reality so let's just accept that as average now.

Did that make sense? Average shouldn't be a sliding scale - if I've come to expect one thing than I will continue to expect that if I'm paying the same, you know what I mean?

 

[luckyprincess]

Hi IndianaRoseLee-

Oh thanks for the well wiishes. Yes the fire alarm scared the daylights out of me!! Sheesh.

PS - Do you or anyone here know how to post pictures on this forum? LOL


Brunette

Glad you're having a great time (except for the fire alarm - but hey, at least you know it works!) To post a pic, first upload it to flickr or snapfish and get the url for it. Then, go up to the menu above this area when you post and you'll see a little pic of a mountain range - it's the 3rd symbol from the right on the bottom row. It will pop up with a spot to put the url. Erase what's in the little box, then paste your url. Then preview. That should work!

 

[KellyNY]

I wasn't referencing you when I said beating the tired drum, hope you didn't think so! I like your posts even when we disagree

I agree that there are people that don't have realistic expectations (I work in a private dining club in an elite area...believe me I could tell you stories!) and those posts are not helpful AT ALL. I was talking more about people relaying less than satisfactory or less than actual par problems and I see we agree on that being a good thing. I think the problem really comes in when people confuse having realistic expectations with lowering your expectations to a new subpar reality. What I mean is, we shouldn't say that the reality is that Disney has cut back on CMs and the parks aren't cleaned as often as they used to be....but that is the new reality so let's just accept that as average now.

Did that make sense? Average shouldn't be a sliding scale - if I've come to expect one thing than I will continue to expect that if I'm paying the same, you know what I mean?

I know you were not refering to me, I also enjoy your posts and good conversation, we do not have to agree, infact hearing different opinions enriches discussion.
I do not know if people lowering expectations to meet new reality, be honest for 10 years I see same service, nothing changed. I accept price increase as I accept it in real world(rent, gas, food, airline), I do not think it is extreme increase anyway. I did have some less par experiences but everything was fixed very fast and nothing really to report here. CMs as nice as ever and it is still clean there. This is my opinion based on my experience, not that it is only opinion or fact but simply my opinion. I can't wait to see your report. I know you were there very long time ago and cannot really compare so basically it will be your first time and it is always interesting to read a newbie(OK you are sort of newbie) report esp. when you read all those threads. BTW, they did not cut CMs from parks, only from office, so it should be as clean as ever.

 

[disneyfan55]

I know you were not refering to me, I also enjoy your posts and good conversation, we do not have to agree, infact hearing different opinions enriches discussion.
I do not know if people lowering expectations to meet new reality, be honest for 10 years I see same service, nothing changed. I accept price increase as I accept it in real world(rent, gas, food, airline), I do not think it is extreme increase anyway. I did have some less par experiences but everything was fixed very fast and nothing really to report here. CMs as nice as ever and it is still clean there. This is my opinion based on my experience, not that it is only opinion or fact but simply my opinion. I can't wait to see your report. I know you were there very long time ago and cannot really compare so basically it will be your first time and it is always interesting to read a newbie(OK you are sort of newbie) report esp. when you read all those threads. BTW, they did not cut CMs from parks, only from office, so it should be as clean as ever.

I have been visiting WDW since the mid 70s and yes, I agree with you that the past 10 years not that much change. The major changes for me was a gradual lessening of cleanliness, customer service and upkeep. I don't know if the subject of projects left incompleted and rundown has been mentioned in the thread but that makes for eyesores as well (River Country and Discovery Island -I know it's a santuary now but the buildings are really a mess - left to rot) and the unfinished portions of POP. These also take away from the beautifully upkept resort for the first 10-20 years of my visits.

 

[bicker]

If guest comming to Disney he already spends so the only guest who does not spend is no guest at all.

True, but nothing in life is black-and-white. Everything is proportional. The guest that spends nothing is at one extreme, and the guest that throws hundreds around is at the other extreme, and every spot in-between is occupied by guests. And so you can expect the import of a consumer's desire will be related to where that consumer stands on that scale.

Deep discounts are highly seeked by every guest in my opinion but even going with 40% discount does not mean not spending on anything else, in fact many people use saved money for TS, tours and gifts. I am sure that Disney strategies are far more complex when it comes to additions and replacements. JMO.

Of course. It is the overall amount of profit contribution that matters. So even if a consumer doesn't "count" much due to their spending on their hotel, they may indeed "count" a great deal based on how much they spend on souvenirs. And in the end, Disney can't custom-tailor their marketing for each and every guest (though they do a better job in that regard than practically anyone else). Instead, they break us into segments based on demographic and other characteristics, and regard guests within a segment the same.

And indeed, talking about this sort of thing focusing only on Disney is a mistake. This is the way all major consumer-facing service providers work.

 

[bicker]

First, if you consider my words to you a "personal attack" or at the very least responding in kind to the condescention you have shown me and others, your words have no merit.

I haven't cast any aspersions on you personally. You have cast aspersions on me personally, rather than just commenting on my ideas.

Please stop with personal attacks.

Second, I, nor anyone else, has suggested that Disney should not make a profit.

It isn't about whether or not Disney should make a profit, but whether or not Disney should make as much profit as they legally can, while ensuring safety and security. That is their mandate. That is what they're supposed to be doing. If they fail to do that, then they'll be punished by their owners.

There is a point however, where the number one goal of a corporation should not be entirely about profit.

That's simply not true. Indeed, a corporation that routinely places other considerations (other than the law, safety or security) above the best long-term financial interests of its owners deserves to be sued out of existence. Remember Enron?

For example after the earth quake in Haiti...

When we have a catastrope that Disney is making money off of, then let's chat about that then. What you're referring to are laws against price-gouging in case of emergency. I think part of the problem is that some consumers assumed that charging what something is worth, what buyers are willing to pay, is always wrong, when in reality it is only wrong in case of emergency, when the value of something skyrockets specifically due to the crisis. So here we see the foundation for a lot of the unfounded expectations held by consumers

Now Disney can charge enormous fees for their "product" that does not necessarly mean it's a good business practice.

Either it is or it isn't, based on the best forecast of how it affects long-term shareholder value. But clearly, that's the yardstick - not whether a consumer likes it or not.

What I do have an issue with, is the suggestion that somehow my feelings and other's are irrelavent.

Feelings are never irrelevant, in general. They may, however, be irrelevant in the context of running a successful business.

While yours, regardless of what criteria they are based on, are justified on your own point of view.

We're not even talking about my feelings. Most of what we're talking about is the way business works. The fact that I'm not dissatisfied in the way you are is just as meaningless. Neither of us matter much, but rather what matters is how things look when you put us all together. If Disney enjoys loads of popularity and demand, then they're doing things right. Even if some of us doesn't like it, as long as enough others do, that's what matters.

Contrary to your statements you have presented no more "facts" than anyone else.

On the contrary, I, and others in this thread, have presented loads of facts. Facts about how businesses really operate, combined with info about Disney's performance. Yet, you've presented no facts refuting that Disney's been increasingly successful doing what they're supposed to be doing over the years.

Further, just because I take issue with certain things doesn't make it inappropriate to state them.

I never said it was inappropriate for you to state your perspectives.

 

[flicx]

It isn't about whether or not Disney should make a profit, but whether or not Disney should make as much profit as they legally can, while ensuring safety and security. That is their mandate. That is what they're supposed to be doing. If they fail to do that, then they'll be punished by their owners.

That's simply not true. Indeed, a corporation that routinely places other considerations (other than the law, safety or security) above the best long-term financial interests of its owners deserves to be sued out of existence. Remember Enron?

I did not know there was a set amount a company couldn't charge legally.So I guess disney shouldn't practice businees ethics?Some would call what you just described as greed! Exactly what will ultimately ruin this company if not soon stopped!

 

[Donut23]

I believe the original theme of this thread has been answered. Obviously DIS people have noticed a change in standards at Disney parks.

The best example I can give is THIS thread and other like it which surface now and again.

I discovered the DIS when working as a Travel Agent --- and that was over 15 years ago. I have been an avid "lurker", no RABID "lurker" since. I love Disney and have enjoyed learning from fellow DIS guests.

One thing I can honestly say, I do not remember the number and intensity of threads discussing WDW's decline until recently. Heck, you even find them now and again on the DVC threads where people worship Disney. I WILL say there was plenty of worry about DL a few years before the 50th anniversary...but not WDW until the last few years.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Disney trips. It's because my love of Disney is ingrained in who I am (want to see the photo of me as a 3 year old waiting for the Mickey Mouse Club - in my ears and cowgirl dress....I'm 55)...anyway, it's because I love Disney that I find loss of Disney standards so sad.

Take a look at this thread and those like it. It's not the one-timers saying it....it's people who go often because we love it and regretfully, can no longer pretend it's a well run and well kept as in the past.


Giving it a name like Corporate Greed or Taking Care of the Stockholders does not mean decline is not happening. It just gives it a REASON for the decline.

 

[KellyNY]

True, but nothing in life is black-and-white. Everything is proportional. The guest that spends nothing is at one extreme, and the guest that throws hundreds around is at the other extreme, and every spot in-between is occupied by guests. And so you can expect the import of a consumer's desire will be related to where that consumer stands on that scale.

Of course. It is the overall amount of profit contribution that matters. So even if a consumer doesn't "count" much due to their spending on their hotel, they may indeed "count" a great deal based on how much they spend on souvenirs. And in the end, Disney can't custom-tailor their marketing for each and every guest (though they do a better job in that regard than practically anyone else). Instead, they break us into segments based on demographic and other characteristics, and regard guests within a segment the same.

And indeed, talking about this sort of thing focusing only on Disney is a mistake. This is the way all major consumer-facing service providers work.

Be honest I do not feel competent enough to discuss how exactly Disney or other business works in regards in demographics, segments and so on. I cannot really agree or disagree with your stracture, too deep yet not focused... So let me just say, you lost me at hello...

 

[mickeysgirl17]

I have been visiting WDW since the mid 70s and yes, I agree with you that the past 10 years not that much change. The major changes for me was a gradual lessening of cleanliness, customer service and upkeep. I don't know if the subject of projects left incompleted and rundown has been mentioned in the thread but that makes for eyesores as well (River Country and Discovery Island -I know it's a santuary now but the buildings are really a mess - left to rot) and the unfinished portions of POP. These also take away from the beautifully upkept resort for the first 10-20 years of my visits.

I agree with you. I actually never took trips to disney until 2006. But, even from then until now, I notice a huge difference. I agree that its not as clean, that customer service isn't as good and you are sooooo right regarding pop century. It's terrible that they left it like that for so long. It seems that they are now ready to turn that into a resort, FINALLY.

And to those saying that everything is going up in price, yes thats true. It is, but at the very least, disney should not take away from us. At least leave stuff the way it is or improve your parks, resorts, food.... no, instead they are removing things from menus that are more expensive! I give them credit for starting on the fantasyland expansion. That is something new, but in the meantime, we have to pay more for a ticket now? Not to mention, they are taking away a whole section of MK (toontown). I don't think that is fair.

I really feel that I'm getting less for my money.

 

[NYDisneyKid]

ticket and resort prices have been going up-hill thats for sure

 

[fairydust72]

Well, I wasnt going to post this because Im over it now and Im sure some people are going to try to turn this around to be our fault but wanted to see if anyone else had encountered anything like this. Just came back from WDW 7/31 to 8/7. We were eating dinner at Chef Mickeys and it started storming. The monorail was shut down. Really nasty storm. We were killing time in the gift shop thinking we were stuck there buut the CM said we can take a Disney bus to Magic Kingdom. Duh!!

The bus was very crowded-standing room only when we got on. We found one seat for my DD(8)and we stood near her by the rear doors. The bus driver told us to move back which me and my other DD's did. My dh said he would like to stay by my DD(8)because it was wall to wall people and chaos.


She proceeded to push my DH in the chest and was screaming in his face saying we need to make room for others! My DH told her to take her hands off him. She yelled OK but said the rest of your party has to move back and can reconnect with you at the park.I was all the way in the back already from when she first said it . She didnt bother sending anyone else back furthur with me and my DD's though.

As we were getting off the bus there was a man yelling at other people(not us) about not exiting from the rear of the bus when the doors opened. The bus driver shut the rear doors with the people trying to exit and was yelling .

I have never seen anything like this in my life! My DH does not complain or like confrontations at all. When we got to MK he went to complain. He had the bus drivers name and bus number. We wound up with 3 fast passes for our troubles.
I was not looking for compensation at all. Just was so shocked and upset by the whole situation.

It left me with a very bad taste in my mouth for the rest of the trip.Didnt ruin it but I felt like it changed something. We wont be going back for a few years anyway.(which was the plan anyway) We actually stayed offsite this time for the first time and loved our hotel so much.I missed some things (dining plan,busses until then LOL,no parking fee etc.)but had a great trip anyway.

I think it was one of those crowded conditions where everything gets out of control. I doubt the driver was normally so high strung .

Anyway thats what happened. Sounds unbelievable even to me . LOL I can laugh now.We saw a few Cms snippy with others. I know I wouldnt want to deal with some of the stuff people try to get away with.

 

[hookedonears]

The only thing Disney does that really disappoints me is that it uses it's amusement parks division, (WDW & Disneyland) its cash cows, as a crutch to prop up the Corporation's less profitable, or losing divisions. All of Disney's Companies should be completely stand alone, though their not.

 

[Checkers]

We just returned at the beginning of the week and, yes, we have noticed many changes. We have been going for about 15 yrs. and are DVC members so it saddens me that things are not what they should be. I am talking politeness of CMs, cleanliness of restrooms, quality of food, etc. We had a particular moment at Guest Services at DTD when we went to find out if we could renew our APs early (they expire 9/24) to take advantage of the 3 mo. extension. Well, instead of just telling us we would have to wait until within our 30 days, he railed on about he could do it but he was breaking the rules and we would have to sign a paper, etc., etc., etc. I was very embarrassed and disappointed in his manner. We told him we did not want him to break the rules and that we would just renew online.

I am hoping we receive a survey because that was not the only incident that made our vacation "less than magical". We are usually very positive about our WDW vacations (and have 2 scheduled within the next 8 mos.) but if they mirror this past one, we will be rethinking the frequency of our visits.

 

[WDSearcher]

Well, I wasnt going to post this because Im over it now and Im sure some people are going to try to turn this around to be our fault but wanted to see if anyone else had encountered anything like this. Just came back from WDW 7/31 to 8/7. We were eating dinner at Chef Mickeys and it started storming. The monorail was shut down. Really nasty storm. We were killing time in the gift shop thinking we were stuck there buut the CM said we can take a Disney bus to Magic Kingdom. Duh!!

The bus was very crowded-standing room only when we got on. We found one seat for my DD(8)and we stood near her by the rear doors. The bus driver told us to move back which me and my other DD's did. My dh said he would like to stay by my DD(8)because it was wall to wall people and chaos.


She proceeded to push my DH in the chest and was screaming in his face saying we need to make room for others! My DH told her to take her hands off him. She yelled OK but said the rest of your party has to move back and can reconnect with you at the park.I was all the way in the back already from when she first said it . She didnt bother sending anyone else back furthur with me and my DD's though.

As we were getting off the bus there was a man yelling at other people(not us) about not exiting from the rear of the bus when the doors opened. The bus driver shut the rear doors with the people trying to exit and was yelling .

I have never seen anything like this in my life! My DH does not complain or like confrontations at all. When we got to MK he went to complain. He had the bus drivers name and bus number. We wound up with 3 fast passes for our troubles.
I was not looking for compensation at all. Just was so shocked and upset by the whole situation.

It left me with a very bad taste in my mouth for the rest of the trip.Didnt ruin it but I felt like it changed something. We wont be going back for a few years anyway.(which was the plan anyway) We actually stayed offsite this time for the first time and loved our hotel so much.I missed some things (dining plan,busses until then LOL,no parking fee etc.)but had a great trip anyway.

I think it was one of those crowded conditions where everything gets out of control. I doubt the driver was normally so high strung .

Anyway thats what happened. Sounds unbelievable even to me . LOL I can laugh now.We saw a few Cms snippy with others. I know I wouldnt want to deal with some of the stuff people try to get away with.

Did you write to Disney and tell them? Did you complain when it happened?

The thing about stuff like this happening is that unless people complain, it will not change. Don't just let it go. Whether you're over it now or not, Disney needs to know it happened. They cannot fix things that they do not know are broken.

 

[RayJay]

Did you write to Disney and tell them? Did you complain when it happened?

The thing about stuff like this happening is that unless people complain, it will not change. Don't just let it go. Whether you're over it now or not, Disney needs to know it happened. They cannot fix things that they do not know are broken.

Agreed,

I am very surprised to hear that a CM put their hand on someone, that is not good.

I've been to Disney 17 times and never seen or had a problem like that, your not alone
though I read stories like this all the time.

I'm sorry about this happening, Disney has always been great for us.

RayJay