Do You think DISNEY has gone down hlll the last few years?

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Phatoomch, this is not a negative thread. It's a thread for us veterans to discuss the changes at WDW and whether these changes are a sign that the place is going downhill or not. It's clear from the title what it's about so very easy to avoid for those that aren't interested or think that we're crazy. ;)

I'm glad that you are enjoying WDW so much. That's what's really important.
 
well, phatoomch, that would be a good guess. a wrong guess, but a good guess.

us disney "vets" just have seen the way things have changed over the years. not our attitudes, the prices , the perks, the parks, the Cms, the food, etc. etc.

and yet, we keep going back (hubby an I) why? because we STILL absorbed by the whole Disney magic!!! (and we go, just the 2 of us .. no kids! went with 2 pre-teens once, than 2 teens back in the 90's. have been 17 times since,just us two. but hoping to go with the kids and grandkis next summer. yeah, summer:sad1:, DDIL is a teacher)

but we do see the way things have changed over the years, and are disappointed in that. and, because we love the place so much, express such diappointment, in hopes that things will go back to being better than they are now.

course, if you haven't been in many years, you would not see this degression, and you would be perfectly happy! and, therefor, make a (wrong) assumption) that we here are just no longer absorbed in the magic.

I do disagree with brunette on one thing tho. I only stay onsite. to me, it is immersion in Disney. I am not a day guest, I am IN disney my whole trip. and I do expect to pay more for that than a resort off site.

although, not as MUCH more as recently. can't believe a VALUE resort is about $135 a night rack rate! in peak season.

but I DO love the moderates. see, we HATE the indoor corridors. we love to go out the room and there you are! outside! walk a few steps, change your view! (room view is very important to us) my goffy hubby, when we check in, loves to run around the outdoor corridor outside our room, taking numerous pics from all the views. (the Casitas , bldg. 3, at Coronado is great for this!)

take a setp outside and voila! there is the lagoon, or the horse drawn carriage, etc etc, or the pool
 
well, phatoomch, that would be a good guess. a wrong guess, but a good guess.

us disney "vets" just have seen the way things have changed over the years. not our attitudes, the prices , the perks, the parks, the Cms, the food, etc. etc.

and yet, we keep going back (hubby an I) why? because we STILL absorbed by the whole Disney magic!!! (and we go, just the 2 of us .. no kids! went with 2 pre-teens once, than 2 teens back in the 90's. have been 17 times since,just us two. but hoping to go with the kids and grandkis next summer. yeah, summer:sad1:, DDIL is a teacher)

but we do see the way things have changed over the years, and are disappointed in that. and, because we love the place so much, express such diappointment, in hopes that things will go back to being better than they are now.

course, if you haven't been in many years, you would not see this degression, and you would be perfectly happy! and, therefor, make a (wrong) assumption) that we here are just no longer absorbed in the magic.

I do disagree with brunette on one thing tho. I only stay onsite. to me, it is immersion in Disney. I am not a day guest, I am IN disney my whole trip. and I do expect to pay more for that than a resort off site.

although, not as MUCH more as recently. can't believe a VALUE resort is about $135 a night rack rate! in peak season.
but I DO love the moderates. see, we HATE the indoor corridors. we love to go out the room and there you are! outside! walk a few steps, change your view! (room view is very important to us) my goffy hubby, when we check in, loves to run around the outdoor corridor outside our room, taking numerous pics from all the views. (the Casitas , bldg. 3, at Coronado is great for this!)

take a setp outside and voila! there is the lagoon, or the horse drawn carriage, etc etc, or the pool

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Hey there Smidgey! :) LOL! That's okay, plenty of people will disagree me on things. :) Anyway, I just wanted to really make a comparison with the Deluxes. You can get some GREAT rates at gorgeous resorts a few miles from Disney for a fraction of the price. But I DO UNDERSTAND what you are saying, that you want to be immersed in Disney! We do too! WE LOVE THE THEME of all the resorts. The only thing we didn't like about the Moderates is the double bedding (not sure if you can get a Queen or not) and I think it's a smaller room. BUT the moderate resort pricing I believe is a lot cheaper too! Never stayed at a Moderate but wouldn't mind checking one out just to see! Their pools look nice and again, the pricing is more reasonable. Smidgey do you have any pictures to share from the Coronado Springs stay? Would love to see em! take care! Brunette
 

I also understand the desire to be immersed because I did experience that. I will stay onsite again but not for the immersion. I don't want it! We're all different. :)

Like Brunette, I compare the Disney deluxes to the offsite luxury hotels and from my perspective Disney loses. There are no luxury hotels there. It's all about location and theming and that's fine but if someone wants luxury they have to stay offsite and they often pay less to boot. It's just kind of odd.
 
I also understand the desire to be immersed because I did experience that. I will stay onsite again but not for the immersion. I don't want it! We're all different. :)

Like Brunette, I compare the Disney deluxes to the offsite luxury hotels and from my perspective Disney loses. There are no luxury hotels there. It's all about location and theming and that's fine but if someone wants luxury they have to stay offsite and they often pay less to boot. It's just kind of odd.

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Hi Planogirl! Have you ever been the Marriott Grand Lakes!? All I can say is, is WOW!!! GORGEOUS in every way, room, grounds, restaurants, lush pool area and PRICE! lol!

Brunette
 
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Hi Planogirl! Have you ever been the Marriott Grand Lakes!? All I can say is, is WOW!!! GORGEOUS in every way, room, grounds, restaurants, lush pool area and PRICE! lol!

Brunette
Not yet. It's on my list though along with the Peabody. I want to see those ducks! :rotfl:

I also want to stay at the Caribe Royal but I don't think that it's luxurious.
 
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Hey there Smidgey! :) LOL! That's okay, plenty of people will disagree me on things. :) Anyway, I just wanted to really make a comparison with the Deluxes. You can get some GREAT rates at gorgeous resorts a few miles from Disney for a fraction of the price. But I DO UNDERSTAND what you are saying, that you want to be immersed in Disney! We do too! WE LOVE THE THEME of all the resorts. The only thing we didn't like about the Moderates is the double bedding (not sure if you can get a Queen or not) and I think it's a smaller room. BUT the moderate resort pricing I believe is a lot cheaper too! Never stayed at a Moderate but wouldn't mind checking one out just to see! Their pools look nice and again, the pricing is more reasonable. Smidgey do you have any pictures to share from the Coronado Springs stay? Would love to see em! take care! Brunette

hubby has lots of pics. i STILL have to let him teach me how to post pics. sigh! I am not techno savvy.

we have stayed at disney's deluxe resorts. a few for cash, but more recently we have friends wgho are DVC who have tons of points and rent to us for really cheap.

we just stayed at BLT, and, honestly, we were NOT impressed. and we stayed at AKL, Jambo house, it was pretty, but the bus service is awful.. we have satyed at boardwal, and beach club. I really like beach club villas.

we also stayed on cash at WL. it we nice, for a few nights. same with dolphin, twice. nice, for a few nights.

the thing I liked best about dolphin, boardwalk, beach club, was walking to epcot. illuminations over? slowly STROLL out the international gateway. stop off for a drink and karaokee at the swan, or the piano bar at Jellyrolls. (just 2 adults here) and I know that is what I pay for.

we ahve stayed REALLY cheap ($20 a night with coupon) for one night at motel 6 on 192 in kissimee a few times, just to leave a day early on the drive, get there about 3, and check into disney very early on the morrow (best room choices).
gaylord palms looks wonderful, and always wondered about the whole Celebration thing, but we just love being on site.
hubby doesn't drive at night anymore. we like to have a few adult beverages, so it's so nice to be able to not worry about driving..

we will drive to AK, DHS, in the morning. take a resort break, take the bus at night. or drive to the waterparks, or DTD , but not epcot or Mk or anywhere at night.
 
We agree about a few things, but disagree on others. Sure a Disney vacation may be expensive to most people, but expensive is very personal. As I said, I find it expensive to pay thousands of dollars for a family to spend a week on the beach, while others find it very valuable and worth it for their family. Like you said, we all have different ways of valuing our time and money.

Maybe I've misunderstood, but you seem to be counting Disney as a day destination, and I don't think that's correct. It is a total destination, just like Las Vegas or Atlantis Bahamas - transportation and lodging are part of many vacations, and so Disney should be compared to those destinations, IMHO. When you compare to those, Disney is reasonable. We have discussed this on the Budget and Theme Park Boards many times - Disney is more affordable than many other family vacation destinations. Sure, it's expensive for many, and tickets are a huge part of the budget, but I look at what I get for those tickets, and I feel there is a lot of value in the multitude of attractions, shows, fireworks, parades and rides that Disney provides. I will admit I am looking forward to the Fantasyland expansion though, as I think the MK needs refreshing!

I am confused about you mentioning that Disney doesn't offer discounts. They have been offering lots of discounts the past few years. They have also been raising prices, but as we've talked about, this seems to serve a psychological purpose - raise menu prices to justify the Dining Plan. Resorts are different, as most hotels we stay at, raise prices each year too, although Disney seems to raise more than normal. How about places like Great Wolf Lodge? People have no problems paying $300.00/night, yet they complain about paying $175.00/night for a moderate?

To me it's because people take things personally - there are many who feel that Disney makes too much money, and shouldn't raise prices at all. Since they are a corporation, that is not how they are going to do business. They want to maximize profits, which they have been doing, so I'm not sure where their max level is? The parks are packed pretty much all year now, so since it's working for them, I don't see them lowering prices at all anytime soon.

Have areas gone downhill? Absolutely, as this thread has shown, but I don't feel that the areas of concern are of such consequence to my family that we will quit vacationing there. We aren't at that point yet, and aren't even close...there seem to be some on this thread who are close or already there, and I am sad about that, but at this point, I'm not sure what Disney could do to correct that: lower prices, well-trained CMs, better housekeeping, more discounts, etc...

As always, this thread is so interesting! Tiger :)


I do not see disney as a day trip, I only compare it to day events, since you comared price of day events with disney.
I aware of discounts but when they raised prices and then run discount it may feel like a deal but it actualy not. It works of course for first comers, who just not familiar with anything but I can easily count that even with discount I pay today more then I did just few years ago. btw, many offsite hotels keep their prices same or maybe just a bit higher and you can find amazing deals and those hotels will be true to their rating. I am not arguing that someone may find hotel prices still acceptable but I argue that it is not reasonable esp. when mousekeeping got worse, bedding is plain unacceptable imo, I am talking about CBR, our home hotel.
there are things that can be argued depening on your own values, like quality of food or service and there are things that are plain facts like prices.
I, just like you and many can talk myself into accepting changes due to economy but I cannot take cuts and price increase at the same time, too much imo and this is my main issue.
OK, I am off to check your new thread, see you there.:goodvibes
 
Phatoomch, this is not a negative thread. It's a thread for us veterans to discuss the changes at WDW and whether these changes are a sign that the place is going downhill or not. It's clear from the title what it's about so very easy to avoid for those that aren't interested or think that we're crazy. ;)

I'm glad that you are enjoying WDW so much. That's what's really important.

LOL I love crazy people ;)

I have just been seeing of late a lot of posts about how disney 'used to be' - its a bit like me and St Thomas, been there so often now that I am quick to pick up what I don't like about it rather than the reasons that made me want to go back repeatedly. It no longer has that 'spark'.

Maybe you guys are just scaring me - I forsee going to Disney every year now til I physically can't and I'm scared I'll be the one in 15 yrs time posting how disney 'used to be' :scared1: :p

But seriously, not trying to interfere or anything, just enjoying the diversity of the people on this board :) Finding this board over a year ago, it was people like you that gave me the push to book an onsite disney trip for my family :)
 
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Hi Planogirl! Have you ever been the Marriott Grand Lakes!? All I can say is, is WOW!!! GORGEOUS in every way, room, grounds, restaurants, lush pool area and PRICE! lol!

Brunette

Wow! When did you get Grande Lakes for $99.00/night? I just checked for off-peak (first few days of Nov) and peak (July), and the nightly prices range from close to $300.00/night - $400.00 plus resort fee and taxes.

Surely less than Disney Deluxes, but pretty on par with the other Orlando Deluxe hotels.

We have stayed at pretty much all Disney Deluxes except for GF and BLT (but have stayed at Contemporary 2x), and I will agree that Disney's categorization of Deluxe is not the same as other hotels/resorts. But, I have also stayed in Deluxe Resorts in Hawaii, and they don't compare to Disney, nor other Deluxe Orlando hotels we've stayed at either.

It's good there is lots of competition in Orlando, as that is exactly why these other hotels have to slash their rates, whereas Disney does not necessarily need to do that.

Glad you had a great stay there - looks lovely!

I do not see disney as a day trip, I only compare it to day events, since you comared price of day events with disney.
I aware of discounts but when they raised prices and then run discount it may feel like a deal but it actualy not. It works of course for first comers, who just not familiar with anything but I can easily count that even with discount I pay today more then I did just few years ago. btw, many offsite hotels keep their prices same or maybe just a bit higher and you can find amazing deals and those hotels will be true to their rating. I am not arguing that someone may find hotel prices still acceptable but I argue that it is not reasonable esp. when mousekeeping got worse, bedding is plain unacceptable imo, I am talking about CBR, our home hotel.
there are things that can be argued depening on your own values, like quality of food or service and there are things that are plain facts like prices.
I, just like you and many can talk myself into accepting changes due to economy but I cannot take cuts and price increase at the same time, too much imo and this is my main issue.
OK, I am off to check your new thread, see you there.:goodvibes

The thing is though, Orlando is a highly competitive market, and most are competing with Disney; therefore, the other hotels have to keep their rates steady, or slash them. Many of the Deluxe hotels in Orlando slash rates - Brunette mentioned Grande Lakes, and we've been to others that charge $400/night, yet they were on sale for $100.00. It's marketing to get people into the hotels to secure future guests, as well as to fill empty rooms.

Again, I expect to pay more for everything each and every year. How much more may be different for my family over your family, but I don't expect a Value room to be $100 in 2011 and $100 in 2020. That's not reasonable, nor shows that I understand pricing structures.

Rate increases are important for you on a personal level - can my family afford it? But from a business perspective, Disney looks at the big picture when setting their rates. It's a game as we've all established with most hotels, as only certain times of the year (peak) do people actually pay those rates, as discounts/promos are in effect so much of the time.

I guess I have a broader perspective, as I know I share Disney with 50 million guests, most of whom are paying the prices that Disney has set, whether they are rack rate or heavily discounted. People are coming and filling the parks throughout the year now, so at this point, I see them continuing in this fashion. And so it's up to each individual guest to decide if she/he can afford that particular price point.

By the way, thanks for visiting my new thread! :hug:

LOL I love crazy people ;)

I have just been seeing of late a lot of posts about how disney 'used to be' - its a bit like me and St Thomas, been there so often now that I am quick to pick up what I don't like about it rather than the reasons that made me want to go back repeatedly. It no longer has that 'spark'.

Maybe you guys are just scaring me - I forsee going to Disney every year now til I physically can't and I'm scared I'll be the one in 15 yrs time posting how disney 'used to be' :scared1: :p

But seriously, not trying to interfere or anything, just enjoying the diversity of the people on this board :) Finding this board over a year ago, it was people like you that gave me the push to book an onsite disney trip for my family :)

Welcome! I hope you enjoy the boards, and your trips to Disney as it is a most magical place!

Tiger :)
 
LOL I love crazy people ;)

I have just been seeing of late a lot of posts about how disney 'used to be' - its a bit like me and St Thomas, been there so often now that I am quick to pick up what I don't like about it rather than the reasons that made me want to go back repeatedly. It no longer has that 'spark'.

Maybe you guys are just scaring me - I forsee going to Disney every year now til I physically can't and I'm scared I'll be the one in 15 yrs time posting how disney 'used to be' :scared1: :p

But seriously, not trying to interfere or anything, just enjoying the diversity of the people on this board :) Finding this board over a year ago, it was people like you that gave me the push to book an onsite disney trip for my family :)
You might just be posting about how Disney used to be but you'll probably still be going just like all of us. It's fun to talk about Disney once you get to know it well. That includes both the good and bad and in no way keeps most of us from enjoying it. We just get grumpy and philosophical, at least in this thread.

I have noticed some of the "disappointed in Disney" threads popping up more and more though. Maybe some of them are just getting grumpy too. ;)
 
The thing is though, Orlando is a highly competitive market, and most are competing with Disney; therefore, the other hotels have to keep their rates steady, or slash them. Many of the Deluxe hotels in Orlando slash rates - Brunette mentioned Grande Lakes, and we've been to others that charge $400/night, yet they were on sale for $100.00. It's marketing to get people into the hotels to secure future guests, as well as to fill empty rooms.

Again, I expect to pay more for everything each and every year. How much more may be different for my family over your family, but I don't expect a Value room to be $100 in 2011 and $100 in 2020. That's not reasonable, nor shows that I understand pricing structures.

Rate increases are important for you on a personal level - can my family afford it? But from a business perspective, Disney looks at the big picture when setting their rates. It's a game as we've all established with most hotels, as only certain times of the year (peak) do people actually pay those rates, as discounts/promos are in effect so much of the time.

I guess I have a broader perspective, as I know I share Disney with 50 million guests, most of whom are paying the prices that Disney has set, whether they are rack rate or heavily discounted. People are coming and filling the parks throughout the year now, so at this point, I see them continuing in this fashion. And so it's up to each individual guest to decide if she/he can afford that particular price point.

By the way, thanks for visiting my new thread! :hug:
Disney also has to look at the economy. They might not always slash rates (even though they do at times) but they have to offer perceived good deals such as free dining. They can't get carried away assuming that people are willing to just pay anything to be onsite. I did notice that there were plenty of rooms available in most of the Disney hotels when we visited in early August. The parks were quite busy but the hotels weren't full. In fairness I don't know what that means exactly since I don't know if the hotels just had a few empty rooms or several.

I do believe that a lot of those people filling those parks stay offsite. I continually argue that it's dangerous to give too many freebies away to onsite guests because one could argue that many people stay offsite for budgetary reasons and if that is true then they still can't afford to stay onsite regardless of freebies. For example I believe that ride reservations for onsite guests would be seen as unfair by some of these visitors. That's not to mention locals who likely help pack the parks too.

Disney officials do have to walk a careful line don't they?
 
Disney also has to look at the economy. They might not always slash rates (even though they do at times) but they have to offer perceived good deals such as free dining. They can't get carried away assuming that people are willing to just pay anything to be onsite. I did notice that there were plenty of rooms available in most of the Disney hotels when we visited in early August. The parks were quite busy but the hotels weren't full. In fairness I don't know what that means exactly since I don't know if the hotels just had a few empty rooms or several.

I do believe that a lot of those people filling those parks stay offsite. I continually argue that it's dangerous to give too many freebies away to onsite guests because one could argue that many people stay offsite for budgetary reasons and if that is true then they still can't afford to stay onsite regardless of freebies. For example I believe that ride reservations for onsite guests would be seen as unfair by some of these visitors. That's not to mention locals who likely help pack the parks too.

Disney officials do have to walk a careful line don't they?

This!:thumbsup2

On our last trip last August we also saw so many empty rooms in our building at CBR and I am talking Aruba 51 or 52, popular location. People do not stay that willingly on property anymore when there are so many cheaper and better options. That is why Disney run FD non stop, not to make people come but to make them stay in their hotels. That is why they building new value resort because this is what most people can or willing to pay. It is not even about what one can afford but for many of us it seems totally unreasonable to pay those prices when we know offsite rates. All those crazy discounts started when they raised prices and still empty rooms. Something in their marketing dept. just does not work properly IMO.
 
Hey All!
Brunette here. Okay, I'm a Disney freak, nut, etc. I'm obsessed with Walt Disney World. I love it there, so much that we go about 6 - 8 times a year. We are annual pass holders. But I'm getting alot of bad vibes as to what is really going on in the world and it's really starting to get me to wonder. Is Disney turning into a money machine, that is only interested in making a buck and forgetting about all it's fine customers/guests? Here is my reasoning, if you will:

Disney dining - They have increased all buffets services and lowered the quality of food, i.e. took off prime rib at Boma and a few other restaurants.

Disney Concierge Service - I've been reading that the food isn't what it used to be. Yet people pay a large premium for this. Food runs out and is not replenished etc.


Christmas attractions - Took away the lights at Epcot. It was just beautiful. It totally ruined the whole effect last Christmas season.

Nickel and Diming the guest - Holiday surcharges for buffets. Okay, I can understand Thanksgiving and Christmas. But Memorial Day through 4th of July too! It's just plain wrong.

Doubling the price of a stroller- Double stroller 1 1/2 years ago was $18.00 now it is over $30.00. If you multiply that by 7 days it's the price of a rent a car!:scared1:

Ticket increases - Every August there is a ticket increase!

Brazilian groups- Extremely disruptive, rude, crass, and down right hazardous (blocking pathways), making loud noises outside of value hotel rooms in the early morning hours. There are 2-3 threads about this outrageous behavior, with hundreds of complaints from our DIS friends. Yet, Disney refuses to do anything about this.

With the economy in the tank, people out of jobs, it would seem that Disney shouldn't be this greedy, for a lack of a better word. I'm just starting to notice some of these ill effects taking place. This is just my observation.

Any thoughts?

Thanks all!
Brunette

The fact is that with the economy going down, Disney probably isn't being any more "greedy" than usual, they've made changes to maintain the level of cashflow they have had in previous years. The price of beef alone has increased tremendously - Disney is not immune to these price increases. If the cost of beef increases by a dollar for me, it increases for Disney as well. (I've actually pretty much stopped buying beef because I am lucky if I can find it at less then $4 a pound and that's just far too expensive for me.) I'm sure most people have noticed that the cost of their groceries has been steadily increasing - Disney has to pay for those increases as well.

When I see these threads, my main thought is that if it is so bad, then maybe you should stop going for awhile. The WDW of today will *never* measure up to the WDW from years past. Memories are fuzzy and as time goes on, we remember more of the good times, not the bad service at the restaurant, rude CMs, etc. For example, people post about how they dislike the meet and greets and miss wandering characters - they don't mention how a lot of the pictures from when the characters only wandered around have a lot of strangers in them or that the character might be signing someone else's autograph book when your picture was snapped.

I remember the tour groups from our trip when I was 8. People from other countries may very well be rude, but so are Americans. At least my mom didn't have to contend with understanding with the Brazilians making comments about how they wish they were in a wheelchair so that they could get special treatment, too. FWIW, my mom is a survivor of surgery to remove a malignant tumor and the subsequent radiation and chemo treatments, so their words were particularly hurtful. It's not like my mom didn't want to be able to walk around like the rest of us. But, like I said, rude (and cruel) behavior isn't limited to tour groups.

I also think that some people expect more from Disney - not because of their high standards of service - but because of the atmosphere at the parks. They expect Disney to be more "friendly" and willing to take a hit financially for the sake of the happiness of their customers.
 
The fact is that with the economy going down, Disney probably isn't being any more "greedy" than usual, they've made changes to maintain the level of cashflow they have had in previous years. The price of beef alone has increased tremendously - Disney is not immune to these price increases.

I also think that some people expect more from Disney - not because of their high standards of service - but because of the atmosphere at the parks. They expect Disney to be more "friendly" and willing to take a hit financially for the sake of the happiness of their customers.

Disney's price increases and cut backs are not in step with their increased costs and their greed is showing. They keep nibbling away slowly and reducing everything from the holiday decorations to the portion sizes in the restaurants. Most people may not notice but the CM's and Guests who visit often know what's going on.

We expect more from Disney because that is what they have taught us. The Disney Difference and Plusing It are to of their most famous slogans. The Disney Institute was known in the past as a place where other companies sent their employees to get the famous Disney training. Fewer companies recognize Disney training as something special and their Institute bookings have decreased. So much so that Institute CM's are now doing the behind the scenes tours and I must say that the tours that we took years ago were much better than the tours that we have taken since the Institute took over.

:earsboy: Bill
 
Disney deluxe accomadations has now become a thing of the past for my family.We used to go for 3 or 4 nights for less than 200 a night with taxes at the poly and you can't even begin to come close to that anymore.The accomodations was my families big expense and we cut back everywhere else just to be able to stay there.Now less than 10 years later I can't get the same rooms for less than 300 a night with taxes.Our only option is DVC point rental or swan and dolphin to come close anymore.The ironic thing to me is I have looked at the grand californian in DL and I see prices around 200 in value season out there.Now I have not stayed there yet but I have been told by many it is as nice as any hotel in disney world!Just seems strange to me the different price points in deluxes at the two parks!Especially considering that the GC is the flagship hotel at DL!
 
Disney's price increases and cut backs are not in step with their increased costs and their greed is showing. They keep nibbling away slowly and reducing everything from the holiday decorations to the portion sizes in the restaurants. Most people may not notice but the CM's and Guests who visit often know what's going on.

We expect more from Disney because that is what they have taught us. The Disney Difference and Plusing It are to of their most famous slogans. The Disney Institute was known in the past as a place where other companies sent their employees to get the famous Disney training. Fewer companies recognize Disney training as something special and their Institute bookings have decreased. So much so that Institute CM's are now doing the behind the scenes tours and I must say that the tours that we took years ago were much better than the tours that we have taken since the Institute took over.

:earsboy: Bill

I would think that with the economy, sending office members on a trip to WDW would probably be axed in favor of something cheaper and more local. I don't think its quite that cut and dry that Disney service just simply isn't what it used to be.

I think a lot of people in general thought the economy would have bounced back by now and that as a result, more companies then just Disney are tightening their belts now having realized that they need to take further precautions now that this recession is lasting longer. The short-term solutions aren't working anymore. I've seen local businesses making changes even as things pick up simply because they cannot afford to take steep losses any longer.

Sure, Disney has put out high expectations, but it stops somewhere. If its truly bad, then people will speak with their money and spend it elsewhere and Disney will make changes. If people are complaining but are still regular visitors, how bad is it really?
 
Thank you both for your kind words, and vote of confidence. I'm mulling over whether to start a new thread or not...Stay tuned! :thumbsup2



We agree about a few things, but disagree on others. Sure a Disney vacation may be expensive to most people, but expensive is very personal. As I said, I find it expensive to pay thousands of dollars for a family to spend a week on the beach, while others find it very valuable and worth it for their family. Like you said, we all have different ways of valuing our time and money.

Maybe I've misunderstood, but you seem to be counting Disney as a day destination, and I don't think that's correct. It is a total destination, just like Las Vegas or Atlantis Bahamas - transportation and lodging are part of many vacations, and so Disney should be compared to those destinations, IMHO. When you compare to those, Disney is reasonable. We have discussed this on the Budget and Theme Park Boards many times - Disney is more affordable than many other family vacation destinations.

There is no way disney is even remotely affordable compared to las vegas IMO.I have done both and vegas is so much cheaper.If you are a low roller in vegas rooms are basically free,food is free or ridiculously cheap and there are tons of entertainment options.I can't begin to go to disney for what vegas runs my family!
 
Disney also has to look at the economy. They might not always slash rates (even though they do at times) but they have to offer perceived good deals such as free dining. They can't get carried away assuming that people are willing to just pay anything to be onsite. I did notice that there were plenty of rooms available in most of the Disney hotels when we visited in early August. The parks were quite busy but the hotels weren't full. In fairness I don't know what that means exactly since I don't know if the hotels just had a few empty rooms or several.

I do believe that a lot of those people filling those parks stay offsite. I continually argue that it's dangerous to give too many freebies away to onsite guests because one could argue that many people stay offsite for budgetary reasons and if that is true then they still can't afford to stay onsite regardless of freebies. For example I believe that ride reservations for onsite guests would be seen as unfair by some of these visitors. That's not to mention locals who likely help pack the parks too.

Disney officials do have to walk a careful line don't they?

Absolutely agree! It is very dangerous to continously offer discounts/promos, as you set people up to expect it, and I think this is what has happened for Disney in certain cases. Sure it brings more people to the parks, but many of them may not come if no discount is available, which is why FD is still being offered.

Regarding offsite, remember that offsite has no choice to compete with Disney, so they have to offer discounts/promos, or people won't stay there. If their prices were the same, they would get no business. Who would stay offsite for the same prices as onsite? That's a no brainer!

We are lucky in DVC as our rooms are pretty consistently full all year round, whereas Disney's occupancy rate on a year-round basis is approx. 82%. This is higher than most of the offsite hotels though, but Disney would like to see it higher, which is why they offer continous discounts/promos now.

I still think Disney can be reasonable for many families, depending upon the time of year, as it's a total vacation destination with lots of activities available.

This!:thumbsup2

On our last trip last August we also saw so many empty rooms in our building at CBR and I am talking Aruba 51 or 52, popular location. People do not stay that willingly on property anymore when there are so many cheaper and better options. That is why Disney run FD non stop, not to make people come but to make them stay in their hotels. That is why they building new value resort because this is what most people can or willing to pay. It is not even about what one can afford but for many of us it seems totally unreasonable to pay those prices when we know offsite rates. All those crazy discounts started when they raised prices and still empty rooms. Something in their marketing dept. just does not work properly IMO.

I'm not sure how you see empty rooms - Do you mean you looked into rooms, and they didn't look occupied? Or, did you actually talk to CMs or other guests about it being slower? Beginning to middle of August is usually a busy time at Disney, but the last few years, occupancy rates do shift depending upon so many things. Interesting about August, as Plano agreed with you above too. We go during the summer as I'm a teacher, and last July 4th was the slowest we have ever encountered at Disney! But then I read reports about a crazy August, and my sis went in September, and it was super swamped! Crowds are spreading out, thanks to Disney's continous promos.

It also brings up the point as to whether Disney has too many rooms? With the economy suffering, there are now going to be times, as you noticed, when rooms are empty. Is this because there are too many rooms? Will Disney dream up some new promos, especially once the new Animation Resort opens up, in order to get higher occupancy rates across the boards - more rooms to fill, means more guests are needed.

I will disagree that their marketing department doesn't work. On the contrary...they dreamed up Free Dining, and that was a brilliant promotion. By the way, Disney does not officially release actual specific occupancy rates or seasonal numbers either.

Disney has an overabundance of rooms, especially now considering this economy, so rooms are going to sit empty at times, especially overpriced Deluxe rooms. That is a specialized market, so those rooms are last filled. I was upgraded to the Presidential Suite at the Contempory (concierge), so I can attest to empty rooms! It cost approx. $3,000/night, yet they upgraded us from a regular room. It was amazing pixie dust, but they did so because that room was empty, but many other rooms at $500-$2000/night, were all booked as we met people who were sharing the floor and the concierge lounge with us.

DVC is the opposite though as more people are DVC members than ever before, and Disney keeps building more DVC resorts. We always discuss this on our DVC boards too - with the current state of WDW (4 parks, 2 water parks), what is that magic number when there are going to be too many resorts, whether Disney or DVC?

There is no way disney is even remotely affordable compared to las vegas IMO.I have done both and vegas is so much cheaper.If you are a low roller in vegas rooms are basically free,food is free or ridiculously cheap and there are tons of entertainment options.I can't begin to go to disney for what vegas runs my family!

Sorry, I didn't say Disney was cheaper than Vegas in all cases, but of course that would depend on a lot of things, as for locals as Kelly pointed out, Disney would be cheaper. Granted, going to Atlantis Bahamas will be more than Disney (I've priced it out many times), and Vegas more than likely will be cheaper, but that depends upon where you live. But I still stand by my statement though that if you go to Disney during a low season when promos are in effect, it's reasonable compared to other family destinations. You are correct that Vegas is a lower priced destination, but the people I know who have gone have spent almost as much or more than Disney as they still had to pay for lodging, food, alcohol and entertainment, so in that respect, it could compare to Disney. We don't drink, so that isn't a big factor for us, so our Vegas cost was pretty reasonable.

Everyone I know who goes to all-inclusive resorts or family resorts, pays more or about the same as Disney, and there is no entertainment at those places either. Granted there are recreational activities that are included, but those resorts can be pretty costly.

Been to Vegas, and I totally disagree that rooms and food are free - that is only for high rollers who get comped. Granted they are pretty cheap prices, like right now, 2 adults could stay at one of the lower vegas hotels with air included for approx. $400-$450/person for 3 nights, plus fees, and that does not include food (this is from my city). I will agree that food is much cheaper and very good, but entertainment can be very costly (Cirque, singers, etc.).

Remember though, Vegas prices are supplemented by the casinos - gambling and alcohol basically pay for your cheaper rooms and buffets. I probably shouldn't have used Vegas as it I know people who have spent way more than Disney, and those who have spent less, as Vegas offers lots of choices.

Hope that clears it up, Tiger :)
 
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