Do You think DISNEY has gone down hlll the last few years?

[flicx]

Tiger,I interpreted the article as saying they have slowed expansion(first couple of paragraphs)and the part about wringing out more as something quite a few of us on here have been talking about.By the way universal has been getting disney numbers since WWOHP opened.Might wanna check those numbers.I for one sure am glad you don't think they will price themselves out.If you crunch numbers at current rate increases it certainly contradicts this thought process.You know a few years ago some thought a company like GM could never go belly up,barring our tax payer bailout that is exactly what would have happened!Now as far as the fantasyland expansion sure I think that should be a good thing,I hope it doesn't flop for 500 million.This whole nex gen and 1 billion dollar price tag thing is kinda blurry at best,no real word on what exactly it is.So I still kinda classify that as a rumour or a wait and see thing.

 

[Tiger926]

Of those that disliked it, they vary in opinion.

My mother went because she was curious as to why we liked it so much. She's not a fan of themeparks so I had a bad feeling and it turned out that I was right. She disliked the noise and nonsense as she put it.

A friend didn't like it because he saw as a "monument to excess". He went because he likes to see everything but he does prefer such places as rainforests and mountains.

A couple we know went to take the kids. They enjoyed it well enough but basically were glad when it was over. I think that they saw it as something fun to do for the kids but really didn't see any need to go back and haven't.

My very own husband doesn't really like it. He dislikes rides and crowds and noise. His idea of fun is restaurants and hotels and thinks that it's unfortunate that some nice places are so poorly located.

That's just a few that really have no use for the parks and as you can see none were forced except maybe by themselves. People differ in what they enjoy and that came as a shock to me when I was one of those completely smitten with WDW. Yes, I was that type at one time.

Just as I thought, that these guests didn't have the greatest time and that had nothing to do with Disney. Not liking noise and nonsense is valid, so you know that person isn't going to enjoy it. And having preferences for other vacation spots also is legitimate too - nothing Disney did wrong for any of these guests, as they just came with their own preconceived notions, expectations and preferences that didn't match up with Disney before they even stepped into the gates.

Tiger,I interpreted the article as saying they have slowed expansion(first couple of paragraphs)and the part about wringing out more as something quite a few of us on here have been talking about.By the way universal has been getting disney numbers since WWOHP opened.Might wanna check those numbers.I for one sure am glad you don't think they will price themselves out.If you crunch numbers at current rate increases it certainly contradicts this thought process.You know a few years ago some thought a company like GM could never go belly up,barring our tax payer bailout that is exactly what would have happened!Now as far as the fantasyland expansion sure I think that should be a good thing,I hope it doesn't flop for 500 million.This whole nex gen and 1 billion dollar price tag thing is kinda blurry at best,no real word on what exactly it is.So I still kinda classify that as a rumour or a wait and see thing.

I already mentioned Harry Potter in my response, so I already know about those numbers too. The question is, what will Universal do in response to the Fantasyland expansion?

And as an aside, I thought the car makers could go bankrupt, so I'm not one who didn't believe that could happen. I don't think that will happen with Disney though, as I think it's a different market, but again, none of us really know, do we?

I am a glass half full person, so I see things differently than you do. I would never assume that the Fantasyland expansion would flop. I don't think that way at all. I am very excited for the expansion and can't wait to see it once it is complete, as we've been seeing it in stages over the past year, and it's looking good!

You and I seem to look at WDW very differently, and that is ok. I don't believe it's going to go bankrupt, nor lose millions of guests and close. Are there problem areas? Sure, but over time, I am sure those problem areas, if deemed legitimate by Disney, will be corrected.

We like travelling to Disney, but we know that the only people you can change are ourselves, so we have made some personal changes, that work for us. We eat in our villa, instead of waste time, money and energy in the restaurants.

We don't expect much from Disney, and so far, barring a few hiccups along the way, they have been fixed. I have got a response to each and every email I've ever written to Disney, for both praise and concern. I've spoken to some very high up execs who have assisted me with some problem areas, and for this, I am grateful. We expect a safe, clean (have had a few issues with this, but they were corrected) and fun environment, and for the most part, we get that!

Am I sad that my favourite restaurants have changed? Sure, but I'm also sad that my skin isn't the same it was 20 years ago, or that my favourite bookstore closed up back home. Things change, and that is a fact of life. My response to those changes is very important in my future happiness, and so I'm not upset as those things are mostly beyond my control. I don't work for Disney, so I am not privy to inside info - I do make them known of my concerns, and that is all I can do. I have to believe that if there are major issues, that Disney will improve and correct them, but if they don't, then I make a decision as to whether I will continue to travel there. I am not at that point yet, and to be honest, it would take a lot for me to get there.

I would think that how you feel about Disney will colour your expectations and success on an actual trip, so I do hope that you are able to enjoy your next trip, and that you are able to find some of the lost magic that you seem so passionate about.

Tiger

 

[flicx]

Tiger everyone of my friends will tell you I am a glass half full person.I am an optimist,you'll just have to trust me on this.My real downside is I call it as I see it.Don't really mince words or sugar coat things.I really don't think universal will have to respond to the fantsyland expansion,while I think the expansion will do well.I think it won't have near the impact of WWOHP.I truly hope disney sees the light and goes back to the way of business that saw them succeed and expand so much through the 80's and 90's.Anyway I enjoyed the conversation with you,enjoy the rest of your evening! FLICX

 

[KellyNY]

Tiger everyone of my friends will tell you I am a glass half full person.I am an optimist,you'll just have to trust me on this.My real downside is I call it as I see it.Don't really mince words or sugar coat things.I really don't think universal will have to respond to the fantsyland expansion,while I think the expansion will do well.I think it won't have near the impact of WWOHP.I truly hope disney sees the light and goes back to the way of business that saw them succeed and expand so much through the 80's and 90's.Anyway I enjoyed the conversation with you,enjoy the rest of your evening! FLICX

I agree about FA and WWOHP and I believe because FA is simply not enough now we also going to have Avatar.

 

[CameronCanDo]

O Love Disney and thier parks are some of the best for sure - but the Nickle and Diming is a bit our of control if you ask me.

 

[Tiger926]

Tiger everyone of my friends will tell you I am a glass half full person.I am an optimist,you'll just have to trust me on this.My real downside is I call it as I see it.Don't really mince words or sugar coat things.I really don't think universal will have to respond to the fantsyland expansion,while I think the expansion will do well.I think it won't have near the impact of WWOHP.I truly hope disney sees the light and goes back to the way of business that saw them succeed and expand so much through the 80's and 90's.Anyway I enjoyed the conversation with you,enjoy the rest of your evening! FLICX

I am sorry. I am a realist too, but I would never assume that the new expansion is going to fail. That's not being optimistic at all. Your tone and mine really are different in terms of being optimistic, so I guess I will have to trust you on that.

Thanks for the chat!

I agree about FA and WWOHP and I believe because FA is simply not enough now we also going to have Avatar.

I did forget about Avatar, so thanks for the reminder! Just like Harry Potter won't appeal to all, neither will Avatar, so it will be interesting to see how it will be received by guests. I'm still not sure what I think about the Avatar project.

O Love Disney and thier parks are some of the best for sure - but the Nickle and Diming is a bit our of control if you ask me.

What do you mean? For me, nickel and diming means that after I pay for an admission ticket, I am then charged for more stuff or upgrades of things that I thought I already paid for. Eg. cruise ships.

When I am at Disney, I buy my Annual Pass, and I don't have to pay for anything additional after that. Now I realize my situation may be different than yours, but I don't pay for parking, don't buy food on property, don't need to buy snacks (you can bring your own drinks and food/snacks), nor have to pay for any additional shows at all.

For what I get, a Disney ticket is a bargain compared to: movie tickets, sporting events, broadway tickets, manicure/pedicure, hair coloring, swimming with dolphins, etc. Even if you use multi-day MYW tickets, the value that Disney provides is quite good. The problem is that it's a lot all at once, but if you take it on a per day/per person basis, I think it's very reasonable.

Your definition might be different, so that is why I am interested to see what you mean by, "Nickel and diming"?

Tiger

 

[flicx]

I am sorry. I am a realist too, but I would never assume that the new expansion is going to fail. That's not being optimistic at all. Your tone and mine really are different in terms of being optimistic, so I guess I will have to trust you on that.



Tiger

Tiger I did not say the fantasyland expansion would be a flop.I said I thought it would do alright.If you look at what I said it basically was a way of saying I hope disney wasn't wasting 500 million dollars,not predicting a flop.I also really don't know how you can determine tone from words on a computer screen.I obviously think you misjudged mine!

 

[flicx]

O Love Disney and thier parks are some of the best for sure - but the Nickle and Diming is a bit our of control if you ask me.

Definitely,I call it more like dollar and five dollaring though nowadays!

 

[blondietink]

Maybe the decrease in service/amenities is some kind of marketing ploy to get rid of the complainers (those of us who have done Disney multiple times and know what it used to be like) in order to market and get new families coming to the parks that don't know the difference. Just a thought.

When we go in December, we will purchase an AP with our DVC discount, we have plans to go in April after Easter (loved it this year) and again in October for MNNSHP (hopefully they will have Fantasyland expansion done). Then we will take a very big break and only go back in August or September 2013 if they have a FD promotion. Will bank our DVC points into the next year and do the AP thing again in the 2014 year. There is only so much Disney even die hard fans can take!

DH is getting older and he is liking the resort experience more than the theme park stuff. Our whole family, kids included, like the rides less and less, but enjoy the shows, fireworks, parades, concerts, etc. more than anything else. Food we usually cook in our villa and don't buy the stuff at the theme park, unless of course it is a Dole Whip!

Someday we will hopefully be able to visit Disneyland in California to see the original. but, I am so afraid I will be disappointed that I keep putting it off.

 

[KellyNY]

I am sorry. I am a realist too, but I would never assume that the new expansion is going to fail. That's not being optimistic at all. Your tone and mine really are different in terms of being optimistic, so I guess I will have to trust you on that.

Thanks for the chat!
I did forget about Avatar, so thanks for the reminder! Just like Harry Potter won't appeal to all, neither will Avatar, so it will be interesting to see how it will be received by guests. I'm still not sure what I think about the Avatar project.


Of course FA will not fail, it will bring additional charm to MK but will it bring new customers to Disney as WWOHP did, probably not, because it is extention of what we already have and it oriented on little girls, mostly who already go with their parents anyway.
As for Avatar vs. WWOHP, Avatar got more potential in my opinion IF AND ONLY IF executed Cameron way and not Disney way(Prince of Caspia). While WWOHP brings die hard fans, and if you are not a fan you may find it plain dark and depressing setting, Avatar will not need fans, while it may pick some with new movies. It can have amazing success based strictly on a beauty of Pandora and technology they may use to create area. And again if virtual reality will be used, it will bring younger generation who actually Universal fans. Since project is so far away, I expect Disney will not release any details till much later, they need to make a splash. And I also assume that Universal is getting a heart attack now and probably working on plans for WWOHP expansion as lets be realistic, they only brought 1 new ride.
Anyway, we have to be greatful to Universal as it pushed Disney to new levels, creating areas and not just ride, something they could and should do years ago with Star Wars. And while Disney and Universal try to top each other, we win.


What do you mean? For me, nickel and diming means that after I pay for an admission ticket, I am then charged for more stuff or upgrades of things that I thought I already paid for. Eg. cruise ships.

When I am at Disney, I buy my Annual Pass, and I don't have to pay for anything additional after that. Now I realize my situation may be different than yours, but I don't pay for parking, don't buy food on property, don't need to buy snacks (you can bring your own drinks and food/snacks), nor have to pay for any additional shows at all.

For what I get, a Disney ticket is a bargain compared to: movie tickets, sporting events, broadway tickets, manicure/pedicure, hair coloring, swimming with dolphins, etc. Even if you use multi-day MYW tickets, the value that Disney provides is quite good. The problem is that it's a lot all at once, but if you take it on a per day/per person basis, I think it's very reasonable.

Your definition might be different, so that is why I am interested to see what you mean by, "Nickel and diming"?

Tiger

I understand you comparing Disney tickets to sports events and others but this comparison only works for Florida residents, I mean day guests. For anyone else who travels strictly for Disney, we cannot ignore total price. And this is a totally different story from movies and sports events. I am not saying that they have to let us in for free but when they raise prices every year, adding new fees here and there while cutting on service it is what I would call "nickel and diming". Still Disney is a great value, no doubts here but it is less value then it used to be just few years ago.

.

 

[KellyNY]

Maybe the decrease in service/amenities is some kind of marketing ploy to get rid of the complainers (those of us who have done Disney multiple times and know what it used to be like) in order to market and get new families coming to the parks that don't know the difference. Just a thought.

.

Then they have to take all of us to desert for the next 40 years.

 

[ADP]

Has Disney gone downhill? Yes, in some ways they have.

A lot of what we are seeing is more process and pushing guests through experiences as rapidly as possible. Disney has become experts in automating people. they realize the quicker they can move us the more money they can make...Plain and simple.

Because they are automating us we get the feeling of a lackluster experience. There's no more personal touches anymore....It's all about consistency and automation with Disney.

There are advantages to consistency and automation like the movement of lines. they can and do move quicker because of faster load and unload times, etc. But, from a sheer guest experience standpoint we don't like to be automated. We'd rather get special, more personalized treatment.

 

[lugnut33]

I so agree with the things you've said here. I've seen much "decline" over the years but put a blind eye to it until now. On our last DVC trip in August, we checked into a room that had not been cleaned!!! We got in touch with a manager right away and he assured us we'd have a VIP cleaning by the time we got back from our park touring. When we came back, the room had still NOT BEEN CLEANED! It took two more calls to get the room cleaned. We were compensated, but this would have NEVER happened in the "old days". Also, I remember the days when the restrooms in the parks were spotless no matter what the crowd level. There seemed to always be an attendant nearby and there were never messes to be found. I also agree that food quality in the restaurants is sub-par. The whole Disney operation never seemd like a business to me. Now, sadly, it does. I will always have a special place in my heart for WDW, but I fear that things are definitely changing......and for the worse.

Funny, my family was at Kidani and our room was immaculate. Loved it. Sorry you got a dirty room.

All the restrooms I went into were in good shape and clean. The only one that was suspect due to smell was the one located in Adventureland near Alladin.

We only at one really fancy meal at Bistro De Paris and thought it was great. We did eat a few counter service meals and the only real bust we got was at Cosmic Rays. I actually did get a manager to refund our meals (then again we barely at any of it because it was so bad). Other than that we enjoyed the new Tortuga Tavern and Sunshine Seasons.

We had a really good time on our last trip and really enjoyed the resort we were at. Can't wait to go back.

Is it any better or worse though? I think a lot of it has to do with the attitude of the guest. It's like seeing the space shuttle launch. The first time it's amazing, second time it's cool, third time it's good, fourth time it's ordinary.

Lastly, we as a society have changed in that we feel more entitled to things, especially when paying so much for a vacation. People are only concerned about "me me me" and that leads to them being bad guests.

I seem to be rambling.

 

[Oz!]

my only complaint and I know this has been discussed in great lengths on other threads...

is the Brazilian groups that come to WDW. The last time we were at WDW we stayed at the AS Sports, and they were everywhere...I finally just asked the leaders where they were going the next day to try and avoid them.

Next summer 2012 we are staying on the Boardwalk to avoid them at the resorts, which is great for me, bigger beds!!!

 

[disneynutz]

Has Disney gone downhill? Yes, in some ways they have.

A lot of what we are seeing is more process and pushing guests through experiences as rapidly as possible. Disney has become experts in automating people. they realize the quicker they can move us the more money they can make...Plain and simple.

Because they are automating us we get the feeling of a lackluster experience. There's no more personal touches anymore....It's all about consistency and automation with Disney.

There are advantages to consistency and automation like the movement of lines. they can and do move quicker because of faster load and unload times, etc. But, from a sheer guest experience standpoint we don't like to be automated. We'd rather get special, more personalized treatment.

Did you read about the study that is being done to put moving walkways throughout the parks. No more people bumping into you or map readers stopping right in front of you. Everyone goes in one direction, it starts at the entrance to the park and stops at the exit. Fast, efficient, and they are expecting to be able to handle a 30% increase in attendance.

I didn't read about it because it doesn't exist, I just wondered if you had.

Bill

 

[Oz!]

Did you read about the study that is being done to put moving walkways throughout the parks. No more people bumping into you or map readers stopping right in front of you. Everyone goes in one direction, it starts at the entrance to the park and stops at the exit. Fast, efficient, and they are expecting to be able to handle a 30% increase in attendance.

I didn't read about it because it doesn't exist, I just wondered if you had.

Bill

read it as a rumor, but it would be great!!!

They have them in Vegas at some of the hotels and they are great!!!

 

[GrillMouster]

I feel as though there has been a shift in the mentality of those running the Disney company. There used to be a sense of mutual respect, where Disney was generous to its guests and the guests returned the favor by being generous back to Disney. Now Disney seems to want everything that it does for the guests to be DIRECTLY tied to money back in Disney's pocket.

Eisner was no angel, but I think he "got it". He understood that Disney should INVEST in giving guests an exceptional experience, and that investment would EVENTUALLY pay dividends through repeat visits, more money spent voluntarily, and word-of-mouth referrals to friends & families. While I give Iger props for making Pixar part of the Disney family, he comes across as just a businessman trying to make as much money for the shareholders as possible. I'm a capitalist, and see nothing wrong with businesses trying to make a buck. However, that stuff should be invisible to the consumer, and, unfortunately, at the moment it's not. It's all too apparent. The veil of Disney as an experience is becoming too transparent, and the machinations are becoming too obvious.

People keep visiting and spending, so the company keeps going along its current path. We Disneyphiles are so in love with what Disney used to be that we keep going back, and I feel like the current Disney is taking advantage of us and our fanatical nature. They don't appreciate me, they appreciate my wallet. Maybe they never appreciated me, but at least they made me feel like they did, and as long as that was the case I was glad to reward them with my money. Now, it's closer to being just a transaction.

These "Is Disney Going Downhill" threads pop up all the time, and I try to avoid them, thinking that they're full of complainers and whiners. However, here I am...sucked into the conversation. I don't want to be completely negative. The fact is, I still enjoy WDW immensely. Most of the company's theme park and travel divisions still put the guest experience at the forefront. I think that Walt, the executives, imagineers, and CMs to date have built something so exceptional that the current management bean-counters can't completely change the overall positive perception of Disney in short time. If Disney had never existed and the current management team were to attempt to build WDW from scratch today, there is NO WAY that they could succeed, as they lack the VISION and UNDERSTANDING that made Disney the indelible institution that it is today.

I will say something in defense of the current Disney management. They're dealing with a different type of marketplace, one that tries hard to turn every product and service into a commodity. Some call it the "Wal-Mart Mentality". People are becoming accustomed to receiving little or no customer service in exchange for a low price or convenience. Disney is trying to capitalize on that commodity mindset, and in the process is in danger of making itself less special.

I don't think Disney has gone downhill. I think it has lost its focus at the top. To a very small degree some of that "lost focus" has trickled down, but overall, Disney is still a great place. The Imagineers and the vast majority of CMs are doing a fantastic job of keeping Disney spirit alive and sharing it with guests.

 

[SevenSeasLagoon5]

Funny, my family was at Kidani and our room was immaculate. Loved it. Sorry you got a dirty room.

All the restrooms I went into were in good shape and clean. The only one that was suspect due to smell was the one located in Adventureland near Alladin.

We only at one really fancy meal at Bistro De Paris and thought it was great. We did eat a few counter service meals and the only real bust we got was at Cosmic Rays. I actually did get a manager to refund our meals (then again we barely at any of it because it was so bad). Other than that we enjoyed the new Tortuga Tavern and Sunshine Seasons.

We had a really good time on our last trip and really enjoyed the resort we were at. Can't wait to go back.

Is it any better or worse though? I think a lot of it has to do with the attitude of the guest. It's like seeing the space shuttle launch. The first time it's amazing, second time it's cool, third time it's good, fourth time it's ordinary.

Lastly, we as a society have changed in that we feel more entitled to things, especially when paying so much for a vacation. People are only concerned about "me me me" and that leads to them being bad guests.

I seem to be rambling.

I don't think it's "funny" at all that you CHECKED IN TO A CLEAN ROOM. It's supposed to be clean when you check in!! That doesn't change the fact that we checked in to a room that hadn't been cleaned at all from the previous guest. We're talking "surprises" in the toilet.

Speaking of toilets, the bathrooms in the parks used to be immaculate...no tp on the floors, no over flowing trash pins, no spray on the seats, etc. b/c there was almost always an attendant on top of it. I'm not saying the bathrooms are always nasty all the time, I'm saying they are definitely not as clean as they used to be.

The agrument here is not whether or not you like WDW or enjoy the resorts. I will probably always love both. The discussion here is whether or not things are sliding.

I'd be really curious to know how long people posting here have been WDW visitors. I have a feeling that those of us who were there in the 70's, would say it's declined. For those who have been going from the 90's forward, you may not notice as much.

Sorry, but this has nothing at all to do with entitlement. It's a valid comparison of how the "World" has changed.

 

[disneynutz]

I feel as thought there has been a shift in the mentality of those running the Disney company. There used to be a sense of mutual respect, where Disney was generous to its guests and the guests returned the favor by being generous back to Disney. Now Disney seems to want everything that it does for the guests to be DIRECTLY tied to money back in Disney's pocket.

Eisner was no angel, but I think he "got it". He understood that Disney should INVEST in giving guests an exceptional experience, and that investment would EVENTUALLY pay dividends through repeat visits, more money spent voluntarily, and word-of-mouth referrals to friends & families. While I give Iger props for making Pixar part of the Disney family, he comes across as just a businessman trying to make as much money for the shareholders as possible. I'm a capitalist, and see nothing wrong with businesses trying to make a buck. However, that stuff should be invisible to the consumer, and, unfortunately, at the moment it's not. It's all too apparent. The veil of Disney as an experience is becoming too transparent, and the machinations are becoming too obvious.

People keep visiting and spending, so the company keeps going along its current path. We Disneyphiles are so in love with what Disney used to be that we keep going back, and I feel like the current Disney is taking advantage of us and our fanatical nature. They don't appreciate me, they appreciate my wallet. Maybe they never appreciated me, but at least they made me feel like they did, and as long as that was the case I was glad to reward them with my money. Now, it's closer to being just a transaction.

These "Is Disney Going Downhill" threads pop up all the time, and I try to avoid them, thinking that they're full of complainers and whiners. However, here I am...sucked into the conversation. I don't want to be completely negative. The fact is, I still enjoy WDW immensely. Most of the company's theme park and travel divisions still put the guest experience at the forefront. I think that Walt, the executives, imagineers, and CMs to date have built something so exceptional that the current management bean-counters can't completely change the overall positive perception of Disney in short time. If Disney had never existed and the current management team were to attempt to build WDW from scratch today, there is NO WAY that they could succeed, as they lack the VISION and UNDERSTANDING that made Disney the indelible institution that it is today.

I will say something in defense of the current Disney management. They're dealing with a different type of marketplace, one that tries hard to turn every product and service into a commodity. Some call it the "Wal-Mart Mentality". People are becoming accustomed to receiving little or no customer service in exchange for a low price or convenience. Disney is trying capitalize on that commodity mindset, and in the process is in danger of making itself less special.

I don't think Disney has gone downhill. I think it has lost its focus at the top. To a very small degree some of that "lost focus" has trickled down, but overall, Disney is still a great place. The Imagineers and the vast majority of CMs are doing a fantastic job of keeping Disney spirit alive and sharing it with guests.

This is one of the best posts and it sums up my thoughts and feelings exactly, well done. My hope is that someone in power at Disney reads this and takes it to heart. I know that it's a long shot but we can always hope for a little Disney magic.

Bill

 

[manning]

.

I'd be really curious to know how long people posting here have been WDW visitors. I have a feeling that those of us who were there in the 70's, would say it's declined. For those who have been going from the 90's forward, you may not notice as much.

Sorry, but this has nothing at all to do with entitlement. It's a valid comparison of how the "World" has changed.

From someone from the '70s. Those who did not see the quality of the '70s can't appreciate the huge decline. We are now approaching the same levels of Six Flags and if that's the case why bother to go to WDW when you can go to a Six Flags that is closer.