Do you eat organic?

[cm8]

we eat organic, and we believe that it helps us. We also eat some non organic foods when organics are not available. No hormones in our meat or milk either!

 

[Ember]

I personally think that it has become the hip, PC thing to do and thus the increased popularity. I think there are lots of people out there that see celebrities doing it and jump on the bandwagon. There have always been people out there who have done the research and advocte for it from a health standpoint. I honestly don't think it makes that much difference for personal health in the long run where the apple came from. Obviously, eating whole foods whenever possible is better, but is an organic apple so much different than a non-organic apple that you are endangering your life by eating it? I tend to think not. Eating locally grown produce to in an effort to reduce environmental impact is a whole different set of priorities.

What a great post. I agree. I think most people do very little research beyond Google university, and then make a choice based on the biased opinions of one or two people. (You'll notice how many people quote Michael Pollen and no one else.) There is a demonetization of science and an odd belief that anything natural must therefore be good. You see this is natural medicine, too. I'm not sure you can call organic food a fad, because I don't think it's going anywhere for a while, but it certainly is the fashionable thing to be eating. You even get to pay extra for it adding status to the deal!

The health benefits of organic food are more perceived than real. However, the public opinion that organic food is healthier than conventional food is quite strong and is the sole reason for about 30% growth in the organic food industry since the past 5-6 years.

The USDA and the FDA clearly state that conventional food is as healthy as organic food. Scientific research has also not been able to prove that organic food is healthier than conventional food. The exceptions are organic milk and organic tomatoes. Recent studies on organic milk and organic tomatoes have shown that these food products are "healthier" than non organic milk and non organic tomatoes respectively. It's important to note; however, that organically grown tomatoes have more nutrients than conventionally grown tomatoes in a way that is a statistically significant - not nutritionally significant. The amount of nutrients needed to meet the level of statistical significance is much less than the amount of nutrients needed to be nutritionally significant and that this does not actually mean they are healthier.

Anyway, all that aside, my answer is no, I do not eat organic. I eat locally as much as possible, but have yet to see any real compelling evidence that organic is better in any way. (And, yes, I'm looking to science for that evidence.) I haven't had a chance to read the new study on chemical residue being linked to ADHD but wouldn't be shocked in the least to find that the media has misrepresented it. (Though people are now going to quote it over and over again, and I bet a fraction of them will actually bother to read it or go over the methodology.)

*Added* As a counterpoint to Mr. Pollen's book, I suggest Alex Avery's The Truth About Organic Food. Of course, this will mean being open to a counter argument, which I know isn't easy or popular. Though, as I said before, I encourage multiple sources be used, not just one or two.

 

[monkeybug]

What a great post. I agree. I think most people do very little research beyond Google university, and then make a choice based on the biased opinions of one or two people. (You'll notice how many people quote Michael Pollen and no one else.) There is a demonetization of science and an odd belief that anything natural must therefore be good. You see this is natural medicine, too. I'm not sure you can call organic food a fad, because I don't think it's going anywhere for a while, but it certainly is the fashionable thing to be eating. You even get to pay extra for it adding status to the deal!

The health benefits of organic food are more perceived than real. However, the public opinion that organic food is healthier than conventional food is quite strong and is the sole reason for about 30% growth in the organic food industry since the past 5-6 years.

The USDA and the FDA clearly state that conventional food is as healthy as organic food. Scientific research has also not been able to prove that organic food is healthier than conventional food. The exceptions are organic milk and organic tomatoes. Recent studies on organic milk and organic tomatoes have shown that these food products are "healthier" than non organic milk and non organic tomatoes respectively. It's important to note; however, that organically grown tomatoes have more nutrients than conventionally grown tomatoes in a way that is a statistically significant - not nutritionally significant. The amount of nutrients needed to meet the level of statistical significance is much less than the amount of nutrients needed to be nutritionally significant and that this does not actually mean they are healthier.

Anyway, all that aside, my answer is no, I do not eat organic. I eat locally as much as possible, but have yet to see any real compelling evidence that organic is better in any way. (And, yes, I'm looking to science for that evidence.) I haven't had a chance to read the new study on chemical residue being linked to ADHD but wouldn't be shocked in the least to find that the media has misrepresented it. (Though people are now going to quote it over and over again, and I bet a fraction of them will actually bother to read it or go over the methodology.)

*Added* As a counterpoint to Mr. Pollen's book, I suggest Alex Avery's The Truth About Organic Food. Of course, this will mean being open to a counter argument, which I know isn't easy or popular. Though, as I said before, I encourage multiple sources be used, not just one or two.

I see your point, but I have to say that I'd rather maybe pay more for an apple with nothing on it, that I know for sure has no ill effects, than buy an apple that to this date science has found nothing wrong with, but could possibly with more research discover it isn't as safe as originally thought. I am 99% confident that at no point will scientists find that a pesticide free apple in it's natural state contains harmful chemicals, I can't say the same concerning the apple that was doused in them while growing. I know that organic foods can come with a higher risk of things like ecoli, but with proper food handling that risk is greatly reduced.

My logic is that I weigh the risk.
Is it risky to avoid a vaccine because it's not "natural"? I think so, and that's why my family gets them.
Is it risky to avoid modern medicine when you are ill? Again, I think for most things it is! I'd rather take the risk with a medicine than a disease or ailment in most cases.
Is it risky to avoid highly processed foods, or foods grown with pesticides? I don't think it is, so I see no harm in sticking to the natural version in that case, to me it just seems more of a risk to trust that the chemicals will be proven safe in the long run. As far as I know veggies in their natural state are already proven safe.

 

[Ember]

I see your point, but I have to say that I'd rather maybe pay more for an apple with nothing on it, that I know for sure has no ill effects, than buy an apple that to this date science has found nothing wrong with, but could possibly with more research discover it isn't as safe as originally thought. I am 99% confident that at no point will scientists find that a pesticide free apple in it's natural state contains harmful chemicals, I can't say the same concerning the apple that was doused in them while growing. I know that organic foods can come with a higher risk of things like ecoli, but with proper food handling that risk is greatly reduced.

My logic is that I weigh the risk.
Is it risky to avoid a vaccine because it's not "natural"? I think so, and that's why my family gets them.
Is it risky to avoid modern medicine when you are ill? Again, I think for most things it is! I'd rather take the risk with a medicine than a disease or ailment in most cases.
Is it risky to avoid highly processed foods, or foods grown with pesticides? I don't think it is, so I see no harm in sticking to the natural version in that case, to me it just seems more of a risk to trust that the chemicals will be proven safe in the long run. As far as I know veggies in their natural state are already proven safe.

That's a good point, but the organic apple isn't free of pesticides. It was grown with an organic pesticide. When you test synthetic chemicals for their ability to cause cancer, you find that about half of them are carcinogenic. Until recently, nobody bothered to look at natural chemicals (such as organic pesticides), because it was assumed that they posed little risk. But when the studies were done, the results were somewhat shocking: you find that about half of the natural chemicals studied are carcinogenic as well. Natural does not automatically mean harmless.

A recent study compared the effectiveness of a rotenone-pyrethrin mixture versus a synthetic pesticide, imidan. Rotenone and pyrethrin are two common organic pesticides; imidan is considered a "soft" synthetic pesticide (i.e., designed to have a brief lifetime after application, and other traits that minimize unwanted effects). It was found that up to 7 applications of the rotenone- pyrethrin mixture were required to obtain the level of protection provided by 2 applications of imidan.

I'm not knocking your choice, because you may still be right. But I just don't believe it's a given and that the same argument could be made in reverse: that organic food growing processes are as yet untested. By this, you face choosing a food that has been tested extensively vs. one that is largely an unknown in terms of risk.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

Yes.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2003/07/23/organic-food-part-two.aspx

 

[monkeybug]

That's a good point, but the organic apple isn't free of pesticides. It was grown with an organic pesticide. When you test synthetic chemicals for their ability to cause cancer, you find that about half of them are carcinogenic. Until recently, nobody bothered to look at natural chemicals (such as organic pesticides), because it was assumed that they posed little risk. But when the studies were done, the results were somewhat shocking: you find that about half of the natural chemicals studied are carcinogenic as well. Natural does not automatically mean harmless.

A recent study compared the effectiveness of a rotenone-pyrethrin mixture versus a synthetic pesticide, imidan. Rotenone and pyrethrin are two common organic pesticides; imidan is considered a "soft" synthetic pesticide (i.e., designed to have a brief lifetime after application, and other traits that minimize unwanted effects). It was found that up to 7 applications of the rotenone- pyrethrin mixture were required to obtain the level of protection provided by 2 applications of imidan.

I'm not knocking your choice, because you may still be right. But I just don't believe it's a given and that the same argument could be made in reverse: that organic food growing processes are as yet untested. By this, you face choosing a food that has been tested extensively vs. one that is largely an unknown in terms of risk.

I guess I need to do more research, because honestly I just assumed that organic, pretty much meant they didn't do anything to it. It's obviously not something I put a lot of thought or research into, just figured there was no risk in eating something not full of pesticides.
When I grow veggies in my garden (which I don't have the space to do now) I just plant 'em in the ground and water them! I never needed to spray them for anything, and my parents fruit trees were always the same. We had apricots, peaches, cherries, and apples in our yard, and they never sprayed with anything organic or otherwise. Just left them alone and then ate them when they were ripe!
We are looking in to joining a CSA (as I said not because it's organic, but because I'd rather pay a bit more and support a small farm) and at least one perk to that is you can question the farmer about their growing methods. I wonder if it's even possible to find food grown with little or no intervention with out just growing it in your backyard?
I just want to feed my family food. Just food. Things like carrots, chicken, spinach, and cheese. I wish there were a way to do that with out getting all the "extras" like pesticides, hormones, and preservatives, but I guess it's just not that easy.
I read recently that the Amish have a 72% lower risk of developing cancer, and much lower rates of heart disease and diabetes, despite the fact that they have diets high in carbs and fats. I know a big part of that is the fact that they get lot's of exercise while working hard, but the article also mentioned that they use organic farming methods. I wonder if their methods are any more "organic" than others?

 

[Anjelica]

That's a good point, but the organic apple isn't free of pesticides. It was grown with an organic pesticide. When you test synthetic chemicals for their ability to cause cancer, you find that about half of them are carcinogenic. Until recently, nobody bothered to look at natural chemicals (such as organic pesticides), because it was assumed that they posed little risk. But when the studies were done, the results were somewhat shocking: you find that about half of the natural chemicals studied are carcinogenic as well. Natural does not automatically mean harmless.

A recent study compared the effectiveness of a rotenone-pyrethrin mixture versus a synthetic pesticide, imidan. Rotenone and pyrethrin are two common organic pesticides; imidan is considered a "soft" synthetic pesticide (i.e., designed to have a brief lifetime after application, and other traits that minimize unwanted effects). It was found that up to 7 applications of the rotenone- pyrethrin mixture were required to obtain the level of protection provided by 2 applications of imidan.

I'm not knocking your choice, because you may still be right. But I just don't believe it's a given and that the same argument could be made in reverse: that organic food growing processes are as yet untested. By this, you face choosing a food that has been tested extensively vs. one that is largely an unknown in terms of risk.

I've read very similar things as well. I think some are under the impression that "organic" means no pesticides which is not true - it just means no synthetic pesticides.

I had someone bring up the whole hormone in milk argument and after a few days of research came to the conclusion that its not what folks claim it to be. The hormone they give the cows to produce more milk is a "natural" hormone that is produced by the cows as it stands. Additionally, that hormone (BGH) is generally non-existent after the pastureization takes place. For some reason folks think that because they are getting organic milk they aren't getting the hormone - which isn't always true - it's naturally produced in cows.

With all the above being said I don't knock people that want to eat the way they want to eat. It's their choice.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

I've read very similar things as well. I think some are under the impression that "organic" means no pesticides which is not true - it just means no synthetic pesticides.

I had someone bring up the whole hormone in milk argument and after a few days of research came to the conclusion that its not what folks claim it to be. The hormone they give the cows to produce more milk is a "natural" hormone that is produced by the cows as it stands. Additionally, that hormone (BGH) is generally non-existent after the pastureization takes place. For some reason folks think that because they are getting organic milk they aren't getting the hormone - which isn't always true - it's naturally produced in cows.

With all the above being said I don't knock people that want to eat the way they want to eat. It's their choice.

Oh boy.

Do organic farmers ever use pesticides?
Organic farmers' primary strategy is "prevention." By building healthy soils, healthy plants are better able to resist disease and insects. When pest populations get out of balance, growers will try various options like insect predators, mating disruption, traps and barriers. If these fail, the certifier may grant permission to apply botanical or other non-persistent pesticides from the USDA National List of Approved Substances under restricted conditions. Botanicals are derived from plants and are broken down quickly by oxygen and sunlight.

List of “Ingredients” Added to Cow’s Milk

Here are just a few of the artificially-engineered components found in the average glass of non organic pasteurized and homogenized milk on the American dinner table:

A Veritable Hormone Cocktail: including pituitary, steroid, hypothalamic, and thyroid hormones (remember most cows are extremely stressed)
Gastrointestinal Peptides:
Nerve and epidermal growth factors, and the growth inhibitors MDGI and MAF
rBGH (Recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone): a genetically engineered hormone directly linked to breast, colon and prostrate cancer. This is injected into cows to increase milk production.[1]

Antibiotics: Currently, cows are in such a state of disease and mistreatment that they are continually being injected with antibiotic medicines, and rubbed down with chemical-laden ointments to deal with their chronic infections. Currently, regulating committees only test for 4 of the 85 drugs in dairy cows. This means that the other 81 drugs in cow’s milk are coming directly into your glasses and bodies. Estimates show that 38% of milk in the U.S. is “contaminated with sulfa drugs or other antibiotics,” according to a study by the Centre for Science in the Public Interest and published in the Wall Street Journal on December 29, 1989. A study from the FDA data showed that over half of all milk was laden with traces of pharmaceuticals yet nothing has been done to control this.

 

[Anjelica]

Oh boy.

Do organic farmers ever use pesticides?
Organic farmers' primary strategy is "prevention." By building healthy soils, healthy plants are better able to resist disease and insects. When pest populations get out of balance, growers will try various options like insect predators, mating disruption, traps and barriers. If these fail, the certifier may grant permission to apply botanical or other non-persistent pesticides from the USDA National List of Approved Substances under restricted conditions. Botanicals are derived from plants and are broken down quickly by oxygen and sunlight.

List of “Ingredients” Added to Cow’s Milk

Here are just a few of the artificially-engineered components found in the average glass of non organic pasteurized and homogenized milk on the American dinner table:

A Veritable Hormone Cocktail: including pituitary, steroid, hypothalamic, and thyroid hormones (remember most cows are extremely stressed)
Gastrointestinal Peptides:
Nerve and epidermal growth factors, and the growth inhibitors MDGI and MAF
rBGH (Recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone): a genetically engineered hormone directly linked to breast, colon and prostrate cancer. This is injected into cows to increase milk production.[1]

Antibiotics: Currently, cows are in such a state of disease and mistreatment that they are continually being injected with antibiotic medicines, and rubbed down with chemical-laden ointments to deal with their chronic infections. Currently, regulating committees only test for 4 of the 85 drugs in dairy cows. This means that the other 81 drugs in cow’s milk are coming directly into your glasses and bodies. Estimates show that 38% of milk in the U.S. is “contaminated with sulfa drugs or other antibiotics,” according to a study by the Centre for Science in the Public Interest and published in the Wall Street Journal on December 29, 1989. A study from the FDA data showed that over half of all milk was laden with traces of pharmaceuticals yet nothing has been done to control this.

You refer an article from over 21 years ago - do you have the link to the sources?

http://nutritionwonderland.com/2009/12/the-truth-about-organic-farming/

"Myth: Organic Foods Are Free From Pesticides And Harmful Chemicals
The number one reason that I hear as to why to eat organic foods is that they have no pesticides or harmful compounds. I hate to burst your bubble, but that’s simply not true. Organic farming, just like other forms of agriculture, still uses pesticides and fungicides to prevent critters from destroying their crops. Confused?


NCFAP shows 'natural' pesticide use is dramatically higher than conventional produce
So was I, when I first learned this from my boyfriend. His family owns a farm in rural Ohio (a farm which isn’t organic simply because they use a non-organic herbicide once a year, though they use absolutely no pesticides). The local organic farms, he explained, spray their crops all the time with a variety of chemicals. I didn’t believe him at first, so I looked into it: turns out that there are over 20 chemicals commonly used in the growing and processing of organic crops that are approved by the US Organic Standards. And, shockingly, the actual volume usage of pesticides on organic farms is not recorded by the government. Why the government isn’t keeping watch on organic pesticide and fungicide use is a damn good question, especially considering that many organic pesticides that are also used by conventional farmers are used more intensively than synthetic ones due to their lower levels of effectiveness. According to the National Center for Food and Agricultural Policy, the top two organic fungicides, copper and sulfur, were used at a rate of 4 and 34 pounds per acre in 1971 [1]. In contrast, the synthetic fungicides only required a rate of 1.6 lbs per acre, less than half the amount of the organic alternatives.

The sad truth is, factory farming is factory farming, whether its organic or conventional. Many large organic farms use pesticides liberally. They’re organic by certification, but you’d never know it if you saw their farming practices. As Michael Pollan, best-selling book author and organic supporter, said in an interview with Organic Gardening,

“They’re organic by the letter, not organic in spirit… if most organic consumers went to those places, they would feel they were getting ripped off.”

"Take the example of Rotenone. Rotenone was widely used in the US as an organic pesticide for decades 3. Because it is natural in origin, occurring in the roots and stems of a small number of subtropical plants, it was considered “safe” as well as “organic“. However, research has shown that rotenone is highly dangerous because it kills by attacking the mitochondria, the energy powerhouses of all living cells. Research found that exposure to rotenone caused Parkinson’s Disease-like symptoms in rats 4, and killed many species, including humans. Rotenone’s use as a pesticide has already been discontinued in the US as of 2005 due to health concerns, but shockingly, it’s still poured into our waters every year because it is approved for fisheries management use as a piscicide to remove unwanted fish species. The point I’m driving home here is that just because something is natural doesn’t make it non-toxic or safe. Many bacteria, fungi and plants produce poisons, toxins and chemicals that you wouldn’t want sprayed on your food."

 

[Colleen27]

I guess I need to do more research, because honestly I just assumed that organic, pretty much meant they didn't do anything to it. It's obviously not something I put a lot of thought or research into, just figured there was no risk in eating something not full of pesticides.
When I grow veggies in my garden (which I don't have the space to do now) I just plant 'em in the ground and water them! I never needed to spray them for anything, and my parents fruit trees were always the same. We had apricots, peaches, cherries, and apples in our yard, and they never sprayed with anything organic or otherwise. Just left them alone and then ate them when they were ripe!
We are looking in to joining a CSA (as I said not because it's organic, but because I'd rather pay a bit more and support a small farm) and at least one perk to that is you can question the farmer about their growing methods. I wonder if it's even possible to find food grown with little or no intervention with out just growing it in your backyard?
I just want to feed my family food. Just food. Things like carrots, chicken, spinach, and cheese. I wish there were a way to do that with out getting all the "extras" like pesticides, hormones, and preservatives, but I guess it's just not that easy.
I read recently that the Amish have a 72% lower risk of developing cancer, and much lower rates of heart disease and diabetes, despite the fact that they have diets high in carbs and fats. I know a big part of that is the fact that they get lot's of exercise while working hard, but the article also mentioned that they use organic farming methods. I wonder if their methods are any more "organic" than others?

As others have pointed out, organic standards do allow for spraying and fertilization. The substances used just have to be organic/natural, and natural doesn't necessarily equal safe. You'll find some organic farmers use crop rotation, natural predators, and other techniques that leave no residues, while others spray just as heavily as non-organic farmers but with different substances.

You absolutely can find food grown with little/no intervention, but it does take effort. You're on the right track with a CSA and talking to the farmers. I have it a lot easier than some because I live in farm country, but I've found plenty of small farms that grow crops/raise animals the same way people did a century or so ago, before the "green revolution" and the advent of high-input/low-labor farming. Most are NOT certified organic, because the certification process is long and costly and because maintaining certification requires record-keeping, documentation, and restrictions that they prefer to avoid. That's why in my initial post on the thread I referred to buying organic as my "c-list" strategy for better food - buying from local non-organic farmers after getting to know their growing methods is better by far than just looking for an organic label at the grocery.

As far as the Amish go, their growing methods are more than organic - they're traditional, which I really do think is more meaningful than the modern organic label. But to compare them to the population as a whole is difficult because there are so very many variables. They don't vaccinate for the most part, are exposed to far less pollution than the rest of us, live a less stressful lifestyle with closer ties to family and community... It all factors in.

 

[Ember]

I guess I need to do more research, because honestly I just assumed that organic, pretty much meant they didn't do anything to it. It's obviously not something I put a lot of thought or research into, just figured there was no risk in eating something not full of pesticides.
When I grow veggies in my garden (which I don't have the space to do now) I just plant 'em in the ground and water them! I never needed to spray them for anything, and my parents fruit trees were always the same. We had apricots, peaches, cherries, and apples in our yard, and they never sprayed with anything organic or otherwise. Just left them alone and then ate them when they were ripe!
We are looking in to joining a CSA (as I said not because it's organic, but because I'd rather pay a bit more and support a small farm) and at least one perk to that is you can question the farmer about their growing methods. I wonder if it's even possible to find food grown with little or no intervention with out just growing it in your backyard?
I just want to feed my family food. Just food. Things like carrots, chicken, spinach, and cheese. I wish there were a way to do that with out getting all the "extras" like pesticides, hormones, and preservatives, but I guess it's just not that easy.
I read recently that the Amish have a 72% lower risk of developing cancer, and much lower rates of heart disease and diabetes, despite the fact that they have diets high in carbs and fats. I know a big part of that is the fact that they get lot's of exercise while working hard, but the article also mentioned that they use organic farming methods. I wonder if their methods are any more "organic" than others?

I think it's great you're going to do more research and look into things. Be sure to read up on both sides of the debate, there's no better way to learn. You may change your opinion, you may not, but you'll be armed with information when making choices.

I don't know a lot about Amish farming methods... But they're producing food for a small population, so I wouldn't be surprised to find they're different in some ways. I know when I buy their tomatoes at the farmers market they sure taste good!

 

[bicker]

The problem is that most people don't have unlimited resources, and so even if they try not to, and even if they swear that they don't, may look at their overall food budget, affected (inflated) by their purchase of (unnecessary) organics, and make other purchasing decisions that are inferior, to "make up for" ("economize") as a result of the financial pressure associated with purchasing the (unnecessary) organics.

BTW: Vegetables in their natural state may or may not be safe. I wouldn't eat tomatoes from a garden in my backyard, for at least one reason. Indeed, differences in atmospheric, water, and soil conditions may result in a conventional product safer than an organic product.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I think it's great you're going to do more research and look into things. Be sure to read up on both sides of the debate, there's no better way to learn. You may change your opinion, you may not, but you'll be armed with information when making choices.

I don't know a lot about Amish farming methods... But they're producing food for a small population, so I wouldn't be surprised to find they're different in some ways. I know when I buy their tomatoes at the farmers market they sure taste good!

And know who is funding the research. So important.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

You refer an article from over 21 years ago - do you have the link to the sources?

http://nutritionwonderland.com/2009/12/the-truth-about-organic-farming/

"Myth: Organic Foods Are Free From Pesticides And Harmful Chemicals
The number one reason that I hear as to why to eat organic foods is that they have no pesticides or harmful compounds. I hate to burst your bubble, but that’s simply not true. Organic farming, just like other forms of agriculture, still uses pesticides and fungicides to prevent critters from destroying their crops. Confused?


NCFAP shows 'natural' pesticide use is dramatically higher than conventional produce
So was I, when I first learned this from my boyfriend. His family owns a farm in rural Ohio (a farm which isn’t organic simply because they use a non-organic herbicide once a year, though they use absolutely no pesticides). The local organic farms, he explained, spray their crops all the time with a variety of chemicals. I didn’t believe him at first, so I looked into it: turns out that there are over 20 chemicals commonly used in the growing and processing of organic crops that are approved by the US Organic Standards. And, shockingly, the actual volume usage of pesticides on organic farms is not recorded by the government. Why the government isn’t keeping watch on organic pesticide and fungicide use is a damn good question, especially considering that many organic pesticides that are also used by conventional farmers are used more intensively than synthetic ones due to their lower levels of effectiveness. According to the National Center for Food and Agricultural Policy, the top two organic fungicides, copper and sulfur, were used at a rate of 4 and 34 pounds per acre in 1971 [1]. In contrast, the synthetic fungicides only required a rate of 1.6 lbs per acre, less than half the amount of the organic alternatives.

The sad truth is, factory farming is factory farming, whether its organic or conventional. Many large organic farms use pesticides liberally. They’re organic by certification, but you’d never know it if you saw their farming practices. As Michael Pollan, best-selling book author and organic supporter, said in an interview with Organic Gardening,

“They’re organic by the letter, not organic in spirit… if most organic consumers went to those places, they would feel they were getting ripped off.”

"Take the example of Rotenone. Rotenone was widely used in the US as an organic pesticide for decades 3. Because it is natural in origin, occurring in the roots and stems of a small number of subtropical plants, it was considered “safe” as well as “organic“. However, research has shown that rotenone is highly dangerous because it kills by attacking the mitochondria, the energy powerhouses of all living cells. Research found that exposure to rotenone caused Parkinson’s Disease-like symptoms in rats 4, and killed many species, including humans. Rotenone’s use as a pesticide has already been discontinued in the US as of 2005 due to health concerns, but shockingly, it’s still poured into our waters every year because it is approved for fisheries management use as a piscicide to remove unwanted fish species. The point I’m driving home here is that just because something is natural doesn’t make it non-toxic or safe. Many bacteria, fungi and plants produce poisons, toxins and chemicals that you wouldn’t want sprayed on your food."

There are many many many many many studies to show that it is better to use organic methods. AND you should try to use Certified organic products. What is your point use something we know is bad for us? I study this, I take classes in natural health and I had a serious autoimmune disease where my body was attacking itself. Do you know what is in your white bread, something called Alloxan that causes cancer, when they bleach out all the good stuff, yet the FDA approves this. You still haven't answered the hormones in milk which you seem to feel is ok. Wonder why your girls are growing breasts at 10 years old now? I changed my lifestyle including using organic products, trying for certified organic, and altogether healthier whole foods and my autoimmune disease has been in remission. Too lengthy to mention here. Yes, there should be more watching of the organic industry also. Yes somethings they put out there as natural or organic are not Certified Organic. http://www.naturalnews.com/alloxan.html

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

You refer an article from over 21 years ago - do you have the link to the sources?

http://nutritionwonderland.com/2009/12/the-truth-about-organic-farming/

"Myth: Organic Foods Are Free From Pesticides And Harmful Chemicals
The number one reason that I hear as to why to eat organic foods is that they have no pesticides or harmful compounds. I hate to burst your bubble, but that’s simply not true. Organic farming, just like other forms of agriculture, still uses pesticides and fungicides to prevent critters from destroying their crops. Confused?


NCFAP shows 'natural' pesticide use is dramatically higher than conventional produce
So was I, when I first learned this from my boyfriend. His family owns a farm in rural Ohio (a farm which isn’t organic simply because they use a non-organic herbicide once a year, though they use absolutely no pesticides). The local organic farms, he explained, spray their crops all the time with a variety of chemicals. I didn’t believe him at first, so I looked into it: turns out that there are over 20 chemicals commonly used in the growing and processing of organic crops that are approved by the US Organic Standards. And, shockingly, the actual volume usage of pesticides on organic farms is not recorded by the government. Why the government isn’t keeping watch on organic pesticide and fungicide use is a damn good question, especially considering that many organic pesticides that are also used by conventional farmers are used more intensively than synthetic ones due to their lower levels of effectiveness. According to the National Center for Food and Agricultural Policy, the top two organic fungicides, copper and sulfur, were used at a rate of 4 and 34 pounds per acre in 1971 [1]. In contrast, the synthetic fungicides only required a rate of 1.6 lbs per acre, less than half the amount of the organic alternatives.

The sad truth is, factory farming is factory farming, whether its organic or conventional. Many large organic farms use pesticides liberally. They’re organic by certification, but you’d never know it if you saw their farming practices. As Michael Pollan, best-selling book author and organic supporter, said in an interview with Organic Gardening,

“They’re organic by the letter, not organic in spirit… if most organic consumers went to those places, they would feel they were getting ripped off.”

"Take the example of Rotenone. Rotenone was widely used in the US as an organic pesticide for decades 3. Because it is natural in origin, occurring in the roots and stems of a small number of subtropical plants, it was considered “safe” as well as “organic“. However, research has shown that rotenone is highly dangerous because it kills by attacking the mitochondria, the energy powerhouses of all living cells. Research found that exposure to rotenone caused Parkinson’s Disease-like symptoms in rats 4, and killed many species, including humans. Rotenone’s use as a pesticide has already been discontinued in the US as of 2005 due to health concerns, but shockingly, it’s still poured into our waters every year because it is approved for fisheries management use as a piscicide to remove unwanted fish species. The point I’m driving home here is that just because something is natural doesn’t make it non-toxic or safe. Many bacteria, fungi and plants produce poisons, toxins and chemicals that you wouldn’t want sprayed on your food."

I don't want to burst your bubble either. A little more current info for you. At least shows what entails organic farming. I do agree that sometimes things labeled in stores, etc., are not really organic or "natural" as they state they are. That does need to change and we need to read ingredients, etc. A good way to handle this is to look for Certified Organic products. I still would rather use that than others. I have had it help me first hand. I do agree that the larger organic companies in the supermarkets are not the best way to go, compared to buying local fresh products from your local markets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming

 

[Toad_Passenger]

The sad truth is, factory farming is factory farming, whether its organic or conventional. Many large organic farms use pesticides liberally. They’re organic by certification, but you’d never know it if you saw their farming practices. As Michael Pollan, best-selling book author and organic supporter, said in an interview with Organic Gardening,

“They’re organic by the letter, not organic in spirit… if most organic consumers went to those places, they would feel they were getting ripped off.”

I've referenced Michael Pollen on these boards before. In The Omnivore's Dilemma he actually does look into how "Organic" has become just as industrialized as the food complex many are seeking to disengage from. Early on, I was fooled by this and bought a lot of my food at Whole Foods. Armed with a knack for seeking out knowledge I was able to find out that many of the brands and companies involved with Whole Foods, while certified Organic, are still putting a lot of unnecessary products and processing into their foods, in addition to shipping their products all over the country and burning more fossil fuels.

At this point I went in search of my local farmer. Thankfully I was able to find a local farmer who is a "grass" farmer as some have called them. He uses natural soil amendment and predators to grow his crops and his animals all eat their nature-intended diets.

We have a weekly farmer's market that gets underway in a few weeks, and I have befriended many of the farmers there. I know how they grow things, and I can then decide who to buy from and who not to buy from.

Knowledge really is power. Michael Pollen gave me the basis to start changing my dietary habits, and his frank exposure of the "Organic" industry helped me to seek things further.

I always tell people that I don't think Pollen is trying to tell anyone how to eat. He is just trying to make them more aware of what they're eating. I've said it countless times, people in America seem to be more concerned about where the components of their car come from than they are about the things going into their bodies!

 

[monkeybug]

I think it's great you're going to do more research and look into things. Be sure to read up on both sides of the debate, there's no better way to learn. You may change your opinion, you may not, but you'll be armed with information when making choices.

I don't know a lot about Amish farming methods... But they're producing food for a small population, so I wouldn't be surprised to find they're different in some ways. I know when I buy their tomatoes at the farmers market they sure taste good!

I buy produce from an Amish stand when I can and it is yummy!
I will say that despite any research, healthy or not healthy, the fresh produce we buy at farmers markets and stands tastes a whole lot better than the stuff they sell in the stores. Tomatoes and eggs especially! If for no other reason, I would join a CSA or buy local in the summer just for that one!

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

I've referenced Michael Pollen on these boards before. In The Omnivore's Dilemma he actually does look into how "Organic" has become just as industrialized as the food complex many are seeking to disengage from. Early on, I was fooled by this and bought a lot of my food at Whole Foods. Armed with a knack for seeking out knowledge I was able to find out that many of the brands and companies involved with Whole Foods, while certified Organic, are still putting a lot of unnecessary products and processing into their foods.

At this point I went in search of my local farmer. Thankfully I was able to find a local farmer who is a "grass" farmer as some have called them. He uses natural soil amendment and predators to grow his crops and his animals all eat their nature-intended diets.

We have a weekly farmer's market that gets underway in a few weeks, and I have befriended many of the farmers there. I know how they grow things, and I can then decide who to buy from and who not to buy from.

Knowledge really is power. Michael Pollen gave me the basis to start changing my dietary habits, and his frank exposure of the "Organic" industry helped me to seek things further.

I always tell people that I don't think Pollen is trying to tell anyone how to eat. He is just trying to make them more aware of what they're eating. I've said it countless times, people in America seem to be more concerned about where the components of their car come from than they are about the things going into their bodies!

I do agree that buying local organic products is the best. Some of these bigger companies that we see in our supermarkets are not the best way. Buying local is always better, it also helps your community, etc.

 

[monkeybug]

I've referenced Michael Pollen on these boards before. In The Omnivore's Dilemma he actually does look into how "Organic" has become just as industrialized as the food complex many are seeking to disengage from. Early on, I was fooled by this and bought a lot of my food at Whole Foods. Armed with a knack for seeking out knowledge I was able to find out that many of the brands and companies involved with Whole Foods, while certified Organic, are still putting a lot of unnecessary products and processing into their foods.

At this point I went in search of my local farmer. Thankfully I was able to find a local farmer who is a "grass" farmer as some have called them. He uses natural soil amendment and predators to grow his crops and his animals all eat their nature-intended diets.

We have a weekly farmer's market that gets underway in a few weeks, and I have befriended many of the farmers there. I know how they grow things, and I can then decide who to buy from and who not to buy from.

Knowledge really is power. Michael Pollen gave me the basis to start changing my dietary habits, and his frank exposure of the "Organic" industry helped me to seek things further.

I always tell people that I don't think Pollen is trying to tell anyone how to eat. He is just trying to make them more aware of what they're eating. I've said it countless times, people in America seem to be more concerned about where the components of their car come from than they are about the things going into their bodies!

I know our local whole foods does sell some things from small local farms. (along with I'm sure things from huge commercial farms) The first time we went to our whole foods we saw asparagus that was listed as being supplied by the farm we used to live across the street from. It's a smallish farm, with a weekend stand and a bunch of u-pick items. We still drive over to pick blueberries, strawberries, peaches, and cherries in the summer. We were excited to tell them we saw their asparagus in Whole foods, and they were excited about having it there.

 

[Ember]

There are many many many many many studies to show that it is better to use organic methods. AND you should try to use Certified organic products. What is your point use something we know is bad for us? I study this, I take classes in natural health and I had a serious autoimmune disease where my body was attacking itself. Do you know what is in your white bread, something called Alloxan that causes cancer, when they bleach out all the good stuff, yet the FDA approves this. You still haven't answered the hormones in milk which you seem to feel is ok. Wonder why your girls are growing breasts at 10 years old now? I changed my lifestyle including using organic products, trying for certified organic, and altogether healthier whole foods and my autoimmune disease has been in remission. Too lengthy to mention here. Yes, there should be more watching of the organic industry also. Yes somethings they put out there as natural or organic are not Certified Organic. http://www.naturalnews.com/alloxan.html

I don't want to diminish your feelings in anyway, but this is an example of confirmation bias. You eat organic and your autoimmune disease has been in remission. Those two facts are not necessarily linked. Also, personal experience has been shown many times to differ from what scientific study bares out. Again, you clearly feel strongly about this and I don't want you to feel you're being attacked, as that is not my intention.

As to the growing trend of girls reaching puberty at a younger age, we don't know why this is happening. Theories include the use of insecticides, the increase in childhood obesity, and the use of soy to name a few.