Do Obama supporters really, truly

[NVDisMom]

I agree, so give me my portion that the government took to bail out AIG, Fannie and Freddie, Iraq and the tax breaks that went to all the oil companies, tobacco industry and computer industry which I work for then shipped the jobs over to Pakistan and I'll gladly support my causes. I will gladly give you you portion back, when I get my portion. The bail out is HORRIBLE policy. Bush made sure that conservatives every where will remember him in infamy. But, remember Dem and Rep alike voted the damned thing in. Same with the Iraq war. It was unanimous, remember? Tax breaks, no matter who they benefit, do not cost us money. Gov't spending costs us money. The gov't taxes us and corporations to pay for their out of control spending. More tax cuts need to be implemented, and less nonessential gov't spending. Our gov't has not been good stewards of our coffers.

let's see in August we lost 84,000 jobs, In september we lost 159,00 jobs so I can really tell all those tax cuts are really helping companies employ more people.And more taxes are going to help how? The job losses will get worse if we up the taxes on corporations. More and more of them will fail to see the benefits of doing business here. Some will leave the game completely, others will take their business(and the jobs they are providing) elsewhere.

trikle down works no better than trikle up and if they are supposed to be taking care of the infrastructure why are our Public schools almost dead last among industrialized nations and our health care system a joke? I would think good schools and adequate health care would be in the best intrest of the nation.Public school and health care are not infastructure.

Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's rain water. The only thing that tax breaks for the rich do is benefit the rich.

Tax breaks to the rich benefit the rich, wealth redistribution benefits the poor. A tax break is the gov't NOT TAKING money that was earned. Wealth redistribution is robbing from one to give to another that did not EARN it. That money belongs to the person who earns it, period. If you want it, go EARN it.

 

[chrisw127]

If we are not safe and our national interests secured, it won't matter a hill of beans how many kids are suffering from cancer with no insurance.

I think it's important that we keep a military presence overseas however, I think doing so has more of a psychological benefit for our allies than it does to actually protect them and our interests (the exception being S. Korea). It's true that in the 50s and 60s, our presence in Germany probably kept the Russians from attacking West Germany, although even that is debatable. But we and our so-called enemies don't fight wars like that anymore. Our military is highly mobile and can deploy from anywhere in the world. In fact, that's exactly what they're trained to do. There's little benefit in deploying a Brigade of soldiers from Germany to Iraq vs deploying one from North Carolina. I suppose if you're still worried that the Russians are going to come through the Fulda Gap, then you might not agree with that, but otherwise, I think it's outdated to think we absolutely have to have bases overseas, at least in some areas.

 

[Bobbles]

What absolute crap and a lie fed to you by the left...

Like any of the lies you have swallowed from the right are any better?

 

[Master Mason]

Illegal immigration hurts the poor. And it can be stopped very easily.

I am all for stoping Illegal immigration, please share with us exactly how it can be stopped very easily, I'm all ears.

 

[Colleen27]

Because some of us don't believe in class warfare, if they earned it they should keep it. If I wanted more money I should have made different life choices.

If class warfare exists in this country, it is not in the time-tested idea of progressive taxation but rather in the increasing disrespect for those who work for a living and the subtle but insidious belief that the wealthy are more deserving by virtue of their wealth. Look at the public discourse surrounding unions, the working class, and health care and you'll see it loud and clear - "how DARE those people think they deserve a living wage and benefits in return for working hard every day! don't they know they're destroying American manufacturing? if only they'd compete with the wages companies can pay Indians or Pakistanis or Chinese, companies wouldn't be outsourcing! if they wanted to be able to support their families, they should have gone to college".

Taxing the wealthy is not class warfare. It is smart economics. Deriding the majority of the workforce as undeserving of a basic standard of living, on the other hand, is class warfare pure and simple.

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

Nope I am saying that if our bases in Japan closed then we would leave our Japanese allies at the hands of the chinese, who would love to come on over and take over japan. I am saying that if we didn't have our bases in Germany that we couldn't react quickly to things that happen on that side of the globe that effect our national interest.

You want to take our money to help Japan? to help Europe? How does that help working people who have to pay for it? That sounds like redistribution of wealth to me.

 

[sha_lyn]

End illegal immigration and wages would increase no matter what happened to the overseas bases. Illegal immigration hurts the poor. And it can be stopped very easily.

You won't get an argument out of me that something needs to be done about illegal immigrations. However I have a feeling we might just disagree with what needs to be done.

 

[sandy6879]

Whenever I hear the question of "Whatever happened to taking care of ourselves?", I want to scream. Greed happened. Government bailouts of corporations happened. CEOs making 400 times what they pay their average workers happened. Do you think the working class doesn't *want* to be able to provide for their families? They CAN'T! They're dealing with higher costs all around, falling wages, and the constant threat of outsourcing if they do happen to push for a livable wage or reasonable benefits.

I tend to agree that democracy is a time-limited system, not because of the common man seeking greater benefit from government but because it is just a matter of time before an entrenched upper glass develops. When government is as intimately intertwined with that upper class as it is today, the common man feels his voice is meaningless, and democracy begins to crumble through apathy. And I think we're very nearly there. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a major upheaval in our systems of government and economics in my lifetime.

I agree. I highly doubt that our country/economic system/government, the way we know it, will exist by the end of my lifetime. We have hit the breaking point for many people and it's starting to crumble. It's scaring a lot of those who benefitted the most, and empowering those who got the least. It'll be a very interesting change to watch in upcoming years.

 

[NVDisMom]

I really think I must be reading this wrong. It's now considered a perk to fight in a war?

No its not a perk. Those weapons systems keep more of our men from fighting on the ground.

 

[Charade]

I think attitudes like this are a big problem in the world today, not exclusive to the United States -- everyone's so focused on ME ME ME, and many are not willing to help out their fellow man.

I don't see a problem with imposing higher taxes on those who make $$$$$, if the end result is a better way of life for all people.


Okay.. flame suit's on..

BTW, I won't be offended if anyone calls me a socialist, which I imagine is going to happen in 3...2...1...

Well, it is MY money. I earned it. I should get to keep as much of it as possible. And I want the government to spend MY money as if it WERE my money.

Why is that a problem for you socialists? If you want to give more, write the IRS a check. They'll cash it.

Please answer this question honestly. Do you utilize any of the available tax deductions and/or credits when it comes April 15th?

 

[Master Mason]

I think it's important that we keep a military presence overseas however, I think doing so has more of a psychological benefit for our allies than it does to actually protect them and our interests (the exception being S. Korea). It's true that in the 50s and 60s, our presence in Germany probably kept the Russians from attacking West Germany, although even that is debatable. But we and our so-called enemies don't fight wars like that anymore. Our military is highly mobile and can deploy from anywhere in the world. In fact, that's exactly what they're trained to do. There's little benefit in deploying a Brigade of soldiers from Germany to Iraq vs deploying one from North Carolina. I suppose if you're still worried that the Russians are going to come through the Fulda Gap, then you might not agree with that, but otherwise, I think it's outdated to think we absolutely have to have bases overseas, at least in some areas.

A bridage consists of 1500 to 3200 people, you honestly believe we could move that size force from NC to Iraq as quickly as we could from Germany?

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

I am all for stoping Illegal immigration, please share with us exactly how it can be stopped very easily, I'm all ears.

New law: hire an illegal, do hard time. How 'bout 6 months first offense, and increase it after that. If nobody hires an illegal, why would they still come here?

 

[Master Mason]

New law: hire an illegal, do hard time. How 'bout 6 months first offense, and increase it after that. If nobody hires an illegal, why would they still come here?

I'd be for that.

 

[Charade]

New law: hire an illegal, do hard time. How 'bout 6 months first offense, and increase it after that. If nobody hires an illegal, why would they still come here?

What happens to the illegal?

 

[Colleen27]

I am all for stoping Illegal immigration, please share with us exactly how it can be stopped very easily, I'm all ears.

Meaningful penalties and some resources for enforcement would go a long way. There's a roofing company that we compete with that uses illegal labor. Everyone knows it and many of the men in DH's circle have called to report it because it is killing the ability of legal companies to compete. Every time, they're told "We just don't have the resources to follow up on every call". Meanwhile, the owner of this company (who used to be a friend of ours before he changed his business practices and thus lost our respect) brags that with the current penalties for employing illegals, he'd have to be caught 3 times before the fines even equal the money he's saving by using illegal labor.

Deporting illegals isn't the answer. They'll just come back, or be replaced by another. The answer is to fine businesses caught employing illegals, and fine them so heavily that it is a meaningful penalty (none of this $500 per employee - a roofing company using illegal labor is saving that much per employee in about 2 weeks' time). Make it enough of a risk to use illegal labor and businesses will stop doing it, but the government is loathe to do that because those businesses and trade groups that benefit from illegal labor have a much stronger lobby than the working people who are losing jobs and seeing wages fall because of illegals.

 

[chrisw127]

A bridage consists of 1500 to 3200 people, you honestly believe we could move that size force from NC to Iraq as quickly as we could from Germany?

Yes. And I can prove it!

How long were you in the army for?

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

A bridage consists of 1500 to 3200 people, you honestly believe we could move that size force from NC to Iraq as quickly as we could from Germany?

Iraq? FOR WHAT? How about we end that war, I'm sick of my wealth being redistributed to Haklliburton and other corporations with no benefit to our security.

 

[JonS99]

Like any of the lies you have swallowed from the right are any better?

No, its factual.. Capital Gains and dividend taxes are double taxation, so stop throwing out the lies that you were..

I am also sick of the Obama garbage of "tax cuts for the wealthy", why doesn't he say what it really is, being "lets screw the wealthy even more by taxing them at an even higher rate".... One candidate wants to treat ALL of us the same, another wants to treat 95% of us one way, the other 5% the other way... What if someone wanted to treat Asians(I am guessing, they might make up 5% of the population) one way and the rest of the people another.. How would that fly???

 

[Master Mason]

You want to take our money to help Japan? to help Europe? How does that help working people who have to pay for it? That sounds like redistribution of wealth to me.

Nope not redistribution. How about those cheap electronics you purchase that are made in japan, or the huge number of japanese cars that are currently on our roads. The average citizen is the one purchasing those items. That is one example.

Free trade, balance of power, those are important things to the US as a whole, not just to rich people. Keeping mad men away from the nuclear arms that is in the best interest of all the people.

And with that I am done with this discussion, I'm not going to continue to argue when you refuse to look at the big picture.

 

[Master Mason]

Yes. And I can prove it!

How long were you in the army for?

By all means please show me the proof.