Do cast members still use the constant "princess" label?

Lilsia

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
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I really don't understand why wanting to be treated with respect is dismissed as acting like the world revolves around them.
It has zero to do with respect and I think that you are making this out to be bigger then it is. This is about cast members not call someone princess. They are not disrespecting anyone by doing that. It is almost like an automatic greeting like sir and mam. Making that out to be that they are being disrespected because they are called princess is blowing it way out of proportion. And frankly, attitudes like that is why there is so much strife in the world. People are too quick to get offended over nothing now. I am a woman and have been called sir on accident, as I am sure others have and vice versa. People make mistakes. And as others have stated, they can't possibly know how everyone wants to be greeted.
 

Chuck S

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Feb 6, 2000
Lilsia, I can not possibly fully understand what it must be like to be gender fluid/non-specific or non-conforming, much less to be transgender. But I do know that constantly being greeted with the wrong gender specific title must be extremely frustrating, and to a degree embarrassing. It certainly IS a matter of respect to TRY to address them as they wish to be addressed, no humans aren't perfect, mistakes will happen, but anything they can do within reason to help minimize the occurrences is good, and should be respected. I can't imagine someone thinking otherwise, or that it isn't about simple, common respect.
 
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Lilsia

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Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Lilsia, I can not possibly fully understand what it must be like to be gender fluid/non-specific or non-conforming, much less to be transgender. But I do know that constantly being greeted with the wrong gender specific title must be extremely frustrating, and to a degree embarrassing. It certainly IS a matter of respect to TRY to address them as they wish to be addressed, no humans aren't perfect, mistakes will happen, but anything they can do within reason to help minimize the occurrences is good, and should be respected. I can't imagine someone thinking otherwise, or that it isn't about simple, common respect.
So you think it is better to constantly bring to everyone's attention that this child is transgender? You don't think that that is embarrassing and frustrating to have Mom constantly bring it up? Every single transaction with someone you are going to say, "by the way, address my child as a male". We are not talking about your day to day life with people you see all the time. This is WDW where you probably won't see the same person twice. And again, you are all missing the point. I never said that people should not address people how they want them to. I said that in a place like WDW, it is futile, and more then likely more of a emotional burden to try to correct every single person instead of choosing to ignore it. I would imagine it is more embarrassing to a 14 yo for Mom to keep correcting people then to just let it go.
 
  • Chuck S

    DVC Co-Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Feb 6, 2000
    There is a big difference between wearing a pin or button and a helicopter mom running interference. A button is passive. I've re-read this thread, and I don't see anyone mentioning that Mom should run up and pre-inform every character or CM. That isn't reasonable. A passive button on the other hand is certainly something that can be done, and something the characters and CM are trained to look for, and it isn't invasive or offensive.
     

    DISNEY1975

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 5, 2008
    Yes they still use "princess", but only until around age 8. None of my teens have gotten "princess" after they were 10, though I do hear it around me when there are little ones. I think your 14 yo will be fine.
     

    kuhltiffany

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 28, 2011
    Wow, such an innocent question turned into issues for some. As a social worker I wonder why some have chosen to push themselves to extreme reactions about this...

    No, I'm not a helicopter mom, just one who likes to be prepared. We're also Canadian and don't have the same prejudices to deal with up here, acceptance is mostly mainstream now, thank goodness.

    My child is now 15 and finds it quite interesting to see how they're perceived, and does not take offence to be assumed one gender or another.

    We're off to Disneyland Paris next week, guess we'll see how things are over there!
     

    Lilsia

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 17, 2018
    Wow, such an innocent question turned into issues for some. As a social worker I wonder why some have chosen to push themselves to extreme reactions about this...

    No, I'm not a helicopter mom, just one who likes to be prepared. We're also Canadian and don't have the same prejudices to deal with up here, acceptance is mostly mainstream now, thank goodness.

    My child is now 15 and finds it quite interesting to see how they're perceived, and does not take offence to be assumed one gender or another.

    We're off to Disneyland Paris next week, guess we'll see how things are over there!
    Nobody said that they were in any way offended or have any kind of prejudice against transgender people. YOU are saying that. The issue being discussed is what to say to cast members, and even whether or not to say anything at all. That's it. My stance is that is not practical or even possible to be correcting any cast member who might happen to call someone princess. The cast members are not doing it to be mean and why embarrass and correct them when they can only go by what is obvious visually to them. That would only lead to cast members not saying it at all to anyone for fear of being "wrong". The best course is to just ignore it.
     
  • MickyLynn

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Apr 5, 2019
    What's embarrassing is consistently using the wrong pronouns/honorifics because nobody has clarified it for you.

    And for whom is ignoring it the best course? Not the OP, clearly. What's the harm to everyone else if they decide to reserve it only for those in princess merch or costuming, or find a gender neutral alternative?

    Generally speaking, if option 1 makes a few people uncomfortable, but option 2 doesn't, why wouldn't you switch to option 2? Isn't that just common sense in addition to good manners?
     

    Lilsia

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 17, 2018
    What's embarrassing is consistently using the wrong pronouns/honorifics because nobody has clarified it for you.

    And for whom is ignoring it the best course? Not the OP, clearly. What's the harm to everyone else if they decide to reserve it only for those in princess merch or costuming, or find a gender neutral alternative?

    Generally speaking, if option 1 makes a few people uncomfortable, but option 2 doesn't, why wouldn't you switch to option 2? Isn't that just common sense in addition to good manners?
    Because the world does not revolve around a small minority of people. I rather teach my kids how to cope in the world we live in so they can find a balance, then expect everyone else to change for them. That is unreasonable.
     

    marchingstar

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    Jun 18, 2014
    Because the world does not revolve around a small minority of people. I rather teach my kids how to cope in the world we live in so they can find a balance, then expect everyone else to change for them. That is unreasonable.
    one of the ways we minorities cope is finding and building supportive spaces. Like this community on the boards. You don’t need to come into a “minority” space and explain why our needs are unreasonable. This is especially so on this thread. We’re talking about making Disney an enjoyable experience for a kid.

    You’ve heard many times from us and our allies why your comments are unhelpful and rude. Our needs are not unreasonable. What’s unreasonable is your behavior. I think you need to consider not trying to have the last word, and see yourself out of this space.
     

    Lilsia

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 17, 2018
    one of the ways we minorities cope is finding and building supportive spaces. Like this community on the boards. You don’t need to come into a “minority” space and explain why our needs are unreasonable. This is especially so on this thread. We’re talking about making Disney an enjoyable experience for a kid.

    You’ve heard many times from us and our allies why your comments are unhelpful and rude. Our needs are not unreasonable. What’s unreasonable is your behavior. I think you need to consider not trying to have the last word, and see yourself out of this space.
    I am not "trying to have the last word", and I stand by my statements. You have no idea who or what I am. And this mentality that everyone has to conform to every single person's idea of how they think life should be is not realistic and even borders on narcissistic. Everyone needs to do the best they can and learn to live in society.
     
  • kuhltiffany

    DIS Veteran
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    Dec 28, 2011
    I am not "trying to have the last word", and I stand by my statements. You have no idea who or what I am. And this mentality that everyone has to conform to every single person's idea of how they think life should be is not realistic and even borders on narcissistic. Everyone needs to do the best they can and learn to live in society.
    Hmmm, I see you're struggling with this concept, as you keep stressing that we need to get on board with your idea of what's typical. I'm guessing where I live (my "society") and you live, have totally different levels of conservative ideology . Here we embrace differences and accept people the way they are. We don't assume that everyone leads a cookie cutter life. How sad that you do. Makes life interesting!
     

    Lilsia

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    Feb 17, 2018
    Hmmm, I see you're struggling with this concept, as you keep stressing that we need to get on board with your idea of what's typical. I'm guessing where I live (my "society") and you live, have totally different levels of conservative ideology . Here we embrace differences and accept people the way they are. We don't assume that everyone leads a cookie cutter life. How sad that you do. Makes life interesting!
    That is not at all what I am saying. You are completely fabricating that. But that is what people do now, isn't it? Constantly accusing others of either being racist, sexist, xenophobic, intolerant, etc when they have a difference of opinion. I in now way, gave the indication that I or anyone else, should not embrace differences. Again, YOU just said that, not me. Take away the OP's situation and make into anything else. If someone addresses you in a general way(like society has been doing since the beginning of it) because that is how you appear, and you will never see that person again, then what is the point of trying to always correct people. It serves no purpose other then to make yourself feel better by "setting them straight". I am saying that it is much better for your mental health to learn to not let it bother you and move on. You can only control how you let things affect you. And you made the comment about a cookie cutter life. That is exactly what you are trying to do. I am talking about the complete opposite. Others were posting about how cast members should drop the Princess comment so as not to offend anyone. THAT is exactly what making life cookie cutter is. Turning society into this homogeneous existence by calling everyone by some neutral term so that no one is "offended" is what you all are advocating. How sad that YOU don't see that.
     

    DisLiss

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 2, 2018
    I think this will be a good life lesson on how the world is not perfect. Sometimes people will call you Mam or Sir, especially when it is not obvious. No one ever does that to be mean. Learning to brush it off is a better way to handle this. The button idea is fine, but a cast member might not look at it, since many guests wear buttons. It is important to learn how to deal with this and 14 is old enough. I know that as a parent, we want an our children's life to be easy and happy. The world is neither. I would talk to your child about what they think and how they want to handle it. It is not worth ruining a vacation over being called a princess.
    Any time we take our kids anywhere, we always go over Plan A and Plan B, sometimes Plan C, too. In other words, we let them know what we'll do to try to have our day or trip or visit go in all the ways we'd most like, but we also point out that things rarely all go exactly as you wish, and here are some of the ways we can deal with that. And that's exactly how I took the original post.

    I don't see the OP saying the vacation would be ruined. They just want to try to make something more easily apparent to the CMs they come across. Last time they didn't do anything to make things more easily understood by the CMS, and this time they'd like to up their odds a bit. Just like everyone else who wears a button of any kind to a Disney park. :) I'm sure they are well aware that not every CM will notice their button, or that they may give a greeting before they can see the button..a cast is noticeable from further away than a button, I imagine. :) But if last time 10 CMs gave the non-preferred greeting, and a button brings that number down to 2 or 3, then I'd say that's a positive change, and we all like to find ways to make each new experience a more positive one. :)
     

    MickyLynn

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Apr 5, 2019
    If someone addresses you in a general way(like society has been doing since the beginning of it) because that is how you appear, and you will never see that person again, then what is the point of trying to always correct people. It serves no purpose other then to make yourself feel better by "setting them straight". I am saying that it is much better for your mental health to learn to not let it bother you and move on.
    The whole point is that it makes said person feel better to be acknowledged as they are. That is a valid goal. Even if you strip away all of the societal baggage at play here, making everyone comfortable is in fact the point of the hospitality industry, and customer service, and basic etiquette.

    Everyone involved in this hypothetical interaction (which happens entirely outside of your presence) has this shared goal, and is looking for the best way to achieve it. You don't get to tell either person what would or should be better for them in your opinion, based on convenience for everyone else. How someone else feels isn't up to anyone else, that much is true. This is how she and her family feel. They are allowed to feel like they should speak up about something that bothers them, and seek a reasonable proactive course of action. You are allowed to feel like you should stay quiet if it doesn't bother you.
     

    MooseBucks

    Living the Dream
    Joined
    Feb 12, 2017
    We were at WDW a few weeks ago and happily my daughters were called “your highness” on 2 ocassions both were with characters and I definitely noticed a decrease in them being called “Princess” in general (they are 6 & 3). Felt like steps in the right direction and hopefully “your highness” catches on.

    Our 3mo son was called a little Olaf by Princess Anna And she self corrected herself and said excuse me a mean little snow flake. That was refreshing that while she made an assumption she then adjusted.

    I do love the button ideas above! Hopefully they find more and more nutral titles to use so everyone feels comfortable
     

    Lilsia

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 17, 2018
    The whole point is that it makes said person feel better to be acknowledged as they are. That is a valid goal. Even if you strip away all of the societal baggage at play here, making everyone comfortable is in fact the point of the hospitality industry, and customer service, and basic etiquette.

    Everyone involved in this hypothetical interaction (which happens entirely outside of your presence) has this shared goal, and is looking for the best way to achieve it. You don't get to tell either person what would or should be better for them in your opinion, based on convenience for everyone else. How someone else feels isn't up to anyone else, that much is true. This is how she and her family feel. They are allowed to feel like they should speak up about something that bothers them, and seek a reasonable proactive course of action. You are allowed to feel like you should stay quiet if it doesn't bother you.
    Yes because now people are more concerned with themselves and what is best for them , aren't they. People used to be more concerned with making sure others were happy and comfortable. Look at how these changes have turned society into a bunch of entitled, self-centered, rude jerks. It's me, me, me, me, me, and if you don't think and act like I want you to, then you are the worst person on the planet and I'm going to make sure that everyone knows what kind of horrible person you are. That is how people are acting now. In their efforts to make everyone conform to being "a good person", they themselves are being the rude, intolerant ones. It's OK if someone disagrees with you. You don't have to attack them for it. Just move on. And I believe this is a discussion forum where people ask for other's opinion. Why would you feel that it is OK to tell someone that their opinion is not valid just because it opposes yours? You do see what you are doing right?
     

    SaraJR

    DIS Veteran
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    Apr 23, 2015
    Just Block Lilsia she clearly doesn't get or care that she is being problematic and only doubles down. No one is going to make her rethink and she just keeps going and going. If no one gives her attention she will move on.
     

    kuhltiffany

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 28, 2011
    Funny you should say that, I took a look at other posts they have commented on...seems that being a troll and calling people out are their specialty :rolleyes:popcorn:::stir:

    Anyway, I asked an innocent question, thanks to all for your support of our youngsters. They will be the ones who make the world a better place where everyone can be accepted and appreciated...

    Just Block Lilsia she clearly doesn't get or care that she is being problematic and only doubles down. No one is going to make her rethink and she just keeps going and going. If no one gives her attention she will move on.
     

    sweetpeama

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 30, 2013
    I think no matter what handling things with grace is important.
    When my older daughter was 3 she got a hold of scissors and those of you who are parents can guess what happened. Yes she gave herself a haircut in fact it was cut so short that by the time a hairdresser evened it out nothing was more than 1/2 an inch. Even dressing her in pink, dresses, and frilly outfits I got what an adorable little boy you have. I would just smile and say thank you I think my little girl is just adorable too.
    Contrast that with a girl who was in a music and arts set of classes with her for a number of years. For the first 2-3 years this girl went by one name which was feminine and the last year she went by another feminine name and would not only get mad when classmates in a very small group who had known her by one name would forget and use that name rather than the other. Even though the names were no where near each other and the one was not a shortened form of the other. Not only that this girl would go and tattle to the teacher and the rest of them especially my daughter would get in trouble. My daughter was the one getting in trouble because I have taught her to stand up for herself in a respectful way and the instructor for these classes had the attitude of that is wrong.
     

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