Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[WendyinNC]

Well, I was upset by this change at first since I have a small 55 point add on at HH that I was planning on using for a Sunday - Thurs. night stay in a 2BR in the summer every 3 years. I was trying to decide whether I should sell this contract, keep it and just use it for misc. 7 month points, or add on. Well, I guess I'm drinking too much Koolaid because I just put in an offer on a 150 point HH re-sale. Now I will have enough points for a Sunday - Thurs. night stay every summer. That is, until they change the points chart again.

 

[bobbiwoz]

Well, I was upset by this change at first since I have a small 55 point add on at HH that I was planning on using for a Sunday - Thurs. night stay in a 2BR in the summer every 3 years. I was trying to decide whether I should sell this contract, keep it and just use it for misc. 7 month points, or add on. Well, I guess I'm drinking too much Koolaid because I just put in an offer on a 150 point HH re-sale. Now I will have enough points for a Sunday - Thurs. night stay every summer. That is, until they change the points chart again.

Congratulations, I hope you pass! I've never been to HH, but as much as I love the Jersey Shore, and VB...I'm sure I would love it as much as you do. I'm glad you'll be seeing more if it!
Bobbi

 

[jekjones1558]

Well, I guess I'm drinking too much Koolaid because I just put in an offer on a 150 point HH re-sale. Now I will have enough points for a Sunday - Thurs. night stay every summer

I am green with envy. I made my first trip to HHI last May and fell in love. Good luck on ROFR!

 

[jenelope]

As far as SSR owners mucking up the system, that is understandable because there are so many of us, but any DVC member would want to stay at the Epcot resorts during F&W. I would think by the seventh month window rooms for that time would be few and far between anyway. If you don't want to get blocked out of your home resort, make your reservation before the seven month window opens.

I actually haven't wanted to stay at the Epcot resorts at any time, including F&W. It never seemed worth the hassle of trying to make a ressie at 7 months when my home resort used fewer points for the same time and I could make my plans earlier. Besides, I'm one of those people who likes to leave the theme parks behind at the end of the day, so SSR suits me just fine. But, now that my home resort takes exactly the same number of points for a F&W Festival week, I'm more inclined to try for an Epcot resort. I think if there were other point-thrifty SSR owners out there and they start thinking the same way, it's going to make it next to impossible for anyone to get the Epcot resort studios.

 

[Anal Annie]

When Disney originally set up the high cost for weekends the justification was that they were concerned that locals ( Fl residents) would book up all the weekends and that people wanting longer trips would find they may have to check out mid stay and move to another resort or just go home. I will guess that with time and changes in the way many of the members now vacation Disney has realized that perhaps they were a little too extreme with their original costing differences and what has happened is the exact opposite of what they wanted to avoid, but has the same result, in that weekdays are full and weekends not so, still an inconvenience by limiting booking options/availability.

This is certainly an issue to the members as it is impacting availability. Perhaps more of a driving reason to the change is that the available rooms that Disney has to rent out in order to pay for cash bookings (concierge collection or cruises) are high point cost weekend nights. Disney can earn much more revenue from, for example, 50 points by using it for 5 nights midweek than it can by charging granted slightly more per night but only having 2 nights at a weekend. I.E. 5X$250 per night = $1250 vs 2X$350=$700
Every time I get a cash price on a DVC unit the weekdays and weekends are the exactly same price. They don't separate them in any way with their pricing. A Wed. is the same cash rate as a Saturday. So this move would solve nothing in that respect. I just looked on the website today in fact to see what the cash price would've been for our vacation this summer. All 7 n at BCV were the same price per night.

By leveling out demand over the week it will, hopefully, benefit members by having more members (mostly Fl residents) using their points at weekends therefore freeing up more weekdays for all of us. I hope that if it does, as I believe, mean Disney can become more efficient at raising revenue from the points members exchange back for cash cost usages. Hopefully it will allow DVC to reduce the points cost for those options as they will be able to raise more money from those cash rentals rather than just pocket the difference.

I'm sorry to laugh. But that last bit's kinda funny. I think you might be sipping on the so-called koolaid too! DVC ain't about to turn around and give us anything back in return, especially a better rate on something.

 

[tjkraz]

I'm sorry to laugh. But that's kinda funny. I think you might be sipping on the so-called koolaid too! DVC ain't about to turn around and give us anything back in return, especially a better rate on something.

The point values for booking outside of the DVC resorts are reviewed at least once annually and there have been times where they were adjusted in members' favor. IIRC, about 2 years ago the cost for using points toward DCL went down from the prior year.

 

[Anal Annie]

The point values for booking outside of the DVC resorts are reviewed at least once annually and there have been times where they were adjusted in members' favor. IIRC, about 2 years ago the cost for using points toward DCL went down from the prior year.

STOP it! You're gonna make milk come out my nose!

 

[BroganMc]

But, now that my home resort takes exactly the same number of points for a F&W Festival week, I'm more inclined to try for an Epcot resort. I think if there were other point-thrifty SSR owners out there and they start thinking the same way, it's going to make it next to impossible for anyone to get the Epcot resort studios.

I was just thinking that myself. I know seeing points equalize for VWL, BWV, BCV and SSR for Choice sure made me more interested in booking stays elsewhere.

In other news, I had a call from Member Satisfaction Team today. Talked for a long time about the point reallocation and how it affects us. CM said she had gotten a lot of response about how poor the communication was. I also questioned the legality of adjusting the charts for occupancy on BLT before the resort had been booked to show occupancy traits. She wrote down my suggestions about how to address the needs of BLT owners.

My main points were:

• raising the weekly totals caused the appearance of devaluing an existing contract with point inflation (That seems to betray Disney's sales approach of locking in resort prices.)
• poor communications and the sloppy handling of the website release gives the appearance Disney is trying to mistreat owners by dictating and not being forthright.
• violation of BLT contract sitpulation for how and when a point reallocation was made
• point chart calculations are not adding up in every calculation I've done or seen, need to see some numbers to justify that the charts are truly balanced
• The change will not encourage me to stay weekends but rather to drop a vacation day a year
• BLT owners were abused with the minimum point add-on being raised a week before these new charts were released. I suggested Disney allow a one time sub-100 point add-on purchase for all BLT buyers prior to Jan 15 to make up the difference in their contracts.

I'm not sure if upper management will listen or do anything about it. We also talked about unrelated things like the switch to RCI and the 7 day booking. And I made a request to have that RCI announcement on the phone shortened or bypassed. I'm so sick of having to sit through the same spiel again and again.

CM Joy had a good demeanor and tried to stress how much Disney valued its members, but I drove home the point that the latest actions did not give that appearance at all. Changing those weekly totals is probably the biggest no-no on average. She mentioned that the annual DVC Planners will be going out in the next couple weeks and expects a lot more feedback from members as they get the news of the changed charts. We speculated that many members do not know of the change yet and many will react negatively.

And I closed with the mentioned that because of these sudden changes, I'm stilling my tongue in encouraging new buyers. I made the comparison to my Marriott ownership and that it seemed the better program as of now.

 

[tjkraz]

STOP it! You're gonna make milk come out my nose!

In 2005, 7-night Eastern cruise, Cat 11, Value season was 141 points per adult. As of 2008 that same cruise / cabin / season was 133 points per adult.

And that's just one example. All of the cruise points went down.

DVC also altered the Disneyland points structure from a flat amount every night of the week to the weighted weekday / weekend rates we have now. In 2005 a Grand Californian Standard View, Value Season, was a fixed 39 points per night regardless of the day of the week. By 2008 the same room was 19 points per weeknight and 30 points per Fri-Sat night.

Try not to choke.

 

[LIFERBABE]

I was just thinking that myself. I know seeing points equalize for VWL, BWV, BCV and SSR for Choice sure made me more interested in booking stays elsewhere.

In other news, I had a call from Member Satisfaction Team today. Talked for a long time about the point reallocation and how it affects us. CM said she had gotten a lot of response about how poor the communication was. I also questioned the legality of adjusting the charts for occupancy on BLT before the resort had been booked to show occupancy traits. She wrote down my suggestions about how to address the needs of BLT owners.

My main points were:

• raising the weekly totals caused the appearance of devaluing an existing contract with point inflation (That seems to betray Disney's sales approach of locking in resort prices.)
• poor communications and the sloppy handling of the website release gives the appearance Disney is trying to mistreat owners by dictating and not being forthright.
• violation of BLT contract sitpulation for how and when a point reallocation was made
• point chart calculations are not adding up in every calculation I've done or seen, need to see some numbers to justify that the charts are truly balanced
• The change will not encourage me to stay weekends but rather to drop a vacation day a year
• BLT owners were abused with the minimum point add-on being raised a week before these new charts were released. I suggested Disney allow a one time sub-100 point add-on purchase for all BLT buyers prior to Jan 15 to make up the difference in their contracts.

I'm not sure if upper management will listen or do anything about it. We also talked about unrelated things like the switch to RCI and the 7 day booking. And I made a request to have that RCI announcement on the phone shortened or bypassed. I'm so sick of having to sit through the same spiel again and again.

CM Joy had a good demeanor and tried to stress how much Disney valued its members, but I drove home the point that the latest actions did not give that appearance at all. Changing those weekly totals is probably the biggest no-no on average. She mentioned that the annual DVC Planners will be going out in the next couple weeks and expects a lot more feedback from members as they get the news of the changed charts. We speculated that many members do not know of the change yet and many will react negatively.

And I closed with the mentioned that because of these sudden changes, I'm stilling my tongue in encouraging new buyers. I made the comparison to my Marriott ownership and that it seemed the better program as of now.

Thank you Brogan, I think you did an excellent job

My sentiments exactly!

I haven't liked Kool-Aid since I was a child. Ever since I watched that made-for-tv movie. That and we always had a lack of sugar at our house.

 

[Anal Annie]

In 2005, 7-night Eastern cruise, Cat 11, Value season was 141 points per adult. As of 2008 that same cruise / cabin / season was 133 points per adult.

And that's just one example. All of the cruise points went down.

DVC also altered the Disneyland points structure from a flat amount every night of the week to the weighted weekday / weekend rates we have now. In 2005 a Grand Californian Standard View, Value Season, was a fixed 39 points per night regardless of the day of the week. By 2008 the same room was 19 points per weeknight and 30 points per Fri-Sat night.

Try not to choke.

And our 2008 4 nighter in a Cat 10 went from 392 points last year to 473 points in 2010. An increase of 81 points for 4 nights. (I'm still choking on THAT one.)

 

[tjkraz]

And our 2008 4 nighter in a Cat 10 went from 392 points last year to 473 points in 2010. An increase of 81 points for 4 nights. (I'm still choking on THAT one.)

And I would expect future adjustments--either up or down--in response to how the value of points changes following the reallocation.

 

[SunnieRN]

Ok, absolutely no offense ment, I think saratoga springs is absolutely gorgeous and I love the "feel" of the resort and the decor is bright, relaxing and very easy to live with, but... what is the purpose of making it the same point cost as the epcot resorts in Oct during food and wine?
The only thing I could figure out is that being the largest resort, and the popularity of F&W that Disney figures there will be a greater demand for rooms at that time as popularity for the event keeps growing. This in turn will increase the points used during the food and wine festival as SS can take in a lot of "overflow" from the smaller resorts. Hmmm smart move disney, inless it clogs up all the other resorts that are the same points and more convienient.

 

[Dean]

I was just thinking that myself. I know seeing points equalize for VWL, BWV, BCV and SSR for Choice sure made me more interested in booking stays elsewhere.

In other news, I had a call from Member Satisfaction Team today. Talked for a long time about the point reallocation and how it affects us. CM said she had gotten a lot of response about how poor the communication was. I also questioned the legality of adjusting the charts for occupancy on BLT before the resort had been booked to show occupancy traits. She wrote down my suggestions about how to address the needs of BLT owners.

My main points were:

• raising the weekly totals caused the appearance of devaluing an existing contract with point inflation (That seems to betray Disney's sales approach of locking in resort prices.)
• poor communications and the sloppy handling of the website release gives the appearance Disney is trying to mistreat owners by dictating and not being forthright.
• violation of BLT contract sitpulation for how and when a point reallocation was made
• point chart calculations are not adding up in every calculation I've done or seen, need to see some numbers to justify that the charts are truly balanced
• The change will not encourage me to stay weekends but rather to drop a vacation day a year
• BLT owners were abused with the minimum point add-on being raised a week before these new charts were released. I suggested Disney allow a one time sub-100 point add-on purchase for all BLT buyers prior to Jan 15 to make up the difference in their contracts.

I'm not sure if upper management will listen or do anything about it. We also talked about unrelated things like the switch to RCI and the 7 day booking. And I made a request to have that RCI announcement on the phone shortened or bypassed. I'm so sick of having to sit through the same spiel again and again.

CM Joy had a good demeanor and tried to stress how much Disney valued its members, but I drove home the point that the latest actions did not give that appearance at all. Changing those weekly totals is probably the biggest no-no on average. She mentioned that the annual DVC Planners will be going out in the next couple weeks and expects a lot more feedback from members as they get the news of the changed charts. We speculated that many members do not know of the change yet and many will react negatively.

And I closed with the mentioned that because of these sudden changes, I'm stilling my tongue in encouraging new buyers. I made the comparison to my Marriott ownership and that it seemed the better program as of now.

In other words, don't call us, we'll call you. Exactly the same type of responses many people got when they complained about the 7 day reservation change.

 

[BroganMc]

In other words, don't call us, we'll call you. Exactly the same type of responses many people got when they complained about the 7 day reservation change.

That's a bit harsh. It's not like the CMs in Member Services have any decision-making ability. The best they can do is pass along comments and complaints to upper management. If the volume and verocity is sufficient then management may take it to heart.

From what I was told, they already had a lot of people calling to complain about not getting their II requests filled which led to the RCI change. But Joy did mention that they were just as booked on weekends as weekdays so she dismissed the idea that this point reallocation was done solely to encourage weekend stays.

When you think about it, it's counterproductive anyway. Weekend points are still higher and now that weekday points are higher too, members have less surplus to spend on the more expensive weekends.

That all just leads me to believe whatever the thinking employed to reallocate these charts was it did not really address the concerns we've long debated on this thread. It's as if someone looked at the high bookings and decided the points should be changed to match demand not balance demand throughout the schedule. That would explain why we see studios increasing so much in Choice season. It would also explain why someone would think it perfectly reasonable to increase the weekly requirements of a BWV 2bedroom in magic from the even 350 points to 352. No one bothered to consider members may have just purchased enough points to cover a week in their preferred season and found that suddenly taken away.

Like I told Joy, in all the times I've visited the Preview Center and sat in on a sales presentation I have NEVER heard the recommendation to add 20% to a buyer's point purchase for possible reallocation. The conversation has always been "When do you like to travel, what size room do you need, these are the charts to fill those needs". The caveat of rebalancing the charts always takes the form of "nightly totals may change" but with no emphasis that weekly totals are subject to change.

Give the DVC Planners a chance to hit people's mailboxes and then I predict a much larger hue and cry from general membership. We have yet to see the fall out from this change.

 

[toocherie]

Give the DVC Planners a chance to hit people's mailboxes and then I predict a much larger hue and cry from general membership. We have yet to see the fall out from this change.

But how do you get the genie back in the bottle? I suspect that there are many members who are happy with the change (some of them have posted on this thread) who would not be happy if the charts went back to what they were pre January 15. And if the original change was based on historical demand, I would think those members would have a much stronger case that something was amiss.

(However, I do agree with your suggestion that pre-BLT buyers be given the chance to purchase less than 100 points)

 

[BroganMc]

But how do you get the genie back in the bottle? I suspect that there are many members who are happy with the change (some of them have posted on this thread) who would not be happy if the charts went back to what they were pre January 15. And if the original change was based on historical demand, I would think those members would have a much stronger case that something was amiss.

(However, I do agree with your suggestion that pre-BLT buyers be given the chance to purchase less than 100 points)

Looking at the charts and possible configurations I'm just not seeing how the weekend warriors are benefitting enough to overwhelm those who are now short points. In most cases people saved a couple pooints but not enough to cover another day's stay. And in the scheme of things, it is those who are hurt by a change who squeak the loudest. So while some may see a few more points banked for the next year's use, I doubt Disney will hear from them. It's those who are short who will reach out and complain.

But having said that, I'm a realist. DVC has gone to too much trouble in putting together and releasing these charts. They've already started booking rooms under the new point chart. I have no illusions we'll see a pre-2010 chart reinstituted. What I'm hoping to see is more detailed explanation from DVC to clarify that the charts are indeed balanced (at least giving members a way of obtaining a resort breakdown of total point allotments and/or explanation of how rooms and points were calculated) and a temporary reprieve for BLT owners allowing them to make small add-ons.

And yes, if there's enough negative backlash I doubt we'll be seeing another point chart change for a long while. If they do issue another adjustment for 2011, I'd hope they'd go back and adjust those weekly totals for the sold out resorts to 2009 levels. It's incredibly bad form to have members who've owned for years suddenly be short points for a given week.

The ball is in their court. How they react to the feedback they get will be the telling factor of the company's character and how it thinks of members.

 

[Dean]

That's a bit harsh. It's not like the CMs in Member Services have any decision-making ability. The best they can do is pass along comments and complaints to upper management. If the volume and verocity is sufficient then management may take it to heart.

That's exactly the point. There was a larger cry from members on the reservations issues and we saw a number of points exactly like yours that I quoted. At this point it's about people skills from MS, not substance. Not intending to be harsh but they have NO authority to change this plus you, I and they know it will not change overall other than possibly another reallocation in a few years once his settles out.

Looking at the charts and possible configurations I'm just not seeing how the weekend warriors are benefitting enough to overwhelm those who are now short points. In most cases people saved a couple pooints but not enough to cover another day's stay. And in the scheme of things, it is those who are hurt by a change who squeak the loudest. So while some may see a few more points banked for the next year's use, I doubt Disney will hear from them. It's those who are short who will reach out and complain.

I don't think anyone believes this change will make people say they only want to go weekends because it's just as cheap, if everyone did so it'd screw up the system even more than it was before. What it will do is cause some to stay over a weekend that would not have otherwise and it will cause some to say over just a weekend that would not have done it otherwise. That added to the rooms freed up because S-F people are using up more of their points is all it really needs to do for the desired effect. A 3-4% shift across the board will likely be enough to produce the desired balance.

 

[CheapMom]

Ok, absolutely no offense ment, I think saratoga springs is absolutely gorgeous and I love the "feel" of the resort and the decor is bright, relaxing and very easy to live with, but... what is the purpose of making it the same point cost as the epcot resorts in Oct during food and wine?

no offense taken- and i am a ssr owner/lover/defender. You are so right. It does not make sense. I love SSR but it is hard to deny the fact that it is DVC's overflow property.

 

[drusba]

Looking at the charts and possible configurations I'm just not seeing how the weekend warriors are benefitting enough to overwhelm those who are now short points.

And yes, if there's enough negative backlash I doubt we'll be seeing another point chart change for a long while. If they do issue another adjustment for 2011, I'd hope they'd go back and adjust those weekly totals for the sold out resorts to 2009 levels. It's incredibly bad form to have members who've owned for years suddenly be short points for a given week.

The ball is in their court. How they react to the feedback they get will be the telling factor of the company's character and how it thinks of members.

Agree this won't really shift demand to the weekends. The more certain result is to lower overall demand for weekdays -- because of higher points there will be overall less demand.

And that raises an interesting question. They are limited to making no more than a 20% change per day (up or down) from the prior year. At HH and VB they essentially went to 20% and come close to it for some of the changes at the WDW resorts. Could this be simply the first step in an already planned further shift for 2011? One question i would like the powers to be to answer is whether there is plan to make another change or whether there has been any discussion about making another change in the next couple of years.