Disney to cancel FPs if room is cancelled

[hiroMYhero]

No, I don't think so. Let's say I am staying at Boardwalk for 3 nights, but I buy a 7 day ticket. I can book all 7 days when I'm 60 days from check in. All of those FastPasses are now linked to my Boardwalk stay. If I cancel Boardwalk, I lose them all.

So, in her scenario where she is staying at YC and then CBR, she would lose all her FastPasses if she cancelled YC. She'd have to rebook them at 60 days out from the CBR stay. If it's less than 60 days out, then she doesn't get her full 60 day perk.

When your 60-day window opened, it opened based on the reservations for Stay#1 and led into and opened for Stay#2.

On the FP threads, it historically has been easier to state the window opens for all days than to continually attempt to explain to people that the window opens for Stay#1 AND Stay#2.

Any onsite hotel reservation will hold the FPs. There are TAs posting in this thread regarding the 2-day grace period to rebook an onsite stay. If a person already has Stay#2 booked for those specific FP days, they won’t disappear.

 

[Runnsally]

No, I don't think so. Let's say I am staying at Boardwalk for 3 nights, but I buy a 7 day ticket. I can book all 7 days when I'm 60 days from check in. All of those FastPasses are now linked to my Boardwalk stay. If I cancel Boardwalk, I lose them all.

So, in her scenario where she is staying at YC and then CBR, she would lose all her FastPasses if she cancelled YC. She'd have to rebook them at 60 days out from the CBR stay. If it's less than 60 days out, then she doesn't get her full 60 day perk.

Becky - you’re most likely incorrect. Speculation so far is that the loophole will only be closed for folks staying offsite who use a cancelled resort reservation to open up their FP window at 60d.

 

[rlk]

After reading through this thread, I am concerned with my summer split stay. Right now, I have a two-night reservation at a value resort, followed by an 8 night DVC stay with 9-day park hopper tickets. I did the split because we don't have enough points for more nights and we are still not sure if my oldest will be available the first to nights. We will not find out about my son's schedule until late June. It would be great if I can cancel the first reservation without losing fast passes, but If not, I am willing to keep the reservation and pay in full.

 

[Becky Mouse]

Becky - you’re most likely incorrect. Speculation so far is that the loophole will only be closed for folks staying offsite who use a cancelled resort reservation to open up their FP window at 60d.

But let's say I'm planning on staying at Disney for 4 nights next year, 2020. Pretend it's April 1-5. Now let's say I really want Galaxy Edge FastPasses. I could easily try to book 6 nights at another resort from March 24-31. That would mean I could book my FastPasses on September 24 instead of waiting for October 1 to book. Then I could cancel the first reservation and keep them. That's one of the scams Disney is trying to end right now. It's people booking dummy reservations to get earlier FastPasses. I think guests are going to lose their FastPasses if they book with earlier dates and then cancel that reservation.

 

[Becky Mouse]

I very clearly said:



You're confusing things here. Will staying onsite increase your chances of getting the coveted FP? Yes. That's the case with every popular ride out there. Right after SWGE opens up it will be way different than a day to day operation.

There's a huge difference in saying "staying onsite increases your chances of getting a FP" and saying "Disney is making it so anyone who wants to ride Galaxy Edge is going to need to stay on Disney Property, and possibly for 10 nights to get the 60+10 window! The FastPasses will still be free, but it's about to become a necessity to stay on Disney property to ride Galaxy Edge."

You're making the case that a qualification for riding a ride is contingent on staying onsite. It's not. The rides aren't closed off to non-FP guests as in Disney designed them that way from the beginning. The land may experience closures with exceptions but that is not a new concept.

Pandora was the same way temporarily in that a line formed to enter the land with people unable to enter until enough people had left but those with FP bypassed the line. But guess what? Over at Universal it was the same with Harry Potter (I don't actually know if having an Express Pass though bypassed the line or not) in which people were waiting in line to get into the land or they were given a return ticket to come back to the land. But TSL, Pandora, and HP right at opening is not indicative of a day to day operation and none of those were designed where non-FP (or in the case of Universal EP) guests can't ride at all.

I hear what you're saying, and maybe I phrased it wrong. I jumped to my conclusion without really sharing the logic of my argument. So, here's how I see the situation:

1) Popular new lands (such as Toy Story and Avatar/Pandora) in Walt Disney World have gotten so crowded that they only allow people in who have FastPasses.

2) Galaxy Edge is going to be insanely popular--more popular than any other land that has opened before.

3) For the first few days, weeks, or months, you are probably going to need a FastPass just to get into the land because it will be super crowded.

So, that was my first conclusion. To know that you can get into Star Wars Galaxy Edge when it opens, you'll need to secure a FastPass. How can you secure it?

A) You can stay on Disney property for 10 nights to get the absolute maximum booking window of 60+10. Plan on going to Hollywood Studios your last day, and you can probably get a FastPass.

B) You can stay off property for 10 nights if this property is partners with WDW. It sounds like WDW is considering ending these partnerships. So starting next year, people who want the 70 day booking will need to stay on Disney property.

C) You can book a dummy reservation for 10 nights, get the FastPasses you want, and then cancel it later. Only... this loophole is ending. You can no longer do this.

D) ??? As far as I know, there is no option D.

So, if you want a chance at the Star Wars Galaxy Edge FastPass to get into Star Wars Galaxy Edge, you will no longer be able to do B, C, or D. Your only option will be A, to stay on Disney property for a long stay. That's why Disney is allegedly ending their FastPass offsite perks and closing this loophole. They are guaranteeing more people will stay at their properties and for long stays (10 nights). They are making sure they get those stays and that money and not off-site properties.

 

[billlaurie]

Let's hope they close this loophole too and fast because it probably will be practiced more with SWGE. Not only does it give people FP advantages that they don't deserve, it ties up resort rooms! If people have to start fresh with their FP booking when they cancel their leading reservation, they will stop this practice.

 

[rteetz]

Popular lands in Walt Disney World have gotten so crowded that they only allow people in who have FastPasses.

This only happens during the opening day or weekend. It never happens outside of that.

 

[Chuck S]

It's no skin off of Disney's back to have you pay for a reservation and not stay

Not really, when you look at the big picture with throw away rooms. Say your throw away room/campsite is during a peak travel period...and your extra reservation prevents another family from booking. Now, Disney would be out the admission tickets for the second family (which is no small amount) plus any food and souvenirs they would purchase.

 

[disneylova]

I think it might be the one that the tickets are linked to, if you buy a package. So, for example, we have 7 day tickets linked to our 2 night Ft Wilderness cabins stay, and then we're resort hopping to Swolphin. If we cancelled Swolphin, I think we'd still get to keep our FastPasses. If we cancelled Ft. Wilderness, I think we might lose the FastPasses.

What if it's not a package but a room only reservation?For all 3? We have Pop/Poly/Carribean beach. Booked poly 2nd bc will for sure be there for that but hoping we can go earlier to Pop!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So, if you want a chance at the Star Wars Galaxy Edge FastPass to get into Star Wars Galaxy Edge, you will no longer be able to do B, C, or D. Your only option will be A, to stay on Disney property for a long stay. That's why Disney is allegedly ending their FastPass offsite perks and closing this loophole. They are guaranteeing more people will stay at their properties and for long stays (10 nights). They are making sure they get those stays and that money and not off-site properties.

You did clarify what you meant so thank you for that.

Of course Disney wants people to pay for onsite stays. As for length of stay it's harder to really quantify that right now because we don't know quite yet how the FP distribution will be handled. For sure FOP seemed to be for a while at least 5 or more days helped people out as well as booking towards the end of your stay (which is a helpful advice for other popular rides) but I don't know that we can pinpoint how many days right now that is with SWGE.

From a guest standpoint you have to look at costs of things and number of rooms even available. I stayed a total of 10 days 9 nights in 2017 but at All-Star Sports with a discount. The total cost was $1,147.74 (the cost is higher now but just using it as an example). There are only so many Value rooms even available. Disney can easily make our total cost off someone staying a fraction of the days (some rooms only 1 or 2 nights would put you at that). We would not have stayed onsite for that long if the price was much higher. We only stayed onsite that long because it was cheaper to do that in comparison to splitting up WDW and Universal park days (and I liked the flexibility of being able to alternate which theme park company we were going to during our stay).

In that respect you have to look wider at things. You're not going to be able to guarantee people can afford to stay longer stays especially if discounts are mostly gone, gone or severely limited or much smaller than before. Really, at least right now, IMO Disney is just more concerned with losing out on any money because of the segment of people who book and then ultimately cancel completely. If they get more money out of people who have a shorter stay but at higher priced resorts I think that probably makes them even happier than the person who stays longer but at the lower priced resorts.

 

[Runnsally]

But let's say I'm planning on staying at Disney for 4 nights next year, 2020. Pretend it's April 1-5. Now let's say I really want Galaxy Edge FastPasses. I could easily try to book 6 nights at another resort from March 24-31. That would mean I could book my FastPasses on September 24 instead of waiting for October 1 to book. Then I could cancel the first reservation and keep them. That's one of the scams Disney is trying to end right now. It's people booking dummy reservations to get earlier FastPasses. I think guests are going to lose their FastPasses if they book with earlier dates and then cancel that reservation.

I understand the loophole you are describing, but the speculation is that this iteration of changes will not close it.

 

[crvetter]

People staying longer are not subsidizing magic bands for shorter stays. Disney's cost to produce magic bands is waaaaay less than $15.00 each, otherwise they would not offer up to 10 magic bands per $60 campsite. The magic bands are an incentive to get you to use the parks more often and spend more money while you are there - especially if you connect your credit card to them.

The cost of the bands don’t matter; it’s the profit to an extent. So Disney is loosing out on profit, which they fully intend on collecting. If Disney only wanted to get the cost of the Magic Bands recovered they would sell them at cost at the park. Also someone who is booking a throwaway room isn’t charging to the magic band at all would be my guess, and if they were charging it’s only for a day, which is very minimal. It is still gaming the system to get a monetary advantage that otherwise wouldn’t have been available to you. Also Disney is offering them to all rooms so it is an average cost to be considered on their end, which is why I said other guests are subsidizing the cost.

Also, you only get free parking for the days you have a reservation, so I don't understand how longer stays are subsidizing the parking of shorter stays?? Someone who rents a campsite for one night still just gets free parking for the days flanking that reservation. They pay the exact same same cost per day for 'free' parking as someone with a longer stay.

I would agree at Fort Wilderness if the person with a throwaway room had only 1 car at Disney World then there is no subsidizing of cost since they provide one space there free. However, if they have more than 1 car they are skating by not paying the extra car parking fee (doubt they are asking Disney to charge it to their 1 night since they don’t plan on staying there anyways) or if they are booking at a resort there is a fee for every car. Thus saving money again that is a profit center for Disney World, which will cause them to raise prices on average to make up for the loss.

While I believe throwaway rooms are allowed because of a loophole (which by definition is a finding an inadequacy in a rule to get an advantage). In my opinion it is exactly this, because I really don’t think Disney’s intention was to allow people to book $60 rooms to get magicbands for up to 10, skirt around paying for theme park parking for 2 days.

 

[JenniferYoung44]

No, I don't think so. Let's say I am staying at Boardwalk for 3 nights, but I buy a 7 day ticket. I can book all 7 days when I'm 60 days from check in. All of those FastPasses are now linked to my Boardwalk stay. If I cancel Boardwalk, I lose them all.

So, in her scenario where she is staying at YC and then CBR, she would lose all her FastPasses if she cancelled YC. She'd have to rebook them at 60 days out from the CBR stay. If it's less than 60 days out, then she doesn't get her full 60 day perk.

To clarify I am an AP holder so my ticket entitlement is not technically linked to either reservation

 

[Lesley Wake]

I’m honestly shaking my head at everyone celebrating this change. Do you not understand a big issue: this is Disney IT we are talking about! Everytime they try and make a change it messes up the whole system! I don’t know how they are going to keep this organized and can foresee MANY MANY issues! People who cancel and rebook within this grace period who still lose their FPs. People with split stays who are screwed over. Just in general breaking the system and causing MDE to glitch up for weeks! Last time they tried to get everything set up for the dated tickets, the whole thing went down for days!

I am heading to WDW on TUESDAY, so am more than a little worried about what is going to be messed up during my trip!

 

[HopperFan]

Does have something to do with SWGE prep. Hate to say it, but I also think it may have something to do with eventually paying for fast passes too. Just gonna wait and see what happens.

Disney seems to pride itself that FastPasses are complimentary and anyone who purchases a ticket has the ability to book them for free. It sets them apart from Universal. I was there last week and heard it said over and over to folks who didn't have FastPass and thought they had to buy them.

But in Disney fashion ............ they already offer them for purchase, they just do it creatively. The obvious is the ones that are purchased at the higher level deluxe resorts but there are plenty others that the FP is bundled and cost hidden.

When you do any of these things you are in essence purchasing FP+ to an attraction, entertainment or characters ...
- All character meals
- All dessert parties
- All meals that include seating to nighttime shows or parades
- All Early Morning Magics
- All Disney After Hours
- All specialty things like the Ice Cream on Riverboat with Tiana

I don't think we'll ever see the Universal route or the carnival ticket route to get extra FP+ but I do think we'll see the upcharge events that include FP values to grow and continue.

 

[mckennarose]

Not really, when you look at the big picture with throw away rooms. Say your throw away room/campsite is during a peak travel period...and your extra reservation prevents another family from booking. Now, Disney would be out the admission tickets for the second family (which is no small amount) plus any food and souvenirs they would purchase.

The difference is that when someone books a throwaway room or campsite it is for one night, its not taking up an entire week. There can still be availability for 6 days in that week even if a throwaway uses one night.

It is not uncommon for a resort guest to NOT get their first choice for a week, a start day or specific room or resort. When we stay with our DVC family we don't always get our first choice of check in day, resort or specific unit so we adjust our plans based on what is available. This is also why people do split stays. People generally aren't thinking "I only have one specific check in day, one specific resort, one specific type of room and if all those don't come together, I won't go to Disney this year". I say this because we almost never get exactly what we want or we have to make adjustments with dates, etc. I guess what I'm saying is that it won't necessarily prevent another family from booking; they will just adjust their reservation like we all have to do at times. So Disney will not be out money in the long run. And if that family cancels their trip, someone else will gladly step in and take whatever days they can. Disney is never empty.

 

[hiroMYhero]

A) You can stay on Disney property for 10 nights to get the absolute maximum booking window of 60+10. Plan on going to Hollywood Studios your last day, and you can probably get a FastPass.

There is not a 10-day absolute FP booking window for guests with APs and long stays.

The initial FP window for a stay of 14 days or longer opens for the first 14 days then rolls immediately.

See the FP FAQ ADDENDUM Sticky on the TPAS board where confirmed and correct info can be found.

 

[Jrb1979]

I’m honestly shaking my head at everyone celebrating this change. Do you not understand a big issue: this is Disney IT we are talking about! Everytime they try and make a change it messes up the whole system! I don’t know how they are going to keep this organized and can foresee MANY MANY issues! People who cancel and rebook within this grace period who still lose their FPs. People with split stays who are screwed over. Just in general breaking the system and causing MDE to glitch up for weeks! Last time they tried to get everything set up for the dated tickets, the whole thing went down for days!

I am heading to WDW on TUESDAY, so am more than a little worried about what is going to be messed up during my trip!

While it may mess up the people who cancel and rebook or the ones with split stays, I think its a great idea. From this thread I gather lots of people were abusing it.

I never understood the purpose of canceling and rebooking a room. When ever I book a trip I don't keep checking for better deals once I have booked something. I look for the best deal at the time and take it. I don't so the point in going through the hassle in canceling a room then rebooking something else.

 

[Capang]

I’m honestly shaking my head at everyone celebrating this change. Do you not understand a big issue: this is Disney IT we are talking about! Everytime they try and make a change it messes up the whole system! I don’t know how they are going to keep this organized and can foresee MANY MANY issues! People who cancel and rebook within this grace period who still lose their FPs. People with split stays who are screwed over. Just in general breaking the system and causing MDE to glitch up for weeks! Last time they tried to get everything set up for the dated tickets, the whole thing went down for days!

I am heading to WDW on TUESDAY, so am more than a little worried about what is going to be messed up during my trip!

I may be in possession of the most jacked up MDE account ever. I will save you the long, long history of why I believe this. But I will say this. Guest services and IT are always able to "fix" whatever is jacked (granted, I may be proved wrong when trying to register for MM here in a couple weeks). Worst case scenario, you notify guest services and the restore your FP or give the anytime FP. We have been given specific FP for FoP, 7dmt, PP when we already had them and the system/my account glitched and took them away.
I do see small glimpses of hope that the system is getting better.

 

[Capang]

While it may mess up the people who cancel and rebook or the ones with split stays, I think its a great idea. From this thread I gather lots of people were abusing it.

I never understood the purpose of canceling and rebooking a room. When ever I book a trip I don't keep checking for better deals once I have booked something. I look for the best deal at the time and take it. I don't so the point in going through the hassle in canceling a room then rebooking something else.

Cancelling and rebooking is pretty common for several reasons.
1. A way better deal pops up, maybe you get that deluxe for close to what you were paying for a moderate.
2. Finances change and that value is a way better deal.
3. Military room rates become available.
4. About a million other reasons.

I have no idea how many people were abusing this practice, but many, many people cancel and rebook for completely legitimate reasons.