Disney reads DISboards - Fact!

[pilferk]

I agree. However...
TWDC is simply NOT producing the same quality "products" that they used to.
While it may make them short-term profits, what they are putting out in the marketplace (cheaply made, low-quality merchandise and entertainment at exorbitant prices) is NOT what will keep consumers coming back for more.
Why do you think people are looking for cheaper park tickets? They want to be paying admission that is equivalent to what they are actually receiving.
If I overpay you once, shame on you. If i overpay you twice for the same "crap" offerings, shame on me.

In your opinion...

And if enough people share that opinion, Disney will be forced to take action or eventually cease to exist.

Given their occupancy rates (highest since before Sept 11th) and their theme park attendance rates (the highest in the industry), they're obviously not at that point yet. Consumers, by and large, are not seeing a decline in value for them.

YOU might be...that's something only you can decide. But Disney is not going to hold itself to your personal bechmark...they're going to hold themselves to their fiscal ones.

 

[spiceycat]

Well, I hope hope they know they've got a lot of unhappy DVC members that have been waiting for over 2 months now for those DCL point charts. Feelin' like 2nd class citizens 'cuz they didn't release the point charts at the same time they released the cruises for booking. What kind of way is that to treat guests who've actually made a financial commitment by buying your timeshare?

DVC doesn't do the point charts - they have to negotiate with the cruise. the cruise sets the price. DVC doesn't. there is no guaranteed that DVC members will even get DCL point charts. Nothing is guaranteed - except your home resort.

and yes it is definitely a better deal to rent your points and pay cash for the cruise. You got a chance at the discount that way.

 

[rantnnravin]

In your opinion...

And if enough people share that opinion, Disney will be forced to take action or eventually cease to exist.

Given their occupancy rates (highest since before Sept 11th) and their theme park attendance rates (the highest in the industry), they're obviously not at that point yet. Consumers, by and large, are not seeing a decline in value for them.

YOU might be...that's something only you can decide. But Disney is not going to hold itself to your personal bechmark...they're going to hold themselves to their fiscal ones.

of course it's my opinion, but it's based on empirical evidence.
For example-- disney catalog/disneyshopping/disney store/disney parks merchandise USED TO hold to a certain level of quality standard
Now, because of cost-cutting/high profit margin/short-term thinking management, the merchandise is sub-standard
June 05- bought a princess pool for DD, wouldn't blow up all the way because it was low quality - called Disney - "we'll send you a new one" guess what I got? another pool that wouldn't blow up! didn't bother to call them back, but also haven't bothered to buy anything like that from them since.
shirts that shrink/fade in the wash - never used to happen with disney merch.
bought DD a pkg of princess undies at the parks, first time they were washed, the trim unraveled and had to throw them out. Will they be replaced? NO.
their low-standards are costing them repeat business.
My own humble opinion, sure. But i doubt i'm the only one who feels this way.

my own personal benchmark was the one that was set by Disney a long, long time ago, it's what many of us had come to expect from the company.
As for the parks, it may be a difficult concept for many of us here on the boards, but many people view Disney as a Once-in a lifetime destination.
Why do we go back - for me, it's the memories that were made when Disney held itself to a higher standard.
What Disney needs to focus on is getting those OIAL people to feel the same way we/I do.
If attendance has risen since post-9/11 levels, how many of these customers (guests is debatable) will they be able to retain with the high-priced mediocre quality they are offering ? If i can pay less and get the same quality at USO, SW, BG, Sesame Place, Cedar Point, Six Flags, why bother with Disney?

 

[pilferk]

of course it's my opinion, but it's based on empirical evidence.
For example-- disney catalog/disneyshopping/disney store/disney parks merchandise USED TO hold to a certain level of quality standard
Now, because of cost-cutting/high profit margin/short-term thinking management, the merchandise is sub-standard
June 05- bought a princess pool for DD, wouldn't blow up all the way because it was low quality - called Disney - "we'll send you a new one" guess what I got? another pool that wouldn't blow up! didn't bother to call them back, but also haven't bothered to buy anything like that from them since.
shirts that shrink/fade in the wash - never used to happen with disney merch.
bought DD a pkg of princess undies at the parks, first time they were washed, the trim unraveled and had to throw them out. Will they be replaced? NO.
they low-standards are costing them repeat business.
My own humble opinion, sure. But i doubt i'm the only one who feels this way.

To be clear, that's not empirical evidence, it's anecdotal evidence.

And I'm sure you're NOT the only one that feels that way. But again, until there are enough people that feel that way, and/or demonstrate a willingness to pay more for higher quality (since it COSTS more), Disney is not going to make a change. They have no reason to until it starts having an effect, somehow, on their bottom line.

Personally, I've had the opposite experience with recent Disney store, and Disney parks, merchandise. We've had a great string of luck with their products for the kids...and our kids are pretty tough on toys and clothes..especially my son. But, again, that's anecdotal evidence and not likely to be taken much into account by Disney when looking at their end of quarter/year fiscal numbers.

Listen, I have no problem with people taking Disney to task when they think quality is slipping. Have at it. I'm a huge fan of what Al Lutz did for DL, etc. But don't expect Disney to listen until you can convince a LOT more people to start voting with their wallet....because that's the language they understand best. That's pretty much what Al did. Disney management need to satisfy vocal and demanding shareholders. If you want something done, you have to do something that will effect those shareholders (in a negative or positive way) so that management will realize they either address the issue or have to answer to the investors.

 

[rantnnravin]

"em·pir·i·cal –adjective
2.depending upon experience or observation alone, without using scientific method or theory, esp. as in medicine.
—Related forms em·pir·i·cal·ly, adverb
em·pir·i·cal·ness, noun

—Synonyms 1, 2. practical, firsthand,



anyhow, i think we both agree

 

[nbodyhome]

Exactly. And "free dining" at the resorts isn't "free", exactly (as you point out). To get it, you have to pay rack rates for your room, and buy a package including a ticket. So you forgo any room discount for that "free" dining.....which, in the end, probably is a good deal for you...but it's also a good deal for Disney, I'd bet.

Honestly, I'm not sure how Disney makes money on some of the packages. 2 adults, 2 juniors in a Pop Century room paying $82.00 per night plus the free dining. Yes, they do buy tickets. On that trip, Disney doesn't make so much. BUT, the next time, the guests often will pay for dining - so in the end, it's a win for Disney too.

 

[pilferk]

Honestly, I'm not sure how Disney makes money on some of the packages. 2 adults, 2 juniors in a Pop Century room paying $82.00 per night plus the free dining. Yes, they do buy tickets. On that trip, Disney doesn't make so much. BUT, the next time, the guests often will pay for dining - so in the end, it's a win for Disney too.

I would guess it's because they're filling otherwise empty rooms, and putting more people in the parks to buy admission, souvenirs, etc. In addition, I think we can assume that the "cost" of what Disney is offering with free dining must, by the bean counters figuring, be less than the profit margin on the room at rack rate + admission + "discretionary spending $$".

They're likely slimming down their profit margin on those guests simply to make something rather than nothing.

 

[crisi]

I would guess it's because they're filling otherwise empty rooms, and putting more people in the parks to buy admission, souvenirs, etc. In addition, I think we can assume that the "cost" of what Disney is offering with free dining must, by the bean counters figuring, be less than the profit margin on the room at rack rate + admission + "discretionary spending $$".

They're likely slimming down their profit margin on those guests simply to make something rather than nothing.

My guess is that they are justifying it in creating "loyalty" - get people down once on a discount - and they'll come back without it. However, if that is their justification, the DISBoards is an argument against using the free dining package to create loyalty - its indicitive that there are a lot of people who would go anyway (or who would go for a smaller discount) who are taking advantage of discounts. Frankly, anyone who is a regular here who is saying that if free dining isn't offered, they won't go is really saying "if free dining isn't offered, we won't go this September." We are addicts - they'll just start planning a March trip - maybe counter service with one character meal and skip the dining plan, with a AAA discount and a few pop tart breakfasts in the room.

The 5 for 3 deal they had a few years ago is a better deal for Disney from a marginal cost standpoint - i.e. filling empty rooms at very little additional cost to Disney. Free dining has a pretty high cost associated with it to Disney.

 

[disneynutz]

Honestly, I'm not sure how Disney makes money on some of the packages. 2 adults, 2 juniors in a Pop Century room paying $82.00 per night plus the free dining. Yes, they do buy tickets. On that trip, Disney doesn't make so much. BUT, the next time, the guests often will pay for dining - so in the end, it's a win for Disney too.

Remember that the free dining (which isn't really free) has caused Disney to change the menus at most DDP restaurants. Less selections and lower cost food.

 

[psu4glory]

Listen, I have no problem with people taking Disney to task when they think quality is slipping. Have at it. I'm a huge fan of what Al Lutz did for DL, etc. But don't expect Disney to listen until you can convince a LOT more people to start voting with their wallet....because that's the language they understand best. That's pretty much what Al did. Disney management need to satisfy vocal and demanding shareholders. If you want something done, you have to do something that will effect those shareholders (in a negative or positive way) so that management will realize they either address the issue or have to answer to the investors.

right on...it's simply the way capitalism works. the market dictates demand, prices, and quality. if the masses are buying it, why change it?

i just read that, earlier this week, Magic Kingdom had close it's gates in the middle of the day due to over-capacity crowds. sounds to me like "empirical" evidence that not enough people are upset w/the quality of disney's product yet to force them to change anything...

 

[jarestel]

Spring break and Easter have always been very popular times at WDW so the fact that they are crowded now isn't necessarily indicative of anything. And let's not forget that Disney is offering free or reduced rate food and free rides to/from the airport. All attractive incentives for a budget minded consumer. When the freebies are gone, that will be a more realistic indicator of how much loyalty actually exists within the general public.

I realize that most of us on these boards are hard-core Disney freaks and will in all likelihood plan and make trips to WDW on a regular basis. But the "real" world is not like us. There has to be more of a reason for them to spend beaucoup bucks at Mickey's place than just liking WDW. Financial incentives certainly don't hurt when they are deciding where to spend their vacation dollars.

 

[Budshark]

Since I get entertainment/theme park news at my job (nothing insider, just summarized public releases) I can assure you Disney is NOT hurting from brand loyalty the least.

In fact, they are healthier than they have been since 9/11 and suffered minimum impact even then. Disney is seriously trying to ramp up expansion plans because their bottom line is favorable and they had backed off items due to expected decreases in attendance/licensed purchasing/movie proceeds which never materialized.

I have seen 'quality' issues with Disney products (souvenirs, etc) - but I also can say I've seen it across the board with other non-Disney products. This country has accepted lesser quality for more availability and lower costs. That ship has sailed.

Disney is still considered by and large to be the standard by which to measure brand loyalty, cross-promotion, and overall theme park value. Their costs have gone up, but not outside of the brand premium they have built.

Chris

 

[nbodyhome]

The 5 for 3 deal they had a few years ago is a better deal for Disney from a marginal cost standpoint - i.e. filling empty rooms at very little additional cost to Disney. Free dining has a pretty high cost associated with it to Disney.

The best discounts for Disney (IMHO) are the ones they've done during the last couple of springs - adding a park hopper and water park option for free with base tickets. It's giving something that isn't really tangible - it's not food, it's just allowing them to go to more than one park per day.

The menus have changed some - but I've not noticed a huge difference in the restaurants I have frequented.

 

[jarestel]

Whenever any business offers "free" stuff, they are trying to draw customers, not be swell guys. Loyalty for the majority of the consuming public is measured in dollars, not in brands. Hence the popularity of WalMart and McDonalds.

We may prefer Disney but if we can find a better "deal" elsewhere, loyalty to Disney doesn't amount to much.

 

[nbodyhome]

Disney is filling rooms - not only at Easter, but each time period this year so far seems busier than last year (which was a GREAT year for Disney). Discounts or no discounts, people are coming to Disney in a very big way.

 

[OneMoreTry]

I don't.

What made Disney the place that we love was Walt. If Walt had made his decisions based upon financial outcomes there probably wouldn't be a Disney today. Walt was a dreamer and a, make it happen kind of guy who was not the best money manager. He left the finances up to his brother Roy. They new that if they did it right a reasonable profit would come some day in the future. They were in it for the long hall.

..... Even if it cost a little more. He knew that he could expect and receive the Disney level of quality from his own people.

What makes Disney special is somewhat intangible. Things like vision and talent. Nurturing these may not look good on an annual spreadsheet, but it has paid and will pay in the long run.

Ignoring these will cause the well to dry up and that would be a horrible legacy for those currently at the helm.

 

[jarestel]

Exactly. Disney is filling rooms, but my point is we should wait until the discounts go away before we read too much into the current occupancy rates.

 

[fishermouse]

I agree. However...
TWDC is simply NOT producing the same quality "products" that they used to.
While it may make them short-term profits, what they are putting out in the marketplace (cheaply made, low-quality merchandise and entertainment at exorbitant prices) is NOT what will keep consumers coming back for more.
Why do you think people are looking for cheaper park tickets? They want to be paying admission that is equivalent to what they are actually receiving.
If I overpay you once, shame on you. If i overpay you twice for the same "crap" offerings, shame on me.

Guess it's all opinion because I'm very happy with my Disney experiences. As far as park prices up here in the N.E. we pay as much or close to it for the local parks. ie; six flags, great park but not WDW, even smaller parks like Hershey or Dorney Park are over $40. a day. Sure prices are higher but we're not making $2.50 an hour any more. No reason for DVC to give discounts on daily admissions. the parks are full.

 

[crisi]

The best discounts for Disney (IMHO) are the ones they've done during the last couple of springs - adding a park hopper and water park option for free with base tickets. It's giving something that isn't really tangible - it's not food, it's just allowing them to go to more than one park per day.

The menus have changed some - but I've not noticed a huge difference in the restaurants I have frequented.

Those are great for Disney - no marginal cost on adding a hopper option or a free waterpark visit - just the lost revenue from people who would have added it anyway. Free dining has got to have huge marginal costs - all that food - even if they changed the menus - its a huge cost - plus the opportunity cost when the restaurant fill with guests getting their food for "free" rather than those paying menu prices.

 

[DVC Dude]

A few more things the CM told me:

Disney really listens to the market (us) and will change a boat midstream if something is not working.

DCL is NOT offering discounts as they all sell out. They are building 2 new ships that will be MUCH larger in terms of lenght and width, but will look the same (classic lines).

If Disney can't make money off something, they will drop it. He cracked up when I told him my Ped Peeve was the $10 refillable soda mugs...I personally think it is a rip off.

He said, when you see Disney advertise, they are hurting and when they don't advertise, they are doing well.

I also told him I want a DVC special cruise in DCL during the SUMMER as that is when kids are off school. He said Disney reservs special cruises for when the bookings are slower and harder to sell out. School vacations and summer does not need any promotions.