Disney pricing the middle class out

[Castle2Castle]

I read this article, and IMO, and I stress, this just my opinion, the writer is sharing his opinion from a anti-business attitude.

With a demonstrably poor understanding of business and economics to boot. As others have pointed out, you can't really look at the theme park prices and inflation like a gallon of milk. Ignoring supply and demand differences, a gallon of milk in 1971 and in 2015 remains one gallon of milk. Walt Disney World in 1971 was one park, but today it's four parks with an entirely different class of attractions. Bringing demand back into the picture, Orlando wasn't nearly the city then it is today, and all the theme parks there enjoy a larger, better transportation network bringing more guests from around the country and the world. Whatever the opinion of development under Iger, the changes since 1971 are pretty darn hard to miss.

Setting 1971 comparisons aside, his middle class narrative wants to have its cake and eat it too. The middle class is shrinking and ticket prices are increasing. He reasons from this that the middle class is being priced out, in which case we should expect attendance to be going...up? Maybe because as much as he wants to only focus on and cite the highest possible prices for tickets and experiences, many (probably most) people aren't paying those rates; they're leveraging room and ticket discounts -- from Disney, AAA, other third party sources. VBOs today also provide a new alternative for families looking to reduce lodging expenses.

And to suggest other parks simply raise their prices so they don't look too cheap by comparison? You don't even need to understand much about business to grasp the dynamics of competitor pricing, businesses provide free lessons everyday in their advertisements. I've yet to see Southwest brag about offering the same price or higher than their competitors...

 

[Planogirl]

A lot of this is subjective. I think that WDW has gotten worse over the years. Bigger does not always mean better. Others think that it's better and they're not wrong.

I also keep in mind that the themeparks are a luxury and not a necessity. I don't believe that the same rules apply to an unneeded luxury at least not in my world. Of course some people feel like visits to WDW are needed but that's a whole other topic.

The parks are worse and expensive. The food is worse and expensive. The resorts are overpriced. We all have to make our own value judgments when it comes to how we spend our vacation dollars. Disney still lures me in with the Haunted Mansion and Boma and a few other things. As a middle class consumer I just choose to go less. Will other middle class consumers do the same? Only time will tell. They can't afford to just continue to pay more and more though. I speak from personal experience.

 

[maxiesmom]

Funny, I don't feel spineless. I just understand that as a consumer I have the right to chose to buy a product or not. If a lot of people feel any item is overpriced, then the price will be cut. That is how a free market works. So far I still feel as if a trip to WDW is a good value.

Heck, I'm spending around $600 for a week of camping in July in Michigan's UP. I'm also looking at buying Tigers tickets and those will be $50 for something that lasts what, 4 hours? And doesn't include gas to get there or food or parking. I'd like to know where people are finding dirt cheap vacations that compare to WDW for a lot less. Cause I'm not seeing them.

 

[Dean Marino]

Funny, I don't feel spineless. I just understand that as a consumer I have the right to chose to buy a product or not. If a lot of people feel any item is overpriced, then the price will be cut. That is how a free market works. So far I still feel as if a trip to WDW is a good value.

Heck, I'm spending around $600 for a week of camping in July in Michigan's UP. I'm also looking at buying Tigers tickets and those will be $50 for something that lasts what, 4 hours? And doesn't include gas to get there or food or parking. I'd like to know where people are finding dirt cheap vacations that compare to WDW for a lot less. Cause I'm not seeing them.

Grin - ALSO live in MI (Midland). We're with you - we're going to WDW . And if the park gate price doubles? We're going . Just hoping the park crowds go down....

Oh - side note: Next time you go, visit Spaceship Earth. Now, look closely at the very END of the ride, at the "billboard" showing the distribution of WHERE the park visitors are from (at that ride) TODAY....

You'll notice that the vast majority of visitors are from the East Coast, and Florida. VERY few from MI.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The theme parks left the middle class behind-because of the middle class demands IMO.

Even right now on this thread folks are almost demanding more more more expansion and rides.

Yet there are also constant complaints of year around crowding there.

Yes prices have increased with limited (lately anyway) expansion-but does anybody think prices would have stayed the same (or gone down) with massive continued constant expansion?

What did/does everyone think that would/will lead to?

I can clear this up...

The people complaining about crowd levels are wrong...

The people complaining about lack of new rides are
Right.

It's a mixture of things...notably the concept of park stagnation, the rising prices for less things, and Disney's own operational history of reinvestment...which they continually pump to sell rooms and tickets but don't follow...making liars out of themselves.

They have sat on their hands largely in Florida except for vacation club...

That's not what put them on top and could definitely lead to them sliding backwards to a category closer to universal or the AB parks...

You can't expect an 85 year old mouse to carry you on his back forever...

Why the crowd complaints? The FP+ system has highlighted the problem...

You're paying 100 for EPCOT and can only reserve your spot on 1 of about 3 things worth it each day...

The whole day

The system...which is a success...has a Mr Hyde side to it that has exposed the underbelly...
And that wasnt so much the case in 1999...at a lower price.

You can't add 10,000,000 new visitors to a finite space with less for them to do... And that is what CEO bob has done in 11+ years...

He'll retire a very rich man though.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Funny, I don't feel spineless. I just understand that as a consumer I have the right to chose to buy a product or not. If a lot of people feel any item is overpriced, then the price will be cut. That is how a free market works. So far I still feel as if a trip to WDW is a good value.

Heck, I'm spending around $600 for a week of camping in July in Michigan's UP. I'm also looking at buying Tigers tickets and those will be $50 for something that lasts what, 4 hours? And doesn't include gas to get there or food or parking. I'd like to know where people are finding dirt cheap vacations that compare to WDW for a lot less. Cause I'm not seeing them.

You feel that paying more continually for a high disposable, non necessity year after year when they are actually actively taking away what you have been getting is a good consumer policy?

We'll disagree...

This isn't milk, bread, or gas...

The fundamental truth to the travel industry is that they have to work tirelessly to convince you to come back...and that never ends until the door closes...

We have been working...myself Included...the opposite and accepting whatever they feel like doing in Orlando...

Shut half of mgm in January...raise prices in February...and let everyone hang for 1-xx years?

Sure...why not?
Why don't you also start charging me 15% more on weekends or 25% more when the kids aren't in school?

Yeah...what the heck?

 

[Planogirl]

Funny, I don't feel spineless. I just understand that as a consumer I have the right to chose to buy a product or not. If a lot of people feel any item is overpriced, then the price will be cut. That is how a free market works. So far I still feel as if a trip to WDW is a good value.

Heck, I'm spending around $600 for a week of camping in July in Michigan's UP. I'm also looking at buying Tigers tickets and those will be $50 for something that lasts what, 4 hours? And doesn't include gas to get there or food or parking. I'd like to know where people are finding dirt cheap vacations that compare to WDW for a lot less. Cause I'm not seeing them.

Did someone call you spineless? That's not right. Of course you have the right to choose what to buy or not buy.

As for less costly vacations, we go to San Antonio and our hangouts in Arkansas for way less. We spent quite a bit less when we traveled to Philly and DC. We like to travel to the mountains and that can be done on a shoestring or not. The cost to get to some of these places can be prohibitive.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I used the term to describe the consumers collectively...Including myself.

Did I mean individuals? Not at all... Everybody's a little different.

Collectively? Yeah... Gonna have to call the bet here

 

[jerry557]

That's going to be one of the more long-term problems with WDW that they seem to be lacking new offerings. Their competitors are building new attractions all the time. Meanwhile Disney seems stuck in a cycle of never-ending refurbishment. Hollywood Studios is a problem and Star Wars will only be a temporarily solution. Animal Kingdom has needed a new headliner BAD for years. EPCOT has an entire pavilion next to Mission Space that's not even used for anything. The new Fantasyland expansion in MK has really been the only exception. And you would think the popularity of that would motivate Disney to start doing new things in the other parks.

When you keep increasing prices and not offering anything new or different, the repeaters will eventually start looking at competition.

 

[manning]

The price hikes won’t slow until the park sees a dip in demand, experts say. If anything, Disney is experimenting with how to persuade parkgoers to pay even more. Disney surveys sent last month to guests suggested the giant was considering a tiered pricing structure that would clock peak-time “Gold” tickets, during summer and winter holidays, at $125. “Bronze”-level $105 tickets would allow entrance during less busy times, such as weekdays.

There's only one way to stop it and that is to quit going.

Before Disney land it is amazing how we survived. We entertained ourselves and enjoyed it.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/pers...e-middle-class-behind/ar-BBl3Gn4?ocid=U150DHP

 

[Bolt4Life17]

Right now me and my fiance are DINKs. Duel income no kids. So WDW is doable but still very pricey compared to other vacations within the country. Not to mention we only go when we can snag free dining.

I couldn't imagine trying to take your whole family to WDW.

Although I will say, when we go just us two it's about $4000 total. When we go with my parents, it is still $4000ish but split between two parties. Somehow the math comes out that way.

 

[Hokie2000]

There price increases are well above standard inflation...it's straight profiteering and there is no argument...

But lets hear it...

Well, actually there is an argument. How can selling a non-essential product with numerous competitors in close proximity for a price that is readily accepted by consumers be considered profiteering?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Well, actually there is an argument. How can selling a non-essential product with numerous competitors in close proximity for a price that is readily accepted by consumers be considered profiteering?

I could see the argument from a purely economic standpoint...until I walk into MGM with its closures and the closed/decayed pavilions in EPCOT while they talk about assigning a different "metal" price to which day I'm there...then it seems like exploitation.

I guess to each their own...

 

[Hokie2000]

I could see the argument from a purely economic standpoint...until I walk into MGM with its closures and the closed/decayed pavilions in EPCOT while they talk about assigning a different "metal" price to which day I'm there...then it seems like exploitation.

I guess to each their own...

I can understand the feeling that customers are getting less for more at WDW these days, but I don't think it can be characterized as profiteering. For one thing - the product is completely optional - we're not talking about hiking up the price of lumber after a hurricane. For another, there is ample competition - WDW is not the only option of an optional product.

 

[popy]

When Disney gets done pricing the middle class out, then when will they price the next class out ?
Then ask your self, when will that next class include me ? Not a good thought is it.
If it works do you think they will stop just because you are a fan, Sold to the highest bidder.

 

[mort1331]

I have read this whole thread and I still don't understand why everyone thinks the pricing is out of wack. I look at a theme park near us and it is $50+ per person per day, plus the parking and food and if you want a FP its close to $60 on top of admission. This and the waits are crazy, boring and all outdoors. Another comparison is like Detroit the Leafs here to take a family of 4 to a game is well over $500 just for admission, add everything else on top and that's if you can get a ticket. The games are always sold out and they put premiums on top if big draw teams are coming in. And this team hasn't won anything in 40+years.
Disney gets me to spend my money and puts a smile on my face and the face of my family. My DW is hooked because of the great CM we have met and how they make it special for us each time. You can not put a value on that.
For our vacations it is still great value and I would say our family is lower middleclass. But very Happy.

 

[rteetz]

I have read this whole thread and I still don't understand why everyone thinks the pricing is out of wack. I look at a theme park near us and it is $50+ per person per day, plus the parking and food and if you want a FP its close to $60 on top of admission. This and the waits are crazy, boring and all outdoors. Another comparison is like Detroit the Leafs here to take a family of 4 to a game is well over $500 just for admission, add everything else on top and that's if you can get a ticket. The games are always sold out and they put premiums on top if big draw teams are coming in. And this team hasn't won anything in 40+years.
Disney gets me to spend my money and puts a smile on my face and the face of my family. My DW is hooked because of the great CM we have met and how they make it special for us each time. You can not put a value on that.
For our vacations it is still great value and I would say our family is lower middleclass. But very Happy.

I think a lot of people think the pricing is out of whack because they increase it all the time but don't change anything in the parks or in DHS's case take things away without adding anything.

 

[mort1331]

I think a lot of people think the pricing is out of whack because they increase it all the time but don't change anything in the parks or in DHS's case take things away without adding anything.

LOL this is like the MapleLeafs, they should be out of the NHL, but still have the highest prices of any Hockey because people keep coming.
The same is true for Disney.
I believe there is a very skewed curve of Disney people on this board. And skewed in the sense of knowledge. Because of this they cant believe the Millions of others that are not on here still pay these ever increasing prices for diminishing returns. The same can be said for a lot of day to day things. Do you think my mother would have bought prepackaged koolaid or ritz crackers with cheese in them, presliced and packaged apples or grapes. " I can make the same thing for a tenth of the price"
Convenience comes at a huge price but hoards still do it.
Families that come once or twice in their life may not even know about what they are/were missing. I never got on Malstrom Ever, and now I never will.
So families that have never done backlot tour are the same. These same families can make DHS a full day because they are not "experts" like most on these boards. Try and remember the first time you went, we were all sheep at one point. Without the paying sheep( and I was and am one) the Experts wouldnt be able to have there hidden little gems.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Really? Have you not heard of a little ride called Toy Story Mania? Have you not been on the new Star Tours? Or heard about the plans for a whole Star Wars themed area?

You're going to whip out toy story as something they've done recently?

It was the hot new ride when my wife and I went on our honeymoon. 2 kids and 7 years later, I wouldn't call it new!

 

[maxiesmom]

You're going to whip out toy story as something they've done recently?

It was the hot new ride when my wife and I went on our honeymoon. 2 kids and 7 years later, I wouldn't call it new!

The post I originally quoted talked about new rides in the last 10 years. So that fit in that time frame.