Disney Genie+ and ILL$ Details & FAQ - Launches 10/19 at WDW, Paid "FastPass" at WDW and Disneyland (date TBD)

[Aluminum Falcon]

See the thing is, I was already paying for those perks. None of those things were free to begin with, just included in what I was already paying.

And that’s where we disagree, Disney included those for “free” as a perk, clearly defined. The fact that you included them in your cost is purely arbitrary, you defined the perks as part of your admission,

This ultimately gets me to what I was trying to drive at. Disney can give, but under no circumstances can they take away, or change. That to me is where the big problem lies

 

[ChipnDale79]

And that’s where we disagree, Disney included those for “free” as a perk, clearly defined. The fact that you included them in your cost is purely arbitrary, you defined the perks as part of your admission,

This ultimately gets me to what I was trying to drive at. Disney can give, but under no circumstances can they take away, or change. That to me is where the big problem lies

It’s ok to disagree, I’m just not going to give them the money I used to. It just doesn’t sit right with me.

 

[Illinois76]

every single disney group...official or unofficial that i follow on social media, the backlash has been severe.

THIS is the core issue.

Disney fans are the only ones in the world with this level of emotional attachment to the product.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

THIS is the core issue.

Disney fans are the only ones in the world with this level of emotional attachment to the product.

I agree, and I think that’s why people feel so strongly about changes, it’s almost like Disney is monetizing their emotions, and future memories, and they find that insulting

 

[ChipnDale79]

THIS is the core issue.

Disney fans are the only ones in the world with this level of emotional attachment to the product.

See I don’t think that’s it. I think people have an emotional attachment to their money, and you feel nickle and dimmed to death. Disney isn’t cheap

 

[dclpluto]

I was at Hollywood studios today. Heard two cast members talking about genie training. One has it on Thursday and the other one has it on Friday.

 

[Liquidice]

I agree that there really isn't a way for anyone to check on them (baring an investigation), all I'm saying is that no business puts plan/ policy in place knowing that the goal is to deceive their consumers.

There are plenty of examples of companies that have plans to purposefully deceive their customers...

Examples:

Cigarette companies for years advertised with knowledge that their products were dangerous to consumers.

Reddit created fake accounts and filled the site with their own content to shape how Reddit would evolve. They deceived their consumers into thinking the content was created by real people - but it was fake.

Dating site Tinder created fake accounts to increase user demand and increase the total number of accounts they had. Some of these fake accounts even responded to members who thought they were talking to real people.

Glide, spammed their users' contacts in their address books with text messages without telling them to trick your friends into downloading their app.

LinkedIn tricks you into importing and inviting contacts to join their platform.

Oracle renamed their first software release "Version 2" because customers were more likely to buy a "polished" product.

The Path app texts your whole address book at 6am without your permission.

So - could Disney have a plan in place to drive up revenue on Genie+ by making the standby lines longer? I somehow doubt that they really thought it through that much. But I could certainly see them using Genie+ to help maintain a certain level of standby wait time to make the park appear busier than it really is. They used to do that with Fastpass+ so they definitely can and probably will do it with Genie+. There are also rumblings of them doing this with Park Pass to artificially control which types of guests get into the park - so on busier days, Ticket holders and resort guests may get more park passes while APs get less, and on less busy days, APs will get more. We've seen evidence of this where Park Pass availability for APs suddenly increases a week or two out.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

There are plenty of examples of companies that have plans to purposefully deceive their customers...

Examples:

Cigarette companies for years advertised with knowledge that their products were dangerous to consumers.

Reddit created fake accounts and filled the site with their own content to shape how Reddit would evolve. They deceived their consumers into thinking the content was created by real people - but it was fake.

Dating site Tinder created fake accounts to increase user demand and increase the total number of accounts they had. Some of these fake accounts even responded to members who thought they were talking to real people.

Glide, spammed their users' contacts in their address books with text messages without telling them to trick your friends into downloading their app.

LinkedIn tricks you into importing and inviting contacts to join their platform.

Oracle renamed their first software release "Version 2" because customers were more likely to buy a "polished" product.

The Path app texts your whole address book at 6am without your permission.

So - could Disney have a plan in place to drive up revenue on Genie+ by making the standby lines longer? I somehow doubt that they really thought it through that much. But I could certainly see them using Genie+ to help maintain a certain level of standby wait time to make the park appear busier than it really is. They used to do that with Fastpass+ so they definitely can and probably will do it with Genie+. There are also rumblings of them doing this with Park Pass to artificially control which types of guests get into the park - so on busier days, Ticket holders and resort guests may get more park passes while APs get less, and on less busy days, APs will get more. We've seen evidence of this where Park Pass availability for APs suddenly increases a week or two out.

I see your point and I would say with cigarettes being the outlier, because let’s face it, big tobacco is pure evil (not really exaggerating haha), your examples don’t involve money, primarily it’s all about advertising to drive up business, but not charging anyone through their tactics. I think that when a company is charging you for something, and they claim one thing, but are behind the curtain pulling different strings to make it do something entirely to the contrary of what they are selling (selling being the key word) is where they can get themselves in some serious trouble. It’s one thing to manipulate people through questionable marketing practices, it’s another to take their money and blatantly lie about what is being provided.

 

[BrianL]

I see your point and I would say with cigarettes being the outlier, because let’s face it, big tobacco is pure evil (not really exaggerating haha), your examples don’t involve money, primarily it’s all about advertising to drive up business, but not charging anyone through their tactics. I think that when a company is charging you for something, and they claim one thing, but are behind the curtain pulling different strings to make it do something entirely to the contrary of what they are selling (selling being the key word) is where they can get themselves in some serious trouble. It’s one thing to manipulate people through questionable marketing practices, it’s another to take their money and blatantly lie about what is being provided.

Also, those companies got in a bit of hot water over those practices. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't think Disney would risk the bad press.

 

[New Mouse]

It’s ok to disagree, I’m just not going to give them the money I used to. It just doesn’t sit right with me.

@aluminumfalcon Disney was actually quite clear that perks like magical express, fastpass and extra magic hours were why the costs were so high. Did they say guests were paying X for them? No, but it was clear the answer was not $0.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

@aluminumfalcon Disney was actually quite clear that perks like magical express, fastpass and extra magic hours were why the costs were so high. Did they say guests were paying X for them? No, but it was clear the answer was not $0.

Where did they say this? I think it was more a case of people looking at hotel prices and saying “wow that’s a high price, but look at all the perks”, rather than Disney saying “we are charging so much because of the perks”. They have clearly looked into whether or not they still need to offer these perks and don’t think they need them. I do agree their hotel costs are out of bounds, but I also believe that Disney has a captive audience to pay those high prices, otherwise they wouldn’t strip the perks/ retool them.

 

[shawthorne44]

I think it was more a case of people looking at hotel prices and saying “wow that’s a high price, but look at all the perks”

That is true. That is the primary point of any discussion about on-site or off-site.

I can totally see a lot more people staying off-site until they change things. The only non-deluxe on-site perk is early entry. It is easy to put a price on that since you can figure one and only one IA$$$ ride in standby. So, on HS day it would be $24*number of people. On MK day, maybe $10*number of people.

 

[Marionnette]

That is true. That is the primary point of any discussion about on-site or off-site.

I can totally see a lot more people staying off-site until they change things. The only non-deluxe on-site perk is early entry. It is easy to put a price on that since you can figure one and only one IA$$$ ride in standby. So, on HS day it would be $24*number of people. On MK day, maybe $10*number of people.

The early entry isn't limited to Disney-owned hotels. The following hotels are also included, which means those 30-minutes will be more crowded than some have predicted and being onsite is a lesser benefit than advertised.

• Walt Disney World Dolphin Hotel
• Walt Disney World Swan Hotel
• Walt Disney World Swan Reserve
• Shades of Green® on Walt Disney World® Resort
• Signia by Hilton Orlando Bonnet Creek
• Waldorf Astoria Orlando
• B Resort & Spa Lake Buena Vista
• DoubleTree Suites by Hilton Orlando
• Hilton Orlando Buena Vista Palace
• Hilton Orlando Lake Buena Vista
• Holiday Inn Orlando
• Wyndham Garden Lake Buena Vista
• Wyndham Lake Buena Vista
• Four Seasons Resort Orlando

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/en_CA/guest-services/early-entry/

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

By all indications, stacking is not going to be possible with Genie+. You will be offered "next available" time slots, not any slot you wish to choose. Remove that stacking ability and eliminate free FP and I don't think you're selling the same product.

I don’t think this is true at all. What indications? If they don’t allow stacking then the on-site benefit really is worthless.

 

[Marionnette]

I don’t think this is true at all. What indications? If they don’t allow stacking then the on-site benefit really is worthless.

Why would stacking have anything to do with being onsite vs offsite?

 

[ChipnDale79]

Where did they say this? I think it was more a case of people looking at hotel prices and saying “wow that’s a high price, but look at all the perks”, rather than Disney saying “we are charging so much because of the perks”. They have clearly looked into whether or not they still need to offer these perks and don’t think they need them. I do agree their hotel costs are out of bounds, but I also believe that Disney has a captive audience to pay those high prices, otherwise they wouldn’t strip the perks/ retool them.

I'm only me, but you can count me as a part of the "captive audience", or at least you could. I knew what i was paying for, but was stupid enough to not really break everything down.

My wife mentioned to me on our last trip how much we were paying for our hotel room per night, i stopped in my tracks and said.."wait what, thats how much the room is per night?" To be honest, i had an idea, but when i got there and how things were it clicked. We've stayed onsite for almost 15 years, and the price at Pop was far higher than it had ever been before and the lack of "perks", that was it. It kind of shook me to not be so "captive" if that makes sense.

Don't get me wrong, i kind of knew the cost of the room but didnt really care because i knew how much the total package was.

Because of that, we decided against going back next year, and when we go back in 2023, unless things change, we wont be staying onsite. It doesnt make sense to now.

 

[shawthorne44]

The early entry isn't limited to Disney-owned hotels. The following hotels are also included, which means those 30-minutes will be more crowded than some have predicted and being onsite is a lesser benefit than advertised.

Isn't that basically the same list as pre-lockdown? Then you have that crowds are divided among all the parks. But then you add in that it is only a half-hour. So, one very popular ride during early entry seems like the best estimate. What might change things is if a lot of on-site people who didn't take advantage of the early entry, do now. Maybe they'd been interested before, but the higher crowds throughout the day at that park dissuaded them.

What would be bad is if they have ROTR and FOP closed during early entry.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Why would stacking have anything to do with being onsite vs offsite?

Because if you can stack, and you’re at an onsite hotel, that means starting at 7 am you can start stacking fastpasses for later in the morning or day, whereas if you are offsite you can’t do that and have to be in the parks. The ability to make 1 advance lightning lane reservation at 7 am onsite is nearly worthless versus staying off site. The ability to make several might be worth something.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Because if you can stack, and you’re at an onsite hotel, that means starting at 7 am you can start stacking fastpasses for later in the morning or day, whereas if you are offsite you can’t do that and have to be in the parks. The ability to make 1 advance lightning lane reservation at 7 am onsite is nearly worthless versus staying off site. The ability to make several might be worth something.

I’ve heard “stacking” may be a thing, but it will only open up 2 hours after you make your first reservation, and you have to have a reservation not being used within those 2 hours. I did hear that a little while back so that may be incorrect

 

[shawthorne44]

People are guessing based on the way MaxPass worked.