Disney Genie+ and ILL$ Details & FAQ - Launches 10/19 at WDW, Paid "FastPass" at WDW and Disneyland (date TBD)

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I didn’t see it in MDE yesterday but did this a.m. I’m just wondering if IT is having hiccups with the launch of Genie because I would have thought it would be live now that it’s autumn & Oct. 1 is around the corner. LOL, but I’m just one of these people who like to play with apps to familiarize myself with it before I have to actually use it.

I mean, it's got to be a scientific certainty that IT is having hiccups with the launch fo Genie.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I hesitate to post this, but i just found this quote from Chapek, and i think it speaks to how Genie is meant to be constantly reacting to whatever is happening at the park, it seems to have a pretty robust logic built into it, i really hope IT has tested the crap out of it before launch

Things like Genie, either the free part of Genie, the complimentary, if you will, part of Genie that’s going to improve everyone’s visit to our parks and ensure that they minimize wait times and maximize the fun.

Genie is what Genie is when we launch it. But it will continue to become even more and more robust over time…Every day is going to be a different situation and Genie is very responsive to that. And I think that we’ll continue to add utilities over time as we continue to learn about how to use this new utility.

 

[Q-man]

Doing a little research and noticed some trends.

In 2011, Disney ran at 81% hotel occupancy and their stock was devalued based on the reports. Hotels were not booking in the Moderate and Deluxe categories, so cost per room was having to raise in the Value category, in order for them to operate at a profit and Art of Animation was opening soon, to add even more value rooms. So, Disney developed FP+ the next 2 years and when it went into effect, hotel guests received the benefit of pre-booking and hotel occupancy started going up. By 2015, this was at 89% and Disney stated that was almost too much and any further increase would require expansion, so Disney doubled down on DVC resorts and tried to add rooms to existing resorts, but tap into a fan base that wanted to own. This eased the pressure for a little while, but then by 2018, the occupancy was right back up there. At that time, Disney started allowing good neighbor resorts to use EMH and book FP+ at 60 days in 2019. They also announced the building of Reflections and Star Wars resorts to add more rooms to their inventory.

Now, at every step in this process, as Disney occupancy went through the roof, Disney tried to develop technology and or inventory that would help stay ahead. When occupancy took too big of a hit, they added technology to entice people to stay on-site. When that was maxed out, they tried to add inventory where they could or hurt their own occupancy in the case of giving the same benefits to good neighbor resorts.

When the pandemic hit, Reflections was abandoned, so there was no new inventory coming. They had already maxed out DVC space and brought on the good neighbor hotels. So, what is the next thing they could do to stop capacity from going up again? I think by removing some perks of staying on-site and introducing Genie+, they are going to get people that see that staying off-site might make more sense and will begin doing that. That will be good for Disney for a short while. Then, when everything in the resort opens to max capacity again, they will see occupancy rates going back down and bring back some incentives to stay on-site again. Once those work and capacity goes back up to the limit, then you bring back Reflections or fins some way to encourage off-site again. The wheel just keeps going around and around.

One last thing that interested me was the good neighbor hotel incentives and FP+. I would imagine Disney had to enter into a contract with them, for some amount of time, that would give the same FP+ availability to those hotels as on-site guests. Otherwise, Disney could have offered 60 days to them and then turned around and changed to 90 days for on-site guests and nothing would have changed. I almost wonder if Disney has to wait until next year or the year after before they can offer Genie+ benefits to on-site guests, in order to fulfill those contracts?

I differ in opinion on this. I think converting existing rooms to DVC rooms, in addition to raising capital and locking fans into every other year trips, was about reducing on property rooms available to drive rack rates up(making DVC look better) and not need 'free dining' to fill up property rooms.

 

[Shelly F - Ohio]

So is the individual LL is that priced per person per day just like Genie+?

 

[closetmickey]

MaxPass was well-received because you could pull paper FastPasses (for free) as well. You could thereby double-dip.

Once you purchased max pass, your ticket was not able to pull the paper fast passes…at least mine wasn’t.

 

[Turksmom]

So is the individual LL is that priced per person per day just like Genie+?

Per person, per ride (not day, with a maximum of 2 pp/per day allowed).

 

[ZeeWP]

I think this discussion, like many others, is bringing about extremes. I don't think the effect will be extreme. I think considering the number of people that Disney brings in, it won't be big, maybe even not noticeable to the average eye, dent to the companies profits.

I do think the profits the changes it self will bring in will be smaller than expected, and the leadership will see that. More broadly--I think the PR backlash is problematic from a visual standpoint, but I don't think Chapek and the current leadership cares as long as the money comes in. Yes, Disney regulars are the most upset by it. But it was enough of an uproar on Twitter and Youtube that the major news channels covered it (At least CNN and the AP did from what I saw). But I don't think they care about the uproar as long as the money comes in.

I think eventually we'll see deals and discounts coming out like the DDP did, book during the slow time and get Genie+ for free. etc.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I think this discussion, like many others, is bringing about extremes. I don't think the effect will be extreme. I think considering the number of people that Disney brings in, it won't be big, maybe even not noticeable to the average eye, dent to the companies profits.

I do think the profits the changes it self will bring in will be smaller than expected, and the leadership will see that. More broadly--I think the PR backlash is problematic from a visual standpoint, but I don't think Chapek and the current leadership cares as long as the money comes in. Yes, Disney regulars are the most upset by it. But it was enough of an uproar on Twitter and Youtube that the major news channels covered it (At least CNN and the AP did from what I saw). But I don't think they care about the uproar as long as the money comes in.

I think eventually we'll see deals and discounts coming out like the DDP did, book during the slow time and get Genie+ for free. etc.

whenever a company charges more for anything there is always an uproar (i don't think anyone has ever cheered on price increases, unless your a homeowner looking to sell haha), and the news media only covers uproars, drama= mouseclicks/ views, people liking something doesn't sell, so no surprise about that. The AP is usually pretty neutral, so i'm curious if they just did a story laying out what was happening with Genie, or if they were commenting on guests perception of it (which would be out of the norm for them)

 

[Liquidice]

I hesitate to post this, but i just found this quote from Chapek, and i think it speaks to how Genie is meant to be constantly reacting to whatever is happening at the park, it seems to have a pretty robust logic built into it, i really hope IT has tested the crap out of it before launch

Things like Genie, either the free part of Genie, the complimentary, if you will, part of Genie that’s going to improve everyone’s visit to our parks and ensure that they minimize wait times and maximize the fun.

Genie is what Genie is when we launch it. But it will continue to become even more and more robust over time…Every day is going to be a different situation and Genie is very responsive to that. And I think that we’ll continue to add utilities over time as we continue to learn about how to use this new utility.

I suspect what he's trying to say here is that Genie will be improved and get better over time, which is a hallmark of Machine Learning. Just like an Amazon Echo device that can get better at natural language processing over time, theoretically Genie could get smarter at predicting wait times and make better recommendations over time. Assuming it works correctly

 

[ZeeWP]

whenever a company charges more for anything there is always an uproar (i don't think anyone has ever cheered on price increases, unless your a homeowner looking to sell haha), and the news media only covers uproars, drama= mouseclicks/ views, people liking something doesn't sell, so no surprise about that. The AP is usually pretty neutral, so i'm curious if they just did a story laying out what was happening with Genie, or if they were commenting on guests perception of it (which would be out of the norm for them)

True there are always upset people, but it's rarely at this level. Ticket Price increases, grumble grumble. There were people upset about DME and Parking at the resort hotels, but it wasn't to this level. So I do think it's a bigger deal. Enough to hurt Disney? Nah. But enough for people to take notice, yup.

And of course, the Media is gonna cover uproars, it's the matter of choosing which headlines to put on their pages. Which uproar matters most that day. I don't remember seeing on CNN's front page about DME going away, but I do remember seeing this.

I don't remember all the contents of the report from AP, but I bet you are right. they were probably just laying it out. I think the news articles I was reading were about the youtube votes but I don't know who posted what and where.

 

[Jrb1979]

I think this discussion, like many others, is bringing about extremes. I don't think the effect will be extreme. I think considering the number of people that Disney brings in, it won't be big, maybe even not noticeable to the average eye, dent to the companies profits.

I do think the profits the changes it self will bring in will be smaller than expected, and the leadership will see that. More broadly--I think the PR backlash is problematic from a visual standpoint, but I don't think Chapek and the current leadership cares as long as the money comes in. Yes, Disney regulars are the most upset by it. But it was enough of an uproar on Twitter and Youtube that the major news channels covered it (At least CNN and the AP did from what I saw). But I don't think they care about the uproar as long as the money comes in.

I think eventually we'll see deals and discounts coming out like the DDP did, book during the slow time and get Genie+ for free. etc.

I disagree. I doubt they will ever give Genie+ away for free. They will other discounts to get people to stay on site. There is no going back to free FP.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

True there are always upset people, but it's rarely at this level. Ticket Price increases, grumble grumble. There were people upset about DME and Parking at the resort hotels, but it wasn't to this level. So I do think it's a bigger deal. Enough to hurt Disney? Nah. But enough for people to take notice, yup.

And of course, the Media is gonna cover uproars, it's the matter of choosing which headlines to put on their pages. Which uproar matters most that day. I don't remember seeing on CNN's front page about DME going away, but I do remember seeing this.

I don't remember all the contents of the report from AP, but I bet you are right. they were probably just laying it out. I think the news articles I was reading were about the youtube votes but I don't know who posted what and where.

so to me, the other reason you are seeing media coverage would be that Disney is fundamentally changing the way their parks operate, (at least the way they have pitched it) and when a company the size of Disney changes something that major it draws attention, couple that with unhappy fans, and you’ve got yourself a story. DME wasn’t enough red meat for anyone outside of local media, and fans to take note of, and ticket prices go up almost every year. Disney talking about how they are revolutionizing how their parks work… now that’s a story

 

[Jrb1979]

so to me, the other reason you are seeing media coverage would be that Disney is fundamentally changing the way their parks operate, (at least the way they have pitched it) and when a company the size of Disney changes something that major it draws attention, couple that with unhappy fans, and you’ve got yourself a story. DME wasn’t enough red meat for anyone outside of local media, and fans to take note of, and ticket prices go up almost every year. Disney talking about how they are revolutionizing how their parks work… now that’s a story

IMO it's not that revolutionary. Almost every other park has a paid skip the line system. They are just late to the game. I think the biggest reason for the uproar is more that advanced booking is gone. Disney trained everyone to plan out their vacation down to the minute, and now have changed that.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

IMO it's not that revolutionary. Almost every other park has a paid skip the line system. They are just late to the game. I think the biggest reason for the uproar is more that advanced booking is gone. Disney trained everyone to plan out their vacation down to the minute, and now have changed that.

I’m not saying it will be all that revolutionary, (I think it will definitely help though) I’m saying that’s how Disney is pitching it. I don’t think the news has anything to really report if there is an uproar from guests that they can’t book FP 60 days out. Now if guests are in uproar bc the park has “fundamentally” changed the way it operates, then they have a story

 

[buzlite]

As a bleeding heart liberal I'm surprised to see so many Disney socialists on here. Im also surprised by the number of people fighting this on moral grounds. In reality if Disney decreased the price of tickets to $50 dollars a person and allowed 2 hour plus waits on every ride, people would be very upset. The problem as shared before is that Disney has too many damn guests. In this system most high income people would not go because they would have better options. Disney would make less money and the product would be worse. On the other hand Disney could increase ticket prices to $500 dollars a day and create an ultra luxury park. Unfortunately this would alienate a lot of people and reduce that chances of getting kids when they are young to be life long spenders. Plus rich people like showing off infront of regular people. So they need to create a product that is possible but a reach for most middle American families but allow wealthier Americans to have an upgraded experience. The wealthy will subsidize the attractions while taking up less line real estate while allowing regular people to still access the same product. It's the fine art of creating a high quality experiance that is accessible (although barely) to Joe and Jill from Ohio with there 3 kids but also appeals to Jerry and Margaret from Manhattan.
If you take away paid upgrades from the parks you will eventually lose things like high end dining and fancy resorts.
If Disney wants to give back they should create scholorship funds for their employees or develop programs for impoverished youth to visit.
People need to stop complaining about " before I was willing to pay enough for all the benefits but now there will be people infront of me even though I was in front of people before and didn't bat an eye".
Disney world doesn't owe you anything. They are a capitalist company in a capitalist country. If they want to give back they should support the poor not appease privileged visitors. If enough people don't pay because it was too much then Disney will lower the prices and cut costs. If they do then they will continue and will have been right in their planning.
As someone who was over joyed to spend 1 day at Disneyland as a child while sleeping in the car at a rest stop their and back I can tell you that Disney has always given people paying extra, more benefits than others. Get used to not being the Belle of the ball.

 

[Roxas_XIII]

Disney world doesn't owe you anything. They are a capitalist company in a capitalist country.

Very well put. I've been really turned off by the Dis Unplugged lately due to the heavy negativity on this (and other things). I think what did me in was Deni (though I think she's great) recently saying something along the lines of "Families have been through so much this last year, and now Disney is charging them so much more and they're getting less." Like... is the implication that Disney is obligated to keep prices low because many families had a bad year?

I'm also a dedicated Disney parks fan who took exactly ONE trip to WDW with my parents as a child (drove 14 hours each way), and had the absolute greatest time ever. It was a cherished memory and fueled a lifelong love. Going every year is not an American family right.

 

[Liquidice]

I don't think anyone is arguing for the prices to remain low. At least I'm certainly not. It isn't just about the Genie+ either, it is everything combined that Disney has done in the last year.

Also when you look at other companies who were impacted by the pandemic - they are trying to be more consumer friendly. Look at the airlines as an example - United started the trend with getting rid of change fees on tickets. Prices have gone up everywhere, that isn't the point - but a lot of companies are increasing perks to help soften the blow of the increased prices. Disney is raising prices and eliminating perks.

I just think like Deni said - paying more and getting less is not what I as a consumer want. I don't think most people would be happy with paying more to get less. There is a travel bubble right now, but long term, things aren't in a state where imho it is sustainable. Sure Disney can take advantage for the next year or so while demand is high due to the 50th and the bubble is there - and maybe that will work to their advantage. I'm still unsure if what little they've done for the 50th is enough.

Personally, I appreciate the Dis's honesty and willingness to express negative opinions - despite it not necessarily being in their business's best interest. If you're not happy with people expressing their honest opinions - perhaps you should go watch a influencer who never says anything bad about Disney so they can get free stuff from Disney?

I just think the combination of both raising prices and cutting perks is not good for long term business. It also certainly isn't good for the consumer. I'm sure if demand isn't there, Disney can easily reinstate things though. I don't think Disney will go out of business because of this - but I do hope the up-charges are a failure and Disney has to go back and re-think their strategy. Do I realistically think Genie+ will fail? Probably not because there are too many people who will just spend money on it. IA$ - possibly? Other upcharges and changes - I think have a greater chance of having issues, like most of the lost on-site perks may drive people away from staying on-site.

As far as there being too many guests - what about lower demand times like September? If I went in September every year and the parks were mostly empty - I still have to pay for Genie+ and IA$ now. Where as before I could use FP+. Raising prices for tickets where demand is high makes sense to me, creating up-charges doesn't - its the same thing as others have stated that we hate about video games that do micro-transactions.

I also worry if this is successful and up-charges are the new standard, what will they up-charge for next?

There was an article on the Dis about how FP+ was a better system since everyone got the chance to utilize it while Genie+ and IA$ is making someone in the Lightning Lane's wait shorter at the expense of the people in the standby queue.

Is that socialism? I don't necessarily think so since everyone still paid to get into the park. I'm not suggesting Disney give away tickets for free to everyone.

I don't think Disney owes me anything - but similarly, I don't owe Disney anything. In a Capitalist society - you vote with your wallet - a lot of us who are unhappy will either not be going, not going as often or perhaps changing their spending habits at Disney.

As far as the posts - just expressing my opinion, the same way you are

 

[5DisneyNuts]

I agree. While the posts laying out the more sophisticated reasons are very interesting, I think the perceived hypocrisy by TWDC is what is causing the widespread backlash.

WDW has never been an experience that compared itself to what other parks are doing. The message from TWDC and many super fan cheerleaders is that these changes WILL make everyone's experience better. That just isn't the case for me. It MIGHT, but we just don't know. My experiences have been pretty good to date which is why I have visited dozens of times over many, many years. I KNOW that for the exact same experience I had in March of 2020 I WILL be paying hundreds/thousand more than I did then.

I get why AP/FL residents were disappointed with the choice of FP+ at 30 days. WDW could have addressed that by offering a selection of headliners to that audience at 30 days. For those that say G+ WILL make for a more spontaneous trip, I'm not sure. Park reservations and dining are still a big factor. What I am afraid of is having a park reservation for DHS, buying G+ at an additional $75 for the day, getting online at 7am and not being able to get what I want. Now I have to change my reservation and try again in MK. I preferred planning in advance to avoid vacation stress.

I am from NY. I can't say to my kids, hey let's go see Hamilton today. I didn't plan in advance so I'm off to the TKTS booth to see what's available. The same could be said for many places all over the world. WDW is not Six Flags and requires some level of planning IMO. I can't tell you how many times I've seen parents turned away from BoG or Chef Mickey's with their children in tears. That is still going to happen because those parents didn't get up at 6am (545am) at 60 + 10 days in advance. Because it is not in WDW's best interest to change this ($$+), it will probably not change.

As far as the "wealthy", "1%", or whatever you want to call what appears to be the target audience, WDW is not a super high end experience that group is used to (I've worked with a fair number of very wealthy families and their expectations). Think Dad going to the concierge of the GF saying I want to dine at 830pm at V&A tonight and being told, I'm sorry sir, that isn't available, but Olivia's at Old Key West is ( no offense, just an example).


I HOPE G+ becomes a great tool that makes the WDW experience better. I don't want to be told it WILL because none of us know until we see it and right now I'm skeptical.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I don't think anyone is arguing for the prices to remain low. At least I'm certainly not. It isn't just about the Genie+ either, it is everything combined that Disney has done in the last year.

Also when you look at other companies who were impacted by the pandemic - they are trying to be more consumer friendly. Look at the airlines as an example - United started the trend with getting rid of change fees on tickets. Prices have gone up everywhere, that isn't the point - but a lot of companies are increasing perks to help soften the blow of the increased prices. Disney is raising prices and eliminating perks.

I just think like Deni said - paying more and getting less is not what I as a consumer want. I don't think most people would be happy with paying more to get less. There is a travel bubble right now, but long term, things aren't in a state where imho it is sustainable. Sure Disney can take advantage for the next year or so while demand is high due to the 50th and the bubble is there - and maybe that will work to their advantage. I'm still unsure if what little they've done for the 50th is enough.

Personally, I appreciate the Dis's honesty and willingness to express negative opinions - despite it not necessarily being in their business's best interest. If you're not happy with people expressing their honest opinions - perhaps you should go watch a influencer who never says anything bad about Disney so they can get free stuff from Disney?

I just think the combination of both raising prices and cutting perks is not good for long term business. It also certainly isn't good for the consumer. I'm sure if demand isn't there, Disney can easily reinstate things though. I don't think Disney will go out of business because of this - but I do hope the up-charges are a failure and Disney has to go back and re-think their strategy. Do I realistically think Genie+ will fail? Probably not because there are too many people who will just spend money on it. IA$ - possibly? Other upcharges and changes - I think have a greater chance of having issues, like most of the lost on-site perks may drive people away from staying on-site.

As far as there being too many guests - what about lower demand times like September? If I went in September every year and the parks were mostly empty - I still have to pay for Genie+ and IA$ now. Where as before I could use FP+. Raising prices for tickets where demand is high makes sense to me, creating up-charges doesn't - its the same thing as others have stated that we hate about video games that do micro-transactions.

I also worry if this is successful and up-charges are the new standard, what will they up-charge for next?

There was an article on the Dis about how FP+ was a better system since everyone got the chance to utilize it while Genie+ and IA$ is making someone in the Lightning Lane's wait shorter at the expense of the people in the standby queue.

Is that socialism? I don't necessarily think so since everyone still paid to get into the park. I'm not suggesting Disney give away tickets for free to everyone.

I don't think Disney owes me anything - but similarly, I don't owe Disney anything. In a Capitalist society - you vote with your wallet - a lot of us who are unhappy will either not be going, not going as often or perhaps changing their spending habits at Disney.

As far as the posts - just expressing my opinion, the same way you are

I think airlines had to offer perks because people were still uneasy with flying, and they were enticing people to come back, Disney is multifaceted, and managed its way through the pandemic pretty easily, (primarily because of Disney+), therefore they did not have to entice their customers to a level airlines have had to.

I just think that Disney is in a non win situation when it comes to perks, they raise prices, people are upset that perks are being removed, but perks are typically a temporary adder to entice guests, Disney clearly feels like these are no longer needed to entice guests, but people feel robbed because of the less for more money situation you have stated above. They only option that makes people happy is to leave perks the way they are, or to add to them. even if Disney decreased room rates for the loss of perks i still believe everyone would be up in arms, because it wouldn't have been enough, the perk was worth more then any assigned dollar amount type of thing.

Negative opinions are perfectly acceptable when reporting, what i don't find ok is when reporters let their emotions dictate their opinions, i think you have to separate the two otherwise bias can cloud your reporting.

What you're saying about charging less for Genie+ during less peak times doesn't make sense to me, think about how FP+ was free, and how you would get more out of it if the park was slow, but less out of it if the park was crowded. i would be more in line of charging less for Genie+ during peak periods, but that wouldn't make a lot of sense to a business

Up charges are the way of the future, and in reality, the recent past. Consumer businesses are all capitalizing on micro transactions, do not do so would be a misstep by management, they are implemented because they work, plain and simple haha

How can the DIS come out and pit Genie, and FP+ against each other when Genie hasn't even been implemented, and a lot is still primarily speculation, that is biased reporting. Damning something that hasn't even had a chance to run is dishonest reporting.

I agree that you vote with your wallet, the question becomes, if you remove your wallet, do two more take your place, and we won't know that for quite sometime

 

[Shelly F - Ohio]

Per person, per ride (not day, with a maximum of 2 pp/per day allowed).

Thanks for clarifying that I knew it was capped at 2 per day. Saw a bunch of people commenting on FB that are under the impression that the LL was going to be that you would pay one price and you could take a group of people onto the ride.. So I thought I had missed something and wanted to make sure it was priced per person not for a group of people.