Disney Being Sued by Visually Impaired Guests

[lauralarissa]

The one about the characters is ridiculous

Pluto sitting with a seeing eye dog and his little owner.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46522870@N03/4471840272/

That is so adorable!!!

 

[jsilvers]

But it's all a moot point because WDW and DLR are private institutions and they should be able to do what they want in terms of accessibility.

You may think that, but fortunately it's not the law.

The plaintiffs in this case may not be right on either the facts or the law, but it should be emphasized that the purpose of the ADA is to make clear that private entities can't simply decide that it's too much effort to do business with an individual with a disability, and must take reasonable steps to accommodate him/her (just like the Civil Rights Act of 1964 made clear that private entities can't decide not to do business with someone based on their race or gender).

 

[raidermatt]

Three, actually. Cari Shields, Amber Boggs, and Teresa Stockton. See, for example, the court order posted at http://www.forizs-dogali.com/pdf/Disney%20Certification%20Order.pdf.



It wouldn't be odd that a lawsuit was filed by many fewer people then the number of people who complained (according to the court order, Disney received 58 complaints about similar issues in 2005-10).

And it wouldn't be odd for many people not to complain in the first place (as the court said, "Certainly not every deterred potential patron or aggrieved guest—sighted or otherwise—will lodge a complaint. It is likely that only a very small percentage of such guests actually take the time to do so").

58 complaints in 6 years? Less than 10 complaints a YEAR? Two resorts, 6 theme parks, 2 water parks, 10's of thousands of hotel rooms, and we are talking about less than one single complaint per month?

Sorry, but that is not a significant number no matter how one tries to slice it.

 

[chartle]

They don't offer companion discount? That's kind of weird to me, because I used to work in a park in Norway that offered that. Obviously you would need proof that you need a companion, as in that you need assistance to get around and on the rides and such. I guess maybe blindness isn't considered a disability where you need a companion?

I'm not a lawyer, but its my understanding that the ADA requires equal access not special access.

Having a companion discount seems too much like a discount for being blind. What if the companion just wants to go anyway?

Define a companion, if a family has one blind member. Does someone get the discount because they are the designated companion.

I'm just trying to play devils advocate here not trying to me mean.

 

[daisy37]

As the parent of a visually impaired child I find it offensive that people would question why my daughter would want to come to WDW and that the only reason she would be there is because I made her come. Using your point of view, why would she want to go to a movie, watch TV, do anything other than sit in her room.

My daughter is 21 and is legally blind. She walks with a white cane and can reaad braille. However, many visually impaired people do not read braille. Many older people suffer vision loss due to Macular degeneration. At that point in their lives, they don't want to learn braille or their sense of touch isn't sensitive enough to feel the raised dots.

We have been to Disney many times, some when she was very little and still had decent eyesight and more recently where she would be unable to get around by herself. However, Disney is one of her favorite places to visit and she requests to go there.

I realize that to many of us, it is a visual place. However, there is much to enjoy without being able to see the details. One of her favorite rides is Splash Mountain. Maybe she can't see the Briar patch but she can hear the music and there is the excitement of waiting for the drop and wondering how wet she will get. Space mountain is mostly in the dark (I think, it has been many years since I have been on it, though she goes on it). Disney gives her the chance to go on roller coasters, boats, trains, etc. Most of the rides have music. She even likes Mickey's Philharmagic. While she might not be able to see what is happening she can still hear and smell the attraction.

Until our last trip, we had never requested a GOC card. The only reason we did the last time was because a couple of CMs told us we should.

We have had mostly good experiences. It takes a bit longer to board a ride and my daughter prefers to enter Splash Mountain from the exit. The reason is that it is difficult for her to go up the stairs in the dark with all the people. As far as parades, yes we would prefer to sit in a handicapped area. She needs to be as close as possible to see the floats go by, can she see all the details, no, but she can still enjoy herself.

One other place where the GOC is helpful is at HS for Beauty and the Beast. By sitting up front in the middle she can see some of what is happening.

As far as character experiences, she isn't interested in them anymore, though her little sister (8) still is. I have a Disney Visa so we went to that meet and greet at EPCOT. For those of you who aren't familiar with it, each family meets the characters by themselves. No other guests are inside with you. My younger daughter had her picture taken with Mickey and Pluto. She wanted her big sister in some of the photos so I started to help her over. However, Mickey Mouse came over to where she was standing, took her arm in his and guided her to where they needed to be.

BTW, my daughter is graduating college in the spring with a Fine Arts degree in acting. Not only does she want to "see" the show", she plans on starring int it.

 

[shalom]

Obviously you would need proof that you need a companion, as in that you need assistance to get around and on the rides and such.

According to ADA Disney cannot ask for proof before giving someone a Guest Assistance Card or the like, so I'm guessing they would not be able to demand proof that someone needed a companion before discounting the companion, either. So that's probably an idea Disney is reluctant to implement (otherwise anyone could get an exemption, disabled or not, at least in theory).

I think chartle's right that it wouldn't be legally required, but I also think the "shouldn't have to prove it" aspect makes some American businesses wary of offering some accommodations, or of offering them for free.

As far as parades, yes we would prefer to sit in a handicapped area. She needs to be as close as possible to see the floats go by, can she see all the details, no, but she can still enjoy herself.

I do not understand why Disney won't allow the visually impaired to sit in a handicapped area. In what sense is "visually impaired" not "handicapped"?

 

[raidermatt]

You may think that, but fortunately it's not the law.

The plaintiffs in this case may not be right on either the facts or the law, but it should be emphasized that the purpose of the ADA is to make clear that private entities can't simply decide that it's too much effort to do business with an individual with a disability, and must take reasonable steps to accommodate him/her (just like the Civil Rights Act of 1964 made clear that private entities can't decide not to do business with someone based on their race or gender).

You are right of course. The issue many have though is the interpretation of the word "reasonable" and the associated language in the law.

 

[daisy37]

Several years ago we were at Universal Studios in California. While we were there we found out that they were honoring Police and Fire Fighters with free admission. We had already paid, but my husband was a Police officer. When we went to guest services, they refunded his admission. When they saw that our daughter was visually impaired, they also refunded another admission.

I don't recall if it was her admission or mine as her companion that was refunded. I also don't think that is still their policy.

 

[raidermatt]

According to ADA Disney cannot ask for proof before giving someone a Guest Assistance Card or the like, so I'm guessing they would not be able to demand proof that someone needed a companion before discounting the companion, either. So that's probably an idea Disney is reluctant to implement (otherwise anyone could get an exemption, disabled or not, at least in theory).

I think chartle's right that it wouldn't be legally required, but I also think the "shouldn't have to prove it" aspect makes some American businesses wary of offering some accommodations, or of offering them for free.

True. Anyone who wants a GAC can simply go to guest services, say you have a disability and request one. Hence the abuse of the system.

I do not understand why Disney won't allow the visually impaired to sit in a handicapped area. In what sense is "visually impaired" not "handicapped"?

My guess is that the area is for those whose handicap does not allow them to stand, therefore they would have to arrive much earlier than other guests to get a spot where they could see the show.

A visually impaired person can stand just as well as anybody else and therefore has an equal opportunity to get a good spot.

Per a previous poster though, I suppose the argument could be made that if a visually impaired person has some vision, they might benefit from being closer. But I'm not sure that flies either. Being in the handicapped area doesn't guarantee you a front row spot, or even a spot any closer than the rest of the viewers. All it gives you is a spot where you can arrive at a reasonable time, just like everybody else, and can maneuver your vehicle.

 

[ttintagel]

I'm visually impaired, although not completely blind. I can see enough to enjoy many of the visuals the park has to offer, but man, large-print guides and maps certainly would make things go a lot more smoothly. Being able to stand off to the side in load areas until my eyes adjust to the dark would be great, and slow the rides down less (because I wouldn't stumble getting into vehicles anymore). Heck, a little glow tape on the floor would make a dramatic difference in some places.

Disney does a better job than a lot of companies when it comes to accommodations for the disabled, but there's some room for improvement. And the situation isn't helped when the able-bodied forget the advantages they have, and act jealous when the disabled get a helping hand.

The sad truth is, in a capitalist society like ours, the prospect of losing money sometimes is the only way to get a point across.

 

[GirlDreamer]

According to ADA Disney cannot ask for proof before giving someone a Guest Assistance Card or the like, so I'm guessing they would not be able to demand proof that someone needed a companion before discounting the companion, either. So that's probably an idea Disney is reluctant to implement (otherwise anyone could get an exemption, disabled or not, at least in theory).

They're not allowed to see proof when giving out those cards at all? I mean, I know CM's in the park isn't allowed to ask when people with GAC's enters rides why they have them, but I thought they would be required to show some statement or something from their doctor that they have a disability that makes them unable to queue the normal way.

So in theory that means that me that is perfectly healthy can go get a GAC and get it?

 

[raidermatt]

So in theory that means that me that is perfectly healthy can go get a GAC and get it?

I'm not sure if Disney doesn't require any proof because they are not allowed to, or if they choose not to out of fear of being sued. But yes, if you want one, you can get one. You just have to tell them you have a disability.

 

[chartle]

They're not allowed to see proof when giving out those cards at all? I mean, I know CM's in the park isn't allowed to ask when people with GAC's enters rides why they have them, but I thought they would be required to show some statement or something from their doctor that they have a disability that makes them unable to queue the normal way.

So in theory that means that me that is perfectly healthy can go get a GAC and get it?

Yep

 

[chartle]

I'm not sure if Disney doesn't require any proof because they are not allowed to, or if they choose not to out of fear of being sued. But yes, if you want one, you can get one. You just have to tell them you have a disability.

They can't ask for proof.

 

[disneydentist]

Maps and Menus: no debate here. Should be large print and Braille available.

Lockers: if they are as described, then an attendant would be a good idea.

parade seating: just get there early like anyone else who wants/needs to be up front.

Free/discounted companion admission: NO WAY! Unless all children under the minimu age for admission without an adult also get free admission for the accompanying adlut.

The other compaints I have no basis to comment on.

 

[jsilvers]

58 complaints in 6 years? Less than 10 complaints a YEAR? Two resorts, 6 theme parks, 2 water parks, 10's of thousands of hotel rooms, and we are talking about less than one single complaint per month?

Sorry, but that is not a significant number no matter how one tries to slice it.

As an initial matter, since we don't know how many complaints Disney receives in general, and we also don't know what percentage of guests have the visual or other disabilities at issue who might complain about their treatment, I'm not sure how you can reach a conclusion as to how many complaints are or aren't significant.

And you seem to deliberately overlook the court's explicit conclusion that very few guests can actually be expected to file complaints, even if unhappy, so it wasn't going to consider the number of complaints on file to be determinative.

 

[raidermatt]

Being able to stand off to the side in load areas until my eyes adjust to the dark would be great,

You can do this, just move to the side and allow others to pass until you are ready.

and slow the rides down less (because I wouldn't stumble getting into vehicles anymore).

Do you mean slow them down more? Because they do that for those who need extra help loading/unloading. In this case it would be best to get a GAC first, but then all you have to do is show that and they will accomodate you. If you've ever been on Haunted Mansion and the ride slowed or stopped, this was most likely the reason.

And the situation isn't helped when the able-bodied forget the advantages they have, and act jealous when the disabled get a helping hand.

You're right, we can all be insensitive at times. There are always exceptions of course, but I think the problem for most is not those that truly need help getting it. It's the abuse of the system by those that do not need it. This puts the whole system in a bad light.

 

[raidermatt]

As an initial matter, since we don't know how many complaints Disney receives in general, and we also don't know what percentage of guests have the visual or other disabilities at issue who might complain about their treatment, I'm not sure how you can reach a conclusion as to how many complaints are or aren't significant.

And you seem to deliberately overlook the court's explicit conclusion that very few guests can actually be expected to file complaints, even if unhappy, so it wasn't going to consider the number of complaints on file to be determinative.

We do know Disney receives huge numbers of complaints on a daily basis. Just ask anyone who works in guest services.

And I am not deliberatly overlooking anything. The court is not above criticism and they are wrong to not consider that information.

 

[jsilvers]

We do know Disney receives huge numbers of complaints on a daily basis. Just ask anyone who works in guest services. And I am not deliberatly overlooking anything.

Of course you are. For starters, my comment that we also need to know how many guests have relevant disabilities. If they are few in number, so will the number of complaints, even if they are atypically assertive.

The court is not above criticism and they are wrong to not consider that information.

You're free to criticize, and courts certainly can make mistakes (otherwise there would be no need for appeals).

But if you're going to ask us to choose between you and a federal judge, guess who I'm going to trust (absent any proof of heavy-duty legal credentials on your part, including expertise in the standards for class certification)?

 

[lucyem]

I am actually surprised by some of the lawsuit accusations. My friend went to WDW with her extended family and her mother who is blind and her mother's seeing eye dog. She was given an audio player which described the park to her. For example she could stand on main street and have it described to her. The dog was allowed on almost every ride, including RNR. They have spots all over the place for the dog to relieve itself.

Braille in itself is a whole other issue. Some blind schools are no longer teaching it with all our new technology. My friend's mother does not think this is a good idea but thats where it is going. Did you know sometimes braille writing is put up upside down because the person putting it up obviously has no idea what it says.

Their whole WDW trip went great until the very last day when the bus driver to the airport refused the dog on the bus. He was a little clueless and an hour and a cop later they were finally on the bus to the airport.