Dis Unplugged 6/9/20 - A question about the black experience at Walt Disney World

[kylenne]

yeah, there was definitely debate/discussion about if it made sense or not - was more of just trying to think of a way to get around the marvel restrictions.

There are always rumors about retheming Dinoland in AK, maybe Wakandaland could go there? The focus of AK is on sustainability and concervation and learning about the natural world - maybe the focus there could be on how technology enables that?

Definitely, especially considering it was a theme in the movie even if not stated outright. Wakanda's prosperity and advanced tech comes from vibranium but the land is not despoiled to get it, and science is not at odds with nature. Very easy to fit it in.

 

[Ninjagrrl]

Honest question here. Do you think that may have to do with your appearance other than your race?

I know this has been addressed in the thread already, but there's something i wanted to point out.
Disclaimer: I am not a POC.

Even *IF* people were staring bc she is an attractive woman, the OP will always process it through the filter of her blackness. Because that is something that she has experienced and cannot simply take away. An attractive woman that doesn't like the attention she recieves can do things to try to draw attention away from their appearence, although i personally think that's wrong and a form of victim shaming. A POC cannot stop being a POC. The first thing that will pop into their mind when being treated poorly is always going to be "Is it because i'm black?"

As i said, i am not a POC, but i do have friends and family members who are, and i've had some painful conversations with them. This is what they have told me, not my own conjecturing about what it must be like, bc although i can try to empathize with them, i can never truly know, so i don't theorize.

 

[The WDW 3]

Even *IF* people were staring bc she is an attractive woman, the OP will always process it through the filter of her blackness.

yes, that was well understood from the beginning. That was the basis for me asking the question in the first place.

 

[Ninjagrrl]

yes, that was well understood from the beginning. That was the basis for me asking the question in the first place.

But it makes your point moot, because this is about how POC feel, not intent.

 

[taffeelion]

Just wanted to add my experience.
I love going to Disney, it's an escape, but there is no place in the US where I (and my family) fully let go of being at least a little on-guard and aware of being Black.
To the OP's question, here are some of the things I think may be different.

• I talk to my kids before hand about keeping some distance from others in any line as to not 'provoke' a negative reaction
• I try to make sure we 'stand in the right place' everywhere as to not 'provoke' a negative reaction
• I make sure everyone keeps phones/music/voices low as to not 'provoke' a negative reaction
• In stores, I try to have us move around with purpose and don't stand too close to items to give no one a chance to think we're stealing
• I scan what other people are wearing looking for 'good ole boy' gear like questionable slogans and confederate flags & try to weave around them so my family doesn't see it

It's a little sad writing this because I want my kids to be just kids and have fun, but I'm trying to guard them from people's negative preconceptions and reactions.
Am I overreacting sometimes? Who knows.
But if you've lived my life, you'd probably do similar types of things. We're not crazy or paranoid.
If you didn't know, some people are extremely nasty to Black people and we all have defense mechanisms built up over time.
I wish something better for my kids and their kids.

 

[DisGuy101]

But it makes your point moot, because this is about how POC feel, not intent.

Very much agreed. One thing I can’t stop thinking about is how some people in this thread are so quick to shutdown other posters for complementing the OP. You have to be willing to listen to both perspectives. Honestly, I don’t see anything wrong with complementing someone once it’s done respectfully. What we learned, is that The WDW 3 did not come to judgement based on her color, but rather he saw her as beautiful human being. Have we come to a point in society where we can’t compliment someone in fear of being vilified?

 

[Tonyz]

Just wanted to add my experience.
I love going to Disney, it's an escape, but there is no place in the US where I (and my family) fully let go of being at least a little on-guard and aware of being Black.
To the OP's question, here are some of the things I think may be different.

• I talk to my kids before hand about keeping some distance from others in any line as to not 'provoke' a negative reaction
• I try to make sure we 'stand in the right place' everywhere as to not 'provoke' a negative reaction
• I make sure everyone keeps phones/music/voices low as to not 'provoke' a negative reaction
• In stores, I try to have us move around with purpose and don't stand too close to items to give no one a chance to think we're stealing
• I scan what other people are wearing looking for 'good ole boy' gear like questionable slogans and confederate flags & try to weave around them so my family doesn't see it

It's a little sad writing this because I want my kids to be just kids and have fun, but I'm trying to guard them from people's negative preconceptions and reactions.
Am I overreacting sometimes? Who knows.
But if you've lived my life, you'd probably do similar types of things. We're not crazy or paranoid.
If you didn't know, some people are extremely nasty to Black people and we all have defense mechanisms built up over time.
I wish something better for my kids and their kids.

Thanks for sharing. I’m sure it was hard to write. Of course I’m aware some miserable pieces of garbage can’t keep their prejudices to themselves - I’m just hoping they could tone it down in the Most Magical Place on Earth.

I think I can speak for everyone in this discussion when I say don’t worry about “keeping your distance” around any of us.

Oh, and I too try to stay away from the “good ol’ boy”/confederate flag wearing sort. To me, avoiding those people is just common sense.

 

[RapunzelIsMyHomeGirl]

Very much agreed. One thing I can’t stop thinking about is how some people in this thread are so quick to shutdown other posters for complementing the OP. You have to be willing to listen to both perspectives. Honestly, I don’t see anything wrong with complementing someone once it’s done respectfully. What we learned, is that The WDW 3 did not come to judgement based on her color, but rather he saw her as beautiful human being. Have we come to a point in society where we can’t compliment someone in fear of being vilified?

That is not what happened. They asked if they perhaps could be looking at her because she is beautiful? Which fully questions her entire experience she shared with us. POC/BPOC are asked/questioned all of the time if their perception is wrong. We can't keep forgiving these things. The questioner can learn but we can't say it's okay anymore. Everyone has to learn to not do those things.

 

[DisGuy101]

That is not what happened. They asked if they perhaps could be looking at her because she is beautiful? Which fully questions her entire experience she shared with us. POC/BPOC are asked/questioned all of the time if their perception is wrong. We can't keep forgiving these things. The questioner can learn but we can't say it's okay anymore. Everyone has to learn to not do those things.

I agree 100% that the OP’s experience should to be respected, but it is not the only factor at play here. You have two parties involved in the situation. One is making an assumption about the other. No one really knows what other other party is thinking until it is actually confirmed by action. That is why it is a good idea to have the types of conversations we are having. To hear both sides. If you keep shuttling down people, no one will ever voice their opinion, and no one will learn anything. I admit that I have a lot to learn about the other side as a POC. That is why I am here. Yeah. It has occurred to me that I might be wrong on this. I am listening...

 

[Lindsey17]

It's a little sad writing this because I want my kids to be just kids and have fun, but I'm trying to guard them from people's negative preconceptions and reactions.

This just makes me so sad and something that has really hit home with me once I became a mother and quickly realized that even though all moms worry about their kids, there are differences in what we worry about the most. My son is 6 so 10 years from now when he's driving I'll be worried about him getting into an accident, being safe etc., but I don't worry about him being pulled over or at least being pulled over simply because of the color of his skin and how he may be treated differently because of that. I wish some of the people who are closed minded on the term white privilege would just stop and think about it. No one is saying you didn't have a tough life all it's saying is that the color of your skin didn't make it tougher.

I really hope we're finally at a turning point and that your kids can finally only worry about what kids should worry about, especially in a place like WDW. Those worries should be, how many more rides they can fit in before it's time to go, worrying about what they're going to say when they meet their favorite character or a sibling getting the last of that bucket of popcorn.

 

[RapunzelIsMyHomeGirl]

I agree 100% that the OP’s experience should to be respected, but it is not the only factor at play here. You have two parties involved in the situation. One is making an assumption about the other. No one really knows what other other party is thinking until it is actually confirmed by action. That is why it is a good idea to have the types of conversations we are having. To hear both sides. If you keep shuttling down people, no one will ever voice their opinion, and no one will learn anything. I admit that I have a lot to learn about the other side as a POC. That is why I am here. Yeah. It has occurred to me that I might be wrong on this. I am listening...

No one shut them down. They were allowed to speak. Then they were educated on why that type of questioning isn't okay.

 

[kylenne]

It's a little sad writing this because I want my kids to be just kids and have fun, but I'm trying to guard them from people's negative preconceptions and reactions.
Am I overreacting sometimes? Who knows.
But if you've lived my life, you'd probably do similar types of things. We're not crazy or paranoid.
If you didn't know, some people are extremely nasty to Black people and we all have defense mechanisms built up over time.

I feel you on this and tbh these defense mechanisms become so ingrained to the point of being second nature, I know I just don’t think about it. I've literally been doing it since childhood, we do these things for survival. Black families and especially black mothers are judged much more harshly, I know I don't have to tell you that. Growing up on our family trips I knew I had to be on extra best behavior.

I don't have kids so I don't have that to think about. But my experiences in the parks are colored by not just by race but by being in an interracial same sex relationship. It really "does not compute" sometimes that my gf and I are romantically involved, even when we're blatantly holding hands, and a lot of that is racial.

Re: this conversation about looks, apparently I have that poster on ignore so I'll just say that there's a lot of gaslighting that happens to POC and particularly WOC when it comes to our experiences. People do not trust that we know racism when we see it, even though we've seen it our whole lives. I've talked about that experience I had in the GF spa before, and people really like to think it was just in my head, or I was looking for hostility where none was intended, etc. As if I haven't spent a lifetime being the One Black Face in spaces like that, knowing what some folks think about my presence there. I didn't get stared at there, or at the Poly, or at Beach Club because people thought I was pretty. I got stared at because racists don't believe that black people can afford to be guests in those places, and don't think we belong there. Well, I work hard and I earn every penny that goes into vacations, I have every right to be there. That's why I don't pay them any mind lol. They can stay mad tbh.

 

[RapunzelIsMyHomeGirl]

I agree 100% that the OP’s experience should to be respected, but it is not the only factor at play here. You have two parties involved in the situation. One is making an assumption about the other. No one really knows what other other party is thinking until it is actually confirmed by action. That is why it is a good idea to have the types of conversations we are having. To hear both sides. If you keep shuttling down people, no one will ever voice their opinion, and no one will learn anything. I admit that I have a lot to learn about the other side as a POC. That is why I am here. Yeah. It has occurred to me that I might be wrong on this. I am listening...

Since you said you are listening, there is really great education out there on the concept of "white fragility". It is really important to read. I am not sure if we are allowed to link articles on the DIS, but the title of the book on the matter is "White Fragility: Why It's So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism". It's an important concept to understand and a great place to start for some on understanding how they can be an ally but most importantly question themselves and do some hard work.

 

[CJK]

To the OP's question, here are some of the things I think may be different.

• I talk to my kids before hand about keeping some distance from others in any line as to not 'provoke' a negative reaction
• I try to make sure we 'stand in the right place' everywhere as to not 'provoke' a negative reaction
• I make sure everyone keeps phones/music/voices low as to not 'provoke' a negative reaction
• In stores, I try to have us move around with purpose and don't stand too close to items to give no one a chance to think we're stealing
• I scan what other people are wearing looking for 'good ole boy' gear like questionable slogans and confederate flags & try to weave around them so my family doesn't see it

As a white, middle aged woman, this made me cry to read. Thank you (and to everyone on this thread) for this very important and overdue conversation. I've always considered myself open-minded and loving with friends of many different races. Yet, reading this thread, I've realized how ignorant I am for never having this conversation with my friends before. In my high school, you could count the number of black students on one hand. I was actually good friends with one girl, and I NEVER had any conversation with her about race. In retrospect, I can't believe it. We are having that conversation now.

 

[kylenne]

Also like, I know when staring isn't motivated by ugly things. If you've never had colorful hair before, it's like candy to kids. And one night coming back to the Poly from MK I managed to stop a kid's tantrum dead in its tracks because she was mesmerized by my purple hair and asked her mom in totally sincere wonder if I was a fairy princess and mom told her I was, so she should be quiet and good. I had no idea any of this went down until afterwards when my gf told me, because I was so tired myself. We laughed the whole rest of the trip about it.

Kids have to be taught how to hate.

 

[CJK]

I have a sincere question for black people about Splash Mountain. I'd like to preface this, by saying that I've never seen the Song of the South movie. All I know about the movie, is that it's extremely racist and not available for rent/purchase. I understand that the Br'er characters of Splash Mountain are also from that movie. Again, I don't know anything about the story outside of the ride itself. My question is this. Is the ride itself offensive to you? Since there's a petition going around asking for the theme to change to Princess & the Frog, I'm thinking that the ride is offensive? I wasn't sure if this petition is because the story is based on the Song of the South movie, or, if the petition is based solely on the ride characters & story. Thank you so much for your thoughts. I am so grateful for the honesty and guidance in this thread.

 

[The WDW 3]

But it makes your point moot, because this is about how POC feel, not intent.

again, I’m not questioning how Someone feels. I’m 100% certain that those feelings are real and valid.

 

[kylenne]

I have a sincere question for black people about Splash Mountain. I'd like to preface this, by saying that I've never seen the Song of the South movie. All I know about the movie, is that it's extremely racist and not available for rent/purchase. I understand that the Br'er characters of Splash Mountain are also from that movie. Again, I don't know anything about the story outside of the ride itself. My question is this. Is the ride itself offensive to you? Since there's a petition going around asking for the theme to change to Princess & the Frog, I'm thinking that the ride is offensive? I wasn't sure if this petition is because the story is based on the Song of the South movie, or, if the petition is based solely on the ride characters & story. Thank you so much for your thoughts. I am so grateful for the honesty and guidance in this thread.

It's complicated. I love Splash Mountain and quite honestly think it manages to avoid the ugliness of the movie. But it's also really depressing to me that people are unaware of the history of the real folk tales behind the characters. Br'er Rabbit and friends weren't invented for Song of the South, their origins can be traced back to trickster figures from West African mythology and the stories were first told and passed down by enslaved Black Americans. Joel Chandler Harris just collected and embellished them and published them as the Uncle Remus stories that Song of the South was based on. The racism of that movie and its context overshadow everything, and it's almost like a textbook example of why cultural appropriation is awful. At the same time, that's why I'm ultimately ok with the ride, it's firmly focused on the characters and not the ugly framing device of the movie. The thing is I can only speak for myself as a black Disney fan, I don't presume to speak for a whole community and I would never tell anyone else that they're wrong to feel differently. We're not monolithic and we come at things differently. I get why that petition was made and I honor those feelings as being valid. I also don't think Splash is so sacred that a re-theme is out of the question. I just don't think there's an easy answer to this. It's not nearly as cut and dried to me as something like POR's theme, which sincerely should have went a long time ago rather than being whitewashed.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Also for those who have never seen Song of The South. Its set in the reconstruction period. The slaves were free but the only thing that changed was their legal status. Due to the slavery system the freed slaves were uneducated and low skilled and and it was a time of great hardship as families tried to reconnect and find a way to support themselves.

While in Song of The South the former slaves are happy and joyful and its all just zippedooda.

 

[columbusdizfan]

No one shut them down. They were allowed to speak. Then they were educated on why that type of questioning isn't okay.

Also, it’s about context. Is right now the compliment you are paying to someone something that will detract from them feeling heard.
No one is saying that the person who posted that question is evil or had bad intent. Just maybe inadvertently did something that may make someone feel like they weren’t being heard.

This moment in history is one where I want to show up with eyes, ears and heart open and ready to see what is being shown to me, hear what people are saying even if it is hard or points out mistakes I have been making.

I was the person who initially just shut the commenter down. I admire the others who first asked what he meant