Dis Unplugged 6/9/20 - A question about the black experience at Walt Disney World

[sweetpeama]

'On notice' concept is something I can recognize even tho not a POC. It can be seen on the buses when people choose seats that are not next to POC, or tables at food courts, striking up conversation at resorts or bringing kids over to an area where others are playing. Subtle but I have no doubt it exists, often intentional tho sometimes even subconscious.

Hard to navigate because you can't know the motives behind each instance, you can detect the overall difference. Hopefully more and more people are getting it to question our own behaviors.

I will admit that as someone who is not a POC I have chosen not to sit next to someone but for me it is a case of I am person of size the other person no matter what the color is s person of size and the space is definently not large enough for two people of size to be comfortable so why make us both misserable when I can sit elsewhere and even though chances are both of us will have someone sitting beside us hopefully we both get a much smaller person like a child, or my not even 3 ft around DH, or my aunt who doesn't weight 90 pounds dripping wet (not underweight either as aunt is only 4 ft 10 and 3/4 of an inch tall and if you ever forgot that 3/4 of an inch you were in trouble) so we both have increased chances of being more comfortable.

 

[Heather07438]

I will admit that as someone who is not a POC I have chosen not to sit next to someone but for me it is a case of I am person of size the other person no matter what the color is s person of size and the space is definently not large enough for two people of size to be comfortable so why make us both misserable when I can sit elsewhere and even though chances are both of us will have someone sitting beside us hopefully we both get a much smaller person like a child, or my not even 3 ft around DH, or my aunt who doesn't weight 90 pounds dripping wet (not underweight either as aunt is only 4 ft 10 and 3/4 of an inch tall and if you ever forgot that 3/4 of an inch you were in trouble) so we both have increased chances of being more comfortable.

That's understandable. There are plenty of times when color is not a motive to choices made. That makes it more complicated because most POC realize there can be unrelated reasons. It lingers as a grey area where case by case you don't know. Sometimes it's just the sense it's happening more often to you compared to others around. It's easy to question after a lifetime of very clear racist judgements directed at you.

Hear how TummyGirl put it:

I never usually post but i wanted to weigh in with my specific experiences. When at Disney, it does totally feel like a magical place but I never forget that I'm a black person often in a sea of white people. In the parks, i usually have a great and fun experience. It's usually on the buses or at the resorts that i'll, at times, feel not completely uncomfortable, but "on notice." It's hard to describe exactly how it feels and of course at times I may be feeling a bit hypersensitive when all anyone else is thinking about is getting ready to run at rope drop, but it's something that doesn't turn off just because I am in the Disney bubble. It's not something that ever goes away and it shouldn't. I know that my feelings are a result of a lifetime of having to face and deal with the same racist judgements no matter where I am.

I wish i could be more eloquent with explaining and someone else probably will be (and I'm a copywriter by day! ahh!) but i wanted to say a little something.

 

[Tonyz]

from the picture that I see it looks like she is extremely attractive. That’s why I would be looking at her if she walked into the room. I thought that would have been obvious

 

[DisGuy101]

The WDW 3 goes.....

 

[PamNC]

I agree that it could strike a nerve, but is there another way to describe them? Maybe that section needs to be remodeled.

I thought they were called Mansions. I live in an old old house in the south... some people call mine a plantation house but it certainly isn't or never was LOL.

 

[ErinWonderland]

from the picture that I see it looks like she is extremely attractive. That’s why I would be looking at her if she walked into the room. I thought that would have been obvious when I asked the Question. Sorry for the lack of detail.

I understood what you meant. First thing I noticed is how pretty she is.

 

[MickeyNana]

On my first trip with my children in the 90s I wasonly person questioned when getting on the bus for the Contemporary resort, I did not complain even though it bothered me. Leaving MK after the fireworks, my family and I were questioned about riding the resort monorail when we were staying at a monorail resort. No one else was. I complained. The last time something happened involving a passenger on a bus going to Port Orleans Riverside. I was the only person of color on the bus. Other passengers offered apologies. My complaint was that the driver never said a word. Disney was concerned about my complaints and took them seriously and followed up. I go to Disney at least once a year, more often when I can. For over 25 years the experience has been wonderful. An experience here or there but I love being in that Bubble.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

YUP!!! It's like I KNOW everyone is here to have a good time and let go of everyday worries but I still feel slightly off kilter.

When i say buses and resorts, i think it's because those are places where we are all gathered in relatively smaller-than-the-theme-park spaces (again relatively! stayed at saratoga and legit got lost) and there's more, for lack of a better word, intimate interaction. Think those crowded buses after closing. Even as I type, I can understand how, if one has never felt out of place or singled out because of their skin color (or how they physically look even), then it may seem unimaginable, but trust it's a very real feeling.

EXACTLY! You know you're only a stone's throw away from someone who is a bigot.

 

[DisGuy101]

On my first trip with my children in the 90s I wasonly person questioned when getting on the bus for the Contemporary resort, I did not complain even though it bothered me. Leaving MK after the fireworks, my family and I were questioned about riding the resort monorail when we were staying at a monorail resort. No one else was. I complained. The last time something happened involving a passenger on a bus going to Port Orleans Riverside. I was the only person of color on the bus. Other passengers offered apologies. My complaint was that the driver never said a word. Disney was concerned about my complaints and took them seriously and followed up. I go to Disney at least once a year, more often when I can. For over 25 years the experience has been wonderful. An experience here or there but I love being in that Bubble.

I have decided that if that ever happens to me again, I am calling it out right then and there instead of sitting on it to avoid confrontation.

 

[Heather07438]

Maybe I'm too eager to feel protective because it'd be great to hear more first hand accounts. I still hear non-POC defend that racism isn't really a thing anymore like POC should just stop 'imagining' it. It gets frustrating.

Being attractive doesn't reduce the potential impact. We don't know her childhood, her experiences, her family's, etc.

 

[TummyGirl]

Maybe I'm too eager to feel protective because it'd be great to hear more first hand accounts. I still hear non-POC defend that racism isn't really a thing anymore like POC should just stop 'imagining' it. It gets frustrating.

Being attractive doesn't reduce the potential impact. We don't know her childhood, her experiences, her family's, etc.

I have to say that I was very excited to come back and see that this thread is on 3 pages! It's very heartening to see that people want to have this conversation and also that we (speaking for myself as a black woman but including all persons of color) can share things that we may have held close to us for fear of judgment (you're overreacting, not EVERYONE is like that, etc...).

I have had a some feelings on the subjects of the former Dixie Landings, Song of the South, Splash Mountain theme, even the crows in Dumbo. I think that deserves it's own thread honestly! There's so much to unpack there. Personally, never chose (and my parents when they were the ones spending the bucks to take me) to stay at Dixie Landing simply because of the connotations. That's a reflection of my comfort level. I have a much longer and deeper reason for feeling this way so i won't derail too much!

I think what white people and maybe even some non-black POC fail to understand is how being surrounded by these themes and images and what they mean and/or once signified, can be extremely off-putting. I know the history and i know that "things were different then" but that doesn't mean it was ever right and also that black people "back then" felt ok around it. My opinion is that just because something was accepted doesn't mean it has to be excused. I will always call out the inappropriateness. I can't change that it existed (duh, can't change the past) but I won't accept it as just an element of the times.

I would love to hear more personal stories and accounts because it helps me to feel not as alone-good, bad, ugly and in-between! I really enjoy this board and all the podcasts and hope that we can make a space for us to feel comfortable with speaking up more here.

 

[disneyland_is_magic]

I have to say that I was very excited to come back and see that this thread is on 3 pages! It's very heartening to see that people want to have this conversation

Yes and believe it could/would be longer, but some like myself would rather listen. But I am definitely glad the OP started this thread.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Maybe I'm too eager to feel protective because it'd be great to hear more first hand accounts. I still hear non-POC defend that racism isn't really a thing anymore like POC should just stop 'imagining' it. It gets frustrating.

I am just one white person but I'd like to think views are changing - I know mine are. Not that I ever thought racism "isn't really a thing anymore" but I don't think I realized/understood how prevalent it is and just how much it impacts all aspects of daily life for so many POC. It probably has to do with the fact I didn't see it so didn't know it was still going on - guess that is pretty much the definition of ignorant, so i guess I was (and I am sure still am) ignorant.

This might be a weird comparison but makes me think of how there are differing views of the seriousness of Covid-19. I live in NY and when I see people who live other places say that it is no big deal I can't understand why they feel that way - but I do know they aren't seeing what I am seeing.

 

[Diswizard]

I think we should tweet the request on their Twitter page in a manor that is respectful and coveys good reasoning regarding the historical Impact of that naming. Now... how do I create a twitter account? LOL. I am one who likes to stay low and out of trouble but now is the time to speak out I guess.

Just curious as to why you have negative thoughts when you hear this word... assuming it's the word "plantation". If it's the reason I think you will say then would you also like to remove the word "South" on the maps and elsewhere? Just trying to make the point that there are a lot of common words that you can assign some negative connotation to if you try hard enough. We should not be so sensitive to every little insignificant thing. Life is already too stressful as it is.

 

[RapunzelIsMyHomeGirl]

"From the stately white-column mansions of Magnolia Bend to Alligator Bayou’s quaint backwoods cottages, delight in a picturesque setting that evokes the romance of rural Louisiana. Take a short walk along the Sassagoula River to Disney's Port Orleans Resort – French Quarter, known for Southern specialties like gumbo, jambalaya and beignets."

Disney no longer references "plantations" when describing those buildings. They are always called mansions. The non Disney owned sites that still use that language need to do an update.

For anyone that has described their experiences in this thread I hear you and care for you.

I do have to denounce the "she' beautiful" and "Okay, now I get you meant she was beautiful". And the "Dopey diamond eyes" photo. This is not okay. She gave us her experience. Questioning it in that way, or saying that it's okay to question it, or putting up a picture of Dopey thinking she's beautiful isn't okay. The OP came back on and wrote a beautiful post and brushed by the comments so I am sticking up for anyone that shares their experience here or anywhere. We listen, learn, we don't question it, especially with "she's beautiful". Her "beauty" had nothing to do with her experience. Asking a question like that after she shared her experience about her race is a form of racism even if the person asking it doesn't realize that it is or it wasn't their "intent". Let's do better on the rest of this thread because I honestly might be discouraged to share my story if a.) I saw those comments and b.) I didn't see that the majority of the commentators on the thread realized that those type of comments aren't okay.

Many people are calling for Splash to be re-themed to Princess and the Frog. I will support what makes everyone feel safe and comfortable in the park, and what we do to make sure the park reflects and IS an inclusive environment.

 

[DisGuy101]

I am just one white person but I'd like to think views are changing - I know mine are. Not that I ever thought racism "isn't really a thing anymore" but I don't think I realized/understood how prevalent it is and just how much it impacts all aspects of daily life for so many POC. It probably has to do with the fact I didn't see it so didn't know it was still going on - guess that is pretty much the definition of ignorant, so i guess I was (and I am sure still am) ignorant.

This might be a weird comparison but makes me think of how there are differing views of the seriousness of Covid-19. I live in NY and when I see people who live other places say that it is no big deal I can't understand why they feel that way - but I do know they aren't seeing what I am seeing.

This might be a little off topic but I an going to piggy back off your COVID-19 statement and NY. There was a short period of time when other states like RI were stopping cars with NY license plates. That practice was ended. A while ago, a group of residents from an island town in Maine cut down a tree and dragged it into the middle of a road in an attempt to forcibly quarantine three roommates they believed could have the coronavirus after arriving from NY.

This wasn’t racism, but it was sort of a territorial/protectionist thing in my mind that could have easily gotten more out of hand. My point is that people can get crazy real fast when they feel threatened and afraid. You could see on the news that firearm ammunition was out of stock, and gun sales were up. I’ve noticed this trend when ever the protests start.

 

[Tonyz]

We should not be so sensitive to every little insignificant thing. Life is already too stressful as it is.

We should also not assume everyone has the same reaction to things that we do, especially if it’s something that could potentially be painful to a group that has a different perspective based on the past.

I don’t think it’s a great look for us to tell people what they should and should not be comfortable with.

 

[DisGuy101]

"From the stately white-column mansions of Magnolia Bend to Alligator Bayou’s quaint backwoods cottages, delight in a picturesque setting that evokes the romance of rural Louisiana. Take a short walk along the Sassagoula River to Disney's Port Orleans Resort – French Quarter, known for Southern specialties like gumbo, jambalaya and beignets."

Disney no longer references "plantations" when describing those buildings. They are always called mansions. The non Disney owned sites that still use that language need to do an update.

For anyone that has described their experiences in this thread I hear you and care for you.

I do have to denounce the "she' beautiful" and "Okay, now I get you meant she was beautiful". And the "Dopey diamond eyes" photo. This is not okay. She gave us her experience. Questioning it in that way, or saying that it's okay to question it, or putting up a picture of Dopey thinking she's beautiful isn't okay. The OP came back on and wrote a beautiful post and brushed by the comments so I am sticking up for anyone that shares their experience here or anywhere. We listen, learn, we don't question it, especially with "she's beautiful". Her "beauty" had nothing to do with her experience. Asking a question like that after she shared her experience about her race is a form of racism even if the person asking it doesn't realize that it is or it wasn't their "intent". Let's do better on the rest of this thread because I honestly might be discouraged to share my story if a.) I saw those comments and b.) I didn't see that the majority of the commentators on the thread realized that those type of comments aren't okay.

Many people are calling for Splash to be re-themed to Princess and the Frog. I will support what makes everyone feel safe and comfortable in the park, and what we do to make sure the park reflects and IS an inclusive environment.

You are right about Dopey. However, I would like to point out that was meant to poke fun at the person who made the statement, not at her. I do see your point of view now about it though, so I took it down.

 

[Tonyz]

"From the stately white-column mansions of Magnolia Bend to Alligator Bayou’s quaint backwoods cottages, delight in a picturesque setting that evokes the romance of rural Louisiana. Take a short walk along the Sassagoula River to Disney's Port Orleans Resort – French Quarter, known for Southern specialties like gumbo, jambalaya and beignets."

Disney no longer references "plantations" when describing those buildings. They are always called mansions. The non Disney owned sites that still use that language need to do an update.

For anyone that has described their experiences in this thread I hear you and care for you.

I do have to denounce the "she' beautiful" and "Okay, now I get you meant she was beautiful". And the "Dopey diamond eyes" photo. This is not okay. She gave us her experience. Questioning it in that way, or saying that it's okay to question it, or putting up a picture of Dopey thinking she's beautiful isn't okay. The OP came back on and wrote a beautiful post and brushed by the comments so I am sticking up for anyone that shares their experience here or anywhere. We listen, learn, we don't question it, especially with "she's beautiful". Her "beauty" had nothing to do with her experience. Asking a question like that after she shared her experience about her race is a form of racism even if the person asking it doesn't realize that it is or it wasn't their "intent". Let's do better on the rest of this thread because I honestly might be discouraged to share my story if a.) I saw those comments and b.) I didn't see that the majority of the commentators on the thread realized that those type of comments aren't okay.

Many people are calling for Splash to be re-themed to Princess and the Frog. I will support what makes everyone feel safe and comfortable in the park, and what we do to make sure the park reflects and IS an inclusive environment.

Well said about the “she’s so pretty” nonsense. I tried to brush it off just so it wouldn’t continue and make her (even more) potentially uncomfortable. But kudos to you for addressing it with eloquence.

But no to re-theming Splash Mountain. Do whatever else you want, but don’t touch Splash.

 

[Tonyz]

You are right about Dopey. However, I would like to point out that was meant to poke fun at the person who made the statement, not at her. I do see your point of view now about it though, so I took it down.

Yeah that’s exactly how I took it as well!