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[wabbott]

Walker insulted Roy E and told him they were not going to let him have any input. That is what started the machine in motion to out Ron. Ron's tenure saw some great creativity - EPCOT, Touchstone, Tron, The Black Hole, The Rescuers, The Black Cauldron - not huge money makers, but like Walt - they kept swinging for the fence and took chances. Most of Walt's movies didn't make any money either - but when they did (Snow White, Mary Poppins), they funded his ideas.

I don't fault Eisner's era - he had creativity and didn't just buy it like Iger did. It's a shame Eisner couldn't keep himself together.

Ain't it the truth. Eisner's first ten years were some of the most magical in the company's history. But he's a human animal, like all of us, and great success often is followed by a great unraveling.

 

[HokieRaven5]

That would imply the Street likes the former heir apparents getting involved, as do I.

Yup, time to start rectifying the errors of the board of the past that led us to the Chapek era.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Yup, time to start rectifying the errors of the board of the past that led us to the Chapek era.

Most of the stuff Chapek gets blamed for was greenlit under Iger. People seem to forget that Chapek wasn't really in charge but like 18 months. Films and big series are multiple years in development. Disney+ and theatrical are what's really dragging Disney down right now. The theme parks may be a little down, but they still make some really good profit.

 

[BrianL]

Ain't it the truth. Eisner's first ten years were some of the most magical in the company's history. But he's a human animal, like all of us, and great success often is followed by a great unraveling.

The thing about Iger is that he let his people do their thing and in his initial run he put a lot of the right people in place. When Eisner had Frank Wells running the show, things were great. Without Frank, he could never be as successful as he was. I fear the same will be true of Iger's second tenure, though having Staggs and Mayer back in the fold is a good sign. I honestly think that Alan Horn was a huge factor in studio success over his tenure.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

The thing about Iger is that he let his people do their thing and in his initial run he put a lot of the right people in place. When Eisner had Frank Wells running the show, things were great. Without Frank, he could never be as successful as he was. I fear the same will be true of Iger's second tenure, thoguh having Staggs and Mayer back int eh fold is a good sign. I honestly think that Alan Horn was a huge factor in studio success over his tenure.

And Lasseter at Pixar, his creative vision seems to be sorely missed over there.

I do agree with your main point though, the best leaders seem to hire great people and then get out of their way.

 

[HokieRaven5]

Most of the stuff Chapek gets blamed for was greenlit under Iger. People seem to forget that Chapek wasn't really in charge but like 18 months. Films and big series are multiple years in development. Disney+ and theatrical are what's really dragging Disney down right now. The theme parks may be a little down, but they still make some really good profit.

Under Chapek the decision was made to send many theatrical releases directly to D+ rather than hold them for a later theatrical release in the interest in chasing subscriber growth. Led to families and individuals becoming accustomed to near immediate releases on D+ and little to no reason to go to see a Disney movie in theaters.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Under Chapek the decision was made to send many theatrical releases directly to D+ rather than hold them for a later theatrical release in the interest in chasing subscriber growth. Led to families and individuals becoming accustomed to near immediate releases on D+ and little to no reason to go to see a Disney movie in theaters.

Yep, that's fair. That was a really bad decision in hindsight. Iger kept his office and was still there a good bit during this time, so I am not 100% sure he wasn't at least partly involved with this decision.

 

[BrianL]

And Lasseter at Pixar, his creative vision seems to be sorely missed over there.

I mean, yeah. Even if he was problematic, he is also a genius. I understand that he's a tricky case, though it feels like they might have been able to address the concerns without cutting him out completely. I don't really know the whole story though and sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I mena, yeah. Even if he was problematic, he is also a genius. I understand that he's a tricky case, thoguh it feels like they might have been able to address the concerns without cutting him out completely. I don't really know the whole story though and sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Yeah me neither, sometimes the mistakes are just too bad to forge a path forward together. I just know the guy had a knack for determining the framework of a hit movie.

My first manager right out of college got fired because of a workplace romantic relationship that went south. Great manager and the company thrived under his leadership, but some mistakes are just not forgivable.

 

[wabbott]

The thing about Iger is that he let his people do their thing and in his initial run he put a lot of the right people in place. When Eisner had Frank Wells running the show, things were great. Without Frank, he could never be as successful as he was. I fear the same will be true of Iger's second tenure, thoguh having Staggs and Mayer back int eh fold is a good sign. I honestly think that Alan Horn was a huge factor in studio success over his tenure.

I know I've probably mentioned this before, but it was very significant that Franks Wells DID NOT report to Eisner. He reported directly to the Board of Directors, so he was more of a co-equal COO to Eisner's CEO. Many times Eisner would have a plan or make a decision, and Wells had the clout to make changes to what Eisner wanted.

After Wells was killed, all the subsequent replacements reported to Eisner. That's when things began to unravel. The board never should have allowed Eisner to amass that much power. I guess they felt that since he did such a good job in turning the company around, he knew what he was doing.

 

[wabbott]

I mena, yeah. Even if he was problematic, he is also a genius. I understand that he's a tricky case, thoguh it feels like they might have been able to address the concerns without cutting him out completely. I don't really know the whole story though and sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Maybe they can fit him with some of those three-fingered mittens the characters wear - maybe that might cut down on the groping...

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

So what's this I have been hearing about the creators of the board going through some scandals and maybe the future of this board is now in question? Is this old news, as I am not always the most up to date on info?

 

[BrianL]

Maybe they can fit him with some of those three-fingered mittens the characters wear - maybe that might cut down on the groping...

I don't really know all the details of the issue, but don't want to get into all that. I assume that HR did what they felt was best. That said, it is apparent the impact his departure has had on the output.

 

[firefly_ris]

Many mistakes, and I grew up with Eisner so I'm probably biased, but I liked him and I think he did have a certain amount of creativity and care for the brand and its history that I haven't felt in the Bobs. I never cared for Iger in either company decisions or how he conveyed his personality. Chapek even worse... I dunno. This is a unique company and so to me the personality is part of the big puzzle.

 

[RivShore]

Under Chapek the decision was made to send many theatrical releases directly to D+ rather than hold them for a later theatrical release in the interest in chasing subscriber growth. Led to families and individuals becoming accustomed to near immediate releases on D+ and little to no reason to go to see a Disney movie in theaters.

The scary thing is that Iger was supposedly overseeing creative once he handed things over to Chapek. That would imply that all the stuff coming out since, passed by his desk in one way or another.

We have seen that if stuff is creative and good enough, it will break thru at the box office, whether or not people expect it to be streaming soon. People had to assume Mario/Spiderverse/Barbie would be streaming sooner than later and they still went, for various reasons. That is not happening enough with too many Disney releases this year.

 

[clarker99]

The scary thing is that Iger was supposedly overseeing creative once he handed things over to Chapek. That would imply that all the stuff coming out since, passed by his desk in one way or another.

We have seen that if stuff is creative and good enough, it will break thru at the box office, whether or not people expect it to be streaming soon. People had to assume Mario/Spiderverse/Barbie would be streaming sooner than later and they still went, for various reasons. That is not happening enough with too many Disney releases this year.

My theory is that people know that Disney stuff will end up on Disney+. Joe Blow has no clue where Barbie or Spider-verse will end up.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

The scary thing is that Iger was supposedly overseeing creative once he handed things over to Chapek. That would imply that all the stuff coming out since, passed by his desk in one way or another.

We have seen that if stuff is creative and good enough, it will break thru at the box office, whether or not people expect it to be streaming soon. People had to assume Mario/Spiderverse/Barbie would be streaming sooner than later and they still went, for various reasons. That is not happening enough with too many Disney releases this year.

This is exactly why I have a tough time blaming all the rough Disney+ and Theatrical performance on Chapek. I just don't know how much he could have messed up all the plans in just 18 months. I strongly suspect Iger was still very involved in what was getting made and distributed.

 

[clarker99]

Also, people spend to much time worrying about box office. Literally, zero impact on share price.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Also, people spend to much time worrying about box office. Literally, zero impact on share price.

Yeah, I am not sure I can agree with that. If Disney had a string of massive $Billion box office hits right now instead of all the poor performances......I think the investors would take note.

Big performances in Disney's owned IPs are what creates your future merchandising sales and even the parks future plans.

The parks benefit greatly when Disney is winning in the box office it seems to me. For example Super Mario was a massive box office hit, and is now leading to Mario themed attractions being added to the Universal parks.

 

[Methos]

Ain't it the truth. Eisner's first ten years were some of the most magical in the company's history. But he's a human animal, like all of us, and great success often is followed by a great unraveling.

Exactly. I think Ron, Card, and the old team did a great job keeping things moving forward- just not a short term profitable one. Eisner had a lot of bad ideas, but he had good ones too and he leveraged the old Imagineers well. Sure he pushed them out of their comfort zone a bit (Alien Encounter), but he also let them flourish. He tolerated the people he knew he had to have (like Nunis), but in the end, his paranoia and selfishness did him in.

People don't like to talk about it, but Walt and Roy also created a personal war which lasts in their families to this day.