Direct Pricing- Riviera brilliance

[Drew729]

What are your thoughts on direct pricing in regards to Riviera vs the others at WDW?

I bring this up because I noticed the $180 price tag on SSR which leaves OKW as the lowest per point at $165. We know dues are lower at SSR which is helpful but is there a chance that OKW gets pushed up to $180 as well?

This scenario has to make Riviera with incentives pretty attractive even with the resale restrictions to new members and even existing members looking for a small add on. I recall in 2018 that OWW/SSR were like $145 direct but Copper Creek which was the one in active sales with incentives was closer to $175-180. That was a decent spread between the lowest cost resort vs active sales resort in initial cost per point but now not so much of a spread.

Is this a brilliant sales tactic or something else?

 

[Sandisw]

I can’t say why DVD made the choices that they did, but I definitely think for those new buyers who want RIV, will see the price difference now as minimum that it could lead them to it,

RIV gives someone 16 extra years too. For younger buyers, this should be seen as a positive.

And, if the DVC guides are paying attention to resale, it’s not doom and gloom like we all thought with its sale price right now so it can be used as a tactic.

While we have seen a dozen maybe in the lower range, most are $120 to $140 which is great info to sway someone that the restrictions are not a big deal...which, personally I don’t think they are considering I am under contract to buy resale at it right now.

 

[Bjaiken77]

I can’t say why DVD made the choices that they did, but I definitely think for those new buyers who want RIV, will see the price difference now as minimum that it could lead them to it,

RIV gives someone 16 extra years too. For younger buyers, this should be seen as a positive.

And, if the DVC guides are paying attention to resale, it’s not doom and gloom like we all thought with its sale price right now so it can be used as a tactic.

While we have seen a dozen maybe in the lower range, most are $120 to $140 which is great info to sway someone that the restrictions are not a big deal...which, personally I don’t think they are considering I am under contract to buy resale at it right now.

You described my fiancé and I perfectly. We are somewhat younger and going to be with DVC for the long haul. We love RIV and felt like it was a good shot for us to get our blue card at a good price with incentives. Everything just fell into place.

 

[brazzledazzler]

I can’t say why DVD made the choices that they did, but I definitely think for those new buyers who want RIV, will see the price difference now as minimum that it could lead them to it,

RIV gives someone 16 extra years too. For younger buyers, this should be seen as a positive.

And, if the DVC guides are paying attention to resale, it’s not doom and gloom like we all thought with its sale price right now so it can be used as a tactic.

While we have seen a dozen maybe in the lower range, most are $120 to $140 which is great info to sway someone that the restrictions are not a big deal...which, personally I don’t think they are considering I am under contract to buy resale at it right now.

For all these reasons (and incentives), my husband and I are considering RIV now. Before we were set on CCV, but these incentives are food for thought.

We are heading to WDW this weekend to tour RIV and CCV to make a decision. Incentives change on 8/4, so, we want to be positive about this big decision.

 

[princesscinderella]

For all these reasons (and incentives), my husband and I are considering RIV now. Before we were set on CCV, but these incentives are food for thought.

We are heading to WDW this weekend to tour RIV and CCV to make a decision. Incentives change on 8/4, so, we want to be positive about this big decision.

The rooms at RIV are much nicer and larger than CCV that I bet you go with RIV.

 

[RoseGold]

RIV has a major issue the O14 don't: the resale restrictions. You need to be informed about these restrictions before you make a choice.

RIV has millions of unsold points, there is no rush. Don't make a rush five figure decision on a few hundred bucks worth of sale.

 

[sethschroeder]

RIV has a major issue the O14 don't

Every year 2042 draws closer they also are going to lose some flexibility unless you want to stay at SSR and OKW maybe AKV.

Which by the time someone is going to likely sell it that expiration date is a couple years our or past.

RIV long term will hold value based on it being a really nice resort with quick access to two parks possibly DS long term.

RIVs basement isn't much different than SSR.

 

[Sandisw]

Every year 2042 draws closer they also are going to lose some flexibility unless you want to stay at SSR and OKW maybe AKV.

Which by the time someone is going to likely sell it that expiration date is a couple years our or past.

RIV long term will hold value based on it being a really nice resort with quick access to two parks possibly DS long term.

I agree and I think the resale value so far is holding up far better than predicated, Heck. I am paying $152/point.

And, I don’t think I am unique in that the benefits and beauty of the resort far outweighs any potential loss down the road,

Having just stayed again a few weeks ago and having been able to experience the Skyliner to HS, it was so nice and quick. Since it isn’t my first choice park, we don’t go at open, but traveling there an hour into opening was quick and easy, Going back after dinner was nice and being someone who enjoys the relaxed touring, this option has now brought HS back into a resort I will visit more often!

 

[brazzledazzler]

The rooms at RIV are much nicer and larger than CCV that I bet you go with RIV.

Room size is part of the pros….

 

[princesscinderella]

Room size is part of the pros….

The point chart is higher but it’s a better balance of rooms as it doesn’t have the point heavy cabins. Standard view is awesome too as you can see the Epcot fireworks.

 

[KAngela]

I don't want to be "that math guy," but the reality is that I am, so let's talk about Riviera's problem of Points Devaluation.

Riviera Resort has between 341 and 440 rooms for DVC, depending on how many of them are used as 2 BR vs lockoffs. It has a total value of between 6.75 and 7.2 million points. Compare this to AKV, which sits between 458 and 753 rooms (again depending on LO) and a total points value of 7.3 to 7.8 million points. So your average room at RIV holds 16 to 19,000 points, whereas your average AKV room holds 10 to 15,000 points (always depending on whether it's two rooms or one). That's a 25 to 50% gap in points of the room itself, which is reflected in points charts but not in points purchase cost either resale or direct.

And so on and so forth compared to the others as well. Across every category of room, Riviera is almost always the most expensive on a per-night basis, because the rooms hold so many points, usually by a lot. A standard-view DS at Riviera costs 19.1 per night average, higher than any other standard DS except Aulani (and higher than a DS ocean view in Vero Beach or Savannah View in AKV). It gets worse as you pile on rooms and views; for example RIV 1 BR with a park view is higher per-night than AKV 2-BR Savannah view; its 3-BR standard view is comparable to the BLT 3-BR theme park view.

So what I'm saying is, for the same room in RIV, anticipate paying more points, so you should expect to have to buy more points. So they should offer great deals, because you're buying points with a lower "exchange rate" compared to other resorts. In some ways, that makes the Riviera resale restrictions protective for previous resale owners, as contracts will probably tend be larger on average to account for higher points need when purchasing RIV. If you could use those RIV resale points on the OG 14 resorts then legacy resale owners would get crowded out by higher-point RIV resale owners. (I confess this is a highly charitable reason for these restrictions that likely bears no resemblance to reality).

Of course DVC is not a perfect economic system, and much of the above is simple math that leaves out some nuance, but it pretty cleanly illustrates the Points Devaluation problem of RIV. And your eyes are probably crossed by now, so we'll just stop it here.

Suffice to say, though, I have given this matter quite a bit of thought.

 

[brazzledazzler]

RIV has a major issue the O14 don't: the resale restrictions. You need to be informed about these restrictions before you make a choice.

RIV has millions of unsold points, there is no rush. Don't make a rush five figure decision on a few hundred bucks worth of sale.

I’m familiar with the restrictions…but we have very young children (2 and 2 months) and aren’t going into the notion of DVC to sell in the next 20 years.

I’m not happy about the resell restrictions, but I imagine RIV is not the last resort that will have them. I suspect this will be the new norm for all future DVC resorts.

In the end, DVC not an investment but a timeshare.

The changes in 2042 are a big factor into why we want to buy our first contract direct. So many pros and cons between RIV and CCV.

 

[sethschroeder]

So your average room at RIV holds 16 to 19,000 points, whereas your average AKV room holds 10 to 15,000 points

Riviera is a nicer resort with a Skyliner to use to two different parks including the park that always has the festivals and a ton of food options.

So they should offer great deals, because you're buying points with a lower "exchange rate" compared to other resorts.

Except RIV is below VGF/Poly and in the ballpark of BLT.

When comparing to AKV I can get that at 7 months most of the time so my points go just as far. Same for those with SSR and OKW points.

Flip side you will never likely get a standard view or tower studio without owning there and unlike Value or Club level it's something more plausible to get.

I will say my direct points from RIV I got for $155/point so even as sleep around its pretty good as direct points but I will normally stay at RIV is the plan.

 

[brazzledazzler]

The point chart is higher but it’s a better balance of rooms as it doesn’t have the point heavy cabins. Standard view is awesome too as you can see the Epcot fireworks.

The point chart is definitely not fantastic, but we’re ok with staying at other resorts or OKW or SSR occasionally.

A major con of CCV is the point distribution due to cabins. We are looking for studios mostly (just like everyone else) and I don’t want to be unable to book at our home resort.

I really need to see RIV and get a feel for the ambiance. We love the feel of CCV, but there is a lot to consider!

The views from RIV look outstanding!

 

[Jelly563]

........And it's still not sold out

 

[princesscinderella]

The point chart is definitely not fantastic, but we’re ok with staying at other resorts or OKW or SSR occasionally.

A major con of CCV is the point distribution due to cabins. We are looking for studios mostly (just like everyone else) and I don’t want to be unable to book at our home resort.

I really need to see RIV and get a feel for the ambiance. We love the feel of CCV, but there is a lot to consider!

The views from RIV look outstanding!

If you like to travel at the same time of year and depending on how many points you want to buy, consider a Fixed week at RIV in a standard studio for a popular time. Even if you don’t use the points as a fixed week I think at RIV it makes it more attractive if you did have to resell it later on. There’s a whole thread about it on the boards and it’s what swayed us into buying a FW at RIV.

 

[Sandisw]

........And it's still not sold out

It’s been for sale just over two years, with a pandemic and closure. Not sure why anyone believes it should be,

 

[Sandisw]

I don't want to be "that math guy," but the reality is that I am, so let's talk about Riviera's problem of Points Devaluation.

Riviera Resort has between 341 and 440 rooms for DVC, depending on how many of them are used as 2 BR vs lockoffs. It has a total value of between 6.75 and 7.2 million points. Compare this to AKV, which sits between 458 and 753 rooms (again depending on LO) and a total points value of 7.3 to 7.8 million points. So your average room at RIV holds 16 to 19,000 points, whereas your average AKV room holds 10 to 15,000 points (always depending on whether it's two rooms or one). That's a 25 to 50% gap in points of the room itself, which is reflected in points charts but not in points purchase cost either resale or direct.

And so on and so forth compared to the others as well. Across every category of room, Riviera is almost always the most expensive on a per-night basis, because the rooms hold so many points, usually by a lot. A standard-view DS at Riviera costs 19.1 per night average, higher than any other standard DS except Aulani (and higher than a DS ocean view in Vero Beach or Savannah View in AKV). It gets worse as you pile on rooms and views; for example RIV 1 BR with a park view is higher per-night than AKV 2-BR Savannah view; its 3-BR standard view is comparable to the BLT 3-BR theme park view.

So what I'm saying is, for the same room in RIV, anticipate paying more points, so you should expect to have to buy more points. So they should offer great deals, because you're buying points with a lower "exchange rate" compared to other resorts. In some ways, that makes the Riviera resale restrictions protective for previous resale owners, as contracts will probably tend be larger on average to account for higher points need when purchasing RIV. If you could use those RIV resale points on the OG 14 resorts then legacy resale owners would get crowded out by higher-point RIV resale owners. (I confess this is a highly charitable reason for these restrictions that likely bears no resemblance to reality).

Of course DVC is not a perfect economic system, and much of the above is simple math that leaves out some nuance, but it pretty cleanly illustrates the Points Devaluation problem of RIV. And your eyes are probably crossed by now, so we'll just stop it here.

Suffice to say, though, I have given this matter quite a bit of thought.

Lots of great info for anyone who doesn’t have a preference for where they want to stay.

But, no matter what analysis is done, IMO, it still comes down to spending your money…and DVC is a lot of $$$…on the place you want to be at,

Saving thousands now and staying at resorts that stretch points is great if you will be happy. But, if you won’t be, it’s not worth it. I think this includes RIV and why people are buying..,once they see and experience the resort, many have decided it’s worth it!

 

[KAngela]

Except RIV is below VGF/Poly and in the ballpark of BLT.

That's a fair point, it is. I saw it was comparable to BLT, and forgot all about Poly being a thing and never even checked VGF. So maybe it's not as excessive as I think it is.

As for which one's nicer, it's a whole other argument!

 

[brazzledazzler]

If you like to travel at the same time of year and depending on how many points you want to buy, consider a Fixed week at RIV in a standard studio for a popular time. Even if you don’t use the points as a fixed week I think at RIV it makes it more attractive if you did have to resell it later on. There’s a whole thread about it on the boards and it’s what swayed us into buying a FW at RIV.

I was considering a FW (since it would hold better resell value), but we don't travel just 1x a year. We live 2 hours away, so we do a lot of small trips to Disney (2-4 nights) rather than week-long trips.

I will go search the thread about buying a FW at RIV though since you mentioned it. Thanks for the tip!