Direct Pricing- Riviera brilliance

[The Jackal]

On average OKW has the largest rooms, yes RIV has a larger studio and GV, but OKW has the largest 1 and 2 bedrooms. And RIV studios and GV’s aren’t that much larger than OKW. OKW GV has 4 full baths too. OKW isn’t as elegant, but it is wayyyyyy less points.

 

[havoc315]

I look forward to seeing one of the actual RIV studios sometime as the models certainly weren't that large at the preview center. I was staying at VGF at the time and would have made them out to be very close to the same size. And if the 1BR's were built the same it left a bunch of open space in the living area and a much smaller bedroom than say, VGF.

Easy to compare:
Studio at RIV SQ: 423sf
Studio at GFV: 374 sf

And easy to break up the 1 bedroom, by comparing with a 2BR:

1 BR:
RIV: 813
GFV: 844

2 BR: Which is the same living room as a 1 BR, plus a studio, plus a Master Bedroom:
RIV: 1246
GFV: 1232

It seems the opposite -- GFV put a lot of extra space into the living room, while RIV concentrated on bigger bedrooms

At GFV, the 2nd bedroom in a 2BR, would be 388 SF, At RIV, the 2nd bedroom would be 433 sf

 

[EYL]

If you're planning on purchasing points close to the amount needed for a fixed week, it's not really costing you anything to get the fixed week. For example, if you were thinking of getting 250 points, you could get a FW for a standard view 1 BR for weeks 1-3, 36-38, or 48. You're still paying the same amount per point for the 250 points. The additional "cost" is that if you actually use the FW, you'd potentially be using 10% more points to book than if you didn't (as pointed out above, it's possible the FW would actually be less depending on how the charts change). The FW gets booked outside of 11 months. You can cancel it every year. You can use it 1/2/50 times. You could get a FW for a difficult to get reservation and rent it out as a backup plan for years you don't use the points.

If the FW points are in line with what you're planning, the only downsides I see are 1) you would need to cancel the FW every year if you don't want to use it, which shouldn't really be an issue and 2) if you ever sold the contract, I think there's still confusion over how it actually works, which could turn someone off from buying. On the flipside, the FW option could result in a higher resale value, especially if it's a popular week.

While fixed weeks may retain resale value, my worry is can DVC change things down the line that may take away the benefits of it. I know that the FW itself is deeded, but can they ever bar you from cancelling and using the points for another week? Or worst, a new restriction for resale buyers in that fixed weeks must be used for that week only...

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Easy to compare:
Studio at RIV SQ: 423sf
Studio at GFV: 374 sf

And easy to break up the 1 bedroom, by comparing with a 2BR:

1 BR:
RIV: 813
GFV: 844

2 BR: Which is the same living room as a 1 BR, plus a studio, plus a Master Bedroom:
RIV: 1246
GFV: 1232

It seems the opposite -- GFV put a lot of extra space into the living room, while RIV concentrated on bigger bedrooms

At GFV, the 2nd bedroom in a 2BR, would be 388 SF, At RIV, the 2nd bedroom would be 433 sf

I've seen the numbers but I was just mentioning I'll have to see them at the resort. Sq footage has some importance but it's also about how it's used. As I said the model studio was nothing like that difference in size and the 1BR had a much smaller master area than VGF. I had just been in a VGF studio and didn't mention but had just moved into a 2BR so the comparisons were right there day of. The layout at VGF is very different so the living area size could be comparable but Riviera just had a lot of open space in the living area that was doing nothing other than being open.

 

[Jelly563]

That's like Poly, if they didn't waste so much space in the bathroom they would feel very roomy

 

[sethschroeder]

Is that really saying much that is good though?

Well I think it will sell for a bunch more than SSR I am just saying the basement. It's not like it's $50.

As Riviera ages it will become like all the other existing resorts.

So above OKW, SSR, BRV and AKV. Plus likely above all the 2042 resorts as well.

RIV is still attached to the parks and has the Skyliner plus its the only long term option for Epcot.

The dropping of 2042 resorts wouldn't concern me as there's still going to be a lot more for resale buyers at the pre-Riviera to book than Riviera and later.

By 2042 you will have about 15-25% of RIV turned over to resale. Flip side why will resale owners in MK resorts move? None of the o14 will be next to a park plus you will have AUL resale buyers trying to get to WDW as well.

 

[DVCsloth]

I think where CCV has quite an advantage in the point charts because they don't have any Preferred view rooms. I don't think Riviera is easy to book Standard rooms during the busy DVC times. So even though the initial buy in is less expensive it could possibly cost more. CCV has a pretty decent point chart and part of the trade off for having the old BRV points was the addition of the cabins.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Well I think it will sell for a bunch more than SSR I am just saying the basement. It's not like it's $50.



So above OKW, SSR, BRV and AKV. Plus likely above all the 2042 resorts as well.

RIV is still attached to the parks and has the Skyliner plus its the only long term option for Epcot.



By 2042 you will have about 15-25% of RIV turned over to resale. Flip side why will resale owners in MK resorts move? None of the o14 will be next to a park plus you will have AUL resale buyers trying to get to WDW as well.

Riviera is attached to the parks? In no way that is typically stated for any other resorts.

MK owners will move for the same reason they always have. 1 - DVC sells the resort they have in current sales to new buyers who often have done no homework. It's the reason one can book BCV at 7 months or really any other resort because they never planned on staying only at their home resort or may not even care for it much at all and planned to always do what the guides said they could - book elsewhere at 7 months. 2 - sometimes people just want to use less points. 3 - sometimes people want to stay other places. 4 - they plan something more last minute outside of the home resort window. None of this is new or unique and will continue as it's always done.

And you're using todays resorts as being static going forward. There was a time not long ago that a Epcot resort towards the front of Epcot was under consideration. BCV and BWV won't just sit around as empty space. It's still 21 years away but at the moment I'd hypothesize they won't go into Disney hotel inventory either. If DVC is still ticking along then I think it's likely at least one will get recycled. Probably BWV with BCV having the best chance to head into Disney hotels. If WDW is even still a thing.

 

[sethschroeder]

but can they ever bar you from cancelling and using the points for another week?

It states you have the right to not the requirement of. So I don't see a way they cant allow you to just take the points or the fixed week on any given year.

 

[sethschroeder]

I think where CCV has quite an advantage in the point charts because they don't have any Preferred view rooms. I don't think Riviera is easy to book Standard rooms during the busy DVC times. So even though the initial buy in is less expensive it could possibly cost more. CCV has a pretty decent point chart and part of the trade off for having the old BRV points was the addition of the cabins.

I don't have the numbers in front of me but it's like 40% of the points sunk in cabins. Riviera doesn't have that and if they did point charts would be very similar. I had a breakdown in another thread I created.

I will pay slightly extra to not deal with cabins.

EDIT: Checked its 32/33% of the points are dedicated to the Cabins and something a large majority of CCV owners will never touch.

 

[sethschroeder]

Riviera is attached to the parks? In no way that is typically stated for any other resorts

Has the Skyliner so yes.

Do you not consider CCV and BRV attached to MK or how about in the past VGF or Poly?

Long term if Disney plans on expanding the Skyliner they will start running the Skyliner in bad weather which it is designed for just Disney being more cautious currently.

MK owners will move for the same reason they always have. 1 - DVC sells the resort they have in current sales to new buyers who often have done no homework. It's the reason one can book BCV at 7 months or really any other resort. 2 - sometimes people just want to use less points. 3 - sometimes people want to stay other places. 4 - they plan something more last minute outside of the home resort window. None of this is new or unique and will continue as it's always done.

Which is fine doesn't change zero option for those owners to stay around Epcot and thus less movement.

Is someone from CCV or VGF switching at 7 months to stay at SSR or OKW or AKV? Less likely than someone taking a split stay and grabbing 2-3 nights at BWV or BCV if it's available even in a 1BR.

It will impact things losing 3 park attached resorts.

 

[kandlsutton]

The layout at VGF is very different so the living area size could be comparable but Riviera just had a lot of open space in the living area that was doing nothing other than being open.

RIV has the small drop down bed under the TV in the living area. Not sure whether VGF does. Wouldn’t that impact the walking area when that bed is down?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

RIV has the small drop down bed under the TV in the living area. Not sure whether VGF does. Wouldn’t that impact the walking area when that bed is down?

VGF has the small murphy bed under the TV in the 1 and 2BR's too. I was unable to see it down in the Riviera model as it was broken somehow and the guide was scared to try and open it so I got no feel of how much room it took up.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Has the Skyliner so yes.

Do you not consider CCV and BRV attached to MK or how about in the past VGF or Poly?

Long term if Disney plans on expanding the Skyliner they will start running the Skyliner in bad weather which it is designed for just Disney being more cautious currently.



Which is fine doesn't change zero option for those owners to stay around Epcot and thus less movement.

Is someone from CCV or VGF switching at 7 months to stay at SSR or OKW or AKV? Less likely than someone taking a split stay and grabbing 2-3 nights at BWV or BCV if it's available even in a 1BR.

It will impact things losing 3 park attached resorts.

No, I don't consider any of those attached. If you can walk somewhere then yes. If you cannot walk then no because you rely on transportation and any and all transportation will have it's glitches. Now GF/VGF has the walking path which I guess makes it attached and some would argue Poly although that's too far IMO for most to consider walking to the park and then spending all day walking around the parks.

And yes, I think owners at any resorts can end up at any other resort. Always have. Always will. I'll also point out again that things will not be so static as to state the options will be limited. There will be those who still own at MK resorts who are eligible to trade into any new and might want to try those resorts out and then the circle of trades opens up.

 

[havoc315]

Is that really saying much that is good though? SSR cost most buyers around $100/pt less than Riviera and is 15 years older. And the basement on them is about the same? That doesn't really seem like a good thing.

As Riviera ages it will become like all the other existing resorts. Start look a teensy bit dated compared to anything new. Maybe not have the best restaurants anymore etc. etc and so that comparison of shiny new will fade to resemble all the others. Then it will get down to the basics when resale buyers are shopping and the resale restrictions will matter more than for the few buying resale now. We still have a ways to go to see how the resale restrictions play out. The dropping of 2042 resorts wouldn't concern me as there's still going to be a lot more for resale buyers at the pre-Riviera to book than Riviera and later.

2042ish:
Resale buyers:
MK area: BLT, Poly, GFV, CCV
Epcot area: None
Other WDW: SSR, OKW, AKV
Other: GC, AUL

so just those 9. In fact, if you want re-sale in the Epcot area that will last beyond 2042, Riv is the ONLY option. That will really lift the re-sale value of RIV as we get closer to the 2030’s.

But direct will likely get double the number of resorts as re-sale. Basically, re-sale at original resorts will still be okay for those that love MK resorts. It will stink for those that like the Epcot area or who like using resorts away from WDW.

 

[Yinn]

RIV gives someone 16 extra years too. For younger buyers, this should be seen as a positive.

As a younger buyer I'd like to understand this a bit more.

I get the younger buyer perspective, I get more use out of it. But do the older buyers see the extra time as a negative? Or is it more of a neutral for older buyers?

 

[sethschroeder]

No, I don't consider any of those attached. If you can walk somewhere then yes. If you cannot walk then no because you rely on transportation and any and all transportation will have it's glitches. Now GF/VGF has the walking path which I guess makes it attached and some would argue Poly although that's too far IMO for most to consider walking to the park and then spending all day walking around the parks.

Then whatever category you place them in its above OKW/SSR/AKV for most people.

I get the younger buyer perspective, I get more use out of it. But do the older buyers see the extra time as a negative? Or is it more of a neutral for older buyers?

I see both types of people on this forum for older members. Some like the idea of leaving it for their kids while others want it expiring as to not leave that to kids as it could put a burden on them with the MFs.

 

[sethschroeder]

2042ish:
Resale buyers:
MK area: BLT, Poly, GFV, CCV
Epcot area: None
Other WDW: SSR, OKW, AKV
Other: GC, AUL

so just those 9. In fact, if you want re-sale in the Epcot area that will last beyond 2042, Riv is the ONLY option. That will really lift the re-sale value of RIV as we get closer to the 2030’s.

But direct will likely get double the number of resorts as re-sale. Basically, re-sale at original resorts will still be okay for those that love MK resorts. It will stink for those that like the Epcot area or who like using resorts away from WDW.

Just for reference for those in the resale group of O14, I have outlined previously the change in both room totals and points as well as rooms/points lost from which areas of WDW.

You are losing a significant percentage of bookable rooms in the most sought after location within DVC (Epcot/MK area).

For total rooms just at WDW:
4679 total rooms in the resorts without restrictions
25% at MK
17% at Epcot
13% at AK
44% at SSR/OKW

In 2042:
20% of rooms will expire (all near MK/Epcot)
28% of rooms by MK
0% of rooms by Epcot
16% of rooms by AK
56% of rooms at SSR/OKW
14% loss of rooms by MK/Epcot (SSR/OKW rooms increase by 27% of total pool of rooms)


There are currently 25,485,757 points in resorts next to MK or EPCOT without resale restrictions:
39% of points pool that are next to MK/EPCOT will expire
100% of points pool that are next to EPCOT will expire in 2042
17% of points pool that are next to MK will expire in 2042

Currently there are 70,230,462 points in resorts without resale restrictions:
25% of points are next to MK
11% of points are next to Epcot
11% of points are next to AK
31% of points are OKW/SSR

In 2042 there will be 57,367,132 points left in resorts without resale restrictions:
23% of points will be next to MK
0% of points will be next to Epcot
13% of points will be next to AK
38% of points will be OKW/SSR
13% loss of points by MK/EPCOT

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

2042ish:
Resale buyers:
MK area: BLT, Poly, GFV, CCV
Epcot area: None
Other WDW: SSR, OKW, AKV
Other: GC, AUL

so just those 9. In fact, if you want re-sale in the Epcot area that will last beyond 2042, Riv is the ONLY option. That will really lift the re-sale value of RIV as we get closer to the 2030’s.

But direct will likely get double the number of resorts as re-sale. Basically, re-sale at original resorts will still be okay for those that love MK resorts. It will stink for those that like the Epcot area or who like using resorts away from WDW.

I'm also thinking that maybe when a person bought in does factor quite a bit in where they land with this concern. Maybe it's what age I'll be in 2042 but I do consider what I'd think if the 2042's were gone tomorrow. When I bought there were only 8 total DVC resorts and 2 of them were offsite and mostly a non-factor to me. Doubling hasn't necessarily made DVC extra better but it's fine. So, six onsite at Disney World when I bought. I like all the parks. I like all DVC resorts although certainly have ones I favor more and not all of them are locations you can walk to a park. So having 9 total to choose from and 7 of those that are park resorts? It's more than when I bought so yes, that must be good to me if 8 and 6 were numbers good enough for me to buy in the first place. In addition there seems to be a number here indicating they're only going to stay where they buy anyway so it would seem there's another subset that won't actually care if it's 15, 9 or 1.

If I did one trip a year to only the non-restricted WDW resorts after 2042 it still could be 7 years for 7 different resorts before I'd circle back for a repeat. That fits right into the refurb schedule so I could get a nicely redone room every time.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Then whatever category you place them in its above OKW/SSR/AKV for most people.



I see both types of people on this forum for older members. Some like the idea of leaving it for their kids while others want it expiring as to not leave that to kids as it could put a burden on them with the MFs.

Are you trying to get everyone to love only Riviera to make it more difficult for yourself to book it?

Every resort has avid fans who stay at them more than other places. I'm good with any of those three you list and one is right at the top of the heap although my heap is more an upside down pyramid with lots at the top.