Delta -- discrimination against a black female doctor inflight

See, and I've had the exact opposite experience.

I came very close to passing out at a local fast food joint.

A friend called 911. Ambulance came. Yes, they could get my blood pressure, temp and even my blood sugar.

But they knew nothing about my medications. Or medical conditions.

"Why do you take this(medication)?" "Well, as I've said, I've had a hysterectomy, and that is a hormone." "So, you need to take this?" "Um, yes, my doctor gave it to me." To say nothing of the fact that I've been taking it for a year and half. And even if there is some rare side effect, don't you think the doctor should be the one to question or change my medications?

And then, "Oh, you have celiac. Maybe that is it"

At that point, I wanted so say, "Oh my God, please just get me to someone that has a clue."

But no, they had to have a discussion about what I took. Um, guys, I've been on these for months; some for years, you aren't going to come to some quick conclusion in the next 5 minutes. Maybe instead you could get me to an actual doctor.

Wait, so you have an issue with them not knowing your medications or your medical conditions, and then you have an issue when they ask questions about them?
It sounds like you should travel wit your own personal team of doctors so you know you are getting the proper treatment for yourself.
 
She's a resident. She's training to become an attending OB GYN physician. Residents are young but they are most definitely physicians, just not an attending in their specialty yet.
 
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In my workplace it's a running joke that we would rather have the first responders (me and others in my department) come and help us than the "Dr." because we have a more generalized training than specialists who don't do trauma or emergency work all that often. I was on a flight back in 2011 and they called for medical help. I volunteered and started doing my proper procedures when they brought a neurologist back to take over. I realized she had no idea what she was doing when she use the BP cuff wrong and couldn't check the pulse correctly.

Now I'm not saying she wasn't qualified but when you don't have "hands on" for a certain period of time you lose the skills. I have to take my full courses over again every two years in order to stay certified.

See, and I've had the exact opposite experience.

I came very close to passing out at a local fast food joint.

A friend called 911. Ambulance came. Yes, they could get my blood pressure, temp and even my blood sugar.

But they knew nothing about my medications. Or medical conditions.

"Why do you take this(medication)?" "Well, as I've said, I've had a hysterectomy, and that is a hormone." "So, you need to take this?" "Um, yes, my doctor gave it to me." To say nothing of the fact that I've been taking it for a year and half. And even if there is some rare side effect, don't you think the doctor should be the one to question or change my medications?

And then, "Oh, you have celiac. Maybe that is it"

At that point, I wanted so say, "Oh my God, please just get me to someone that has a clue."

But no, they had to have a discussion about what I took. Um, guys, I've been on these for months; some for years, you aren't going to come to some quick conclusion in the next 5 minutes. Maybe instead you could get me to an actual doctor.
These are good examples of people acting within, or out of, their specialities.

In the first example, sure, I'm sort of not surprised a neurologist might not know how to use a blood pressure cuff - for a few reasons. She might not use one regularly in her practice, maybe the medical assistants generally obtain vital signs, or it might be different than the one used on the flight, or digital, etc. (One of the doctors in one the articles mentioned she'd wished there were digital BP cuffs on the plane because it was difficult to hear sounds given the airplane noise and a thready pulse, etc. but apparently they use the old style ones, maybe it's changed since they supposedly revamped FAA required supplies around 2013, idk. But you get the idea.) Don't you agree, though, that the neurologist would be super helpful to have around if the "customer" was suffering from dizziness, or having a seizure, etc?

I think that's what we've sort of been saying, that in an inflight emergency, information is typically solicited to see who the most qualified responders are. Does it happen every single time? Probably not, but we never see or hear every detail about the actual situation; we only hear bits and pieces from others' perspectives and memories of the events later on...

To the second example, sure, I can understand why those questions would seem annoying and why you'd want to be seen by a doctor asap, but I think that EMTs/paramedics are usually very good at what they do and an important part of the health care team in emergencies outside of the hospital. The information they solicit can help guide quick treatment once a patient gets to the hospital (though, of course, it has to be verified). I think that in an inflight emergency, it would be very helpful to have one of them there, space considerations notwithstanding. Again, in one of the articles written by a physician, the doctor tried several times to insert an IV and was unable to; was wishing there was a nurse there as nurses usually do that where he or she works, etc. And in the plane kit I believer there are only two IV catheter needles, IIR. That's not much if you're unsuccessful on two tries. (And IIR in the example the customer was morbidly obese with an extremely low BP, and likely dehydrated, which makes him a very difficult stick.) That doctor then had to direct preparation of an oral solution with sugar and water that a family member had to have the barely-conscious customer sip every five minutes to equal what an IV solution might be. That was a very good recommendation by the physician, I thought, although I wouldn't want to be the "patient" in that situation who was probably not feeling well and being made to continuously drink what was most likely an unappetizing drink throughout the flight. :crazy2: An IV most certainly would've been preferable.

The "team approach" works great in a hospital, but on an airplane, unfortunately, it's not always possible to have that many people around given that space is so tight. That's why, I guess, they primarily stick with one or two people, and use ground medical advice in situations that require more. I would think, that if it was a complex situation, that you would want an MD, if possible, who, while may not be experienced in certain things, surely has advanced medical knowledge. In the case in question, there were three MDs to choose from. Why they chose a certain one may have been based on race, gender, appearance, etc., OR it may have been based on specialty or ability to produce "credentials" in the moment, etc. We really don't know. I do think that the FA should NOT have called ANYONE "Sweetie" because it's condescending, and perhaps started things off on a bad note, but again, things can get tense in a life threatening emergency (which I'd guess it was if they solicited help) and a lot of that may be coloring what the public has heard about the situation. I was taught to always refer to people by their names, and never as "honey" or "sweetie" and I don't, nor do I like it when people call me that, either. I would've been annoyed, too.
 

I'm pretty sure that all residents have to go through various rotations that include internal and emergency medicine. She's definitely licensed, but with a training permit.

http://reg.tmb.state.tx.us/OnLineVe...D_NUM=584807&Type=BP&LicensePermit=BP10051311

We got incredibly lucky to encounter a resident, versus a doctor, when my son cut the top of his thumb off. You see, my son was a teenager and the protocol for his kind of injury was to simply shorten the thumb (to speed healing, and also apparently because reattachment doesn't usually take in "adults"). That's what the doctor attending wanted to do. But, unbeknownst to the ER doc, a nurse had already sent up a call to the plastic surgery department. So, who should appear, but a plastic surgery resident!

He looked like he was 18 years old. But, he was REALLY keen for a chance to try sewing the top of my son's thumb back on. The ER doc seemed irritated. They went out in the hall and there was some sort of discussion which I didn't understand. Then the ER doc came back in and said to me, "What do you want to do?"

I turned to my son and said, "What do you want to do?"

He said, "I want them to sew it back on!"

So the ER doc left, and the resident took over. And... promptly threw the tip of my son's thumb in the garbage, along with the old bandages. :laughing: But, fortunately, I'd wrapped it very well, so we fished it out again. He tacked it on with neat little stitches, bandaged my boy up, and sent us home with an appointment to see the senior plastic surgeon.

Over the next few weeks, as my son's thumb healed, the plastic surgeon became increasingly impressed. He told my son he was his "star patient". Asked questions about who'd done such neat work (we didn't mention him accidentally tossing the thumb piece). And said that he'd need to reconsider the age guidelines regarding reattachment versus shortening the digit.

Today my son has a completely normal looking thumb. It's sensitive to cold, and gets a bit painful in the winter, but otherwise it's perfect. You almost can't see the scar. And it's all thanks to a resident!
 
I'm pretty sure that all residents have to go through various rotations that include internal and emergency medicine. She's definitely licensed, but with a training permit.

http://reg.tmb.state.tx.us/OnLineVe...D_NUM=584807&Type=BP&LicensePermit=BP10051311

I can't see your link, but just to respond generally. They do go through different rotations, but they may be as short as two weeks to thirty days each. And generally they can't wait to get back to their specialty, lol. Although I will say, I worked with an OB/GYN resident a few weeks ago (on a medical rotation) who was among the most thorough residents I've ever seen. (But I've had the opposite experience, too. We do cut some slack because we know that being out of a specialty isn't always easy or comfortable.) In those situations, nurses are invaluable to help guide the care of the speciality, along with more senior residents and fellows, etc.
 
We got incredibly lucky to encounter a resident, versus a doctor, when my son cut the top of his thumb off. You see, my son was a teenager and the protocol for his kind of injury was to simply shorten the thumb (to speed healing, and also apparently because reattachment doesn't usually take in "adults"). That's what the doctor attending wanted to do. But, unbeknownst to the ER doc, a nurse had already sent up a call to the plastic surgery department. So, who should appear, but a plastic surgery resident!

He looked like he was 18 years old. But, he was REALLY keen for a chance to try sewing the top of my son's thumb back on. The ER doc seemed irritated. They went out in the hall and there was some sort of discussion which I didn't understand. Then the ER doc came back in and said to me, "What do you want to do?"

I turned to my son and said, "What do you want to do?"

He said, "I want them to sew it back on!"

So the ER doc left, and the resident took over. And... promptly threw the tip of my son's thumb in the garbage, along with the old bandages. :laughing: But, fortunately, I'd wrapped it very well, so we fished it out again. He tacked it on with neat little stitches, bandaged my boy up, and sent us home with an appointment to see the senior plastic surgeon.

Over the next few weeks, as my son's thumb healed, the plastic surgeon became increasingly impressed. He told my son he was his "star patient". Asked questions about who'd done such neat work (we didn't mention him accidentally tossing the thumb piece). And said that he'd need to reconsider the age guidelines regarding reattachment versus shortening the digit.

Today my son has a completely normal looking thumb. It's sensitive to cold, and gets a bit painful in the winter, but otherwise it's perfect. You almost can't see the scar. And it's all thanks to a resident!
Nice story! I have seen some amazing things from residents, as well. (And some I worked with as interns are now world authorites on certain things!) But I do value wisdom and experience, too. That's why I think it's nice to have both. Your story could've been very different if your son became ill from a blackened attachment that didn't take, for instance. I've seen weird things like that happen.
 
See, and I've had the exact opposite experience.

I came very close to passing out at a local fast food joint.

A friend called 911. Ambulance came. Yes, they could get my blood pressure, temp and even my blood sugar.

But they knew nothing about my medications. Or medical conditions.

"Why do you take this(medication)?" "Well, as I've said, I've had a hysterectomy, and that is a hormone." "So, you need to take this?" "Um, yes, my doctor gave it to me." To say nothing of the fact that I've been taking it for a year and half. And even if there is some rare side effect, don't you think the doctor should be the one to question or change my medications?

And then, "Oh, you have celiac. Maybe that is it"

At that point, I wanted so say, "Oh my God, please just get me to someone that has a clue."

But no, they had to have a discussion about what I took. Um, guys, I've been on these for months; some for years, you aren't going to come to some quick conclusion in the next 5 minutes. Maybe instead you could get me to an actual doctor.

You certainly could have run into just crappy EMTs, but most likely they weren't asking you about medication in an effort to diagnose you. They DO need to know all of the medication you're on and why you take it. And no, EMTs don't know all the different medications out there in the world, which is why they do specifically ask you why you're taking it (plus, of course, the same medicine can be used for many different things). They need to ask you as part of gathering your medical history, which is both critical to their decision making in the moment and also critical info for the initial intake once you do get to the hospital. They are trying to save time (and hence save lives) by getting you to the *right place* with the *right information* available. Absolutely some times they have no clue what a given medication is or what a given condition is - their job isn't to diagnose or treat. Their job is to make sure you are stable (or get you stable if needed and possible) and to get you to medical personnel who are as prepared as possible (thanks in part to the info the EMTs provide)
 
I can't see your link, but just to respond generally. They do go through different rotations, but they may be as short as two weeks to thirty days each. And generally they can't wait to get back to their specialty, lol. Although I will say, I worked with an OB/GYN resident a few weeks ago (on a medical rotation) who was among the most thorough residents I've ever seen. (But I've had the opposite experience, too. We do cut some slack because we know that being out of a specialty isn't always easy or comfortable.) In those situations, nurses are invaluable to help guide the care of the speciality, along with more senior residents and fellows, etc.

There's some technical reason for why the direct link doesn't work. I think it has to go through the search page. But the basics are graduate of Meharry Medical College and listed as an OBGYN resident at University of Texas - Houston. Just type the name Cross and her name is near the end of the list.

http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/page/look-up-a-license
 
You certainly could have run into just crappy EMTs, but most likely they weren't asking you about medication in an effort to diagnose you. They DO need to know all of the medication you're on and why you take it. And no, EMTs don't know all the different medications out there in the world, which is why they do specifically ask you why you're taking it (plus, of course, the same medicine can be used for many different things). They need to ask you as part of gathering your medical history, which is both critical to their decision making in the moment and also critical info for the initial intake once you do get to the hospital. They are trying to save time (and hence save lives) by getting you to the *right place* with the *right information* available. Absolutely some times they have no clue what a given medication is or what a given condition is - their job isn't to diagnose or treat. Their job is to make sure you are stable (or get you stable if needed and possible) and to get you to medical personnel who are as prepared as possible (thanks in part to the info the EMTs provide)

All of that would make sense, if I hadn't handed them a list of my medications and medical conditions. Or that they didn't pass any of that information on to the hospital. In fact, I had a hard time telling the hospital what I was taking because the EMTs had taken my list. And hadn't returned it.

I really hope that they were just crappy EMTs. But I feel sorry for anyone that they have to treat.

My point is, yes, I would prefer a doctor. And I would prefer someone who had been around the block. Chances are, they have seen more. Now that doesn't mean I would turn away a brand new doctor. But if I had a choice, I would go with an older, more experienced doctor.
 
All of that would make sense, if I hadn't handed them a list of my medications and medical conditions. Or that they didn't pass any of that information on to the hospital. In fact, I had a hard time telling the hospital what I was taking because the EMTs had taken my list. And hadn't returned it.

I really hope that they were just crappy EMTs. But I feel sorry for anyone that they have to treat.

My point is, yes, I would prefer a doctor. And I would prefer someone who had been around the block. Chances are, they have seen more. Now that doesn't mean I would turn away a brand new doctor. But if I had a choice, I would go with an older, more experienced doctor.

You were in a fast food restaurant, it was an emergency. EMTs are the ones who respond to emergencies.
If you want a doctor then you need to transport yourself to your doctor's office during an emergency otherwise you will have to "deal" with those EMTs.
 
I never said it wasn't wrong. I said people were claiming the Dr. was just using the race card when in fact she wasn't. The original title of the thread even mentioned that it was solely based on race even though the article did not saw as such.

I wasn't trying to insinuate that you thought it wasn't wrong.
 
I noticed she is a D.O. I imagine that was what was on her hospital ID.

I wonder if people here encountered a D.O for themselves or their family and wasn't sure what it was, if one of your questions might be, "Are you a doctor?". Be honest, who here would ask that question?

My PCP was a D.O. so it wouldn't have phased me one bit if she said I'm a doctor here is my hospital badge.
 
My PCP was a D.O. so it wouldn't have phased me one bit if she said I'm a doctor here is my hospital badge.
Well you obviously are familar with a D.O. but I'm wondering, is everyone? I myself have not had many interactions with D.Os. - maybe one or two. (Maybe this is one of those regional things, idk.) I think there are some at my medical practice but I've been going to the same providers long term so I haven't actually been seen by them. I know when I first saw their credentials (on brochures in the office) I researched it a bit, otherwise I probably would not have known. So I am just wondering if most people know what they are.

The doctor in the article mentions puzzled looks and automatically assumes it's because of the color of her skin.

Now I have very little doubt that she has experienced discrimination in many forms in her lifetime and her professional practice. I just wonder if people in her shoes consider there can be other things that cause quizzical looks on people's faces besides skin color, and that all of us get quizzical looks and are disrespected from time to time in some shape or form, etc. I so wish, in the story, that she would have been the leader she says she is and actually taken control of the situation. It sounds like she got so caught up in people giving her dirty looks that she gave up completely instead of trying harder to get to the problem at hand, ie the patient. Perhaps she should have explained that she is a "Family Practice resident, same as an Internal Medicine MD", which, according to her story, she didn't.
 
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I really was struck by what she wrote here:

"Commonly, I’m mistaken for an assistant, janitor, secretary, nurse, student, etc even when I have my white coat on; I’m called these names more frequently than I would like instead of Dr. Denmark."

I've known two women in mixed race marriages. One was white, with a middle Eastern husband. They were biologists. The other was black with a white husband. She was a professor at a university.

When the white woman was out with her dark-skinned child, she noticed that people assumed she was an unmarried teen mom - even ignoring the wedding ring on her hand! Others would compliment her on having adopted a little black or native child.

When the black woman was at the university alone, people assumed she was a student, a janitor, a cafeteria worker... anything but a prof. And when she was with her fair-skinned children, people assumed she was their nanny! It didn't matter how professionally she dressed - the conclusions people came to about her were always the same.

And it wasn't just a matter of "your children don't look like you". Because no one thought the white woman was a nanny and no one thought the black woman had adopted her children.
 
Well you obviously are familar with a D.O. but I'm wondering, is everyone? I myself have not had many interactions with D.Os. - maybe one or two. (Maybe this is one of those regional things, idk.) I think there are some at my medical practice but I've been going to the same providers long term so I haven't actually been seen by them. I know when I first saw their credentials (on brochures in the office) I researched it a bit, otherwise I probably would not have known. So I am just wondering if most people know what they are.

The doctor in the article mentions puzzled looks and automatically assumes it's because of the color of her skin.

Now I have very little doubt that she has experienced discrimination in many forms in her lifetime and her professional practice. I just wonder if people in her shoes consider there can be other things that cause quizzical looks on people's faces besides skin color, and that all of us get quizzical looks and are disrespected from time to time in some shape or form, etc. I so wish, in the story, that she would have been the leader she says she is and actually taken control of the situation. It sounds like she got so caught up in people giving her dirty looks that she gave up completely instead of trying harder to get to the problem at hand, ie the patient. Perhaps she should have explained that she is a "Family Practice resident, same as an Internal Medicine MD", which, according to her story, she didn't.

Why isn't saying "I'm a doctor and have my hospital ID badge" enough? Doctor versus nurse seems like it should always trump in an emergency situation. Yes we all experience discrimination of some sort and some point in our lives but it sounds like even in her own hospital people have assumed she is a janitor! I imagine from years and years of that you just become numb and when you are told to sit down you sit down. I think she pointed to a better issue that in the amount of time the FA were discussing between each other and then with her a supposed emergency wasn't being dealt with. Whatever the time was it seemed like too much in an emergency.
 
Why isn't saying "I'm a doctor and have my hospital ID badge" enough? Doctor versus nurse seems like it should always trump in an emergency situation. Yes we all experience discrimination of some sort and some point in our lives but it sounds like even in her own hospital people have assumed she is a janitor! I imagine from years and years of that you just become numb and when you are told to sit down you sit down. I think she pointed to a better issue that in the amount of time the FA were discussing between each other and then with her a supposed emergency wasn't being dealt with. Whatever the time was it seemed like too much in an emergency.
Exactly, it was too much time. Most doctors I know are very skilled at cutting through the BS and getting to the problem at hand, very succinctly and professionally. Im not sure what the barriers were here but this obviously didn't happen. And I'm not sure you will ALWAYS pick a "doctor" over a nurse. This has been mentioned in many of the articles I've listed - much will depend on competencies. As an example, you could have an MD who has worked in research for 20 years vs. an RN who's been in charge of an ER for 20 years. In this situation, it could be that the RN has the necessary and current competies to act in the situation more so than the MD does. (Thought both will undoubtedly be useful in the situation.) It just depends. People on the ground will be dependent on volunteers being competent in a certain area before going ahead and doing something to someone on a plane. Providers need to know their own competencies as well, so as not to do harm.
 





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