Delta basic economy?

[Gracie09]

You've got several assumptions underlying your reply.Your assuming this is about fares, which it might be, but sometimes it's also just about availability. Maybe the final rules will somehow take fares into account. The legislation changes the situation from a family begging an airline to shuffle people, to the airline having a legal mandate to accommodate a parent and child.

Furthermore, people aren't always flying for pleasure.

Or with advanced notice. I had to fly to my fathers funeral with my 1 year old....I wasn't able to plan that trip in advance.I don't understand. Are you suggesting that an airline would never, under any circumstances, issue a refund? If so, maybe that's the point of the legislation: to Have the airlines' behavior change in some situations.

And I'm not discussing this for my sake, as I usually plan in advance and haven't yet bougt an ticket that didn't allow me to select my seats for my family. But this change in the landscape is out there, and if folks would like it to change, call your congress person or the department of transportation.

No I don't think airlines will refund passengers they ask to move because the contract of carriage does not guarantee a seat just a destination. When dh was almost denied boarding because the two other people in his row were so large they took up all three seats and the airlines solution was to kick my husband off even though he had a family and purchased the tickets before the other people(the seats next to him were empty until weeks before the flight) and the airline provided assistance to the couple boarding and had actual knowledge that they did not fit in their seats - the only offer was a $50 credit and a food voucher for the airport. So I would t hold out hope for a refund because you lost your aisle seat
And if I am making assumptions the same could be said for you. You are assuming fare class and cabin class are different.
And I have planned flights last minute but I would still never get on a plane where I had to rely on the kindness of stranger to sit near my young child. My kid, my responsibility. Period. It could be inconvenient or cost more but I will suck it up and deal because o chose to have a kid not the guy in seat 4b

 

[GrnMtnMan]

You are assuming fare class and cabin class are different.

'Cabin class' is the exact wording used in the legislation. There's no mention of considering fares in the legislation, just a mention of 'no additional cost' and 'additional payment is normally required '.

 

[seashoreCM]

I 'kinda' think that handling parent and child who booked basic economy will remain at the whim of the flight attendants if not otherwise regulated by law. The parent will still be unable to select seats in advance using basic economy and will still be among the last to board and will still have to pay any applicable fees for baggage.

... When dh was almost denied boarding because the two other people in his row were so large they took up all three seats and the airlines solution was to kick my husband off ...

OT: The airline should have asked for volunteers first if the flight was full. I would say that if DH had written to the airline after the flight, including to the higher ups if the first letter did not get results, there is an excellent chance he would have gotten significant and deserved compensation. If the flight was not full, DH would have had to accept any other empty seat.

 

[Gracie09]

I 'kinda' think that handling parent and child who booked basic economy will remain at the whim of the flight attendants if not otherwise regulated by law. The parent will still be unable to select seats in advance using basic economy and will still be among the last to board and will still have to pay any applicable fees for baggage.


OT: The airline should have asked for volunteers first if the flight was full. I would say that if DH had written to the airline after the flight, including to the higher ups if the first letter did not get results, there is an excellent chance he would have gotten significant and deserved compensation. If the flight was not full, DH would have had to accept any other empty seat.

Flight was full. They were going to put him off without compensation other than the voucher because they claimed he could squeeze in the seat (there was about 6 inches of space). While arguing with the FA a nice gentleman volunteered his seat. He didn't care about getting to newark after midnight. While I would have dealt with 2 kids 6 bags and no car in a closed airport. Whether he would have received compensation is immaterial because we did not require it. I do not believe the gentleman that volunteered received anything except a warm thank you from a grateful family.

 

[Gracie09]

'Cabin class' is the exact wording used in the legislation. There's no mention of considering fares in the legislation, just a mention of 'no additional cost' and 'additional payment is normally required '.

like I said - you are assuming they will be treated differently.

 

[kristenrice]

Has anybody seen how the airlines plan to implement the requirement that they seat children 13 and under next to a parent?

From the Washington Post July 14, 2016:

Perhaps the most troubling item for airlines, in terms of new regulation, is a rule that directs the transportation secretary to establish a policy to allow children under age 13 “to be seated in a seat adjacent to the seat of an accompanying family member over the age of 13” at no additional cost. There is an exception for when such a seat assignment would require an upgrade to another cabin class or a seat with extra legroom or seat pitch, for which additional fees generally are required. But as a practical matter, this policy is certain to chip away at the billions of dollars in seat reservation fees the industry collects from passengers annually.

It sounds to me like airlines will be required to move people around if a parent & child needs to be accommodated.

When you BOOK the flight (NOT when you get on the plane), you are given the option of basic economy (seats assigned at the gate) and Main Cabin (ability to pre-select your seats at a cost). This means that ALL of the seats on the plane that can be assigned at time of booking are charged an additional fee. If you need to be seated with your child (which is what this "law" says is required if your child is under 13), then you must book the fare that includes the seat assignment. Then, if there is an equipment change or another issue which causes your seat assignments to get messed up, THEN the airlines will be required to make adjustments.

My final thoughts...
1) Not all travelers care where they sit on a plane. These are the folks who should book Basic Economy.
2) Some adults traveling without children DO care where they sit and should pay accordingly for their seat.
3) Flying is a privilege, not a right. If you cannot afford the extra cost to purchase assigned seats, then perhaps you need to rethink your travel plans.
4) Under NO circumstances should a person who paid for their assigned seat be required to move to accommodate a child under 13 who was booked in basic economy in order to be in compliance with this "law".
5) For those of you who think this law will save you money because you will no longer have to pay for assigned seating....be careful what you wish for. I see nothing that says the airline must accommodate you on the same flight. If there aren't two, UNASSIGNED seats (those available to the folks who purchased Basic Economy) adjacent to each other when you check in, then you may be bumped to another flight if it would be illegal to separate you from your child. This is extreme, but you never know.
6) Last one....why did they decide on age 13 when you can fly much younger as an unaccompanied minor? I don't know the age minimum for a minor to fly alone, but that is the age that should be applied to this "law"

 

[GrnMtnMan]

When you BOOK the flight (NOT when you get on the plane), you are given the option of basic economy (seats assigned at the gate) and Main Cabin (ability to pre-select your seats at a cost). This means that ALL of the seats on the plane that can be assigned at time of booking are charged an additional fee. If you need to be seated with your child (which is what this "law" says is required if your child is under 13), then you must book the fare that includes the seat assignment. Then, if there is an equipment change or another issue which causes your seat assignments to get messed up, THEN the airlines will be required to make adjustments.

My final thoughts...
1) Not all travelers care where they sit on a plane. These are the folks who should book Basic Economy.
2) Some adults traveling without children DO care where they sit and should pay accordingly for their seat.
3) Flying is a privilege, not a right. If you cannot afford the extra cost to purchase assigned seats, then perhaps you need to rethink your travel plans.
4) Under NO circumstances should a person who paid for their assigned seat be required to move to accommodate a child under 13 who was booked in basic economy in order to be in compliance with this "law".
5) For those of you who think this law will save you money because you will no longer have to pay for assigned seating....be careful what you wish for. I see nothing that says the airline must accommodate you on the same flight. If there aren't two, UNASSIGNED seats (those available to the folks who purchased Basic Economy) adjacent to each other when you check in, then you may be bumped to another flight if it would be illegal to separate you from your child. This is extreme, but you never know.
6) Last one....why did they decide on age 13 when you can fly much younger as an unaccompanied minor? I don't know the age minimum for a minor to fly alone, but that is the age that should be applied to this "law"

Can you clarify which of the above is your opinion? Or has the DOT proposed rules that codify what you are saying? We've had an extensive back-and-forth about what this legislation might mean, but I don't think proposed regulations have been published. If that's incorrect and rules have been proposed or finalized, please point me to them.

Also, this discussion wasn't specific to Delta's Basic Economy, though that was the specific question from the OP.

 

[bumbershoot]

Last one....why did they decide on age 13 when you can fly much younger as an unaccompanied minor? I don't know the age minimum for a minor to fly alone, but that is the age that should be applied to this "law"

Seriously! What a weirdly high age to set the bar at. Many reasonably traveled kids much younger would love the chance for a little controlled independence. Sitting on an airplane a few rows away is just that!

 

[seashoreCM]

... why did they decide on age 13 ... ?

Delta requires payment of the unaccompanied minor fee for a child 13 and under traveling alone.

 

[kristenrice]

Can you clarify which of the above is your opinion? Or has the DOT proposed rules that codify what you are saying? We've had an extensive back-and-forth about what this legislation might mean, but I don't think proposed regulations have been published. If that's incorrect and rules have been proposed or finalized, please point me to them.

Also, this discussion wasn't specific to Delta's Basic Economy, though that was the specific question from the OP.

It's actually all just my opinion. The only factual statement is that a basic economy fare does not include a seat assignment and a main cabin fare does. From that, I take it to be a fact that a person who books a basic economy fare does not care where they sit. If they did, it would stand to reason that they would pay for an assigned seat in main cabin fare class. To put it in a more negative tone, a person who books an economy fare, knowing that they will not get to choose their seat, and then decides that the seat they were assigned is not good enough for them (or their child for that matter) has no recourse in the matter. The time to make that decision was when you booked, not when you receive your seat assignments or board the plane. I guess I don't understand why people feel that they are allowed to book a cheaper fare without paying for a seat and then politely demand that others have to move to accommodate them.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

It's actually all just my opinion.

Ok. Got it.

The only factual statement is that a basic economy fare does not include a seat assignment and a main cabin fare does. From that, I take it to be a fact that a person who books a basic economy fare does not care where they sit. If they did, it would stand to reason that they would pay for an assigned seat in main cabin fare class. To put it in a more negative tone, a person who books an economy fare, knowing that they will not get to choose their seat, and then decides that the seat they were assigned is not good enough for them (or their child for that matter) has no recourse in the matter. The time to make that decision was when you booked, not when you receive your seat assignments or board the plane. I guess I don't understand why people feel that they are allowed to book a cheaper fare without paying for a seat and then politely demand that others have to move to accommodate them.

It'll be interesting to see if 'Basic Economy' fares survive the new rules, if there's any new rules at all (I think there will be).

 

[bumbershoot]

Delta requires payment of the unaccompanied minor fee for a child 13 and under traveling alone.

I just looked at it on delta and it's required through the age of 14.

Only 15 through 17 year olds can have the unaccompanied minor program waived.

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/special-travel-needs/children.html

Alaska drops the requirement once they turn 13. But not delta.

 

[seashoreCM]

The devil's advocate says, compare Delta with Southwest.

Southwest: Parent books two wanna get away* fares for himself and small child, respectively.
Delta: Parent books two basic economy fares for himself and small child, respectively.

Southwest: They are a little late and come running up to the gate.
Delta: They are in the last boarding group.

Southwest: Parent finally boards, carrying child seat while child follows.
Delta: Parent finally boards, carrying child seat while child follows.

You finish the story.

* This trademark is really irrelevent to the discussion.

 

[supersnoop]

No I don't think airlines will refund passengers they ask to move because the contract of carriage does not guarantee a seat just a destination.

If I paid extra for a seat with more legroom and the airline moved me to a differerent seat without the benefit of extra legroom, I would expect a refund for that extra seat charge.

 

[kristenrice]

The devil's advocate says, compare Delta with Southwest.

Southwest: Parent books two wanna get away* fares for himself and small child, respectively.
Delta: Parent books two basic economy fares for himself and small child, respectively.

Southwest: They are a little late and come running up to the gate.
Delta: They are in the last boarding group.

Southwest: Parent finally boards, carrying child seat while child follows.
Delta: Parent finally boards, carrying child seat while child follows.

You finish the story.

* This trademark is really irrelevent to the discussion.

Southwest: Nobody paid for their specific seat assignment so perhaps they will be more willing to accommodate said parent and child. Flight attendants can force people to move if nobody volunteers since they MUST seat the parent next to the child.

Delta: People who paid for their seat assignment are allowed to keep their seat. The FA's can deny boarding to the parent and child and place them on a different flight that has seats that are adjacent to each other. The better solution would be to prevent and adult and child under 13 from booking the basic economy fare in the first place.

 

[Gracie09]

If I paid extra for a seat with more legroom and the airline moved me to a differerent seat without the benefit of extra legroom, I would expect a refund for that extra seat charge.

you may want it, but they don't have to give it. You could be in first class and moved to the last row near the bathroom and they do not have to refund the difference

 

[supersnoop]

you may want it, but they don't have to give it. You could be in first class and moved to the last row near the bathroom and they do not have to refund the difference

When you speak with such absolute authority, you risk being embarrassed.

Most US-based airlines are, in fact, required to refund the difference if you're downgraded. It's in their contracts of carriage. And that's before we get into "deceptive practices" in transportation law or the DOT's regulatory authority.

 

[seashoreCM]

Paid first class is generally a bad bargain because of a great chance of being downgraded and the refund of the difference being small.

In effect you end up paying full fare coach. Almost nobody buys full fare coach from the git go.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't think I've ever seen a thread regarding potentially moving passengers from where they are sitting at to another seat to accomodate another person whether that be a child or another adult (ETA: go in a positive direction over time...meaning the thread that is).

These are the cases where if you have to ask you probably won't like the answer.

Know the rules of the given airline and plan accordingly. Understand that there are limitations;the rules shouldn't be based on everything you can possibilty think of, sometimes decisions will just need to be made at an individual level.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

I don't think I've ever seen a thread regarding potentially moving passengers from where they are sitting at to another seat to accomodate another person whether that be a child or another adult.

There needs to be a sarcasm indicator emoji!

I think I may have caused this thread to go in that direction, but I hadn't seen any discussion of last year's legislation that may/will require airlines to shuffle people to accommodate a parent sitting next to a young child.