Debate: Should Bill Clinton speak at President Reagan's Funeral.

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by peachgirl
Look at Mrs. Ford sitting behind them. Her eyes are closed as well. It's called praying.

GASP! They might be -- DOUBLE GASP! -- praying during a funeral service???

I am no fan of the Clintons, but these cheap shots, especially on this day, are so rude, undignified and especially disrespectful of Mr. Reagan. You would have never heard him pulling stunts like this. It's so sad that this is what partisan politics has brought us to.

 

[peachgirl]

The issue was why pick on Clinton he has not been in office for three and half years.

No, the issue was why waste your time with a man who is no longer in office rather than promote the ideas and political views of the man you believe should be elected President. I could care less what President Clinton deserves or doesn't deserve or if he gets "picked on". I care a great deal about who the next President is and no matter what happens, it's not going to be President Clinton.

I realize this is a radical idea, but it would seem to me that someone who wants President Bush re-elected would try and convince people with facts about HIM, or at the very least by bashing Senator Kerry. I guess I just don't see what political mileage there is in continually droning on and on and on about President Clinton.

 

[Galahad]

She's made it very clear that she wants to do this.

To do what?

I see a woman who believes she still has a purpose for living and a force that the Republicans will have to reckon with if they want her support.

?? What exactly are you hoping she believes. I think you're reading too many implications into this.

 

[missyc]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
Oy vey ... a photographer catches them at this exact moment and people jump to all kinds of conclusions. Wow, I hope those who criticizing the Clintons over this photo never have to suffer the "shame" of having a bad photo taken of them.

Sorry, but I watched the service and saw Clinton "resting his eyes" 3 seperate times. And these were just the times that the camera showed. It was NOT during a prayer and the 1 time his eyes were rolling back in his head! It was definately a nap! I only saw Hillary do it once. Isn't it strange how someone who knows the camera will be on them doesn't try harder to not do certain things such as rolling eyes, sleeping ,etc.
I will say that they weren't the only ones...I noticed Prince Charles fighting to keep his head up too. But it wasn't as obvious and at least he appeared to be fighting it. Bill should have just layed his head over on the cows shoulder!

 

[peachgirl]

Originally posted by missyc
Sorry, but I watched the service and saw Clinton "resting his eyes" 3 seperate times.

You're actually admitting that you watched the funeral and what you paid attention to were the number of times Clinton closed his eyes????


It's heck when you post before you actually take time to check something out. It tends to make you have to come up with ridiculous stories that no one could possibly take seriously.

Anyone who really looks at the photo will see how ignorant one would have to be to believe President Clinton was sleeping or nodding off.

Even if he was snoring so loud you could hear it outside and between naps ate a burger and fries, what the hell difference does it make????? Who cares???? Somebody, PLEASE explain to me what difference it makes to this country what President Clinton does or doesn't do!!!!

To do what?

Use what influence or power she may have to remove the restrictions on stem cell research.

What exactly are you hoping she believes. I think you're reading too many implications into this.

I don't "hope" she believes anything. She has publicly stated her position on stem cell research and has said she intends to dedicate herself to having the restrictions lifted or changed. No implications by me at all, these were her words.

 

[arminnie]

Originally posted by peachgirl
Anyone who really looks at the photo will see how ignorant one would have to be to believe President Clinton was sleeping or nodding off.

It was very hard not to notice President Clinton falling asleep and jerking back awake (he was making an effort to stay awake) when the cameras were focused on him. You cannot blame it on the camera man for a particular channel as there was one feed out to all of the networks.

The cameras certainly were not focused on him especially but were focusing on several people in the audience particularly in the first row sort of randomly. They quickly moved the camera away when it appeared that he had his head back sleeping. I did not see Senator Clinton with her eyes shut that may have only been for a second or two.

Sorry that you that think I am ignorant for my observations. You remind me a little of my dear departed mother. She loved Bill Clinton like a son (his birthday and mine are one day apart). Her prized possession was a picture with him. She absolutely refused to ever believe one negative thing about him no matter what the evidence. She died two months before he had to come on TV and make his big confession, and I was so glad she did not have to watch it as it would have caused her such pain.

People are discussing President Clinton's actions because this whole thread was about whether or not he should have been allowed to speak.

I for one do not believe that his nodding off was a conscious decision to be rude. I just don't think he could help himself.

 

[Bobbles]

I missed the funeral unfortunately. (Live on the other side of the world)
So I decided to check out the Disboards for good reviews!

I can understand the conservative view that Clinton should not speak. (What other view have they had for, say, 12 years!)
But why not Carter? He is a religious, honorable man who was not allowed to speak because he is a Democrat? The President of the US represents ALL Americans.

Both political side of these arguments sit down and shutup in this time when we gather to pay respect to the man and not his party. Allow the men who were elected by the majority of Americans to pay their respects.

The other thing that was interesting was a post about how no Republicans spoke at Johnson's funeral in 1973.
My history is fuzzy on this. Can anybody tell me how many former Republican presidents were around then? Nixon? Was he still in office or had he already resigned?

 

[wendym]

I often have my eyes shut at times during funerals. Partly through prayer and partly because it is the way I deal with them. Funerals bring back many personal memories for people - certainly at most funerals I think of my Dad's one.
As for who speaks - surely that is the family's decision.
Wendy

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
The fact that matters is that Clinton is an impeached president. That is one very good reason why he shouldn't have been invited to speak at President Reagan's funeral.

Sorry, but I totally disagree. If President Reagan would have died while President Clinton were still in office, I absolutely would have expected him to be asked to speak.

I honest to God don't understand either of the two extremes on this thread. One side seems to think that President Clinton should have been asked to speak just because he was a President at one time (so shall we also have Presidents Carter and Ford speak as well?) and the other side says no way should President Clinton have been asked to speak under any circumstances.

As I've said before, I'd be willing to bet that the funeral plans, which have been in the works for years, called specifically for Baroness Thatcher, PM Mulroney, President G.H.W. Bush (as Reagan's VP) and the sitting President to speak at the funeral. Really, is that so difficult for either extreme side to grasp?

You're actually admitting that you watched the funeral and what you paid attention to were the number of times Clinton closed his eyes????

I watched the funeral and since I was paying attention to everyone that was on the screen, I did notice that most of the time that President Clinton was on TV, he appeared to be dozing.

Somebody, PLEASE explain to me what difference it makes to this country what President Clinton does or doesn't do!!!!

Speaking only for myself, I am bothered that President Clinton appeared to be sleeping during the funeral, just as I would be bothered if I had seen anyone else that was dozing. I don't think it takes a great deal of effort to stay awake when you are at a funeral that you know will be televised world wide. For me, it has nothing to do with the fact that it was President Clinton that was sleeping, but rather that someone in that situation would be dozing. JMO.

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by arminnie
It was very hard not to notice President Clinton falling asleep and jerking back awake (he was making an effort to stay awake) when the cameras were focused on him. You cannot blame it on the camera man for a particular channel as there was one feed out to all of the networks.

The cameras certainly were not focused on him especially but were focusing on several people in the audience particularly in the first row sort of randomly. . .

You weren't the only one who noticed. Britt Hume mentioned it this afternoon and attributed to perhaps "concentrating".

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by Bobbles

I can understand the conservative view that Clinton should not speak. (What other view have they had for, say, 12 years!)
But why not Carter? He is a religious, honorable man who was not allowed to speak because he is a Democrat? The President of the US represents ALL Americans.

My only response to this is that, Nancy did not choose for Jimmy Carter to speak. Why does no one get that? Personally, I feel that President Clinton is quite articulate when he makes a speech, and I have no doubt that he would have delivered a very powerful message. It was always a great strength he had. I don't think many would disagree with that either.

I did hear that President Reagan had already asked Bush 41 to speak at his funeral, along with the others. Bush 43 spoke, only because he is the president now. IF Nancy had asked any of the former presidents to speak, I really doubt you'd hear many Republicans complain about it. We're just respecting her wishes, that's all.

 

[peachgirl]

You guys are just a riot.

Really, the supposed nodding off surprised me. I was betting that the first post after the funeral would be about President Clinton smiling.

Oh well, we all know what was important about President Reagan's funeral was what Bill Clinton was or wasn't doing.


So much for that heartfelt love and respect the Republicans have for President Reagan.

You remind me a little of my dear departed mother.

I shouldn't. I have no love for President Clinton at all. In fact, while I agree with his policies and politics, his personal behavior wiped out his accomplishments and that makes me angry. It was such a waste.

I'm just amazed on how fixated the right seems to be with him and how they just can't let go and move on.

Then again, I can't say as I blame the right for their obsession with President Clinton. If I had to defend Bush's policies I'd talk about something else too.


Enjoy yourselves, this sort of cheap trash has gone beyond boring. I can only hope more in your party keep themselves busy doing this right up to the election.

 

[Alice28]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
Sorry, but I totally disagree. If President Reagan would have died while President Clinton were still in office, I absolutely would have expected him to be asked to speak.

I honest to God don't understand either of the two extremes on this thread. One side seems to think that President Clinton should have been asked to speak just because he was a President at one time (so shall we also have Presidents Carter and Ford speak as well?) and the other side says no way should President Clinton have been asked to speak under any circumstances.

As I've said before, I'd be willing to bet that the funeral plans, which have been in the works for years, called specifically for Baroness Thatcher, PM Mulroney, President G.H.W. Bush (as Reagan's VP) and the sitting President to speak at the funeral. Really, is that so difficult for either extreme side to grasp?




I watched the funeral and since I was paying attention to everyone that was on the screen, I did notice that most of the time that President Clinton was on TV, he appeared to be dozing.



Speaking only for myself, I am bothered that President Clinton appeared to be sleeping during the funeral, just as I would be bothered if I had seen anyone else that was dozing. I don't think it takes a great deal of effort to stay awake when you are at a funeral that you know will be televised world wide. For me, it has nothing to do with the fact that it was President Clinton that was sleeping, but rather that someone in that situation would be dozing. JMO.

 

[Bobbles]

Originally posted by N.Bailey
My only response to this is that, Nancy did not choose for Jimmy Carter to speak. Why does no one get that? Personally, I feel that President Clinton is quite articulate when he makes a speech, and I have no doubt that he would have delivered a very powerful message. It was always a great strength he had. I don't think many would disagree with that either.

I did hear that President Reagan had already asked Bush 41 to speak at his funeral, along with the others. Bush 43 spoke, only because he is the president now. IF Nancy had asked any of the former presidents to speak, I really doubt you'd hear many Republicans complain about it. We're just respecting her wishes, that's all.

Oh I understand that Ms. Reagan had planned who would speak. I can respect that.
It is only my opinion that a state funeral can show that, in the end, we can all show a mutual respect for the departed.

Restrictions that leave out speakers based on their political beliefs can best be made at a private ceremony. Funerals are not political venues are they?

 

[arminnie]

Originally posted by Bobbles
Restrictions that leave out speakers based on their political beliefs can best be made at a private ceremony. Funerals are not political venues are they?

Only one former President was invited to speak - George Bush. I think he would have been chosen to speak even if he had never been President - just based on his being VP during Reagan's years in office.

Both Republican and Democratic former Presidents were omitted from the speakers list - it was not only Democratic former Presidents who were excluded.

Excluding Democrats from the guest list (or booing the opposition party when they entered a la the Wellstone funeral) would have been unseemly and worthy of criticism.

 

[Bobbles]

Thanks for letting me know that a former Republican president was also not invited to speak. That would have been Gerald Ford aged 90?
I am slightly behind in the coverage as I live over here.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by Bobbles
Oh I understand that Ms. Reagan had planned who would speak. I can respect that.
It is only my opinion that a state funeral can show that, in the end, we can all show a mutual respect for the departed.

Restrictions that leave out speakers based on their political beliefs can best be made at a private ceremony. Funerals are not political venues are they?

You see though, you're saying on one hand that you respect that Mrs. Reagan has the right to choose, but then in the next sentence you're trying to take that right away from her.

Why can't you understand that Bush 41 was close personal friends with President Reagan either? That's the only reason he was asked. It had nothing to do with politics. Did you see that Bush 41 about choked on his words? In my opinion, his speech had a lot of humor in it, because Bush 41 IMO did not think he could get through an emotional one. I saw an interview with him, and he even said, he's very emotional and wondered himself if he'd be able to give any speech without breaking down.

My opinion is, his speech wasn't very good and Clinton would have definitely delivered a more powerful message, but knowing that Bush 41 gave it his all and knowing that it meant so much to him to do it, I believe the right decision was made.

Edit: And, just for the record, you're the one making this funeral out to be about politics when you say that everyone should be represented. I doubt you'll see the logic behind that though.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Oh well, we all know what was important about President Reagan's funeral was what Bill Clinton was or wasn't doing.

As I said before, to me it wasn't that President Clinton was nodding off, it was that ANYONE would nod off like that. I just found it surprising, that's all.

Restrictions that leave out speakers based on their political beliefs can best be made at a private ceremony.

Why are you insisting that the choice to not have President Clinton speak was a political one? It's been pointed out many times how the speakers were most likely chosen.

It is only my opinion that a state funeral can show that, in the end, we can all show a mutual respect for the departed.

Yesterday's event was not the state funeral. The state funeral was held in the Capitol Rotunda on Wednesday night.