Debate: Free speech a two-way street in school?

[Pete's Mom]

You know, I have to comment that I am 35 years old and when I was in school we NEVER had to deal with stuff like this. Heck, we weren't even allowed to wear shorts unless it was during PE and if you broke that rule, you got in trouble. Period. No attorneys and no lawsuits. For the record, I never once felt like my rights were being "violated or suppressed".

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by meandtheguys
Due to serious medication issues, I have spent the last several minutes trying to figure out why you didn't just write "lodged!" No matter that it didn't make sense!

LOL! Too cute!

 

[Pete's Mom]

Originally posted by meandtheguys
Due to serious medication issues, I have spent the last several minutes trying to figure out why you didn't just write "lodged!" No matter that it didn't make sense!

Testing to see if it is a banned word......here goes....

DAMNED

Whew! Now if I can just get *snerk* added to the banned list.

 

[jrydberg]

Yes, it's appropriate to support a message of tolerance while condemning a message of hatred

And you are the one who determines what a message of hatred is? Or the school is? That's pretty scary.

I certainly don't see that t-shirt as a message of hatred. Choosing to see it as a message of hatred is, in an of itself, a political position. Let's not pretend it isn't.

Also, the school goes beyond a message of tolerance. They're honoring the gay lifestyle.

In short, the school's message is not one of tolerance and the student's is not one of hatred, in my view.

Personally, I don't agree with the student's view, but I'll defend his right to express it.

 

[poohandwendy]

Due to serious medication issues, I have spent the last several minutes trying to figure out why you didn't just write "lodged!" No matter that it didn't make sense!

LOL, that is too funny...

You know, I have to comment that I am 35 years old and when I was in school we NEVER had to deal with stuff like this. Heck, we weren't even allowed to wear shorts unless it was during PE and if you broke that rule, you got in trouble. Period. No attorneys and no lawsuits. For the record, I never once felt like my rights were being "violated or suppressed".

You definitely have a point there.

I have to say, I don't think this issue should have gone beyond the principals office and it sure is a sad state that everything seems to end up in an attys office.

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
I'm sure you don't, neither do I. But when we allow beliefs/morals to be taught in school we have to accept that someone, somewhere has their beliefs being trampled on. I don't want that to be mine any more than you do. Tolerance IS a two way street. Roll your eyes all you want, but people have the right to be *****what you and I consider to be**** ignorant, intolerant and prejudiced. Big emphasis on the fact that all people see things differently. They also have the right to teach their children what they believe to be true.

Again, this is why public schools have no business promoting morality.

Well, you're certainly right about all that...even though I don't like it

Seriously, though...I don't know how this "appreciation day" was carried out, but what if it was simply pointing out the contributions to society made by gay people throughout history (there's no shortage, after all)...How would that "disrupt" the class, or trample on anyone's beliefs ? Wouldn't that still get the message across without becoming "preachy" about it ?

The fact is, we really do have a problem with intolerance in this country, and the kids learn it at home...so if the school doesn't attempt to teach diversity, then how will that problem ever be rectified ?

meandtheguys wrote: Due to serious medication issues, I have spent the last several minutes trying to figure out why you didn't just write "lodged!" No matter that it didn't make sense!

Ok, you just about got me in trouble for laughing...lucky my office door was shut or my boss would have heard that for sure

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by Pete's Mom
Now if I can just get *snerk* added to the banned list.

Hey! Back off my word, woman!

 

[Pete's Mom]

Hey M - I am adding *schmucky* too!

 

[poohandwendy]

Well, you're certainly right about all that...even though I don't like it

Well sure, me too...in my world everyone would agree with me and I would rule supreme....

....however...back to reality.....

I really wouldn't want to live in a country where one particular way of think was the ruled the 'right' way...knowing my luck, I would end up on the short end of the stick.

That is what our country is all about , protecting people from being bullied into some stepford wife type of existence...

diversity includes the idiots....

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by Pete's Mom
Hey M - I am adding *schmucky* too!

Are you looking for a rumble or what?

 

[faithinkarma]

Seriously, though...I don't know how this "appreciation day" was carried out, but what if it was simply pointing out the contributions to society made by gay people throughout history (there's no shortage, after all)...How would that "disrupt" the class, or trample on anyone's beliefs ? Wouldn't that still get the message across without becoming "preachy" about it

That is the point I was trying to make earlier. We do not know why they had this day, nor what exactly was involved, so it is really difficult to judge the school without this information.

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by faithinkarma
That is the point I was trying to make earlier. We do not know why they had this day, nor what exactly was involved, so it is really difficult to judge the school without this information.

... or even if the school was involved in any official capacity at all.

 

[treesinger]

First, thanks all for a great debate!!

Second, I think we've been losing sight of the fact that being tolerated is not a right.

Third, I'm planning on homeschooling my children and this case is just one small point to highlight why. MY morals are going to be taught to MY kids. I will not allow the public school system to undermine that effort. Education is ok. Indoctrination is not.

 

[jrydberg]

Second, I think we've been losing sight of the fact that being tolerated is not a right.

I guess that's the point I've been trying to make, albeit in a much more clumsy manner

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
I think the school was wrong, and I wouldn't allow my children to wear that shirt to school. I certainly don't agree with the shirt, but I cannot agree that it was disruptive (no more than a short skirt would be).

Freedom of speech is not reserved for only those who are tolerant, tactful, enlightened and show compassion towards others.

I think the school was definitely wrong for having a 'gay appreciation day', not because of the group mentoned but because I feel NO group should be singled out and 'appreciated' in a public school environment. IMO, it does nothing but separate and highlight the differences. Diversity and acceptance cannot be force fed, they happen naturally through experiencing common interests and being exposed to ALL types of people. Singling out a group in favor, any group, causes more intolerance, IMHO.

I do not think this student would have worn that shirt had there not been a 'gay appreciation day'. If the message truly is acceptance, then that should be applied equally.

Shoot, after reading many of your posts, I feel all I have to do is find your posts and reply with a ITA! Very well stated.

 

[poohandwendy]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
... or even if the school was involved in any official capacity at all.

LOL, at this point, I am not even debating the school (for that reason) only the hypothetical idea of school doing this.

It should be noted that we also have no idea what the kid involved meant or thought (motives) while wearing this shirt or how his wearing it was received by the students.

I went to school with quite a few kids who just liked to stir the pot...I also know one guy who wears political tshirts in a sarcastic sort of way, just to get the ocnversation going. Usually it is a shirt that does not reflect his core beliefs. He says he does it to weed out the *******s....his words, not mine...

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
LOL, at this point, I am not even debating the school (for that reason) only the hypothetical idea of school doing this.

Heh. I know.

It should be noted that we also have no idea what the kid involved meant or thought (motives) while wearing this shirt

We don't *know,* but I think we can come to a fairly good educated guess. Especially given the two days in a row thing. *******.

or how his wearing it was received by the students.

I'm sorry to say, I think I probably don't want to know the answer to that question.

 

[poohandwendy]

Originally posted by N.Bailey
Shoot, after reading many of your posts, I feel all I have to do is find your posts and reply with a ITA! Very well stated.

***blush**** awww, thanks N.Bailey

 

[poohandwendy]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
Heh. I know.
We don't *know,* but I think we can come to a fairly good educated guess. Especially given the two days in a row thing. *******. I'm sorry to say, I think I probably don't want to know the answer to that question.

True, I meant more along the lines where he could be one of the kids where people just roll their eyes and shake their heads at him (not taken very seriously). This may not be anything new with him.

 

[N.Bailey]

You're welcome poohandwendy, I see the thread has changed courses many times since you'd written that though. LOL

My take on it to add a little further though is, I am a Christian, and as I Christian, the Bible tells me that homosexuality is wrong. That does not mean however that I am intolerant of the gay lifestyle. Believing as I do, and teaching my child what I feel are my values, would someone explain to me, if this were to be taught in the public school system, who is going to back my ideals up for me? My children are taught tolerance of others lifestyles at home (but frankly, IMO this is a parents responsibility, not the schools), but I let them know in no uncertain terms it is against God's Law.

Now, you don't have to agree with me. I respect your rights to believe what you wish, but especially where this issued is concerned (It's not the same with African Americans) and many people having their own religious beliefs, the school should play no part in whatsoever IMO!