DCL/Disney Business model change setup for long term failure?

[Dug720]

I certainly don't think that vacations are a right and I don't think 100% of the population should be the target market but I do think that it should be reasonably accessible to more than 10%. From my understanding the entire intent of Disney was to make a family friendly destination an average middle class family could afford and it has gotten away from that. Obviously everyone is responsible for their own financial decisions but I hate it when I see people talking about scrimping and saving to afford a trip to Disney when I think in many situations they are doing that at the expense of their retirement savings and children's college funds.

Where is the scientific data that says it's "accessible to only 10%"? I've never seen any legit data that shows that figure.

I can tell you for a fact that we were never in the top 10% and we have never had to cut into retirement or college savings for a vacation. My parents used credit cards, but paid them off when the bill came in. And I make payments as I go along now that I'm doing my own vacation - and I'm still not cutting into my retirement or anything. Did we go every year? No. But we always had a vacation of some type, and a good portion of those have been at WDW. Granted, we never had to stay Deluxe and Club Level. We stayed off-property and had just as good of a time. I'm even *gasp* staying at Sports in August and cannot wait!

There are ways to do Disney without cutting into other vital things - and for kids who realize that there have been some sacrifices and it IS a special thing, I'm pretty sure they appreciate their trip to Disney at least as much - and probably more - than a child of the top 10% who gets things handed to him/her on a silver platter.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I believe Disney will remain strong as long as the majority of Americans continue to "Keep up with the Joneses." Many continue to spiral into debt, (I'm not saying anyone here), on stuff their neighbors have, but don't have the means to truly afford it. Many of our friends drive Tahoes, Escalades, Lexus etc and are leasing them. My wife and I drive Hondas that we paid cash for so we are burdened with debt. But debt is the way of the world now. Just my $.02

I agree and think people like Dave Ramsey, who is more popular than ever, are a threat to Disney's business model.

 

[LAX]

I certainly don't think that vacations are a right and I don't think 100% of the population should be the target market but I do think that it should be reasonably accessible to more than 10%. From my understanding the entire intent of Disney was to make a family friendly destination an average middle class family could afford and it has gotten away from that. Obviously everyone is responsible for their own financial decisions but I hate it when I see people talking about scrimping and saving to afford a trip to Disney when I think in many situations they are doing that at the expense of their retirement savings and children's college funds.

I honestly don't know what Walt's intents/visions were when he started Disney, but I doubt an affordable cruise was what he envisioned. I supposed one can make the argument that $100/day admission to a Disney park isn't affordable for most and not what Walt had envisioned, but was an annual visit to one of his parks what he had on his mind? Perhaps it may be more than once in a lifetime, but saving to go on a Disney vacation once every few years should still be attainable to most middle class families in the US if that's what they choose to do.

LAX

 

[PAGA2003]

Where is the scientific data that says it's "accessible to only 10%"? I've never seen any legit data that shows that figure.

I have no idea if there is a study out there that shows that. There is data that shows the average family income is $50-60k which, in my personal opinion, realistically would be hard to fund a Disney vacation while covering living expenses and funding savings properly. I do realize many don't emphasize retirement and college the way we do.

 

[cgolf]

I know I am at risk for major flaming for writing this, but I really don't understand why some people feel Disney needs to price its offerings (ie: WDW/DL vacations, cruises, etc.) so that 90% of US population can afford it? Back when I was a kid, I didn't go on any Disney vacation because my parents couldn't afford one. Should my parents have complained that it wasn't affordable? While I am not in Disney's target demographics (supposedly top 10% of US incomes or something like that), I can now comfortably afford at least an annual WDW/DL vacation or DCL cruise for my family if I want to (but, I don't). My point is a Disney vacation/cruise should not be perceived as something that needs to be accessible to everyone. There are definitely other "luxuries" that price out 90% (or perhaps even 99%) of the US population (ie: private jets), and should those that can't afford them be complaining to those businesses as well?

LAX

Not from me, I wrote my initial post not knowing the answer to my comment. I do know brand awareness/loyalty/followers (can't come up with a better word) has been a strong suit of DCL. Not being Disney fans ourselves (expect to be equally flamed) I am not feeling bad about our decision to move on for at least a while. I personally have never understood the blind faith that Disney does and knows best crowd. They are a buisness just like others that can make some boneheaded decisions, but not saying they are now.

I just threw out the question, because I know some people that are either dropping Disney trips or doing less, similar to us. Also have seen some loyal cruisers on these boards drop them too. I wish DCL all the luck in the world, they have a cool product we may sail again in the future, if not oh well.

 

[LAX]

I have no idea if there is a study out there that shows that. There is data that shows the average family income is $50-60k which, in my personal opinion, realistically would be hard to fund a Disney vacation while covering living expenses and funding savings properly. I do realize many don't emphasize retirement and college the way we do.

It appears 5-day tickets to WDW for a family of 4 (2A, 2K) costs about $1.5K. I don't know how much typical off-site accommodations near WDW would cost, but average hotel rates run about $200/night. Thus, tacking on an additional $1.5K would cost $3K. Throw in another $1.5K for airfares and rental car. The grand total should be about $4.5K (excluding meals, which can vary quite a bit). Can an average family save $1K/year and go on a Disney vacation once every 5 years? I don't think it's that difficult if one is fiscally responsible.

LAX

 

[Dug720]

It appears 5-day tickets to WDW for a family of 4 (2A, 2K) costs about $1.5K. I don't know how much typical off-site accommodations near WDW would cost, but average hotel rates run about $200/night. Thus, tacking on an additional $1.5K would cost $3K. Throw in another $1.5K for airfares and rental car. The grand total should be about $4.5K (excluding meals, which can vary quite a bit). Can an average family save $1K/year and go on a Disney vacation once every 5 years? I don't think it's that difficult if one is fiscally responsible.

LAX

And many families choose to drive rather than fly.

 

[LAX]

Not from me, I wrote my initial post not knowing the answer to my comment. I do know brand awareness/loyalty/followers (can't come up with a better word) has been a strong suit of DCL. Not being Disney fans ourselves (expect to be equally flamed) I am not feeling bad about our decision to move on for at least a while. I personally have never understood the blind faith that Disney does and knows best crowd. They are a buisness just like others that can make some boneheaded decisions, but not saying they are now.

I just threw out the question, because I know some people that are either dropping Disney trips or doing less, similar to us. Also have seen some loyal cruisers on these boards drop them too. I wish DCL all the luck in the world, they have a cool product we may sail again in the future, if not oh well.

Just to be clear, I wasn't targeting you as the OP. However, I have seen many threads bashing Disney (its different divisions) for pricing them out. I supposed they are certainly entitled to their opinions, but not an expectation that Disney should be affordable to many (if not all), IMHO.

LAX

 

[cgolf]

Where is the scientific data that says it's "accessible to only 10%"? I've never seen any legit data that shows that figure.

I can tell you for a fact that we were never in the top 10% and we have never had to cut into retirement or college savings for a vacation. My parents used credit cards, but paid them off when the bill came in. And I make payments as I go along now that I'm doing my own vacation - and I'm still not cutting into my retirement or anything. Did we go every year? No. But we always had a vacation of some type, and a good portion of those have been at WDW. Granted, we never had to stay Deluxe and Club Level. We stayed off-property and had just as good of a time. I'm even *gasp* staying at Sports in August and cannot wait!

There are ways to do Disney without cutting into other vital things - and for kids who realize that there have been some sacrifices and it IS a special thing, I'm pretty sure they appreciate their trip to Disney at least as much - and probably more - than a child of the top 10% who gets things handed to him/her on a silver platter.

Like you we are able to save money pay for college and cruise so much by being frugal in other areas of our life, we just made cruising a priority and figured out how to make it happen in budget. We are also now here's near the top 10 percent either.

 

[LAX]

Like you we are able to save money pay for college and cruise so much by being frugal in other areas of our life, we just made cruising a priority and figured out how to make it happen in budget. We are also now here's near the top 10 percent either.

This is exactly my point. There are certainly many things in life that even if one tries to be frugal and save a lifetime for, one still won't be able to afford it. Disney isn't one of them. If a Disney vacation is getting more expensive for the average middle class American family to go on an annual basis (which I definitely doubt was part of Walt's visions), then go less often. Perhaps cut expenses else where so that one can go at a frequency one desires. Yes, it certainly sucks that a Disney vacation is getting more and more expensive, but it isn't a life necessity that should be made available/accessible to all.

LAX

 

[cruiser21]

Whats considered top 10 %?

 

[cruiser21]

I certainly don't think that vacations are a right and I don't think 100% of the population should be the target market but I do think that it should be reasonably accessible to more than 10%. From my understanding the entire intent of Disney was to make a family friendly destination an average middle class family could afford and it has gotten away from that. Obviously everyone is responsible for their own financial decisions but I hate it when I see people talking about scrimping and saving to afford a trip to Disney when I think in many situations they are doing that at the expense of their retirement savings and children's college funds.

You definitely have to find a balance between savings and enjoying life. I just found out one of my coworkers has stage 4 liver cancer. She's 45 with three kids. I had another co worker who was 47 pass away last month. I think everyone struggles with how much to save, and how much to spend. If we new how long we were going to live it sure would make it a lot easier.

 

[PAGA2003]

You definitely have to find a balance between savings and enjoying life. I just found out one of my coworkers has stage 4 liver cancer. She's 45 with three kids. I had another co worker who was 47 pass away last month. I think everyone struggles with how much to save, and how much to spend. If we new how long we were going to live it sure would make it a lot easier.

Totally agree Everyone has to find their happy medium.

 

[PAGA2003]

Whats considered top 10 %?

Somewhere around $160k I believe.

 

[cgolf]

This is exactly my point. There are certainly many things in life that even if one tries to be frugal and save a lifetime for, one still won't be able to afford it. Disney isn't one of them. If a Disney vacation is getting more expensive for the average middle class American family to go on an annual basis (which I definitely doubt was part of Walt's visions), then go less often. Perhaps cut expenses else where so that one can go at a frequency one desires. Yes, it certainly sucks that a Disney vacation is getting more and more expensive, but it isn't a life necessity that should be made available/accessible to all.

LAX

For us we could have afforded DCL, we just didn't feel the DCL/Disney premium was worth it to us. I know others are for real priced out though.

I also don't believe that DCL has to price for all either, and I hope none of my posts come across that way.

 

[perditax]

I hesitate to mention this because I don't want it to get as crowded as WDW, but priced-out folks should give Universal at least a cursory glance. Between the Harry Potter areas, the new awesome-looking water park opening in May, and upcoming Nintendo world, it's a viable alternative. I'm sure eventually it'll be just as expensive, but for now it's (IMO) in a sweet spot, and still has an actual off-season. We really enjoyed our trip last month. I bought seasonal annual passes which conferred a large discount on our on-site hotel (Hard Rock), which in turn conferred unlimited express passes.

 

[cruiser21]

Somewhere around $160k I believe.

I guess that would depend on where you live also. In New York or San Fran I can't see that being the top 10%. In Az where I live I would think the top 10% might be a little lower then that.

 

[cruiser21]

I hesitate to mention this because I don't want it to get as crowded as WDW, but priced-out folks should give Universal at least a cursory glance. Between the Harry Potter areas, the new awesome-looking water park opening in May, and upcoming Nintendo world, it's a viable alternative. I'm sure eventually it'll be just as expensive, but for now it's (IMO) in a sweet spot, and still has an actual off-season. We really enjoyed our trip last month. I bought seasonal annual passes which conferred a large discount on our on-site hotel (Hard Rock), which in turn conferred unlimited express passes.

I love, love, love Universal. Hard rock, Royal Pacific are great. You can't beat the express passes. Cabana Bay is our favorite hotel to stay at pre cruise even if we don't go to parks. Affordable and nice.

 

[perditax]

I love, love, love Universal. Hard rock, Royal Pacific are great. You can't beat the express passes. Cabana Bay is our favorite hotel to stay at pre cruise even if we don't go to parks. Affordable and nice.

I'm intrigued by CB and I'm not even a family who would benefit from those nice (affordable!) suites. They're actually pushing some kind of buttons for me with the theming (Mad Men? Heh). Maybe we'll do a WDW trip sometime and just stay at CB.

 

[mevelandry]

I know I am at risk for major flaming for writing this, but I really don't understand why some people feel Disney needs to price its offerings (ie: WDW/DL vacations, cruises, etc.) so that 90% of US population can afford it? Back when I was a kid, I didn't go on any Disney vacation because my parents couldn't afford one. Should my parents have complained that it wasn't affordable? While I am not in Disney's target demographics (supposedly top 10% of US incomes or something like that), I can now comfortably afford at least an annual WDW/DL vacation or DCL cruise for my family if I want to (but, I don't). My point is a Disney vacation/cruise should not be perceived as something that needs to be accessible to everyone. There are definitely other "luxuries" that price out 90% (or perhaps even 99%) of the US population (ie: private jets), and should those that can't afford them be complaining to those businesses as well?

LAX

I think it's because originally, Walt Disney wanted it to be accessible to most families. And it was... But now it isn't.

When I started going 5 years ago, MK tickets were 85$. Now they are 125$. We used to stay at Deluxe hotels for 350-400$/night, now they charge 500-600$/night and sometimes more. Our last Disney Cruise in December 2015 we had a verandah for 1700$ (for 2). Now in 2017, we have an inside room for 1700$ (for 2). It's a huge price difference and it's just gonna get worst.

I'm not mad at Disney for raising their prices. The prices are ridiculous because they did not add much to the parks (especially MK) and I am not interested in paying more for something that I have already experimented many times (and starting to get bored with). That would be illogical. (The only reason we are going this year is because we're travelling with my in-laws and they have never been there. We've been talking about this family trip for a long time.)

I love Disney but I'm falling out of love with the way they treat their guests (taking them for granted).