DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[BingoJoe]

I think an under appreciated aspect of this change is that an increasing proportion of adult park goers have a diagnosis and are requesting accommodation.

If only a small proportion of guest present with a lower level of needs, the park will be required to accommodate them.

If the proportion of guests with this same level of needs reach’s a significant percentage of total park goers, then accommodating that level of needs will affect the running of the park and the ability of Disney to accommodate others.

This will lead to Disney offering a lesser level of accommodation to individuals they used to be able to help, essentially because they have to treat everyone with similar needs equally and there are a lot more of them now.

I think it is going to tip the balance of whether WDW is worth it for some families and that is sad.

 

[cat4hurricane]

@lanejudy Maybe? But to have it for one trip and one trip only when I don’t need it anywhere else seems like a lot, I’m that old at all, and I’d rather not have my family have to pay for some outside service or something just to accommodate that. An EVC would be more pain than it’s worth considering how hard it looks to navigate queues and lines, a roller might help, but that seems actually excessive for my needs. I just need, like a camp chair that I can bring, if we’re gonna be that decisive about things needed in line, and I already have one of those that I wouldn’t mind bringing if I needed to. I imagine a lot of people no longer being covered by DAS but still have physical disabilities are probably deciding how they can accommodate themselves much like I would be.

 

[cat4hurricane]

I think an under appreciated aspect of this change is that an increasing proportion of adult park goers have a diagnosis and are requesting accommodation.

If only a small proportion of guest present with a lower level of needs, the park will be required to accommodate them.

If the proportion of guests with this same level of needs reach’s a significant percentage of total park goers, then accommodating that level of needs will affect the running of the park and the ability of Disney to accommodate others.

This will lead to Disney offering a lesser level of accommodation to individuals they used to be able to help, essentially because they have to treat everyone with similar needs equally and there are a lot more of them now.

I think it is going to tip the balance of whether WDW is worth it for some families and that is sad.

I mean, there’s also COVID that happened, and that disabled a lot of people that were previously fine, so it’s not just that there’s more people going but more people who are also disabled. I keep hearing that there’s increasingly more people requesting DAS, and that Disney thinks that some are scamming, but there’s also been a massively disabling event that is now causing more people to be disabled. It’s not necessarily that there’s more scammers, it’s that there’s legitimately more disabled people in the world then there was before and I don’t quite think Disney has realized how many of these new requesters are covered in that umbrella. Previously, Disney was known as a great place to go if you had disabilities, so suddenly it’s worrying to them that their reputation as a disability-friendly place to be is catching to them, in an age with increasingly more disabled people?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

when I don’t need it anywhere else seems like a lot, I’m that old at all,

If my mom had gone with us in 2017 she would have gotten an ECV, not because of her age but because she was very close at that point to needing a total knee replacement. A theme park was really the only place that would have been necessary because in her day to day life it wasn't an issue and it was managed differently. In 2019 she had both knees total replaced, she was considered young by her doc for that at age 60, she's still and was a very active person.

I know for some people looking at what options available sting the pride, seem over the top, or are more trouble than its worth but it's a decision people shouldn't ultimately shy away from. Def. if you personally think navigating something like an ECV would be difficult for you that is something you need to consider perhaps looking at what other things may be available should you get denied DAS but don't completely rule out something because of some of the things you've mentioned. It's another tool people use to make their park going experience workable for the conditions that come with that.

 

[lanejudy]

Beyond that, has anyone had any luck with just going to the ride you want and asking for a return time with these new rules in place? I’d be happy to ask for a good return time if that was available for me and that would work as an accommodation.

Asking for a return time at an attraction without having DAS is unlikely to get you anything more than a "no."

I’d rather not have my family have to pay for some outside service or something just to accommodate that. An EVC would be more pain than it’s worth considering how hard it looks to navigate queues and lines, a roller might help, but that seems actually excessive for my needs. I just need, like a camp chair that I can bring

ECV rental can be expensive, but it if helps it may be worth the expense.
Folding camp chairs are not allowed. However Disney did adjust their rules and now allows a "cane seat" -- google it, you can probably get one for $30 USD (I think you might be in Europe so I'm not sure what that translate to in Euros). A rollator would cost somewhere between those 2 options. It can be rented but the rental is likely to cost as much as buying. Buying means you have it for any future needs that may arise, such as future WDW trips since it sounds like you have made multiple visits and presumably would again in the future.

 

[lanejudy]

Are people being denied DAS but told they could get RTQ? Is that noted, or do they still have to ask every ride and the CM decides if they will give it?

Attraction Queue Re-entry is the "new" accommodation that is largely expected for many who may have previously used DAS. It is available to all guests, not need to "qualify" in any way. Simply inform the CM you need to leave the queue; the process will vary by attraction, though. There have been reports that they may ask if it's disability-related, I'm not sure if that's because there could be different procedures vs a parent taking a young child on a potty break.

 

[lanejudy]

It’s not necessarily that there’s more scammers, it’s that there’s legitimately more disabled people in the world then there was before and I don’t quite think Disney has realized how many of these new requesters are covered in that umbrella.

This is the exact issue. Not entirely due to scammers, though that certainly adds to the situation, but simply too many people requesting disability accommodations. As a "one-size-fits-all" solution, DAS is no longer something Disney can offer to all disabilities. We're essentially headed back into the old GAC which offered different accommodations based on the needs.

 

[mlayton14]

I would also plan to not be allowed in the travel party. If you are allowed you’ll be happy, if you aren’t allowed you can have researched a couple rides with traditionally short lines at certain times to do together.


Not so simple

-dr’s don’t know what Disney’s line criteria are. Kid twisted his ankle? Note. You have IBS? Note. FL is stupid hot in Aug, it’s just generally unhealthy for anyone over 65 to be outside then. Have a note.

-Notes for sale

-Forged notes

-Disney having a record of your health. They have steadfastly not retained any records of anyone’s health conditions, refusing to even look at them if offered. This seems to be a cornerstone of their various disability programs as this never changes.

It’s a heck a lot harder to fake a doctors note than it is to fake symptoms to a Disney employee. Notes also would allow verification from the doctors office , I don’t see why that is so hard to implement.

 

[starlite_]

I guess the situation of the person approaching the CM would have to specify they have a condition, and at that point you hope the CM would handle it correctly, obviously too many reports coming out with vague descriptions or not detailed enough, and then of course we can't properly analyze the situation

The original story didn't specify if it was a child, adult, if a condition was present, was it for #1 or #2, that's another problem all together, is the lack of quality of second hand information we're receiving from all over. The stories are almost making things more confusing because of this. Another snag is we are encouraging people not to go too in detail of fears of spoon feeding abusers answers.

The best way to find out what is really going on, will be unfortunately good-old first hand experience, and learn the hard way per individual.

I honestly don't see the reason anyone would need to be specific as to why they need to leave to use the restroom or why the CM would care if the guest needs to pee/poop/other.

If the cast member (who we both agree aren't mind readers and can't know if the guest has a medical condition) asks them if they can hold it they can simply say no. If after that the CM denies them the Attraction Queue Re-entry then sure, make a fuss. But automatically assuming the CM is being insensitive and degrading to the guest and comparing it to asking a guest to "hold their heart attack" is way over the top.

It's honestly really tiring to keep seeing folks here and elsewhere automatically assume the absolute worst intentions of people and that everyone is being ableist. It's unhelpful and only increases the worry and anxiety surrounding these changes.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

do not underestimate the severity of IBS/IBD conditions, it's not a tolerance, it is medical conditions that prevent them from having control, I don't want to reveal too much details, but that comment of "holding it" is a degrading comment to anyone who suffers those conditions, excuse me can you just hold off your heart attack, you're almost on the ride

Unless you are wearing a shirt that says “I have IBS/IBD” how would the cast member be able to distinguish between that need and a normal urge to go to the bathroom? My point about not being able to read minds is that they can’t. So they are trying to be inclusive here by providing all of the information that most guests would need. Obviously if it doesn’t apply then say thank you but that you need to go now.

 

[Madteaparty001]

@lanejudy Maybe? But to have it for one trip and one trip only when I don’t need it anywhere else seems like a lot, I’m that old at all, and I’d rather not have my family have to pay for some outside service or something just to accommodate that. An EVC would be more pain than it’s worth considering how hard it looks to navigate queues and lines, a roller might help, but that seems actually excessive for my needs. I just need, like a camp chair that I can bring, if we’re gonna be that decisive about things needed in line, and I already have one of those that I wouldn’t mind bringing if I needed to. I imagine a lot of people no longer being covered by DAS but still have physical disabilities are probably deciding how they can accommodate themselves much like I would be.

DD has a wheelchair we bought from Costco with our HSA (about $180 I think?). She does not use it in her daily life, it mostly collects dust in the basement until we pull it out for an outing with a lot of walking such as a trip to the museum or a vacation like Disney. We bought it after our last trip where we had to return a day early the disability stroller we had rented. We thought we'd see how she did with only a few hours in the evening for the fireworks but she didn't make it 30 minutes before DH had to carry her on his back for most of the night. Next morning we rented a wheelchair at the park for our last day. If you do not want to invest in a piece of equipment to use when you need it I would suggest looking into rentals, the Orlando area and Disney have plenty of options.

I honestly don't see the reason anyone would need to be specific as to why they need to leave to use the restroom or why the CM would care if the guest needs to pee/poop/other.

If the cast member (who we both agree aren't mind readers and can't know if the guest has a medical condition) asks them if they can hold it they can simply say no. If after that the CM denies them the Attraction Queue Re-entry then sure, make a fuss. But automatically assuming the CM is being insensitive and degrading to the guest and comparing it to asking a guest to "hold their heart attack" is way over the top.

It's honestly really tiring to keep seeing folks here and elsewhere automatically assume the absolute worst intentions of people and that everyone is being ableist. It's unhelpful and only increases the worry and anxiety surrounding these changes.

People react that way as a learned response. A dog that is kicked often will learn to reflexively cringe/cower/snarl when ever a person walks by. It's no different with people with disabilities having to constantly defend themselves against cruel/ignorant comments and questions. Is it the right response? No, is it an understandable response? Yes. Especially because those who are disabled are at high risk of developing anxiety which definitely colors your view and reactions.

 

[BingoJoe]

It’s not necessarily that there’s more scammers, it’s that there’s legitimately more disabled people in the world then there was before

Yes that’s exactly my point, in a world where a much higher proportion of people are disabled the threshold and definition for reasonable accommodation for each individual person will be both legally and necessarily less generous.

 

[PrincessV]

It’s quite possible that my view is biased by my own condition that would be adequately accommodated by AQR, (assuming AQR really works as we think it does AND that it has some means of working for solo visitors), but I’m of the mind that more accessibility for ALL is a good thing. I see AQR as I do mobility device ramps: necessary for those who need access via wheels, but also helpful for those who aren’t on wheels, but have a hard time with stairs - whether that’s due to a disability, or age, or temporary injury, or just plain preference. The Guest who needs AQR to manage their disability before returning to line is accommodated, and the guest who needs AQR to take their child to a restroom mid-queue is accommodated. I fail to see how this is bad. Will it make lines longer? I don’t think so. I also don’t think any of these changes will result in a measurable reduction in wait times, but that’s for a variety of reasons well beyond AQR.

None of that is to say that those for whom AQR does not reasonably accommodate their needs shouldn’t have access to something that will. DAS remains an important tool and those who need that level of accommodation should have access to it.

 

[Chuckdlc]

I know we are all of the mindset that the goal is to weed out fakers...personally, I think a larger part of the problem that no one really wants to be the bad guy and say it, is that there are a lot of people who will have those papers that are required by Universal/6 Flags, that don't actually need DAS. I mentioned my son specifically earlier in this thread as an Asthmatic who would fall under ADA, my wife has Mast Cell Activation Syndrome (MCAS), but is fortunate that she personally does not require DAS to navigate the parks.

Not everyone with Asthma needs DAS, not everyone with ADHD needs DAS, not everyone with IBS/IBD/Chron's or Colitis needs DAS, not everyone with Autism needs DAS. For a lot of people DAS became a just in case pass, and for me, this is what Disney is trying to stamp out. A 1 size fits all accommodation is the root of why this is being overused. Simply requiring a doctors note, opens the system up to even more of this overuse, and you get away from true needs.

I also want to point out that the IBCCES system is under current Litigation and a class action lawsuit. Disney may go down this road, after that suit is settled/pending the outcome, but jumping into that system while it is in litigation doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense right now.

I'm disagreeing with nothing in your post at all. (Just want to be clear about that).

I think one significant reason IBCCES is better is because they at least look like they care. (Follow me here) Say that someone tells Disney I need DAS, and has at least arguably a valid request, Disney says no, person says but I have medical records, Disney says don't care don't want to see them....AND THEN, the person has a significant health issue in the park. The fact that Disney refused to look at the records is going to be (in hindsight) very damaging. It seems as if they don't want to know because they don't want to have to accommodate.

 

[Bearval]

I mean, there’s also COVID that happened, and that disabled a lot of people that were previously fine, so it’s not just that there’s more people going but more people who are also disabled. I keep hearing that there’s increasingly more people requesting DAS, and that Disney thinks that some are scamming, but there’s also been a massively disabling event that is now causing more people to be disabled. It’s not necessarily that there’s more scammers, it’s that there’s legitimately more disabled people in the world then there was before and I don’t quite think Disney has realized how many of these new requesters are covered in that umbrella. Previously, Disney was known as a great place to go if you had disabilities, so suddenly it’s worrying to them that their reputation as a disability-friendly place to be is catching to them, in an age with increasingly more disab

Yes that’s exactly my point, in a world where a much higher proportion of people are disabled the threshold and definition for reasonable accommodation for each individual person will be both legally and necessarily less generous.

Unfortunately there was enough abuse of the system that Disney has decided to just follow the ADA rules which requires them not to discriminate against people with disabilities and to provide reasonable accommodations. If people have a mobility issue, then having the queues for attractions wide enough to accommodate a wheel chair or electric scooter meets that definition of a reasonable accommodation. If the person cannot stand for long periods that a reasonable accommodation would be suggest they use a wheel chair or electric scooter. This is not discrimination it is just a fact of the world we live in with an ever growing aging population more and more people need some type of assistance.

 

[BingoJoe]

Unfortunately there was enough abuse of the system that Disney has decided to just follow the ADA rules which requires them not to discriminate against people with disabilities and to provide reasonable accommodati

It’s not just pure abuse, although I know it exists because my sister openly scams DAS, many of the users are convinced they are entitled to DAS even if they don’t need it.

As a personal example, the deaf community (of which I am a small part) is rife with people who think they are entitled to everything like DAS anywhere they can get it. I can promise you being deaf alone has no effect on your ability to wait in a line.

But it’s not that people aren’t actually disabled in some way and it’s not that they think that they are asking for something unfair. They aren’t trying to be knowingly dishonest.

 

[Bearval]

I'm disagreeing with nothing in your post at all. (Just want to be clear about that).

I think one significant reason IBCCES is better is because they at least look like they care. (Follow me here) Say that someone tells Disney I need DAS, and has at least arguably a valid request, Disney says no, person says but I have medical records, Disney says don't care don't want to see them....AND THEN, the person has a significant health issue in the park. The fact that Disney refused to look at the records is going to be (in hindsight) very damaging. It seems as if they don't want to know because they don't want to have to accommodate.

The barrier to get approved for the IBCCES is on the low side, I am not saying people don't have legitimate issues, but a large portion of those approved could benefit by just having reasonable accommodations such as having queues lines wide enough for wheelchairs and electric scooters. To give everyone a pass will just make DAS a disaster. I can see in a few years some of the crowded popular parks that accept IBCCES make changes to their system.

 

[Disneychick75]

I wouldn’t mind getting this info for them at all. However, I would feel slightly weird asking my doc for this. Qualifying for disability? Sure. Being excused from jury duty? Absolutely. A note saying I can’t stand in line for rides? Meh...feels weird

I dunno….just seems like a lot to ask from our docs. I get it though. If they want proof, I can get it. I do think something tangible that we already have should suffice

On another note…how sad that there are so many tutorials on how to abuse DAS. I hate that those abusers have potentially taken away the ability for so many of us to qualify honestly. I’m holding out hope that I will qualify when I need to apply again in July. I am gutted though from some of the stories I am seeing from others…especially the ones involving children. Fingers crossed Disney adjusts as time moves on

It's like the doctor writing a prescription- not a big deal. Kinda sorta like when my doc filled out the paperwork for my handicap hang tag and license plate. He was the one who suggested it. I know he'd do the same for DAS buy Disney doesn't want this.

 

[jlundeen]

Is it really necessary that about every other page we end up going back to the "why not a Dr's note/form/etc.?" The Mods have explained over and over why not. Just scroll back a couple of pages and you can see a very good outline of why this is not used by Disney. Disney has determined what method they will use. If we want to go there, we have to play by their rules.

Sorry if this sounds harsh... but we're almost at 300 pages now, and this has been discussed many many times... Let's try to work towards understanding the new methods and what we need to use in the future for our trips.

 

[CAPSLOCK]

The barrier to get approved for the IBCCES is on the low side, I am not saying people don't have legitimate issues, but a large portion of those approved could benefit by just having reasonable accommodations such as having queues lines wide enough for wheelchairs and electric scooters.

Because IBCCES serves many different theme parks, all they say is "yes, that person has a disability." Then the individual theme park decides what, if any, accommodation that person receives. For Universal, you may get the IBCCES card but they will not grant you additional accommodations if the need is strictly mobility - the queues are already accessible. For Six Flags, mobility issues might be granted alternative entry to certain rides which do not have accessible queues.