DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[starlite_]

I'm curious, what did folks do before guests were able to request DAS online? Considering it's a fairly new service, DAS was never guaranteed before arriving to a park before.

 

[Disturbia]

They have VIP at Disney. And even that doesn’t promise FOTL. At that price it really should. ETA: Searched the group. They now have tiered vip. Land of Dreams up to 6 people $14000 is FOTL.

It’s $1400 an hour Phew (wait that’s ridiculous as well; I thought VIP tours were $600-800 per hour minimum of 8 hours). Well if anyone here thought it wasn’t all about the Moola..

 

[Disturbia]

Pre pandemic our 7 night vacation was around $8,000 that’s just park tickets and resort. We paid around $1800-2000 for flights and similar for food. Now the base cost of a 7 night vacation has increased by 50% AND there is an added cost of Genie+, ILL$ and no extra magic hours for resort guests - those are sold as After Hours.

 

[sprem96]

I'm curious, what did folks do before guests were able to request DAS online? Considering it's a fairly new service, DAS was never guaranteed before arriving to a park before.

Online process is barely over a year old, prior to 2023 it was all in person at guest services where you talked to a CM at the park and then they set it up for you for the duration of your visit and was valid I think for 60 days

 

[SueM in MN]

But DISNEY is saying if you can’t Waite on line for a hour.. you must buy Genie +. At some major price x amount of people in your party to not Waite on line

Where? I see Genie+ in "a list of options to assist guests in accessing attraction queues" but nowhere do they even suggest that it must be purchased if you can't wait an hour. I do not interpret that list to be a list of any/all "accommodations" offered, just services available which may or may not help any given individual/party meet their needs for touring the parks.

People are making the assumption that the Genie service is only Genie + which is a paid service. There is a completely free part of Genie where you can put in your 'must do' attractions and it will help you plan an itinerary with the lowest wait times for those attractions. We've never used it to plan an itinerary because we knew the parks so well before it existed. But, I do know that some people with disabilities use and like it. Even with DAS, it can help to know when an attraction is likely to have the lowest wait time. It's a tool that can be used and is listed as another tool on the Disability information page. I've also seen the CMs at the Guest Experience umbrellas help people figure it out.
Link to Disney Genie information

In all honesty -- those posts should have been removed. And in any normal thread such posts would have been removed with a note to the poster advising not to share so much info. However the moderators have had trouble even keeping up with the thread, we haven't had time to deal with such posts. I suppose I could go back now and start, but I'd just fall behind on current posts and after this past week I really don't want to get into that position again right away. This isn't a paid job, moderators are volunteers with our own families, jobs, lives outside of DIS.

So... now that things have calmed a bit I will remind everyone: PLEASE DO NOT OVER-SHARE ABOUT YOUR/YOUR FAMILY MEMBER'S DISABILITY NEEDS. This thread really is quite a dump of info that anyone with ill-intent could easily cull.

I totally agree with lanejudy. Normally, we would be dealing with those posts. But, we are having a hard time keeping up. Sometimes I write a post and during the time I'm typing and the time it posts, there are 3 more pages to read.
We COULD close the thread temporarily to go thru and take care of them, but we want to keep the thread open.
Besides what lanejudy posted in bold above, I'd encourage people to think about what you already posted on this thread. IF YOU THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE POSTED TOO MUCH PERSONAL INFO ABOUT YOUR/YOUR FAMILY'S DISABILITIES/NEEDS, PLEASE GO BACK AND EDIT IT.

 

[Jrb1979]

Pre pandemic our 7 night vacation was around $8,000 that’s just park tickets and resort. We paid around $1800-2000 for flights and similar for food. Now the base cost of a 7 night vacation has increased by 50% AND there is an added cost of Genie+, ILL$ and no extra magic hours for resort guests - those are sold as After Hours.

That's partially why the numbers I posted has happened. I'm not saying its all abuse but it's not coincidence that DAS usage has risen since Genie+ became a thing.

 

[nalababybear]

Here is some numbers as the reason Disney had to change things.

Can you source the claim of these numbers?

They mismatch what many DAS holders experience in the ground, and we tend to be keenly aware of our surroundings too to pick up in things like fellow DAS parties

 

[sprem96]

I'm curious, what did folks do before guests were able to request DAS online? Considering it's a fairly new service, DAS was never guaranteed before arriving to a park before.

I can't speak before 2017, but I've been using DAS or (the equivalent service since then) after I was diagnosed in 2014, I attempted to go to theme parks in 2016 when I was on a somewhat normal lifestyle again, and it didn't go well at parks, wasn't able to consistently stay in lines and luckily I read into it more for 2017 and realized I qualified for theme park disabilities and it has been helpful since

 

[Jrb1979]

Can you source the claim of these numbers?

They mismatch what many DAS holders experience in the ground, and we tend to be keenly aware of our surroundings too to pick up in things like fellow DAS parties

What do they mismatch?

 

[SueM in MN]

I interpreted the post as If you want a similar experience to DAS, then you'll have to purchase Genie+. Jake, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Disney offers Genie as an option not Genie+ because a public accommodation, aka, theme park, aka Disney World or Disneyland, asking the disabled to pay extra is a no no. Guessing their lawyers or ADA compliance team let them know this.
Of course, people can choose to pay for Genie+ and Disney won't mind one little bit.

"Below is a list of options to assist guests in accessing attraction queues.

Rider Switch

Single Rider

Disney Genie Service

Disability Access Service

Stroller as a Wheelchair Tag

Navigating Queues with Service Animals"

I'm sorry if it wasn't clear but my post was specifically aiming at Genie+ (soup) being forced onto ppl like some posters are suggesting.

It is not mean to represent any other other accommodations because it's a simple analogy.

I think I've mentioned quite a few times thru the thread my thoughts on other parts of the issue.

Genie Services isn't only the paid Genie+ service.
You can get more information on the free Genie planning services on the My Disney Experience app

 

[EEPETEZ]

Our family has viewed WDW as a place for us to be together for 50 years now, my family came the first year it was open and has been returning at least once/twice a year since. Because WDW could accommodate disabilities (which we have needed for the last 15 years), we were able to continue to have that experience together.

I fundamentally understand that rider switch or something similar technically allows a disabled person to ride the ride and I hope that works for as many people as possible. I also understand that most places do not accommodate the disabled person and their families-which is why we try not to go to those places. I also understand, as has been said countless times on this thread, that families separate all the time at Disney. That is by choice and is very different than being required to separate for every ride so that your disabled family member is allowed to ride. For our family, the ability to be together was why we keep coming back. If the disabled person in our family is separated on each ride-we would have and will now choose somewhere else to go. For our family, we are mourning the loss of many future memories.

I’m sorry there was so much abuse and/or that ride capacity does not meet the demand of the disabled and those purchasing genie+. It seems as though those are the reasons Disney has given for the change and those reasons have nothing to do with the disabled person. Our family member was unable to wait in a regular line today just as they were last week, nothing has changed about their disability. I hope the new system works for as many as possible.

 

[nighttowll]

I agree about Universal parks being overall much less accessible. Islands of Adventure especially is primarily thrill rides. There is very little there for my disabled daughter.

I've been to Universal Orlando twice all by myself and twice with other family members. We've thought of going there with my disabled daughter - she'd seeing enjoy the Hogwarts/Hogsmead area, but there is very little she could do anywhere in Islands of Adventure. Hogwarts Express is the only Harry Potter thing that is wheelchair accessible, but you need park hopper tickets to ride it. So taking her to Universal would be a very expensive day to spend mostly just walking around in a very sensory heavy environment

And Universal seems to be moving more and more towards being a thrill rides only park. In the last 10 years, they have made a pattern of closing non-thrill ride attractions (shows and tours) and not replacing them. It used to be we could go and spend a whole day on low intensity attractions, that's not the case anymore. I really miss Poseidon.

Also, for those thinking about Universal, their allergy accommodations are no where on the same level as Disney. They won't guarantee anything, so cross contamination is a big deal. How allergies are handled across restaurants is not standard, and you'll get conflicting information on what is safe depending on if you are looking at a menu, talking to a waiter, or talking to a chef. Some restaurants are not even allowing you to talk to chefs. Just something to be aware of before people jump ship.

 

[JLTraveling]

I haven't been to universal just yet since their change to IBCCES system, going in August, but I did apply for IBCCES in December and was approved after showing my medicinal proof and gastroenterologist contact. I know for DAS you need to sadly need to purchase tickets before approaching them 30 days before your visit. Universal if I'm remembering you need to apply for IBCCES (they recommend 30 days away but you can do it earlier), still need to go in person on your visit and present them your card and like before will decide at that point to issue your AAP but once again, would need to have purchased tickets before finding out.

Unfortunately that’s me out then. We are in U.K. so for family of 4 it’s £2100 for Disney and about £1300 for universal.
That’s too much money on a maybe.

That's actually incorrect information. Once you are approved through IBCCES, you then have a phone call with Uni's disability accommodations team. They usually try to time it to a week or two before your trip, but you can call them at any time (call the main number and ask to be transferred to the disability accommodations team). Given your situation (coming from the UK), you can go ahead and talk to them before you put out the money for your trip.

In any event, during that phone call they assess your needs. Assuming they approve your accommodations, they give you a case number, which gets attached to your digital IBCCES card. You do have to stop by Guest Services when you get there, but not to be reassessed. You just show them that digital card on your phone, they put the case number in the computer, and it spits out the relevant accommodations. You're approved forever, as long as you remember to renew the IBCCES card once a year. If the original accommodations they provide don't work for you, go to Guest Services and let them know. They can get you back in touch with the accommodations team and get everything updated to the new accommodations, and then those are the ones that will spit out each time.

 

[starlite_]

Here is some numbers as the reason Disney had to change things.

8% of visitors are DAS
70% of a rides capacity is given to DAS
74-85% of LL users are DAS

15-26% of LL users are G+
10-25% of a rides capacity is given to G+

5-20% of a rides capacity is given to standby guests

8% of visitors get 70% of a rides capacity
92% of visitors get 30% of a rides capacity, which is unevenly given to G+ users

This is a huge problem and needs a radical solution, I’m sorry it’s causing heartache to some of the most vulnerable in our society but the company cannot function, nor is it fair to the rest of us, for this to continue.

Where did you get those numbers, because if true then Disney can def argue DAS is giving people with disabilities a better experience that other guests.

 

[DFelt1]

Here is some numbers as the reason Disney had to change things.

8% of visitors are DAS
70% of a rides capacity is given to DAS
74-85% of LL users are DAS

15-26% of LL users are G+
10-25% of a rides capacity is given to G+

5-20% of a rides capacity is given to standby guests

8% of visitors get 70% of a rides capacity
92% of visitors get 30% of a rides capacity, which is unevenly given to G+ users

This is a huge problem and needs a radical solution, I’m sorry it’s causing heartache to some of the most vulnerable in our society but the company cannot function, nor is it fair to the rest of us, for this to continue.

Where do these numbers come from? I'm not suggesting they are wrong, but I'd love to see a source.

The math doesn't seem to be mathing to me -
2019 average daily attendance for Magic Kingdom was 57,000, which at 8% is 4,560 granted DAS. (2022 numbers are lower, I don't think we have 2023 yet.) [https://allears.net/2023/06/01/how-many-people-go-to-disney-world-every-day/]
The ratio here of LL DAS to LL G+ (75%/15% to 85%/25%) suggests less than 1,500 using G+ in Magic Kingdom, which feels off to me, but I don't know that we have actual stats.

Using Peter Pan's Flight as a good benchmark ride - a nice, family-friendly ride that many people can tolerate and generally has long waits, making it ripe for DAS/LL, plus has a low capacity:

The operational hourly ride capacity is 720 people. Based on the above, 70% or 504 people are DAS users, or fully one-ninth of all DAS users in Magic Kingdom on an average day are riding Peter Pan's Flight every hour of park operations? [https://crooksinwdw.wordpress.com/2013/12/14/theoreticaloperational-hourly-ride-capacity-at-wdw/]

Not to mention rides that can cycle far more people like Haunted Mansion (2,880 per hour) where, per the 70%, nearly half of all DAS users are riding every single hour.

These are averages, Magic Kingdom's capacity is greater than 57,000 per day, sure. I don't suggest that there isn't a problem, and clearly Disney feels it is a problem. But there are lots of facts and numbers in this thread with little to no evidence, so respectfully, cite some resources.

 

[Jrb1979]

Where do these numbers come from? I'm not suggesting they are wrong, but I'd love to see a source.

The math doesn't seem to be mathing to me -
2019 average daily attendance for Magic Kingdom was 57,000, which at 8% is 4,560 granted DAS. (2022 numbers are lower, I don't think we have 2023 yet.) [https://allears.net/2023/06/01/how-many-people-go-to-disney-world-every-day/]
The ratio here of LL DAS to LL G+ (75%/15% to 85%/25%) suggests less than 1,500 using G+ in Magic Kingdom, which feels off to me, but I don't know that we have actual stats.

Using Peter Pan's Flight as a good benchmark ride - a nice, family-friendly ride that many people can tolerate and generally has long waits, making it ripe for DAS/LL, plus has a low capacity:

The operational hourly ride capacity is 720 people. Based on the above, 70% or 504 people are DAS users, or fully one-ninth of all DAS users in Magic Kingdom on an average day are riding Peter Pan's Flight every hour of park operations? [https://crooksinwdw.wordpress.com/2013/12/14/theoreticaloperational-hourly-ride-capacity-at-wdw/]

Not to mention rides that can cycle far more people like Haunted Mansion (2,880 per hour) where, per the 70%, nearly half of all DAS users are riding every single hour.

These are averages, Magic Kingdom's capacity is greater than 57,000 per day, sure. I don't suggest that there isn't a problem, and clearly Disney feels it is a problem. But there are lots of facts and numbers in this thread with little to no evidence, so respectfully, cite some resources.

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...sney-world-2024.983481/page-124#post-10897857

they come from insiders on WDWMagic. I don't think the numbers are per ride but overall.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Here is some numbers as the reason Disney had to change things.

8% of visitors are DAS
70% of a rides capacity is given to DAS
74-85% of LL users are DAS

15-26% of LL users are G+
10-25% of a rides capacity is given to G+

5-20% of a rides capacity is given to standby guests

8% of visitors get 70% of a rides capacity
92% of visitors get 30% of a rides capacity, which is unevenly given to G+ users

This is a huge problem and needs a radical solution, I’m sorry it’s causing heartache to some of the most vulnerable in our society but the company cannot function, nor is it fair to the rest of us, for this to continue.

If these are official, holy crap...they really wanted a slam dunk legal case to destroy DAS...

 

[nalababybear]

What do they mismatch?

As several folk mentioned already; source your numbers please. These are significantly out of line of reports here.

 

[starlite_]

Where do these numbers come from? I'm not suggesting they are wrong, but I'd love to see a source.

The math doesn't seem to be mathing to me -
2019 average daily attendance for Magic Kingdom was 57,000, which at 8% is 4,560 granted DAS. (2022 numbers are lower, I don't think we have 2023 yet.) [https://allears.net/2023/06/01/how-many-people-go-to-disney-world-every-day/]
The ratio here of LL DAS to LL G+ (75%/15% to 85%/25%) suggests less than 1,500 using G+ in Magic Kingdom, which feels off to me, but I don't know that we have actual stats.

Using Peter Pan's Flight as a good benchmark ride - a nice, family-friendly ride that many people can tolerate and generally has long waits, making it ripe for DAS/LL, plus has a low capacity:

The operational hourly ride capacity is 720 people. Based on the above, 70% or 504 people are DAS users, or fully one-ninth of all DAS users in Magic Kingdom on an average day are riding Peter Pan's Flight every hour of park operations? [https://crooksinwdw.wordpress.com/2013/12/14/theoreticaloperational-hourly-ride-capacity-at-wdw/]

Not to mention rides that can cycle far more people like Haunted Mansion (2,880 per hour) where, per the 70%, nearly half of all DAS users are riding every single hour.

These are averages, Magic Kingdom's capacity is greater than 57,000 per day, sure. I don't suggest that there isn't a problem, and clearly Disney feels it is a problem. But there are lots of facts and numbers in this thread with little to no evidence, so respectfully, cite some resources.

I can't math this early in the morning, but are you counting the DAS member's guests? That would be around 4 extra people per DAS guest.

 

[nalababybear]

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...sney-world-2024.983481/page-124#post-10897857

they come from insiders on WDWMagic. I don't think the numbers are per ride but overall.

So said someone inside of inside information sourcing. And there goes the echo chamber.

Those numbers are way outside of reality.