DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[StitchesGr8Fan]

Do you have evidence that das was the reason for long LL. Also no but it is clear that a lot of people are no longer Das users.
And for there top attractions it’s +/- 20€ per LL spot. Don’t tell me they don’t sell these spots.

Actually, they may not be selling 100% of the spots because it dilutes the purpose of the LL and ticks off the standby users who then spread the word not to come to the parks because the waits are too long. Yes money is a driver, but not just for LL sales.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Do you have evidence that das was the reason for long LL. Also no but it is clear that a lot of people are no longer Das users.
And for there top attractions it’s +/- 20€ per LL spot. Don’t tell me they don’t sell these spots.

Given that reports since the DAS change indicate that the LLs are consistently much shorter than before, I would say that no, Disney is not selling the additional capacity opened up by finally fixing the DAS.

 

[lanejudy]

Do you have evidence that das was the reason for long LL.

It would certainly seem that was the case. Since the DAS change, reports from in the park are consistently saying very short —if not walk-on — LL waits.

 

[Disturbia]

This came up a couple hundred pages ago but I will rehash it - because sometimes seeing what is reasonable through a different lens can help what feels like an unfair change make sense. Sorry, super long, guess I'm chatty today.

We have crazy food issues in my family.

We can't just mobile order, and we can't just approach the counter and order like normal people. We have to do the order through a chef process, which can first involve waiting for the chef. Then we are in a line behind everyone else who ordered special, and others who didn't order special if the kitchen is busy, then we often need to go to a second location for something for a different person and start the whole process over. QS meals can take hours. If someone can't certainly wait an hour+, we have to split and send parts of our group to different restaurants. Is any of this fair? Does this mean they are punishing us for having a disability?

We need to eat, and Disney gets us food though it might not be fully convenient. Concerning DAS, Your group needs to wait and needs to get through the line. One person can't do the line itself, so they wait in a different space. Disney found a way to allow the whole party to ride together. We have to split up for our food waits, this doesn't mean I'm being punished, it means we are getting what we need in different ways for different people. Disney didn't cause us to need different accommodations.

The argument that every person with a disability that causes issues with the line should get a preferred alternative with their entire group in tow, is similar to saying when I want food I should reach the ordering counter and the entire restaurant should STOP until my group is served. Because every time a party enters the LL, the standby stops for that one slot. It wouldn't be fair for my order process to take longer, so everyone in the place might wait 20 minutes until the chef comes out. Picture the whole kitchen shuts down every time an allergy order comes in. Because I shouldn't be punished for having a disability, so they should accommodate it in the way I prefer. This means they serve my entire group from one location, and in the same time it takes for a regular order. I can even further say this is to make up for some uncertain amount of hardship faced elsewhere, additional bathroom time, time to research where I can even try to eat, etc.

The reason the analogy makes sense is that DAS gives the person with the disability to right to say "I would like to go do that later, and it will happen on demand when I want to go and with my whole family" Then everyone stuck in standby is put on hold for it at the moment they choose. Not a big deal when it's one party, but we all know it's not just one party a couple times/day coming back with a DAS. When it's getting up to 5 or 10%, it can basically shut the park down, the same way my "I will order and get food at my place in line" would do so. Everyone is always saying it's the same wait, just an alternative space - and if that's all it is, then it's ok for the accommodation to be an alternative wait for the individual who is saying they need an alternative wait.

I know it's easier to think it's not changing the line because if you weren't in LL, you would have been in standby - but it doesn't work that way unless every person with a DAS literally does nothing with that extra time it affords them. I know it also sucks to have to split up, but this is not a problem unique to families with a disability. People without disabilities get tired, get hungry, have bathroom needs, kids have meltdowns, ADULTS have meltdowns, we get crabby and sad and impatient, and just need time apart as much as we need time together. If we want to say people with disabilities are only asking for equal footing, it can't come with demands for special exceptions for everything unpleasant that happens to people at all.

We have kids with allergies and our QS takes 1.5 (TS takes 2) as we wait for the chef & then food. We also have a child with a disability.

The kitchen vs LL comparison is flawed. WDW website states that DAS is for people with autism or similar. It is NOT a special exception and there are reasons for this accommodation that benefit Disney (safety, efficiency (vs holding up line), less calls to Reedy Creek etc).

I don’t think we need to minimize the challenges of those who have disabilities and the families that deal with them. I believe the moderators set that as a clear rule not to minimize other people’s challenges.

 

[Disturbia]

It would certainly seem that was the case. Since the DAS change, reports from in the park are consistently saying very short —if not walk-on — LL waits.

The reports also state that park attendance is low as well. But for sure there is an impact.

I’m hopeful they will train CMs better so kids who really need the pass aren’t being denied.

 

[OurBigTrip]

We have kids with allergies and our QS takes 1.5 (TS takes 2) as we wait for the chef & then food. We also have a child with a disability.

The kitchen vs LL comparison is flawed. WDW website states that DAS is for kids with autism or similar. It is NOT a special exception and there are reasons for this accommodation that benefit Disney (safety, efficiency (vs holding up line), less calls to Reedy Creek etc).

I don’t think we need to minimize the challenges of those who have disabilities and the families that deal with them. I believe the moderators set that as a clear rule not to minimize other people’s challenges.

I’m pretty sure that the Disney website doesn’t say that the DAS is for kids.

 

[Disturbia]

I’m pretty sure that the Disney website doesn’t say that the DAS is for kids.

The point was not to minimize disabilities.

From reports on the other thread more adults with developmental disabilities are being denied vs kids

 

[jo-jo]

The reports also state that park attendance is low as well. But for sure there is an impact.

I’m hopeful they will train CMs better so kids who really need the pass aren’t being denied.

Also the no preselects and lower number of people per pass must help with less people in lines.

 

[Philsfan77]

Do you have evidence that das was the reason for long LL. Also no but it is clear that a lot of people are no longer Das users.
And for there top attractions it’s +/- 20€ per LL spot. Don’t tell me they don’t sell these spots.

All in what you choose to believe...but the data is essentially out there. They provided it in the GAC lawsuit, which they won roughly 5 years ago, along with what percentage those users were taking up in certain queue spaces. They announced with these changes that usage has tripled in the last 5 years from roughly that time. Ultimately, the only way to truly flush all the numbers out, will be another lawsuit, but Disney wouldn't have gone down this road if they didn't have the data to backup that usage has tripled in the last 5 years, and it was causing a detriment to their operations and to the non-disabled park goers (which is what they would essentially need to prove to win the lawsuit, like they did last time).

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I had not heard that, only that you must enter a park before booking new stuff which puts our later in the day folks at a serious disadvantage. I would double check that with the TPAS thread as enter park + expire or use LL 1 is being widely reported.

On Day 1, several people reported that letting a LL expire did NOT unlock better LLs— I will be so happy if that turns out to be wrong.

Unfortunately the new program killed staying in hotel and stacking. You have to enter a park for day of changes and you can have a rolling 3 LLs. Once you’re underway day of you can crossover return times completely but not much during pre-booking.

So you have to enter *and* expire LL or enter *and* use?

Yeah, always thought that was just a weird absolute for using FP+ and now MPLL -- required park tap-in.

It wasn’t so bad before I was disabled/had extreme trouble sleeping (and didn’t have kids) because I could sleep from 1-7:30 or come back and nap during mid-day rush. Now it’s really exhausting to rope drop (or arrive before 11, honestly). I have to return to room either way but can’t sleep during napping hours.

The best touring option is ropedrop with preselects, get those rides in, then exit ; rest until evening while stacking and go back in the evening to close out the MPLL and fill between short queues or other shows -- this is predicated that your party is able to ropedrop and split the day readily.

Absolutely agree, but not easy for many ex-DAS users and it was a bit cruel to dramatically change DAS and paid LL at the same time with limited explanation of how it would work until last week.

Lack of extended hours really sucks and surprised Disney hasn't brought them back more extensively -- seems like occupancy rates remain sufficiently high to not be bothered with the additional costs involved. EH really made a difference in the crowds overall and MK was so nice to be able to navigate without constantly bumping into folk when transiting through small world/peter pan bottleneck.

It used to be one of the best parts of WDW over DL and great for people who have trouble with long lines. Now because there are fewer we often only catch one park and it’s better than mid-day but lines aren’t that short (because everybody at a Deluxe is prioritizing it).

Hopefully you can give them feedback on this as a prime example where prior DAS holders trying to make new touring changes are having difficulty and a modernization of the MPLL would be good for all sorts and Disney resort folk

I actually called yesterday and tried to explain that I tried my best to self-accommodate with LLs but they pulled the rug out from under us with the new system and I wanted to know if they could help me book then closer together or waive early park entry requirement, etc. I wasn’t trying to get DAS just trying to explain that LLMP and LLSP was going to be crushing for my body/mind even though we dropped money on both each day of our trip and that I felt it was awful they changed both on short notice without explanation in advance…the frontline DAS person was lovely and empathetic but firmly said they couldn’t help. I was trying to find out from manager what day of options would be and how they would work and that woman was extremely cold and told me they could not do anything (or even give us a single LL) because “my problem was with the paid service, not DAS.”

 

[mistysue]

We have kids with allergies and our QS takes 1.5 (TS takes 2) as we wait for the chef & then food. We also have a child with a disability.

The kitchen vs LL comparison is flawed. WDW website states that DAS is for people with autism or similar. It is NOT a special exception and there are reasons for this accommodation that benefit Disney (safety, efficiency (vs holding up line), less calls to Reedy Creek etc).

I don’t think we need to minimize the challenges of those who have disabilities and the families that deal with them. I believe the moderators set that as a clear rule not to minimize other people’s challenges.

I am not in ANY way minimizing challenges of those with disabilities, I made extremely clear why I was using the analogy, and if you chose to nitpick about it rather than seeing that there are some very real comparisons in there about what those who are upset with Disney about the changes are saying, that is up to you. In many ways, the things you are pointing out make what I was saying more applicable when you throw in things like safety, efficiency and fewer calls to RC. Imagine if the protocol all along had been to shut down the line for allergies and they tried to take it away. There are far fewer people using DAS because without they would be guaranteed a call to RC vs those with allergies who need special orders to avoid the same.

But the reality is that they do not need to make such a grand gesture of shutting the kitchen, just like how they don't need to keep "shutting down" then entire ride line for whole parties when one person needs an alternative wait. There are going to be exceptions to everything, so lets say for 90% of former DAS users they do not actually NEED the entire party out of line with them on every ride. Frankly when we eat QS it's not weird for us to have to split between locations and also spend a good hour getting the food for each location, so the argument that it's unfair for people to split IS demanding an exception and insisting that those with disabilities should be treated better than the average guest. There are a lot more parallels in there if you want to see them.

 

[Disturbia]

I am not in ANY way minimizing challenges of those with disabilities, I made extremely clear why I was using the analogy, and if you chose to nitpick about it rather than seeing that there are some very real comparisons in there about what those who are upset with Disney about the changes are saying, that is up to you. In many ways, the things you are pointing out make what I was saying more applicable when you throw in things like safety, efficiency and fewer calls to RC. Imagine if the protocol all along had been to shut down the line for allergies and they tried to take it away. There are far fewer people using DAS because without they would be guaranteed a call to RC vs those with allergies who need special orders to avoid the same.

But the reality is that they do not need to make such a grand gesture of shutting the kitchen, just like how they don't need to keep "shutting down" then entire ride line for whole parties when one person needs an alternative wait. There are going to be exceptions to everything, so let’s say for 90% of former DAS users they do not actually NEED the entire party out of line with them on every ride. Frankly when we eat QS it's not weird for us to have to split between locations and also spend a good hour getting the food for each location, so the argument that it's unfair for people to split IS demanding an exception and insisting that those with disabilities should be treated better than the average guest. There are a lot more parallels in there if you want to see them.

I don’t disagree (or anyone here for that matter) that DAS abusers need to be weeded out. They are already limiting number of people to immediate family and no one disagrees with that either.

Disney changed the rules and we can argue all we want but won’t change the outcome.

 

[mistysue]

I don’t disagree (or anyone here for that matter) that DAS abusers need to be weeded out. They are already limiting number of people to immediate family and no one disagrees with that either.

Disney changed the rules and we can argue all we want but won’t change the outcome.

I was trying to help that individual see that what they thought was reasonable (never splitting up ever) might not be when drawn out to a larger scale. This is what Disney is doing for people who no longer qualify and someone needs to leave and re-enter or re-join their group.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I don't know that I would take short summer lightning lane waits as a sign of DAS changes alone impacting that. There has been a trend over the course of years (including before pandemic) of summer having significantly less than expected attendance. There were national articles last summer when DAS was unchanged about the parks being deserted even for the July 4th holiday weekend. Of course lightning lanes will also be shorter when overall park attendance is lower as well.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I don’t disagree (or anyone here for that matter) that DAS abusers need to be weeded out. They are already limiting number of people to immediate family and no one disagrees with that either.

Disney changed the rules and we can argue all we want but won’t change the outcome.

Another group needed to be weeded out as well, and I'm betting that group is larger than the abuser group - those for whom other accommodations would work, but they used DAS instead. That's Disney's fault, no doubt, but I'm glad that they're finally tightening up who qualifies for DAS.

 

[gottalovepluto]

So you have to enter *and* expire LL or enter *and* use?

Yes. The first day a reporter for a blog let a LL expire without entering a park and it wouldn't let her book another ride until she entered the park.

My suspicion is the system was specifically programmed to act like this. Otherwise folks could just change all their LLs to a more expensive park than originally booked day of- now they have to physically go to the originally booked park before switching to a more expensive park's LLs. Having to go all the way to AK to get LL's at MK's price is too much hassle for most folks- especially since day of availability for good stuff has been somewhere between sad to non-existent. The casualty of that is non-rope drop folks. The days of stacking a half a dozen+ LLs for afternoon/evening are absolutely gone. You can still sleep in but your LL count will be 3-4 with only 1 really good one. I used to leave parks before close but this new LL system will probably have me hitting up one of the hotter rides at park close more often than not (like ROTR, infamous for showing like a 45 min wait at park close when the reality is the wait is like 15).

 

[OurBigTrip]

I don't know that I would take short summer lightning lane waits as a sign of DAS changes alone impacting that. There has been a trend over the course of years (including before pandemic) of summer having significantly less than expected attendance. There were national articles last summer when DAS was unchanged about the parks being deserted even for the July 4th holiday weekend. Of course lightning lanes will also be shorter when overall park attendance is lower as well.

I don't think anyone has said it was DAS alone, but it's a mathematical fact that if fewer people are getting a DAS and they're bringing few people in line with them, the LL will be shorter than it was.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I don't think anyone has said it was DAS alone, but it's a mathematical fact that if fewer people are getting a DAS and they're bringing few people in line with them, the LL will be shorter than it was.

I agree, I just don't know that we can fully understand the scope of the impact when this time of year has been a very slow time over the course of multiple years, pre-DAS changes.

 

[Disturbia]

I was trying to help that individual see that what they thought was reasonable (never splitting up ever) might not be when drawn out to a larger scale. This is what Disney is doing for people who no longer qualify and someone needs to leave and re-enter or re-join their group.

Reports on the approval/denial thread are actually positive on the rejoin your family option. When they near the end of the line, the family can FaceTime the person waiting outside and the CM will walk the waiting person to join the rest of the group.

 

[mistysue]

Reports on the approval/denial thread are actually positive on the rejoin your family option. When they near the end of the line, the family can FaceTime the person waiting outside and the CM will walk the waiting person to join the rest of the group.

Yes. I was responding to someone who was back to complaining that it's unfair to do that because a family should never have to split up.

We also accidentally experimented on our last trip with what happens when someone needs to leave, and found that it's nowhere near as scary as it seems. (even had it occur after we had used G+ and were near boarding) We were before the changes took effect but found CMs wanted to be helpful and wanted to get reasonable solutions. I would expect it to be going even better now, but have been following all of these threads this whole time.