DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Haven't ben following the new MPLL rules since we are disneyland anaheim folk. Is it like the old FP+ system of needing to tap into the two FP preselects in order to start the scheduling future ones? Have to dig up old touring plans if so.

Similar. You need to actually get into a park and use a LL to be able to select more than 1 tier one ride (and at Epcot and MK, there’s not much in Tier 2 worth using). Plus you can’t have LLs less than 50m apart. This is a tough system for people whose chronic pain prevents them from being in the parks long…after they changed DAS, I’d assumed we could stack in the AM from the hotel but I was wrong, we’ll see how it goes but we’re planning to cancel our Thanksgiving trip.

I wish you cool temperatures and good queues in the AM and hopefully split hours will work out. Are you staying on site deluxe for extended hours opportunity?

Thanks for the good thoughts! We are on site, but they don’t have as many EH as they used to. We’re going to take the morning off entirely in hopes we can get some short waits in during the evening.

You need to enter the park and tap into your first ride/have it expire, then you can make changes to your passes.

The worst thing for us is that expiration does not seem to work. You have to actually use a LL before you can book other good returns.

 

[jennab]

Going to call it the way I see it - splitting people up is a terrible accommodation and I'm surprised more people don't complain about this. You're essentially being punished for having a disability. Couples and families without disabilities are able to stay together and wait in line together. You don't get that option anymore.

Honestly, lots of family have to split up who don’t have disabilities too. Many of those with younger children who cannot ride certain rides, or even older children who do not want to ride.

I do agree though that splitting up sucks for people who don’t want to, but the other option is letting everyone go through the LL, which can cause longer LLs and longer standby lines thus impacting other visitors and Disney's operations. Remember, you don’t HAVE to split up, you do have the option to purchase LLMP or LLSP just like people who are not disabled.

 

[Ollivier]

I do agree though that splitting up sucks for people who don’t want to, but the other option is letting everyone go through the LL, which can cause longer LLs and longer standby lines

With das you wait virtual the announced waiting time, longer than the actual waiting time. The moment you are entering the LL is later then the boarding time you would expect when entering the standby line. The standby line is not impacted. Without das you also would be in front of all the people in standby.

 

[lanejudy]

With das you wait virtual the announced waiting time, longer than the actual waiting time. The moment you are entering the LL is later then the boarding time you would expect when entering the standby line. The standby line is not impacted. Without das you also would be in front of all the people in standby.

The operational challenge with DAS is that it’s variable. WDW can plan X-# of LLMP per hour but that can’t be done with DAS. An attraction may issue 20 DAS Return Times in an hour but 100 in the next hour; added to the fact some percentage of those will return later, often much later. More guests in LL slows the standby as that queue is held to allow LL guests through. It really has nothing to do with how long the DAS guest actually waits compared to standby or where that guest would be if they entered the standby. It’s all about the planning to keep a relatively consistent # using the LL.

 

[gottalovepluto]

The worst thing for us is that expiration does not seem to work. You have to actually use a LL before you can book other good returns.

I had not heard that, only that you must enter a park before booking new stuff which puts our later in the day folks at a serious disadvantage. I would double check that with the TPAS thread as enter park + expire or use LL 1 is being widely reported.

Unfortunately the new program killed staying in hotel and stacking. You have to enter a park for day of changes and you can have a rolling 3 LLs. Once you’re underway day of you can crossover return times completely but not much during pre-booking.

 

[nalababybear]

Similar. You need to actually get into a park and use a LL to be able to select more than 1 tier one ride (and at Epcot and MK, there’s not much in Tier 2 worth using). Plus you can’t have LLs less than 50m apart. This is a tough system for people whose chronic pain prevents them from being in the parks long…after they changed DAS, I’d assumed we could stack in the AM from the hotel but I was wrong, we’ll see how it goes but we’re planning to cancel our Thanksgiving trip.

Thanks for the good thoughts! We are on site, but they don’t have as many EH as they used to. We’re going to take the morning off entirely in hopes we can get some short waits in during the evening.

The worst thing for us is that expiration does not seem to work. You have to actually use a LL before you can book other good returns.

Yeah, always thought that was just a weird absolute for using FP+ and now MPLL -- required park tap-in.

The best touring option is ropedrop with preselects, get those rides in, then exit ; rest until evening while stacking and go back in the evening to close out the MPLL and fill between short queues or other shows -- this is predicated that your party is able to ropedrop and split the day readily.

That's essentially what we do already because our son is a rooster who's up at 5AM, burns bright and burns out by 12noon - recharges and back at it 5p-10p then done for day and that's his typical MO anyways and fits split days nicely fortunately.

Lack of extended hours really sucks and surprised Disney hasn't brought them back more extensively -- seems like occupancy rates remain sufficiently high to not be bothered with the additional costs involved. EH really made a difference in the crowds overall and MK was so nice to be able to navigate without constantly bumping into folk when transiting through small world/peter pan bottleneck.

Hopefully you can give them feedback on this as a prime example where prior DAS holders trying to make new touring changes are having difficulty and a modernization of the MPLL would be good for all sorts and Disney resort folk

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Going to call it the way I see it - splitting people up is a terrible accommodation and I'm surprised more people don't complain about this. You're essentially being punished for having a disability. Couples and families without disabilities are able to stay together and wait in line together. You don't get that option anymore.

In the spirit of transparency, I'm a former DAS user who does not qualify under the new guidelines. Whenever I go to the parks it's just me and my wife. The solution of meeting at the merge point just downright sucks because we're both alone until she can get to the merge point, however long that takes. Being forced to be separated means we can't converse, joke around, hold hands, etc etc until we can reunite at a merge point. While this solution certainly accommodates the physical disability, but it's just trading one problem for another. It's not fun to go to Disney anymore if half the time we're there we're not even together and rather than an accommodation it feels like a punishment for having a disability.

I won't be renewing my annual pass once my current one expires. We used to go every week, but these new rules have really sucked the joy out of going to the parks for us.

Just posting this to vent. I've accepted that it is what it is and though I don't agree with the changes Disney has made, I've accepted they're here to stay. I'll vote with my wallet which is the only thing they understand.

Wow! You still converse, joke around, hold hands, etc with your wife?!?

I’m super jealous…guess we have been together for too long...

 

[Ollivier]

The operational challenge with DAS is that it’s variable. WDW can plan X-# of LLMP per hour but that can’t be done with DAS. An attraction may issue 20 DAS Return Times in an hour but 100 in the next hour; added to the fact some percentage of those will return later, often much later. More guests in LL slows the standby as that queue is held to allow LL guests through. It really has nothing to do with how long the DAS guest actually waits compared to standby or where that guest would be if they entered the standby. It’s all about the planning to keep a relatively consistent # using the LL.

With all the data that Disney has? They can predict the das flows, every action you do is registred. Every reservation, when you tap in, with mobile order when you eat. And people are creatures of habit.

 

[jennab]

With das you wait virtual the announced waiting time, longer than the actual waiting time. The moment you are entering the LL is later then the boarding time you would expect when entering the standby line. The standby line is not impacted. Without das you also would be in front of all the people in standby.

There were SO MANY people on DAS and they didn’t have a timeline of when they had to be back (no 1hr time window like LLMP) so they could come whenever. Honestly too many people in the LL it was affecting their paid program, people in the standby line, and other DAS holders who really can’t wait past the 20min. Our last trip we honestly had to skip a few of our return times as the LL was out the entrance and longer than our son could handle.

 

[mistysue]

Going to call it the way I see it - splitting people up is a terrible accommodation and I'm surprised more people don't complain about this. You're essentially being punished for having a disability. Couples and families without disabilities are able to stay together and wait in line together. You don't get that option anymore.

In the spirit of transparency, I'm a former DAS user who does not qualify under the new guidelines. Whenever I go to the parks it's just me and my wife. The solution of meeting at the merge point just downright sucks because we're both alone until she can get to the merge point, however long that takes. Being forced to be separated means we can't converse, joke around, hold hands, etc etc until we can reunite at a merge point. While this solution certainly accommodates the physical disability, but it's just trading one problem for another. It's not fun to go to Disney anymore if half the time we're there we're not even together and rather than an accommodation it feels like a punishment for having a disability.

I won't be renewing my annual pass once my current one expires. We used to go every week, but these new rules have really sucked the joy out of going to the parks for us.

Just posting this to vent. I've accepted that it is what it is and though I don't agree with the changes Disney has made, I've accepted they're here to stay. I'll vote with my wallet which is the only thing they understand.

This came up a couple hundred pages ago but I will rehash it - because sometimes seeing what is reasonable through a different lens can help what feels like an unfair change make sense. Sorry, super long, guess I'm chatty today.

We have crazy food issues in my family.

We can't just mobile order, and we can't just approach the counter and order like normal people. We have to do the order through a chef process, which can first involve waiting for the chef. Then we are in a line behind everyone else who ordered special, and others who didn't order special if the kitchen is busy, then we often need to go to a second location for something for a different person and start the whole process over. QS meals can take hours. If someone can't certainly wait an hour+, we have to split and send parts of our group to different restaurants. Is any of this fair? Does this mean they are punishing us for having a disability?

We need to eat, and Disney gets us food though it might not be fully convenient. Concerning DAS, Your group needs to wait and needs to get through the line. One person can't do the line itself, so they wait in a different space. Disney found a way to allow the whole party to ride together. We have to split up for our food waits, this doesn't mean I'm being punished, it means we are getting what we need in different ways for different people. Disney didn't cause us to need different accommodations.

The argument that every person with a disability that causes issues with the line should get a preferred alternative with their entire group in tow, is similar to saying when I want food I should reach the ordering counter and the entire restaurant should STOP until my group is served. Because every time a party enters the LL, the standby stops for that one slot. It wouldn't be fair for my order process to take longer, so everyone in the place might wait 20 minutes until the chef comes out. Picture the whole kitchen shuts down every time an allergy order comes in. Because I shouldn't be punished for having a disability, so they should accommodate it in the way I prefer. This means they serve my entire group from one location, and in the same time it takes for a regular order. I can even further say this is to make up for some uncertain amount of hardship faced elsewhere, additional bathroom time, time to research where I can even try to eat, etc.

The reason the analogy makes sense is that DAS gives the person with the disability to right to say "I would like to go do that later, and it will happen on demand when I want to go and with my whole family" Then everyone stuck in standby is put on hold for it at the moment they choose. Not a big deal when it's one party, but we all know it's not just one party a couple times/day coming back with a DAS. When it's getting up to 5 or 10%, it can basically shut the park down, the same way my "I will order and get food at my place in line" would do so. Everyone is always saying it's the same wait, just an alternative space - and if that's all it is, then it's ok for the accommodation to be an alternative wait for the individual who is saying they need an alternative wait.

I know it's easier to think it's not changing the line because if you weren't in LL, you would have been in standby - but it doesn't work that way unless every person with a DAS literally does nothing with that extra time it affords them. I know it also sucks to have to split up, but this is not a problem unique to families with a disability. People without disabilities get tired, get hungry, have bathroom needs, kids have meltdowns, ADULTS have meltdowns, we get crabby and sad and impatient, and just need time apart as much as we need time together. If we want to say people with disabilities are only asking for equal footing, it can't come with demands for special exceptions for everything unpleasant that happens to people at all.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

With all the data that Disney has? They can predict the das flows, every action you do is registred. Every reservation, when you tap in, with mobile order when you eat. And people are creatures of habit.

You cannot predict anything with DAS regardless of how many people qualify for it. There's no limitation to how many DAS guests per day, there's no limitation to how many attractions one can use per day either.

Disney knows a lot of data on a lot of people on a lot of things but there are things that are out of their control.

 

[Ollivier]

Our last trip we honestly had to skip a few of our return times as the LL was out the entrance and longer than our son could handle.

We have also skipped an attraction after a reservation because LL was to long for my daughter. Attraction downtimes can result in this.

 

[OurBigTrip]

With all the data that Disney has? They can predict the das flows, every action you do is registred. Every reservation, when you tap in, with mobile order when you eat. And people are creatures of habit.

First, being a creature of habit has zero to do with the unpredictability of disabilities. One of the big reasons that DAS holders say the DAS works for them where paid options don't is because DAS doesn't have a firm return time, so if they are unable to make the return time due to their disability, they can still return later.

Second, there is a set number of paid LL access for each attraction each hour, but there is no set number of DAS. Using the logic as you presented it, Disney would have to either sell LL access on an hour-by-hour basis based on how many DAS return times were issued, or take paid LL away from someone who has it because of the number of DAS issued.

Limiting who gets DAS is the best way to keep the number of people in the LLs at a reasonable level.

 

[nalababybear]

We have also skipped an attraction after a reservation because LL was to long for my daughter. Attraction downtimes can result in this.

Same. LL had become too long for several lines for our son to handle so we've been going without those rides unless really times out well. Maybe it will improve with the revamp.

If does, if he does not qualify for DAS new criteria at least MPLL may be a viable option. We have a potential trip end of this month that we're trying to decide to go or not given August temps aren't fun

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

With all the data that Disney has? They can predict the das flows, every action you do is registred. Every reservation, when you tap in, with mobile order when you eat. And people are creatures of habit.

That literally goes against why people say they need a DAS. A lot of the rationale seen on these boards is because people need a DAS because of the unpredictability of their disability.

 

[Ollivier]

That literally goes against why people say they need a DAS. A lot of the rationale seen on these boards is because people need a DAS because of the unpredictability of their disability.

Every disability has its challenges. So I don’t speak about individual situations.

If I speak of the data Disney has, I speak about big data and then they can predict things. And yes all the individual cases are different, but a company as Disney knows how to work with this data and translate them in patterns and make predictions.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Every disability has its challenges. So I don’t speak about individual situations.

If I speak of the data Disney has, I speak about big data and then they can predict things. And yes all the individual cases are different, but a company as Disney knows how to work with this data and translate them in patterns and make predictions.

Even if feasible, your solution would necessarily mean that based on DAS usage, Disney should be able to predict how many LL to sell, with the assumption that they should sell fewer LLs when DAS usage is higher. Sorry, but that's not reasonable from a business perspective, and Disney is, at its core, a business.

 

[Ollivier]

Limiting who gets DAS is the best way to keep the number of people in the LLs at a reasonable level.

And to sell more LL products. As I said a couple of times. Money is the reason why they are denying to many people for das. And yes they where very generous with das before the changes, now they are denying a lot of people that get das like accommodations in other parks.

 

[OurBigTrip]

And to sell more LL products. As I said a couple of times. Money is the reason why they are denying to many people for das. And yes they where very generous with das before the changes, now they are denying a lot of people that get das like accommodations in other parks.

Do you have evidence that they have increased the numbers of LLs to sell since the changes to DAS?

 

[Ollivier]

Do you have evidence that they have increased the numbers of LLs to sell since the changes to DAS?

Do you have evidence that das was the reason for long LL. Also no but it is clear that a lot of people are no longer Das users.
And for there top attractions it’s +/- 20€ per LL spot. Don’t tell me they don’t sell these spots.