Cuddling vs. Crying It Out

[sweetyandsour]

We are working on getting our 9 month old to fall asleep on his own. I am still nursing...and he usually falls asleep from that...then we put him to bed. Other times, we wait until he is a little sleepy and put him in bed. We put quiet music on and give him a small stuffed animal to play with. Sometimes he does really good, but other times we have to stay in the room and talk to him. We just don't pick him up. I love to cuddle with him and am not ready to let him cry himself to sleep yet. I don't like him to cry for more than 5 minutes....then we go in and try to soothe him by singing to him or holding his hand. Just remember....all babies are different!

 

[debm]

Sorry but I have to say----when did pediatricians become the experts on putting kids to bed??!! If you really think about this it is funny. They aren't behavior experts or perfect parents. They may have children but we all have different opinions on raising kids.

Also someone mentioned that they always rocked their babies to sleep although they know it "isn't the right way." What makes the right way having to go to sleep by themselves? When my oldest (now 12) was an infant and I always nursed him to sleep, nursed him at night, etc. my mother commented on how he would NEVER sleep well. But by 3-4 years old he slept so well that he would wet the bed and sleep right through. Our pediatrician told me that he was just a great sleeper and that one day he would learn to wake himself. I have 4 children that I have always nursed to sleep or rocked. I don't regret it. Do I ever wish they would just climb in bed and go to sleep at 2??? Yes! But those times are very few and I find usually I am frustrated by some other issue that occurred earlier in the day. Kids grow up so fast! Soon my youngest will be past this stage and will go to bed willingly just like his 3 older siblings do. I have never had a child fuss or whine or have issues about going to bed. Just my observation but so many of my friends that worked so hard to get their babies sleeping through the night would only discover other sleep problems as their child got older. Crying at bedtime, many trips to the potty or for drinks, stomachaches, forgetting a lovey at the neighbors house and they can't get it until morning, etc. etc. My only reason for posting this is that in case there are moms out there that WANT to rock or nurse their babies to sleep please don't be discouraged from doing so by reading the previous posts. I am a firm believer that everyone needs to do what works best for them. If it works to put your child on Daddy's chest, in a crib, near their sibling, whatever, than that is the answer for you. No flames please. Just wanted to add a different perspective for another mom out there that may be reading this. We all do what works best for us in our homes.

 

[debm]

Oh and I forgot to mention---I will never forget when my youngest was born an older friend of mine was telling me about her baby. They were told that in order to get her to be a good sleeper they must teach her to fall asleep on her own. So they started letting her cry it out. On about the 3rd night after her daughter had been crying about 15 minutes she had a funny feeling but remembered what she was told---to be strong and NOT go in yet. She said she waited a few more minutes and went into check ---not only was her baby crying still but she had thrown up and it was in her throat and coming down her face. And it hadn't just happened! She was laying in it and trying to cry as she is trying to cope with the stuff in her mouth. How horrible! This was probably the whole reason she was crying. All she was trying to tell her mom was that she needed help from choking. Needless to say that was the last night she ever let her cry without her being near her. That story had a huge impact on me at that point in my life. I've always felt like a baby cries for a reason. I would hate to be upset and have my DH shut me in a room until I could calm down. Even if I'm not ready to calm down--I want a shoulder to cry on.

 

[the kabuki]

I had the same problems with my first daughter,we walked her to get her to fall asleep. It was almost 12 years ago, but I still remember that constant walking up & down , up & down the hallway trying to get her to sleep.

DS8 did fine when he was a baby, learned from my mistake with the walking, but around 18 months he decided he would need to sleep in our bed if he woke up in the middle of the night. I would be so tired, that I'd just let him stay. Another mistake.

Finally I had enough, no one was getting any sleep so I let him cry it out, I watched the clock and he screamed for 3 1/2 hours before falling asleep, with me going in every 15 min. then 20 min. etc. The 2nd night was a bit easier, only cried for a hour (I still remember the pain of listening to this. it breaks your heart). By the 3rd night, he was sleeping through the night fine.

By the time DD3 came along, I had this down pat!!! Went to sleep on her own, no walking , coming into our bed, and from the time she stopped needing a nightime feeding about 4 months, if she woke in the night, I would go by stand by her crib, rest my hand on her back for just a few seconds, no talking, no lights, no picking up, no music, and she would fall right back to sleep. I think the no stimulation of any kind is the key. If you start talking or singing or picking up, then they have a tendency to "wake' up some more and then want mommy

 

[maddiel]

They are great sleepers exactly because you let THEM fall asleep on their own instead of waiting until they were already asleep and placing them in bed.

Suzi

I think you are underestimating the amount of influence the child's own temperment has on their ability to go to sleep easily. When I only had DD12, I knew that putting a child down when they get drowsy and letting them fall asleep worked just like the experts say it does. I was actually quite smug about it.

Karma came along in the person of DD4. I did the same things, but nothing worked. I was so sleep deprived by the time she was 18 months and we did CIO a la Ferber that I feel in retropect I was probably a danger to my children - I shouldn't have been driving.

I got two main things from Ferber's book (and I think you really should read it before you try CIO): One was that I discovered some of the night "wakings" were actually sleep terrors (which went away once the other sleep disruptions were taken care of). The other is that CIO isn't so much about crying as it is about the child learning they can fall asleep without external crutches.

DD4 still needs less sleep than an average kid her age and takes a long time to fall asleep every night. Transitions are hard for her.

M.

 

[DWhittles]

Not to hi-jack your thread, but Patrick Jazz is a brilliant name!



Rich::

Thanks! It was a tough act to follow for his brother though and we couldn't come up with ANYTHING cool so his brother is Brian Michael. Not nearly as cool but when he starts to cry, he sounds just like Ace Frehely (The guitarist from Kiss) laughing so he's been nicknamed "Ace" or "Acey" around here.

 

[georgina]

Sorry but I have to say----when did pediatricians become the experts on putting kids to bed??!! If you really think about this it is funny. They aren't behavior experts or perfect parents. They may have children but we all have different opinions on raising kids.

Also someone mentioned that they always rocked their babies to sleep although they know it "isn't the right way." What makes the right way having to go to sleep by themselves? When my oldest (now 12) was an infant and I always nursed him to sleep, nursed him at night, etc. my mother commented on how he would NEVER sleep well. But by 3-4 years old he slept so well that he would wet the bed and sleep right through. Our pediatrician told me that he was just a great sleeper and that one day he would learn to wake himself. I have 4 children that I have always nursed to sleep or rocked. I don't regret it. Do I ever wish they would just climb in bed and go to sleep at 2??? Yes! But those times are very few and I find usually I am frustrated by some other issue that occurred earlier in the day. Kids grow up so fast! Soon my youngest will be past this stage and will go to bed willingly just like his 3 older siblings do. I have never had a child fuss or whine or have issues about going to bed. Just my observation but so many of my friends that worked so hard to get their babies sleeping through the night would only discover other sleep problems as their child got older. Crying at bedtime, many trips to the potty or for drinks, stomachaches, forgetting a lovey at the neighbors house and they can't get it until morning, etc. etc. My only reason for posting this is that in case there are moms out there that WANT to rock or nurse their babies to sleep please don't be discouraged from doing so by reading the previous posts. I am a firm believer that everyone needs to do what works best for them. If it works to put your child on Daddy's chest, in a crib, near their sibling, whatever, than that is the answer for you. No flames please. Just wanted to add a different perspective for another mom out there that may be reading this. We all do what works best for us in our homes.

You said what I was thinking as I read this. I always nursed mine to sleep, if they woke up i let them come in bed with me. My oldest turned 15 today, the other two are 12 and 10 and since the age of 3 or 4 they have had no sleep problems. I could never just let a baby cry it out, if it works for you, fine, but I don't like parents being told this is what they have to do.

 

[momof2inPA]

I don't know if I would do the cry it out thing at this point. You just brought home a new baby, big brother is already frustrated, and now you're going to leave him crying in bed (while he imagines you're with the new baby). If you wanted to use that method, you should have done it before the baby came. When I had my second, my husband put son #1 to bed, but if I were you I would wait a few months to do the CIO. Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

[DWhittles]

Ya know, honestly I'd love to continue to rock PJ to sleep because I love the snuggle time we get together when I do it but when the two boys wake up at the same time and both need to be rocked at the same time, I'm a little short on both lap space and on arms. It's also hard when I'm the only person who can get him to bed and to sleep.

 

[Beth76]

LOVE the new pics!!!!!! I was going to post of pic of Quinn because I thought I had almost the same exact picture that you posted of Brian. But, turns out it was a different sleeper. I know we had that same sleeper and I could have sworn we had a picture of him in the carseat wearing it. That would have been sooooo funny!

 

[debm]

I agree, Georgina. What probably bothers me most about parenting is parents being told that there is one right way to do something and if you want to do it differently than it won't be "right." 10 years ago I had a pediatrician tell me that my child would have a hard time adjusting to solid food if I didn't give him some at 4 months. What??!! I told him that I guess he would always be drinking milkshakes then. So then this is the child that would eat anything we ate by 10 months old and fed himself with a spoon and fork at a year. Totally by himself--very neat. Same with all 4 of my kids. And oh my goodness my kids were nursed past 1 year of age. Then some nurses tried to get my to quit when my oldest was 11 months. Now I'm so glad I didn't when I find out that the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends nursing past one year. We went into the pediatrician today for a torn off toenail and joked about how he never sees my children because they are never sick. I don't know that things would be different if I did things differently but please don't tell me how to raise my children or tell me to read a book about what I *should* do. Let's just parent the way we feel from the heart. Maybe we would all be better for it. OK---off my soapbox and off to bed. It is just that it breaks my heart when I hear a young mom say that she wishes she would have followed her heart instead of her doctor's advice (when it comes to something non-medical.)

 

[Sleepy]

My DH did not realize that when DS woke in the night that patting him on the back until he could drop off to sleep would cause problems. We wound up with a DS who did not know how to "self soothe" and drop off to sleep without aid. This became a BIG problem, when DH would pat, pat, pat until DS fell asleep and DS would awaken with a "start" as soon as DH removed his hand. Suzi

We must have the same husband. Mine started the same habit and it took forever to stop. He would beg me to take over and I would tell him he was the one who started it, so he could finish it. 20 minutes is a long time to stand over a crib.

 

[Christine]

There is no "right" or "wrong" way of parenting, but when the OP comes on and says that she's exhausted, not getting sleep, and the older child is going through antics each night then, I would say, that the "cuddling" method is not working for her.

There is nothing wrong with cuddling and rocking and co-sleeping as long as you are happy with it and you feel well-rested and healthy. If you don't feel that way, then the "crying it out" method may be the "right" thing for you.

Some families/parents require a more disciplined and regimented approach to sleep. I know that as a parent who works outside the home and leaves at 5:30 a.m.--well, we cannot have any lengthy bedtime rituals, so crying it out worked very well for us.

In the end, I think 99% of kids become decent sleepers by the time they are 18--it's just how well YOU can handle it in between.

 

[lemondog]

There is no "right" or "wrong" way of parenting, but when the OP comes on and says that she's exhausted, not getting sleep, and the older child is going through antics each night then, I would say, that the "cuddling" method is not working for her.

There is nothing wrong with cuddling and rocking and co-sleeping as long as you are happy with it and you feel well-rested and healthy. If you don't feel that way, then the "crying it out" method may be the "right" thing for you.

Some families/parents require a more disciplined and regimented approach to sleep. I know that as a parent who works outside the home and leaves at 5:30 a.m.--well, we cannot have any lengthy bedtime rituals, so crying it out worked very well for us.

In the end, I think 99% of kids become decent sleepers by the time they are 18--it's just how well YOU can handle it in between.

Very well said Christine.

OP, do NOT feel guilty for your choices. Just because some women don't agree with CIO does not make it "wrong" just like rocking to sleep is not wrong for some people.

I completely hear you with the exhaustion. I had a 2yo and twins and let me tell you, rocking all 3 of them to sleep just WAS NOT AN OPTION, lol. So I did employ the CIO method, on the advice of my pediatrician who is a brilliant man and whose advice I wholeheartedly agree with, and my children are no worse for the wear and sleep like angels. In fact, both my twins became much happier babies once they were getting a good night's sleep, and as a result, I became a much happier, well-rested mama! Good luck!

 

[Karel]

Very well said Christine. OP, do NOT feel guilty for your choices. Just because some women don't agree with CIO does not make it "wrong" just like rocking to sleep is not wrong for some people. I completely hear you with the exhaustion. I had a 2yo and twins and let me tell you, rocking all 3 of them to sleep just WAS NOT AN OPTION, lol. So I did employ the CIO method, on the advice of my pediatrician who is a brilliant man and whose advice I wholeheartedly agree with, and my children are no worse for the wear and sleep like angels. In fact, both my twins became much happier babies once they were getting a good night's sleep, and as a result, I became a much happier, well-rested mama! Good luck!

Agreed. I had three babies within three years time and there is no way I could have rocked them all to sleep. Nor did I wish to. I would have gone insane if I had waited till my kids were 3 or 4 to sleep in their own beds with a miminum of bed time fuss.

And I think crying it out is an extreme measure that usually is not needed either if you start your baby out early enough. The older they are, the harder it is and the more they are going to cry. You're changing a habit, a habit that your child probably really does not want to change.

Kids cry. A lot of kids cry to get their own way. Some kids cry 'cause they just dont' know what else to do.

Sometimes you have to let them.

 

[va32h]

Oldest dd was a beautiful sleeper until we moved her to a bed at 18 months. Big mistake. Way too soon for her. She wouldn't stay in bed, didn't ever want to go to bed (still doesn't, 8 years later!).

I would tuck her in, then sit next to her bed til she fell asleep. No singing, talking, cuddling, just sat there. If she talked to me, I'd just say "It's time to go to sleep sweetie" or something like that, in a neutral tone. Since she used a nightlight, sometimes I'd bring a book or magazine in there with me. Gradually I moved toward the door, then the hallway, unitl I could finally just send her to bed and know that she would stay there quietly, until she fell asleep.

My other two are great sleepers. It's probably too late for you now, but with my youngest two, I have always had a white noise machine or fan on at bedtime. It comforted them as newborns, and now it acts as their "signal" to go to sleep. They will both fall asleep within minutes of going to bed, and wake up instantly when I turn the fan off.

 

[disneygals]

If you decide to do this, I'm going to suggest that you keep a quick written diary of every night. After a while, the nights will begin to blur and you will not remember the details to see if progress will be made.

You may get lucky and solve the problem in days or you could be like me. With my middle dd it took a month of varying success to actually have her sleep through the night. She was about 15 months. After about 2 weeks of sleeping thru, she got sick and the cycle started again. We didn't have the heart to do it again, so she slept in our bed on and off again til age 5.

Some of sleep problems can be "trained" or taught as babies, but kids are just different. My third dd had very few sleep issues and I did nothing different with her.

 

[debm]

I have always had a white noise machine or fan on at bedtime. It comforted them as newborns, and now it acts as their "signal" to go to sleep. They will both fall asleep within minutes of going to bed, and wake up instantly when I turn the fan off.

My sister has used one of these white noise machines with her 2 kids. Has to bring it with her wherever they go. They can't sleep without it. House has to be absolutely quiet--not a peep---or they wake up. Have to get 2 hotel rooms at WDW just for the 4 of them--sons are 1 and 3. Sure they lay down and go to sleep on their own but there is always a fuss even at their age. I'm just pointing out that how can this be "better." I'm the one that nurses my kids to sleep and then lays them down to bed, no crying, normal activity in the house, sleep soundly, can go and travel anywhere with them. YET our mom is upset by the fact that they don't go to bed on their own. Seems like it is much easier in our household. Oh and if my sister's kids don't have their stuffed animal. You can forget sleep! If I'm not there for my kids than they just snuggle with Daddy. Is it difficult at times? Am I tired? Do I want more time to myself? Yes but I'm a mom. 99% of the time it is fine. Someday I will have all the time I need. I think the OP just needs some time to herself to recoup. Think about what you want for your kids in the end. How do you want them to remember or feel about their preschool years? We can make all the excuses for ourselves that we want--I have 3 young kids, I'm exhausted so I'm not a good mom, I can't do it all......but then as adults we need to step back and figure out what we can do to help the entire family. I don't think it should just be about Me Me Me. How does your child feel in all this?? The one person they love most and are used to snuggling with now says they must go in another room by themselves and be away from her. Gosh if after a few years my DH said he would no longer sleep in bed with me or hold me if I wanted him too I'd be pretty upset and suspicioius. Especially if there was a new woman around! Just food for thought!

 

[auntpolly]

There is no "right" or "wrong" way of parenting, .

These discussions aren't very productive if people really believe this. I mean, people make mistakes - even parents! (I know, it's shocking but they do!!! )

There are debates on different ways of parenting, but I think you guys should be able to say if you think something is "right" or "wrong".

I think it's wrong to let a baby cry it out, but for a toddler, a little crying can't hurt and probably is needed. JMO, of course, but I'm not afraid to say "right and wrong".

 

[Christine]

These discussions aren't very productive if people really believe this. I mean, people make mistakes - even parents! (I know, it's shocking but they do!!! )

There are debates on different ways of parenting, but I think you guys should be able to say if you think something is "right" or "wrong".

I think it's wrong to let a baby cry it out, but for a toddler, a little crying can't hurt and probably is needed. JMO, of course, but I'm not afraid to say "right and wrong".

The only problem I have with this is when the OP comes on and says she's got an 17 month old child (toddler not baby) who can't get to sleep without rocking and cuddling. She's tired, she's worn out, etc. She WANTS to do the "cry it out" method and is asking for feedback from parents who have actually done the cry it out method. She wants to know how long their kids cried, how long it took, etc. She clearly wants to try this. Of course, it then turns into a debate (fortunately it is a nice one) of how you don't need to let them cry it out, how you can continue rocking, how some consider it cruel, and so on.

I can understand debating whether it's right or not (I love a good debate as much as the next person) but in this case, the OP clearly wants to try the cry it out method and has asked for help from others who have used the method. She doesn't seem to be on the fence about it and I'm sure she's been through all the guilt associated with trying this. Personally, I don't think it's helpful to make someone feel bad about what they need to do to make their family work. It's akin to posting to a thread about using baby formula and saying "well, that's all fine and good but breastfeeding is best, you know?"

For your family, crying it out may be the wrong thing and it truly may be detrimental to your child's personality. For my family, it was the best thing I ever did and we were all happy, healthier, and much less tired after one week of some tension in using the method.