C's get degrees but

[Robinrs]

Her gift had BETTER be in the academic realm because we've already confirmed, it's nothing to do with athletics or the arts. Poor girl! She has fun dancing but man, oh, man... she is not gifted with grace. The kid couldn't even jump until she was 3.5!

But to get back on track, one doesn't have to be gifted to do well in school, nor do they have to be incredibly intelligent. Parent involvement and the degree to which parents value education plays a very large role.

Do not confused "gifted" with "gift". "Gifted" is a term given by the educational institutions, gifts are spiritual and are inborn within each person. Gifts are easy and come with no effort. My Mom used to say "you can see it in the nursery".

All the parent involvement in the world and all the value of education in the universe cannot make an uninterested and non involved child a genius. My parents had three children, three completely DIFFERENT children. I admired my Mom so much because she understood and valued all three of us for who we were. It was not an easy job but that was HER gift.

All I'm saying to you is what all the others are saying, listen to the results of what can happen if you expect TOO much. Nothing is wrong with wanting the best, we all want that. Just make sure you support more than push, influence more than control, uplift more than demand. The results will be much more positive.

 

[Cindy B]

I'm all about my kids-- both my own 3 and those I teach-- doing well. But I simply can NOT understand the urgency that requires a 14 year old to be up even till midnight doing homework.

What I tell my kids is this: there are no math emergencies. I expect you to spend 20 minutes per night seriously doing your math homework-- no Xbox, no Ipad, no phone, no fridge. If, at the end of those 20 minutes, you're not done, then close your book. If you're the only one who struggled, I expect to see you at extra help tomorrow. But if everyone struggled, then either I assigned too much or I didn't explain it right, and I'll fix it tomorrow.

That Asian term is very popular here. (Northeast) Midnight isn't so bad- compared to 3 am! Some of my daughters friends still go to the first high school and they are inundated with just busy work. They spend weekends doing school work, limited activities, and feel unworthy if they aren't accepted to Harvard, Yale or Princeton. For example, someone got accepted to Rutgers and rejected for Princeton. Rutgers program was excellent - but not Princeton- so it was unworthy.

 

[princesspiglet]

I'm lucky I even graduated from college, let alone got any A's whatsoever. I totally lacked any motivation or ambition and college and all I did was party. However, after 5 years I managed to graduate with 2 degrees. One BFA in Theater Production and one BA in Communications. I have been working in the communications field since graduation- 1996- and not one single employer has asked for my transcripts. I worked for 4 years for CBS in Pittsburgh and no one cared what my grades were. I make good money, I love what I do and I am good at it, but I was never good at tests.

 

[NotUrsula]

I was only asked for transcripts ONCE, and it was (very oddly, IMO), three jobs into my career. The oddest thing about it was that even though I had already gotten the offer, the director wanted not just my graduate school transcripts, but my undergrad as well, which makes NO sense.

The truth is that except in some very specific work situations, no one cares what your grades were past your first job, and where you got your undergraduate degree doesn't much matter, either. Yeah, an Ivy might look impressive on a resume and help you get an interview, but if you blow the interview you're still not getting the job. The WORK resume, cover letter and interview count the most.

As to straight A's in grade/HS, well, they are nice to see, and I reward A's for the quarter with cold hard cash, but I certainly won't chide my kids if they don't get them. I'll take anything down to a D in a given class, but I do want the GPA above 3.0. College admissions get a bit hairy when you slip below that line. (F's are a different story. My kids go to private school b/c our public schools are largely sub-par, and I'm darned if I'm going to pay for the same HS class twice without REALLY tearing a strip off of someone's hide. Even if you struggle, you should be able to at least manage a D if you are actually putting in some effort.)

 

[minkydog]

Interestingly, the only job which has ever requested transcripts is the one I have now. I'm an RN. I gave them my current license but they wanted to see all my grades from nursing school and college. I was an A/B student, but still...I graduated nursing school in 1977 and got my BS in education in 1981.

 

[dAnconia]

Do they land jobs, yes. My first job out of college was very well paid with a fast track to advancement. In hiring for the program they cared more about personality and athletics as they felt that was the best predictor of success in the field.

However, although people change, I personally can't understand not wanting to perform your best at any time. So when I am hiring a C student would not get the job.

 

[texasteacher35]

My day would have been fine, without flashing back to running from WC Hogg to a class at the top of RLM only to find one or more escalators out of service! Thanks!!!!

LOL that is the type of thing that would happen to me...for sure! LOLOLOL

 

[krcit]

Do not confused "gifted" with "gift". "Gifted" is a term given by the educational institutions, gifts are spiritual and are inborn within each person. Gifts are easy and come with no effort. My Mom used to say "you can see it in the nursery".

All the parent involvement in the world and all the value of education in the universe cannot make an uninterested and non involved child a genius. My parents had three children, three completely DIFFERENT children. I admired my Mom so much because she understood and valued all three of us for who we were. It was not an easy job but that was HER gift.

All I'm saying to you is what all the others are saying, listen to the results of what can happen if you expect TOO much. Nothing is wrong with wanting the best, we all want that. Just make sure you support more than push, influence more than control, uplift more than demand. The results will be much more positive.

Exactly Robin. I have 3 kids, all very different. My older 2 get high honor roll , my youngest will never. No matter how much I am involved. He has a learning disability and struggles but he works so hard. I will cheer his 75's and 80's as much as the girls' 95's and 98's.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Do not confused "gifted" with "gift". "Gifted" is a term given by the educational institutions, gifts are spiritual and are inborn within each person. Gifts are easy and come with no effort. My Mom used to say "you can see it in the nursery".

All the parent involvement in the world and all the value of education in the universe cannot make an uninterested and non involved child a genius. My parents had three children, three completely DIFFERENT children. I admired my Mom so much because she understood and valued all three of us for who we were. It was not an easy job but that was HER gift.

All I'm saying to you is what all the others are saying, listen to the results of what can happen if you expect TOO much. Nothing is wrong with wanting the best, we all want that. Just make sure you support more than push, influence more than control, uplift more than demand. The results will be much more positive.

Very well said

 

[Becky2005]

I should be banned from the Dis.

Both my husband and I are teachers, we have 3 kids, and NONE of them is a straight A student.
.

Go figure.

I'm thinking the same thing....although we aren't teachers.

The biggest thing that I remember from schooling is:

A - everything I learned is now incorrect anyway (especially in Science) -- if they tested me now, I would flunk. At least my son's high school Science teacher admitted it, he tells them upfront 50% of what I'm going to teach you will be obsolete in a few yeares, the problem is I don't know which 50% it is.

B. I should be a complete failure in life & who knows maybe I am depending on what definition you are using. I "passed" Geometry with a D by the skin of my teeth in 10th grade and at that time it wasn't even a required class! We only had to have 1 year of Math to graduate but I wanted to take "College Algebra" as it was called back then, so had to torture myself with Geometry. I worked HARD for that D and to this day is the only grade I remember.

I also remember they suggested I go to a basic math class when I was in college and this was before the requirement (it was the first year they were phasing in assessment tests as it was community college & I had a full tuition academic scholarship to go there! LOL!), it was just a suggestion that year but the following year was going to be a requirement. I told them I could handle the Business Math vs. basic...ended up not only with an A in the class but was paid to tutor antoher person in the class.

My kids struggle in school...I don't have a single one that will be an A/B student without modifications. If they are trying, I really don't care what their grade is....especially since every single school has a different grading scale, for that matter even classes within the school have different grading scales. If you get 91 in one class that could be an A but if you get a 91 in another class, that could be a B -- but they are the identical score. I ALWAYS remember my D and how hard I worked to get it and the fact that I was thrilled I didn't actually flunk the class.

 

[Aliceacc]

Exactly.

And a word about some of those C students:

While I know it's a HUGE generalization, some of them would make far better employees than some of the A's. Some A students, and honor students in particular, can be so very centered on themselves: THEIR grades and THEIR averages and THEIR rank in class. On the other hand, some of the B and C students are able to take the focus off themselves and place it on the material. They tend to enjoy learning, and to be open to suggestions. I'm not saying anything about what happens across the board, simply that some of those students who are less focused on the drive to be perfect can bring something to the table that their more academically gifted peers don't. Each of us has talents and gifts, and while academics are very important, they're not the only thing that matters in an employee.

 

[eliza61]

Yes, in my area an a- is considered the Asian F. For many students and parents the only acceptable grade is an A+ not an A- or an A.
I am a teacher and I tutor. I know of my students that treat a 100 as the only acceptable grade. If they miss one question and get a 95 or 98, they are devastated. My daughters former public high school had very high standards- if you got a C in an advanced class- students were recommended to take a remedial level or referred to the special education department.

For example, my daughter would work until 3 am most nights as a high school freshman. She studied her butt off, she was up until 3 am most nights. One class, 9th grade US History, was her challenge. This course was doing college level work with 14 and 15 year olds! (I graduated college recently so I can verify) She got a high C but still a C in the course. The teacher recommended her for the remedial course level for sophomore year- this switch is usually only recommended if you have D's or F's, or if you have a documented need-such as a 504 or IEP. This remedial course would really hurt her college chances.
I had an intense conversation with the guidance counselor about this how this pressure is hurting 14/15 year olds. My daughter transferred to another high school in our district (we have school choice) and she is doing fantastic. She was honor roll the entire school year, is only up until midnight for school work, completed a dual credit college/high school course and got academic awards.

Her first high school pushed IVY league all the time. If a student wasn't going to Yale, Harvard or Princeton, the students didn't feel they were worth it! Her new high school is rigorous, but not overtly.

LOL. and I worked part time as a community college guidance counselor and I can tellyou what happens to these pressured girls.

I get them in my guidance office, at best they have eating issues from the pressure and inability to cope, I get many who turn to drinking and drugs as coping mechanism. Many have absolutely abysmal social skills so now they are thrust into a college world where no one is as impressed with their A+'s as they are or as their high school was. At worst we get some who have suicidal thoughts.

lastly, rarely does that type of thing impress us here at my job. As I said they have horrible people interaction skills so often they are the managers and chemist who have charges brought up on them by their workers. They usually are not very well rounded so they tend to get trapped in their position with no advancement. We try to avoid them in hiring as much as we can.

whenever your self worth is determined by how much cash you make, how you look or if you get an A, you can best believe there often times are issues down the road

 

[tinkerbellandeeyor]

Exactly.

And a word about some of those C students:

While I know it's a HUGE generalization, some of them would make far better employees than some of the A's. Some A students, and honor students in particular, can be so very centered on themselves: THEIR grades and THEIR averages and THEIR rank in class. On the other hand, some of the B and C students are able to take the focus off themselves and place it on the material. They tend to enjoy learning, and to be open to suggestions. I'm not saying anything about what happens across the board, simply that some of those students who are less focused on the drive to be perfect can bring something to the table that their more academically gifted peers don't. Each of us has talents and gifts, and while academics are very important, they're not the only thing that matters in an employee.

Very good point

 

[taitai]

When I used to recruiting for work (strategic consulting), we would always do a first cut based on transcript. The same when I was applying for jobs out of business school or undergrad. There was intense competition for these jobs (fun, challenging, high pay) and so an easy first way to cull the resumes was grades.

I am not sure that a C student would have survived very long in this type of career. It involved long hours, hard work and an intense focus. If a student could not do that in undergrad, there is no reason to believe he or she could do it in the work force. Also, not sure he or she could keep up with colleagues who had a better mastery of the subjects at hand as evidenced by their grades.

I am sure not all jobs require transcripts but as competition for jobs, especially high paying ones, continues to increase, transcripts are going to be more and more necessary. Especially for those just coming out of college with no real work experience to rely upon.

 

[eliza61]

When I used to recruiting for work (strategic consulting), we would always do a first cut based on transcript. The same when I was applying for jobs out of business school or undergrad. There was intense competition for these jobs (fun, challenging, high pay) and so an easy first way to cull the resumes was grades.

I am not sure that a C student would have survived very long in this type of career. It involved long hours, hard work and an intense focus. If a student could not do that in undergrad, there is no reason to believe he or she could do it in the work force. Also, not sure he or she could keep up with colleagues who had a better mastery of the subjects at hand as evidenced by their grades.

I am sure not all jobs require transcripts but as competition for jobs, especially high paying ones, continues to increase, transcripts are going to be more and more necessary. Especially for those just coming out of college with no real work experience to rely upon.

Oh I totally disagree. I am a totally different individual now than I was in college. You believe you're the same at 42 that you are at 22?
My focus, concentration, dedication and ambition are eons better in my career than it is in school

 

[CupcakeKelly]

When I used to recruiting for work (strategic consulting), we would always do a first cut based on transcript. The same when I was applying for jobs out of business school or undergrad. There was intense competition for these jobs (fun, challenging, high pay) and so an easy first way to cull the resumes was grades.

I am not sure that a C student would have survived very long in this type of career. It involved long hours, hard work and an intense focus. If a student could not do that in undergrad, there is no reason to believe he or she could do it in the work force. Also, not sure he or she could keep up with colleagues who had a better mastery of the subjects at hand as evidenced by their grades.

I am sure not all jobs require transcripts but as competition for jobs, especially high paying ones, continues to increase, transcripts are going to be more and more necessary. Especially for those just coming out of college with no real work experience to rely upon.

I'm going to have to disagree with you a little bit on the part that I bolded. Getting high grades doesn't necessarily mean that you have mastered the class or the material, it means that you have figured out how to perform well on the assessments given in the class. Tests can be straight a regurgitation of the textbook, requiring no actual understanding of the material.

I tutor high school math in my free time, and I have these kids that are spitting out formulas and facts all over the place with absolutely ZERO understanding of what they're saying. They're like little robots and they freak out a little when I ask them to explain why they are doing something or what it actually means.

 

[NHdisneylover]

A lot can also depend on if the work environment is truly similar to a school/learning environment or not. Many who thrive in the one will not necessarily do so in the other, and vice versa.

My husband sees this often in his job. Many of the newer hires are the "best and the brightest" with high GPAs and PhDs. MANY of those are marginal, at best, at developing new ideas from scratch (no "right" answers to be had and learned), working as a team, handling the demands of constant travel, dealing with the huge variety of cultures they nee to work with to get along in a very international company, etc. SOME manage that great--but not most.

A lot more of the "mediocre" students have turned out to be really great employees who can handle the travel, the cultures, the people and the "thinking out of the box" that the company is looking for in their employees.

HR is still looking at "paper pedigrees" in hiring too often--they are slow to learn but the ones who survive the first 6 months probationary period and make it into long term and good employment are as often as not the ones who are less stellar on paper.

 

[taitai]

I'm going to have to disagree with you a little bit on the part that I bolded. Getting high grades doesn't necessarily mean that you have mastered the class or the material, it means that you have figured out how to perform well on the assessments given in the class. Tests can be straight a regurgitation of the textbook, requiring no actual understanding of the material.

I tutor high school math in my free time, and I have these kids that are spitting out formulas and facts all over the place with absolutely ZERO understanding of what they're saying. They're like little robots and they freak out a little when I ask them to explain why they are doing something or what it actually means.

It has been a while since I was in college or grad school but I do not recall a single test that was straight regurgitation of what was taught. Often, they were papers as finals or essay questions. A scenerio was described and you needed to apply what you learned in the class to interpret or solve for the issue at hand.

It is all academic as a C average resume would never have reached my desk for review. They would immediately be discarded. I have no problems with that. I want the kids out of college who got As in Finance to be creating the financial models for my clients and the ones that got As in English to be writing my decks and copy. Not the C students.

For management/executive positions, all top employers (Apple, Google, Goldman, Mckinsey, Disney, GE, etc.) are looking for the A students and not considering the Cs. While their may be some exceptions to the rule (never discount the power of a KILLER cover letter), that is the way things work.

 

[declansdad]

It has been a while since I was in college or grad school but I do not recall a single test that was straight regurgitation of what was taught. Often, they were papers as finals or essay questions. A scenerio was described and you needed to apply what you learned in the class to interpret or solve for the issue at hand.

It is all academic as a C average resume would never have reached my desk for review. They would immediately be discarded. I have no problems with that. I want the kids out of college who got As in Finance to be creating the financial models for my clients and the ones that got As in English to be writing my decks and copy. Not the C students.

For management/executive positions, all top employers (Apple, Google, Goldman, Mckinsey, Disney, GE, etc.) are looking for the A students and not considering the Cs. While their may be some exceptions to the rule (never discount the power of a KILLER cover letter), that is the way things work.

You have a very narrow view as to what makes a great employee. As for your last statement, I highly doubt companies such Apple, Google and Disney are only looking for the A students.

 

[CupcakeKelly]

It has been a while since I was in college or grad school but I do not recall a single test that was straight regurgitation of what was taught. Often, they were papers as finals or essay questions. A scenerio was described and you needed to apply what you learned in the class to interpret or solve for the issue at hand.

It is all academic as a C average resume would never have reached my desk for review. They would immediately be discarded. I have no problems with that. I want the kids out of college who got As in Finance to be creating the financial models for my clients and the ones that got As in English to be writing my decks and copy. Not the C students.

For management/executive positions, all top employers (Apple, Google, Goldman, Mckinsey, Disney, GE, etc.) are looking for the A students and not considering the Cs. While their may be some exceptions to the rule (never discount the power of a KILLER cover letter), that is the way things work.

Just using one of your examples, the SVP of People Operations at Google has actually come out as saying that for people right out of school, there is only a slight correlation between job performance and GPA. A couple years out of school there is zero correlation between the two.

Here's a link to the interview, really interesting read on how companies are starting to reevaluate the hiring process

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/20/b...not-be-such-a-big-deal.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0