C's get degrees but

[MrsPete]

Two points that haven't been brought up yet:

These days many students aren't officially "in their majors" 'til they're juniors. My daughter is one of these students. She tells people she's a nursing major, but the truth is she's kind of nothing at this moment . . . with the intention of becoming a nursing major. The truth is that at the end of her sophomore year all the students who are now claiming to be nursing majors will apply to the program, and 40 students will be admitted. Why 40? Because the hospital (and other medical facilities) with whom her university works can only support 40 juniors /40 seniors, and they don't want to take a student into their program if they won't be able to provide the appropriate experiences to help them finish their degrees. It wouldn't be a favor to take in 100 and not have enough patients in need of care.

They choose the 40 who'll become nursing majors based upon three criteria: Grades, score on a standardized test that she hasn't yet taken, and an essay. Do you think the people who have a transcript full of Cs have a shot?

This also shoots a hole in that silly question, "What do you call the guy who graduated last in his medical class? The answer: Doctor. The implication is that the guy who graduated last is rewarded in the same way as the top students, but the reality is that the guy who made a bunch of Cs didn't make it into school.

I don't know how many programs do this, but my younger daughter's considering a business degree, and I know that they have the exact same system: You can't really be a business major 'til you're a junior, and then you're competing against your classmates for a spot.

Second point:

The "you'll never get into grad school with a bunch of Cs" idea is absolutely correct, but I don't think it's all that big a point. Yes, it's true, but in spite of "everyone" here on the DIS boards discussing grad school, it's not a reality for the majority of Americans. Nationwide only about 8% of all Americans have a masters degree. You could argue that the number is increasing, and you might be right, but it isn't going to jump from 8% to a majority anytime soon.

 

[Minnesota!]

I can say for both mine and my husband's fields, transcripts have never been asked for (Graphic Design, Industrial Management). I just asked a friend in HR and she said they don't look at them, either. A degree is a degree, IMO.

 

[snarlingcoyote]

I think, as many posters here have noted, it depends on your degree and area of specialty.

If it's a popular field with a great deal of competition, college GPAs may figure into the equation. If it is a field with scarcity, probably not so much. The fact that you managed to graduate at all in some fields says you're competent, no matter what your GPA is.

There are a LOT of people graduating with finance, accounting, marketing and management type degrees. I would expect employers to check their GPAs just as a weeding method. For more esoteric degrees where there is higher demand grades are not going to be important because if you graduated, you're competent and they're desparate - fields like petroleum and nuclear engineering, for example. (These are two good fields to go into if you want to be able to comfortably support a family on one income while the other half of the couple is a SAHP, btw.)

 

[Minnesota!]

No I'm saying that there is more to how you did in school. If you finish a degree you have shown yourself capable of understanding and learning. An employer will also want to see what other skills you bring to the table.

This is how I feel, as well. A degree means you put forth the effort - whether it's an "A" effort or "C" effort. A degree isn't the only thing that a person can bring to a company.

 

[Aliceacc]

There are so many variables that it's impossible to accurately generalize.

I teach high school math. I've seen more than my share of hardworking kids who do everything right, but still struggle. For those kids, a C in my class is an accomplishment. And the letters of reccommendation I finally finished last week reflect that. One of my strongest letters was for a kid who achieved only mediocre grades in my class. But those mediocred grades reflected an effort that most of her classmates don't begin to imitate.

I've also seen kids with a good head for math, for whom a B is a reflection of little to no effort. Those kids got a less enthusiastic letter, with more of an emphasis on the grade than on the effort behind it.

The two go hand in hand: the grades must be accompanied by the effort. There is a certain body of knowledge that's required for many jobs. That's where the grades come in. But there's also a learning curve in most jobs-- that's where the effort comes in.

The people who run the world are the ones willing to put in the effort and imagination and time and work to be the best at what they do. It's not as cut and dried as A's vs C's.

 

[soccerdad72]

My company (Big 4 accounting firm) recruits 80% of our staff from college campuses. You won't even pass the 'resume drop' -ie the initial screening- without at least a 3.5 GPA unless there is some extenuating circumstance. For the 20% of experienced hires,they'd maybe go as low as a 3.0 but certainly nowhere near a C.

My wife does a lot of the hiring for her (Big 4) office and generally, that's true, but I know there are times when she's hired the 3.2 or 3.3 student over the 3.9 one based on a number of other factors, including the interview. The 3.2 resume has to have something on it, though, that catches their eye, while the higher GPA's tend to get interviews most of the time.

A C or two isn't a complete job killer, but a C-average student will struggle to get their foot in the door most places, IMO.

 

[declansdad]

There are so many variables that it's impossible to accurately generalize.

I teach high school math. I've seen more than my share of hardworking kids who do everything right, but still struggle. For those kids, a C in my class is an accomplishment. And the letters of reccommendation I finally finished last week reflect that. One of my strongest letters was for a kid who achieved only mediocre grades in my class. But those mediocred grades reflected an effort that most of her classmates don't begin to imitate.

I've also seen kids with a good head for math, for whom a B is a reflection of little to no effort. Those kids got a less enthusiastic letter, with more of an emphasis on the grade than on the effort behind it.

The two go hand in hand: the grades must be accompanied by the effort. There is a certain body of knowledge that's required for many jobs. That's where the grades come in. But there's also a learning curve in most jobs-- that's where the effort comes in.

The people who run the world are the ones willing to put in the effort and imagination and time and work to be the best at what they do. It's not as cut and dried as A's vs C's.

Well said!

 

[CupcakeKelly]

My wife does a lot of the hiring for her (Big 4) office and generally, that's true, but I know there are times when she's hired the 3.2 or 3.3 student over the 3.9 one based on a number of other factors, including the interview. The 3.2 resume has to have something on it, though, that catches their eye, while the higher GPA's tend to get interviews most of the time.

A C or two isn't a complete job killer, but a C-average student will struggle to get their foot in the door most places, IMO.

I agree with you, I worked for a Big 4 firm right out of college, and my GPA was around 3.3. One of the main reasons I was hired was because I was working full time during the day and going to school full time at night, and they were impressed with that. Since I worked full time in an office environment (copier sales agency) while I was in school, I acquired a skill that was worth more than any skill I learned in college : how to fix a jammed copier/printer at 10 pm on April 14th

 

[Senor_Jorge]

I own a company (currently 14 employees) in the IT space. We do everything from writing custom code, design and install small to medium size networks, security, and consulting that includes some of the larger data centers in the US. I started small, and have grown carefully.

A degree counts but isn't a requirement. I will ask for transcripts. I can learn a lot about a candidate, beyond GPA. I have a valued employee that took 9 years to graduate, and there was a noticeable decline in GPA a year and a half in. I asked and learned that his mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. That explanation, told me a lot about his character. The most important is that he offered an explanation and not an excuse. Medical care took a heavy financial and emotional toll on the entire family. He worked his way to the end, and did whatever he could for his family in many different ways. He completes his tasks on time or sooner, pitches in to help others when needed. He's without question the best hire I've ever made.

I've had academic rock stars with stellar transcripts struggle when they've been given their first challenge that tests their abilities and takes them out of their comfort zone. A life full of success isn't always the best preparation for entering the workplace. I've also had employees that really shined and grew as professionals after being challenged for the first time.

Transcripts are just a tool for me to learn about the individual. Sometimes they are valuable, and other times worthless. It all depends on the individual.

 

[Senor_Jorge]

That's good that you worked extra hard to get those classes' grades higher. I was a math teacher and have my math degree from University of Texas...I understand struggling with classes that you are not interested in or that you find difficult- and some professors can be totally unjust in their grading techniques. For sure.

My day would have been fine, without flashing back to running from WC Hogg to a class at the top of RLM only to find one or more escalators out of service! Thanks!!!!

 

[eliza61]

Lol, the only time I had to show transcripts was when I went to work for the college where I had received my degree.

LOL.

I've work for 4 major fortune 50 companies. NOT once in 33 years of working has anyone asked for my transcripts.

 

[Robinrs]

LOL.

I've work for 4 major fortune 50 companies. NOT once in 33 years of working has anyone asked for my transcripts.

I had to write my college for a copy of my transcript this year for the first time in my working life and I graduated in 1977!! I applied for a part time job at my son's college!

It was quite eye opening, my son was able to see what kind of student I was back in the 70s when he was just going to college in his first year.

LUCKY for him I didn't get the job (I actually did it to scare the bejeezus out of him) but it was interesting that I had to dig up the ol' transcript after being in the work world for so many years.

FYI, I've hired in the broadcast business for years and have never asked for or cared to know what kind of grades a person received In this business it's what and WHO you know. Networking is the key to getting a job and your reputation precedes you. Internships and where you worked is what made or broke you and opened or closed a door. Every business has it's requirements, there are never ALWAYS and NEVERS in business. Most people have blinders on because they've only been in one business all of their working lives and they think it's the way all businesses do business. It varies from occupation to occupation, sometimes from city to city and from state to state.

 

[timmac]

Long and short of it, I think is that it depends. Upon the career field, the company, perhaps even the person doing the hiring. Some people will care more than others, some companies may have policies in place differently than others, and so on.

It's also important to distinguish just barely getting all C's from someone with a C or two here and there among mostly A's and B's... particularly if the weak grade was in something outside the relevant field of study, or was a particularly challenging course, for instance.

 

[DisneyCowgirl]

Employers don't ask for transcripts.

Although, if you are in a field that requires letters of recommendations, better grades would help, I think.

Employers who are hiring new college graduates typically do. For experienced hires, typically they will not.

 

[soccerdad72]

It's also important to distinguish just barely getting all C's from someone with a C or two here and there among mostly A's and B's... particularly if the weak grade was in something outside the relevant field of study, or was a particularly challenging course, for instance.

Employers who are hiring new college graduates typically do. For experienced hires, typically they will not.

Both very good points, IMO.

 

[DisneyCowgirl]

This is how I feel, as well. A degree means you put forth the effort - whether it's an "A" effort or "C" effort. A degree isn't the only thing that a person can bring to a company.

I would like to agree with you, but my experience has been that for the 22-year-old college graduate, the transcript is one of the only things to go by. The Student Body President exhibits strong leadership skills, it's true, but if he/she made a "C" in intermediate accounting, he/she is probably not going to make it in a Big 4 accounting firm.

 

[SydSim]

We're not C's & D's kind of people... we're the type of people that will ask our daughters why the didn't get ALL A's when they bring home report cards with one B on it.

But we're not the type of people to accept mediocrity, especially when rooted

My mother uses to have the same attitude towards my report card.

It pissed me off and always made me think that whatever I got just wasn't good enough.

 

[NewmanFamily6]

I am a nurse in oncology and have never been asked for my transcript:confused I did have to provide a copy of my degree though. DH has a doctorate in pharmacy and no where ever asked for his transcripts either but did require copies of undergraduate and graduate degree

 

[texasteacher35]

My mother uses to have the same attitude towards my report card.

It pissed me off and always made me think that whatever I got just wasn't good enough.

If I know my child is capable of A's, why would I want less?? I want the best for my kids- not a lower standard. I am not asking too much, I am asking them to do their best. That's all. I never ask a blanket question- "Why didn't you get all A's?" My daughter would say, "I didn't do that well on that test." And I would say, "Try to do better next time." I can tell when my kid is bluffing and when she genuinely tried hard. So, I actually ask for more feedback from my kids about what they struggled with, and not just the idea to MAKE BETTER GRADES. Lol

 

[mom2rtk]

My mother uses to have the same attitude towards my report card.

It pissed me off and always made me think that whatever I got just wasn't good enough.

My oldest might say the same thing. Because he refused to listen to our reasoning when we questioned the B's he got. We knew he never did homework in high school. Never brought a book home. If we knew he was studying and got B's, or even C's it would be fine. But since he didn't study, we did ask him about his B's and pointed out that a little study time outside school might get him an A.

It irritated me that his High School counselor basically agreed with him saying that we should be happy with B's and not question him. She had no idea how much homework and studying he did or didn't do.

It's about performing to one's full potential. If your parents saw you studying and working hard, then they should have left you alone.