Covid And The Rest of Us

[ronandannette]

@ronandannette , I sincerely appreciate you replying with clarification. My conversations with you are and will continue to be a light in these divided times. I have no interest in spending my life speaking with clones of me.

If they exist.

-----------

Do know that her story, no matter what my beliefs are, was horrifying to take in. I wept. Taking in all sides. Watching moments of her life before Covid hit, even at her advanced age, made our choices so vivid.

I don't want to take this thread off course but just want to add that Brittany Maynard's legal fight really made me think. She was dying at exact time as my father of the same horrid disease and outcome - glioblastoma multiforme, a virulent form of brain cancer that they can only very slightly manage at this time in history.

Also, I know that chronic daily pain - with no known relief - is _____________ hell on earth for those who suffer.

Just adding my thoughts. No other intent. Once again, I appreciate you clarifying.

Grace and peace, Lisa. To you and everybody everywhere - this whole nightmare we find ourselves in is just tragedy heaped on tragedy.

 

[lisaviolet]

Nothing too surprising, most was expected. Nothing really changes for me. Even the Christmas plans do not change. We are a small family. It's just me, my brother and my mother. So even without the exception we are still complying to the rules.

Karin, your thoughts on the changes beyond your life?

Absolutely no tone used in that question. It sounds so awful to read back.

i truly want to know your thoughts on the new measures.

 

[Karin1984]

Karin, your thoughts on the changes beyond your life?

Absolutely no tone used in that question. It sounds so awful to read back.

i truly want to know your thoughts on the new measures.

Gotcha

It's terrible for people in small businesses and those with young kids but non-essential jobs.

For the parents:
Highschool kids can do remote learning more independently than younger ones. Parents will have to go back to combining work and taking care of their children.
Good thing it's, out of those 5 weeks, it will be Christmas holidays for 2, and a lot of people take vacation for those two weeks. HOWEVER, the Christmas holidays is the time when people take their children sightseeing, museums, themeparks, pools, large indoor playgrounds. And those are all closed. So for the two weeks off... you have to entertain your children in your own home.
Weather in late December in the Netherlands is cold, misty and rainy. That's not good when trying to entertain children.

For small businesses (and shops in general)
Large cooperations will survive more easily than those who own shop and put all their heart and soul into, small shops do not always have a webshop. And those who do, our mail company is overloaded already as people order so much online this time of year.
Christmas holiday-shopping picks up after the 5th of December here. People haven't been able to get everything yet.
For many shops this is the most important time of the year (also think about beauticians and hair dressers), they bought their inventory thinking/hoping they would be open. So they now have inventory they won't be able to sell in January.

Some people here say: "Well, we live in small village A. The shopping streets are quiet! We shouldn't close down because of a problem in big city B." But they fail to see that if you close down city B, people will go to the places that are open and flock to village A. That's just human nature.
We also have to do this because of the reactions of Germany and Belgium. There are some holidays like the 1st of May that is a holiday in many European countries, but not in the Netherlands. When the shops close in the surrounding countries, it's very easy to hop over the border and shop there. That's the case regardless of Covid.
But now, Covid-tourism is a thing. We have had Belgians come to the hairdresser in NL because they had already closed in BE.


The response is okay, most people understand the need. Some say the decision should have taken a few weeks ago. But that's just the Netherlands ;-) When we see bad weather coming, the train & airline companies take precautions and cancel trains/planes on forehand. When the weather is indeed bad, no one afterwards says: Yes, that was a good decision. But when the weather is good... The train & airline companies are called out for being too cautious.
We have a saying here: "We have 17 million covid-experts in the Netherlands" (originally it was 17 million soccer coaches, but we adapt!), everyone knows what to do and say, but usually after the fact.

Some protests, but small, 300 people was the biggest.

 

[ronandannette]

Gotcha

It's terrible for people in small businesses and those with young kids but non-essential jobs.

For the parents:
Highschool kids can do remote learning more independently than younger ones. Parents will have to go back to combining work and taking care of their children.
Good thing it's, out of those 5 weeks, it will be Christmas holidays for 2, and a lot of people take vacation for those two weeks. HOWEVER, the Christmas holidays is the time when people take their children sightseeing, museums, themeparks, pools, large indoor playgrounds. And those are all closed. So for the two weeks off... you have to entertain your children in your own home.
Weather in late December in the Netherlands is cold, misty and rainy. That's not good when trying to entertain children.

For small businesses (and shops in general)
Large cooperations will survive more easily than those who own shop and put all their heart and soul into, small shops do not always have a webshop. And those who do, our mail company is overloaded already as people order so much online this time of year.
Christmas holiday-shopping picks up after the 5th of December here. People haven't been able to get everything yet.
For many shops this is the most important time of the year (also think about beauticians and hair dressers), they bought their inventory thinking/hoping they would be open. So they now have inventory they won't be able to sell in January.

Some people here say: "Well, we live in small village A. The shopping streets are quiet! We shouldn't close down because of a problem in big city B." But they fail to see that if you close down city B, people will go to the places that are open and flock to village A. That's just human nature.
We also have to do this because of the reactions of Germany and Belgium. There are some holidays like the 1st of May that is a holiday in many European countries, but not in the Netherlands. When the shops close in the surrounding countries, it's very easy to hop over the border and shop there. That's the case regardless of Covid.
But now, Covid-tourism is a thing. We have had Belgians come to the hairdresser in NL because they had already closed in BE.


The response is okay, most people understand the need. Some say the decision should have taken a few weeks ago. But that's just the Netherlands ;-) When we see bad weather coming, the train & airline companies take precautions and cancel trains/planes on forehand. When the weather is indeed bad, no one afterwards says: Yes, that was a good decision. But when the weather is good... The train & airline companies are called out for being too cautious.
We have a saying here: "We have 17 million covid-experts in the Netherlands" (originally it was 17 million soccer coaches, but we adapt!), everyone knows what to do and say, but usually after the fact.

Some protests, but small, 300 people was the biggest.

Everything you wrote describes Alberta too, practically word for word. The exact same restrictions came into force here on Sunday morning. (I’m referring to the school and business shut-down; everything else has already been in place for various lengths of time. We’ve been gradually adding more and more restrictions since the mask mandate in August.)

And I absolutely LOVE your little joke about the soccer coaches - thanks for the giggle.

 

[BadPinkTink]

https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-vaccine-ireland-plan-5300295-Dec2020/The plans for Ireland’s Covid-19 vaccines roll-out have been published this afternoon, with details about logistics and who will carry out the inoculations included.

The vaccines will be administered in three phases – the initial roll-out, a mass ramp-up and open access. Once there are a large number of doses available, the mass ramp-up stage can begin.

The highest priority groups – those over the age of 65 in long-term care facilities; and frontline healthcare workers in direct patient contact – will receive vaccinations first.

The vaccines will be administrated from long-term care facilities, hospitals, mass vaccination clinics, GP surgeries and community pharmacies.

This will include the creation of vaccine hubs that will account for a large portion of the vaccinations.

The strategy also seeks to call on the skills of retired doctors and healthcare professionals to help with the vaccination effort.

However, the majority of the work will fall to healthcare workers, such as GPs, nurses and pharmacists who are set to be asked to administer the vaccines programme.

The initial vaccination centres will be 11 acute hospitals and 6 community hospitals. Max vaccination centres will be created in locations such as exhibition and conference venues.

• The public can schedule a vaccine either online or by phone.
• The person can choose the location of the appointment.
• When scheduling a vaccination appointment ID and eligibility will need to be submitted.
• On the day of the vaccination, ID and eligibility will be confirmed and a consent form signed.
• The second dose appointment will be scheduled once the person receives the first dose
• A vaccination cert and reminder of second dose appointment will be available by email, post or text message
• After the vaccination, the person will be asked to stay for 15 minutes in a rest area.

IBM and Salesforce are creating a centralized database infrastructure and the Irish Data Protection Commission are overseeing GDPR compliance.

 

[BadPinkTink]

The EU is expected to approve the Pfizer vaccine by December 21 , week earlier than expected. Ireland is expecting the first delivery of 5000 doses and to start vaccinations before the end of December.

The Irish Government are also discussing a vaccination certificate which can be used for travel and other reasons. Its very likely that in 2021 this vaccination certificate will be necessary for a variety of reasons.

 

[Karin1984]

- In NL we still don't have a date when we will start vaccinating. Ursula von Leyen announced she wants all 27 EU countries to start at the same time, so I hope that gives some perspective.
- We will use the governmental system we use for filing our taxes, and some other things to keep track of the vaccins who got what and when. As of late March you can download your vaccin evidence. The Government has said do not travel abroad till mid March if not necessary.
- Highschool students are the biggest superspreaders
- Lot of confusion about what is an 'essential store', as last few years a lot of non-food stores started to sell food or other essential items and vice versa. Today some stores opened only to be closed a few hours later. Initially government said 30% off the store's profit has to be essential to be open, they have upped it today to 70%.

 

[BadPinkTink]

- Lot of confusion about what is an 'essential store', as last few years a lot of non-food stores started to sell food or other essential items and vice versa. Today some stores opened only to be closed a few hours later. Initially government said 30% off the store's profit has to be essential to be open, they have upped it today to 70%.

Same thing happened here. The big supermarkets at the start didn't close their entrainment and clothes sections while the independent clothes stores closed, so the Irish Government specifically named them and said to close those sections. Also some small stores started selling PPE to say they were essential, again the Irish Government told them to close.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

- In NL we still don't have a date when we will start vaccinating. Ursula von Leyen announced she wants all 27 EU countries to start at the same time, so I hope that gives some perspective.
- We will use the governmental system we use for filing our taxes, and some other things to keep track of the vaccins who got what and when. As of late March you can download your vaccin evidence. The Government has said do not travel abroad till mid March if not necessary.
- Highschool students are the biggest superspreaders
- Lot of confusion about what is an 'essential store', as last few years a lot of non-food stores started to sell food or other essential items and vice versa. Today some stores opened only to be closed a few hours later. Initially government said 30% off the store's profit has to be essential to be open, they have upped it today to 70%.

Oh my going from 30% to 70% is quite a shift!

I can understand traveling abroad. That's the thing that gets missed in other conversations in other threads. People will say how much of the U.S. will be vaccinated by a certain timeframe so our lives will be expected to be normal by this time frame but they forget..you know that there's other countries out there. Just how the borders will be handled as spring and summer hits will be interesting to watch.

 

[ronandannette]

Oh my going from 30% to 70% is quite a shift!

I can understand traveling abroad. That's the thing that gets missed in other conversations in other threads. People will say how much of the U.S. will be vaccinated by a certain timeframe so our lives will be expected to be normal by this time frame but they forget..you know that there's other countries out there. Just how the borders will be handled as spring and summer hits will be interesting to watch.

The Canadian border is still closed to non-essential travel and Canadians are (theoretically) under a travel ban. Those that do "loophole it" are required to quarantine for 14 days upon return. There has been a pilot project to modify these requirements (for Canadian travellers only, not leisure travellers from other countries) going on in Alberta. (Nobody need chime in to naysay why Alberta is doing this - it was the FEDERAL government that decided where the project would take place.) Apparently there have been very few cases of Covid-positive travellers but frankly, the conditions and logistics of the project make it a not-very-viable way of re-opening travel.
International Border Testing Pilot Program | Alberta.ca

 

[Karin1984]

Oh my going from 30% to 70% is quite a shift!

I can understand traveling abroad. That's the thing that gets missed in other conversations in other threads. People will say how much of the U.S. will be vaccinated by a certain timeframe so our lives will be expected to be normal by this time frame but they forget..you know that there's other countries out there. Just how the borders will be handled as spring and summer hits will be interesting to watch.

For the Netherlands, the entire world is put to 'orange' which means that you should only travel when necessary, no holidays and quarantine afterwards. However, with the lockdown, the quarantine is not such a big deal to some. Today there was an article that the flight to Curacao was quite busy. It's the only sunny destination where NL people can go to.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The Canadian border is still closed to non-essential travel and Canadians are (theoretically) under a travel ban. Those that do "loophole it" are required to quarantine for 14 days upon return. There has been a pilot project to modify these requirements (for Canadian travellers only, not leisure travellers from other countries) going on in Alberta. (Nobody need chime in to naysay why Alberta is doing this - it was the FEDERAL government that decided where the project would take place.) Apparently there have been very few cases of Covid-positive travellers but frankly, the conditions and logistics of the project make it a not-very-viable way of re-opening travel.
International Border Testing Pilot Program | Alberta.ca

I think this is why it will be interesting to see how the U.S./Canada border goes because both of our countries are getting vaccinations now. I think Canada, based on all the comments and news stories, would probably feel like keeping the border closed for longer than the U.S. would to Canada. The vaccinations aren't equal to each other in the amount and who is getting them but that was why I was wondering what spring and summer holds. It's too early since the vaccines just started but something I'm keeping an eye on.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

For the Netherlands, the entire world is put to 'orange' which means that you should only travel when necessary, no holidays and quarantine afterwards. However, with the lockdown, the quarantine is not such a big deal to some. Today there was an article that the flight to Curacao was quite busy. It's the only sunny destination where NL people can go to.

I bet it was busy; I've heard lovely things about that place. Yes the no-non-essential travel thing is really understandable. We just don't have enough people who have been vaccinated to let it go and we're still in a precarious situation with the spread of the virus. I did wonder though just like this prior spring where there were travel bans to this place but not that place if that will kick back up again come spring and summer. Travel is something I know many people, including myself, are yearning for but even I'm not quite ready to go international. It's just there is a pent up demand and places need tourism too.

 

[Karin1984]

I bet it was busy; I've heard lovely things about that place. Yes the no-non-essential travel thing is really understandable. We just don't have enough people who have been vaccinated to let it go and we're still in a precarious situation with the spread of the virus. I did wonder though just like this prior spring where there were travel bans to this place but not that place if that will kick back up again come spring and summer. Travel is something I know many people, including myself, are yearning for but even I'm not quite ready to go international. It's just there is a pent up demand and places need tourism too.

To me, I do not want to travel international because I am not ready to have my mask on for so long at a time.
I have looked in travelling within Europe, because it's easier/shorter to get back if needed, there are more flights. However, in most places that interest me either everything is closed, or the weather sucks.

I am not a big fan of domestic travel with an overnight stay, as the Netherlands is so small it's not worth it staying at a hotel for me, so I'd rather sleep in my own house. (and everything is closed, and the weather sucks too)

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

To me, I do not want to travel international because I am not ready to have my mask on for so long at a time.
I have looked in travelling within Europe, because it's easier/shorter to get back if needed, there are more flights. However, in most places that interest me either everything is closed, or the weather sucks.

I am not a big fan of domestic travel with an overnight stay, as the Netherlands is so small it's not worth it staying at a hotel for me, so I'd rather sleep in my own house. (and everything is closed, and the weather sucks too)

You know things being closed and the weather sucking is actually an important consideration and I hear ya on the masks..it's one of the big reasons I didn't want to go to our local amusement park especially because the walkways are mostly asphalt so in the hot humid summer the heat just bounces off and a mask would just be not what I'd want to add to that.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I think Bavaria is still on her break, Mousefan comes and goes. There are some other Germans on Dis, but not many in the Off-topic community.
If it's the same as in the Netherlands next door, it's mainly schools and in the privacy of their homes. The parties are probably not as much of a contribution as schools & homes. Although, for Germany demonstrations might contribute more. More people are involved, and one of the leaders is now in the hospital with covid as there were no masks and no social distancing.
In NL we implemented an indoor mask mandate per the 1st of December here and numbers only went up.

Tonight we had another press conference: We are in lockdown for 5 weeks, till January 19th.
- Visitors from other families goes down from 3 to 2 people per day. Exception are 24, 25, 26 December (yes, we get two days for Christmas ), doesn't go for New Year's Eve.
- Non-essential stores close, supermarkets, drugstores, apothecaries, gas stations etc. stay open.
- All contact professions (hair dressers, masseuses, beauticians) have to close. Medics like physical therapists & dentists can stay open.
- All schools for children till 18 years old go digital. Colleges & universities were still mainly digital
- Day care only available for parents in essential professions.
- Stay at home as much as possible.
- Do not travel abroad and do not book anything before mid-March
- Museums, themeparks, theaters, zoos all close.
- All indoor sport locations close, gyms, but also indoor tennis courts
- Everyone has to exercise outside, only exception are professional sportsmen and -women. If you exercise outside, only with 2 other people
- Hotels stay open, but cannot serve drinks or food.
- Religious buildings stay open, but have to adhere to social distancing and limited capacity.
- Max. 100 people at funerals stays the same
- Restaurants/bars etc stay closed, take out only. Supermarkets cannot sell alcohol after 8pm. Not sure if liquor stores can stay open.
- You can still go outside, also at night, we will not get a curfew.

Nothing too surprising, most was expected. Nothing really changes for me. Even the Christmas plans do not change. We are a small family. It's just me, my brother and my mother. So even without the exception we are still complying to the rules.

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I see that Germany is still having very high numbers. The restrictions in the Netherlands make sense. Hopefully your case numbers will begin to decline. I'm glad your small family can get together. The vaccines can't come fast enough! Stay safe.

 

[hdrolfe]

Canadian public health agency says all who want the vaccine will be able to get it by September. I am not sure whether that will mean things open up this summer more or not, I keep hearing masks will still be required so who knows.

Quebec has announced big lockdowns for two weeks after Christmas. Work from home for office workers, closing all non-essential businesses, elementary schools will have a week of learning from home (after their holidays), closing all bars and restaurants. Their numbers have been getting worse so a strict lock down it is. I live in Ottawa which is across the river from Quebec and wonder if they will close the bridges to non-essential travel as they did in March/April. It is tricky with people living in two different provinces so close together, some of my colleagues live in Quebec. We are all working from home now, and at least until the end of June, so it's no change there.

 

[bcla]

The entire Bay Area region has gone to the stay at home order (starting at the end of this Thursday) where all dining (indoor or outdoor) and indoor services are shut down. There were a few counties that didn't proactively enter into a stay at home order, but they're going to have to because of a state requirement for the region.

This is happening because ICU capacity in the Bay Area region is now under 15%. I understand that most ICU patients aren't COVID-19 patients, but the concern is that people will die when they don't have access to ICU beds and ICU medical personnel.

I'm not quite sure how it affects places like Six Flags Discovery Kingdom. It was operating as a zoo although the last day they did so was Saturday. They're having some sort of drive-thru experience to see their holiday lights, with some food service delivered to cars. I believe Magic Mountain in LA County has done the same even with their regional shutdown, so it might still be allowed here.

 

[dvcgirl67]

The entire Bay Area region has gone to the stay at home order where all dining (indoor or outdoor) and indoor services are shut down. There were a few counties that didn't proactively enter into a stay at home order, but they're going to have to because of a state requirement for the region.

This is happening because ICU capacity in the Bay Area region is now under 15%. I understand that most ICU patients aren't COVID-19 patients, but the concern is that people will die when they don't have access to ICU beds and ICU medical personnel.

We're really in a pickle now in the US. California alone today has nearly 60,000 cases. Over 3,500 deaths. And here in NJ, more and more people are getting sick...closer and closer in my own circle of friends and family. Stay safe everyone.

 

[snappy]

.

sorry wrong thread