Covid And The Rest of Us

[NFLDERS]

Now of course I could have heard incorrectly, but I believe a single person can be with one other household during the holiday. Is Niagara different on the verbiage?

No you are right. I've edited as needed. Thanks.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In NL our government deliberately chose to allow visitors to nursing homes now. As during the first wave the lack of human contact and basically being locked up did more harm than the actual deaths/infections. It's hard to put into figures what is better. Someone having a chance of dying sooner due to Covid, but being able to visit and be there when needed, or keeping the elderly locked up. There is no good answer.

I've so appreciated though your government (and other governments too) making that a point. You're right no good answer at all. Here in the States so much of it was focused on the dying being alone in isolation and it's absolutely heartbreaking thinking of that but the ones who were left in isolation as a safety measure were usually only briefly touched on by a news story of a family member speaking to their other family member through the glass window of the long-term care facility which is also heartbreaking. It's all heartbreaking to me

For the superspreader, the nursing home released a statement stating that they have to make the same hard choices to make like everyone else. They chose mental health over physical health, and they chose wrong in this case.

1918 is such a bad example to compare today to, except that it was a pandemic. There were no options to work from home, there was no ventilation etc. and a lot of kids would be lucky to be in school.

I agree. There are things to be learned but way of life is different so adaptation to our modern lives is important too.

The problem in schools is that children have to rely much more on their parents to help. Children of parents who are 'low-educated' (not sure if this is the term in English), are the kids for who this crisis is the most problematic. Also these parents do not have the highest income, which sucks when it comes to laptops/computers/wifi at home. Schools have options and funds to loan laptops, but in every way these kids pay the price more than the ones from privileged families.
I read one article about a school, where about 50% of the children needs some form of extra guidance, now that's at 75% also due to stress, loneliness etc. Grades going down. The government has given each school 50.000 euro to use to keep students on track, but the school says it's not enough.

This is much the same here in the States. I hope the kids are able to bounce back though; globally it's not looking the best with respects to our younger generations with education but I hope for the best. It's nice to hear your government gave the schools that, I can def. understand it not being enough though.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

A senior in a retirement home here applied for a medically assisted death and was granted it after her second attempt.

She was a very active senior who asked for it because she was unwilling to go through another lockdown.

Her family said she was always going to apply for a medically assisted death but her physical and mental decline during Covid hastened her choice.

I am not black or white regarding it which likely makes me a hypocrite in all honesty because of a moral opposition to one situation and yet a compassionate response to another situation. Individuals with terminal or severely debilitating illnesses often are seen as different in these cases (though there is no consensus by anyone if it's still 'right' to allow it). But we always implore people who are considering ending their life to seek mental health care though.

I did read up and there's a bit different conditions I feel than would normally be acceptable for the few states that allow it in the U.S. to my knowledge though I haven't looked up the areas much in the U.S. in a long while on this subject.

This individual's situation seems like it could mirror so many others and while I rather doubt that many would consider MAID (as described as such in an article I was reading) and yet *sigh* and yet I can understand how the prospect of such isolation can decline one's feeling of there being a quality of life. The fact that her age was 90 probably allows for a different picture though and yet on the other hand that is precisely a reason so many feel our behaviors are the way they are because this virus has hit particularly hard on our elderly and usually the comparison is "if this virus impacted our young children how would the response from people be". This might be one of the hardest moral and ethical conversations one can have IMO outside of choosing who gets medical care and who doesn't when your COVID patients outnumber your resources available.

 

[ronandannette]

I am not black or white regarding it which likely makes me a hypocrite in all honesty because of a moral opposition to one situation and yet a compassionate response to another situation. Individuals with terminal or severely debilitating illnesses often are seen as different in these cases (though there is no consensus by anyone if it's still 'right' to allow it). But we always implore people who are considering ending their life to seek mental health care though.

I did read up and there's a bit different conditions I feel than would normally be acceptable for the few states that allow it in the U.S. to my knowledge though I haven't looked up the areas much in the U.S. in a long while on this subject.

This individual's situation seems like it could mirror so many others and while I rather doubt that many would consider MAID (as described as such in an article I was reading) and yet *sigh* and yet I can understand how the prospect of such isolation can decline one's feeling of there being a quality of life. The fact that her age was 90 probably allows for a different picture though and yet on the other hand that is precisely a reason so many feel our behaviors are the way they are because this virus has hit particularly hard on our elderly and usually the comparison is "if this virus impacted our young children how would the response from people be". This might be one of the hardest moral and ethical conversations one can have IMO outside of choosing who gets medical care and who doesn't when your COVID patients outnumber your resources available.

I wanted to go on the record in clarifying my earlier comments. My opinion towards medically assisted suicide is NOT a condemnation of those who are considering it, especially now that it has been legally legitimized. I am instead heartbroken and outraged (against nothing in particular) that this is what it comes to in the cases of people whose primary reasons are mental health/emotional pain. Once that is identified, how can "we" not rally around that person to meet their needs and relieve their suffering in ways that strengthen and encourage them to go on. It's simply an affront to all who have been touched by the suicide of a loved one, having desperately tried to prevent the senseless loss. And an affront to all who are in the position now, doing everything possible to bring loved ones back from the brink. There's an active thread about this right now.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I wanted to go on the record in clarifying my earlier comments. My opinion towards medically assisted suicide is NOT a condemnation of those who are considering it, especially now that it has been legally legitimized. I am instead heartbroken and outraged (against nothing in particular) that this is what it comes to in the cases of people whose primary reasons are mental health/emotional pain. Once that is identified, how can "we" not rally around that person to meet their needs and relieve their suffering in ways that strengthen and encourage them to go on. It's simply an affront to all who have been touched by the suicide of a loved one, having desperately tried to prevent the senseless loss. And an affront to all who are in the position now, doing everything possible to bring loved ones back from the brink. There's an active thread about this right now.

Oh please don't think I was speaking towards your comments! I was only speaking about myself and my feelings of which I myself have mixed emotions about and of which have changed over time; it used to be a far simpler answer to the concept but it is no longer that way for me.

You don't have to clarify at all to me personally (to the thread if you felt like it but not to me). I fully respected where you were coming from and apologize if it came off like I was referring to your comments I totally did not mean for that to happen.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Any Germans in this thread? I've been watching the numbers there and even with the "Lockdown Light"....it seems that you're struggling to get your numbers down. I read today that restrictions are going to get a lot tougher this week. What do you think is responsible for keeping the numbers so high? Is it like here in the U.S....people have pandemic fatigue and are giving up, or something else? Just curious....Germany did so well with the first surge, but seems to be struggling now.

 

[mommasita]

I also wanted to check in with @MommyinHonduras . How are things going your way?

 

[MommyinHonduras]

I also wanted to check in with @MommyinHonduras . How are things going your way?

Thanks for asking Mommacita. On the island they have closed the Covid center as no one needs it. Last week there were 2 cases that were in the hospital. We have beds for 20.

On the mainland there are 546 in the hospital, 427 are stable, 106 critical and 13 in ICU.

So with all the chaos that the hurricanes created last month, we have a lot of needs that are overwhelming but our cases are not changing much.
They are back to testing around 1,500 PCR tests daily, and around 30% on average are positive. So our case numbers are the same as months ago, but those needing medical care are within the amounts the system can handle. Hoping that keeps them from bringing back our lockdown restrictions that were finally lifted Nov 9th with the 1st hurricane. They had been in effect since March 15th.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Thanks for asking Mommacita. On the island they have closed the Covid center as no one needs it. Last week there were 2 cases that were in the hospital. We have beds for 20.

On the mainland there are 546 in the hospital, 427 are stable, 106 critical and 13 in ICU.

So with all the chaos that the hurricanes created last month, we have a lot of needs that are overwhelming but our cases are not changing much.
They are back to testing around 1,500 PCR tests daily, and around 30% on average are positive. So our case numbers are the same as months ago, but those needing medical care are within the amounts the system can handle. Hoping that keeps them from bringing back our lockdown restrictions that were finally lifted Nov 9th with the 1st hurricane. They had been in effect since March 15th.

I'm glad to hear your cases are basically stabilized for now even though I'm sure 30% seems really high to some of us here it's better than sharply increasing for you there And good to hear your restrictions has passed!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't remember if it was discussed or not are the distribution centers being disclosed for those outside the U.S.? I feel like because a few of you in Canada mentioned Pfizer would want the doses to be administered at the distribution centers themselves of course they would have to be disclosed but then I remembered I'm not entirely certain that was fully cleared up.

I mention that because a local article said this: "But there’s a lot of secrecy concerning when the vaccine will be shipped to the metro and where it will be stored -- and that's for security reasons. "They’re not real enthusiastic about saying where they are, strategic stockpiles are, nor are we saying a lot about where they will arrive in the state of Kansas or the state of Missouri," Norman said, "and the reason is just operation security. We want to keep our strategic stockpiles kind of under wraps a little bit just so it doesn’t cause a lot of public attention."

 

[mommasita]

Lots of thoughts going out @MommyinHonduras

I

 

[ronandannette]

Thanks for asking Mommacita. On the island they have closed the Covid center as no one needs it. Last week there were 2 cases that were in the hospital. We have beds for 20.

On the mainland there are 546 in the hospital, 427 are stable, 106 critical and 13 in ICU.

So with all the chaos that the hurricanes created last month, we have a lot of needs that are overwhelming but our cases are not changing much.
They are back to testing around 1,500 PCR tests daily, and around 30% on average are positive. So our case numbers are the same as months ago, but those needing medical care are within the amounts the system can handle. Hoping that keeps them from bringing back our lockdown restrictions that were finally lifted Nov 9th with the 1st hurricane. They had been in effect since March 15th.

I'm not sure if what you're saying is actually good or bad, Covid-wise but I'm glad for you that your crazy-strict lock-down has been lifted.

I don't remember if it was discussed or not are the distribution centers being disclosed for those outside the U.S.? I feel like because a few of you in Canada mentioned Pfizer would want the doses to be administered at the distribution centers themselves of course they would have to be disclosed but then I remembered I'm not entirely certain that was fully cleared up.

I mention that because a local article said this: "But there’s a lot of secrecy concerning when the vaccine will be shipped to the metro and where it will be stored -- and that's for security reasons. "They’re not real enthusiastic about saying where they are, strategic stockpiles are, nor are we saying a lot about where they will arrive in the state of Kansas or the state of Missouri," Norman said, "and the reason is just operation security. We want to keep our strategic stockpiles kind of under wraps a little bit just so it doesn’t cause a lot of public attention."

Alberta and Ontario, at least, are considering having the distribution planned and executed by the Canadian Armed Forces. NOT because of security issues but because they are expert at mission/project planning and logistics.
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/lo...-distribution-if-asked-says-brigade-commander

 

[Karin1984]

Hard lockdown for NL. Schools, gyms, museums, hairdressers, non essential shops etc. everything closes till 19 January, most starting at midnight tonight, schools as of Wednesday.

 

[MommyinHonduras]

I'm not sure if what you're saying is actually good or bad, Covid-wise but I'm glad for you that your crazy-strict lock-down has been lifted.

Covidwise it is stable? Honduras as a country is not well, and it is not due to people with covid primarily.

This year's lockdowns plus 2 hurricanes have left a lot of people hungry, homeless, jobless and businessless. We have lost around 3,000 people who tested positive for the Sarscov2 virus, and the amount of people suffering is exponentially way more and hard to give a number too.

Announced of recent, all businesses are allowed to be open except bars and night clubs. Meeting of groups up to 50. Masks must be worn around people not in your household unless eating. Temperatures and hand sanitizer are required to enter most indoor locations. Life is moving around again. This is adding great injections of mental wellbeing in the midst of the sufferings. I am very thankful. We celebrated Thanksgiving with several other families and I had brunch with about 20 women yesterday, most I had not seen since March. (The island is smaller than Disney World Resort for reference.) Hope is alive and neighborly love and concern are everywhere.

Following the wise advice of Mr. Roger's momma <3





I did buy a Seaworld annual pass and will be spending a month in Orlando soon. I will be offline most of the next two months as I will not have my computer just my phone, which I dislike scrolling the internet with.
.

 

[ronandannette]

Covidwise it is stable? Honduras as a country is not well, and it is not due to people with covid primarily.

This year's lockdowns plus 2 hurricanes have left a lot of people hungry, homeless, jobless and businessless. We have lost around 3,000 people who tested positive for the Sarscov2 virus, and the amount of people suffering is exponentially way more and hard to give a number too.

Announced of recent, all businesses are allowed to be open except bars and night clubs. Meeting of groups up to 50. Masks must be worn around people not in your household unless eating. Temperatures and hand sanitizer are required to enter most indoor locations. Life is moving around again. This is adding great injections of mental wellbeing in the midst of the sufferings. I am very thankful. We celebrated Thanksgiving with several other families and I had brunch with about 20 women yesterday, most I had not seen since March. (The island is smaller than Disney World Resort for reference.) Hope is alive and neighborly love and concern are everywhere.

Following the wise advice of Mr. Roger's momma <3

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I did buy a Seaworld annual pass and will be spending a month in Orlando soon. I will be offline most of the next two months as I will not have my computer just my phone, which I dislike scrolling the internet with.
.

Is Florida your home state? Are you now able to get your kids out of Honduras? I’m sure everyone here joins me in wishing you well. Safe travels and a very Merry Christmas. We’ll be thinking of you and praying for the people of Honduras. Drop us a line to let us know how you’re doing if you get a chance.

 

[NFLDERS]

I wanted to go on the record in clarifying my earlier comments. My opinion towards medically assisted suicide is NOT a condemnation of those who are considering it, especially now that it has been legally legitimized. I am instead heartbroken and outraged (against nothing in particular) that this is what it comes to in the cases of people whose primary reasons are mental health/emotional pain. Once that is identified, how can "we" not rally around that person to meet their needs and relieve their suffering in ways that strengthen and encourage them to go on. It's simply an affront to all who have been touched by the suicide of a loved one, having desperately tried to prevent the senseless loss. And an affront to all who are in the position now, doing everything possible to bring loved ones back from the brink. There's an active thread about this right now.

Their needs are I think at a point of 'respect my decision.' This is in part still decided by ie a medical panel is it not? Also, one of those human virtues of empathy situations.

 

[NFLDERS]

Any Germans in this thread? I've been watching the numbers there and even with the "Lockdown Light"....it seems that you're struggling to get your numbers down. I read today that restrictions are going to get a lot tougher this week. What do you think is responsible for keeping the numbers so high? Is it like here in the U.S....people have pandemic fatigue and are giving up, or something else? Just curious....Germany did so well with the first surge, but seems to be struggling now.

Our Ddil's family are in Germany. The discussions in her region are of the reckless behaviour of 20 - 40 somethings mostly in later night gatherings

 

[Karin1984]

Any Germans in this thread? I've been watching the numbers there and even with the "Lockdown Light"....it seems that you're struggling to get your numbers down. I read today that restrictions are going to get a lot tougher this week. What do you think is responsible for keeping the numbers so high? Is it like here in the U.S....people have pandemic fatigue and are giving up, or something else? Just curious....Germany did so well with the first surge, but seems to be struggling now.

I think Bavaria is still on her break, Mousefan comes and goes. There are some other Germans on Dis, but not many in the Off-topic community.
If it's the same as in the Netherlands next door, it's mainly schools and in the privacy of their homes. The parties are probably not as much of a contribution as schools & homes. Although, for Germany demonstrations might contribute more. More people are involved, and one of the leaders is now in the hospital with covid as there were no masks and no social distancing.
In NL we implemented an indoor mask mandate per the 1st of December here and numbers only went up.

Tonight we had another press conference: We are in lockdown for 5 weeks, till January 19th.
- Visitors from other families goes down from 3 to 2 people per day. Exception are 24, 25, 26 December (yes, we get two days for Christmas ), doesn't go for New Year's Eve.
- Non-essential stores close, supermarkets, drugstores, apothecaries, gas stations etc. stay open.
- All contact professions (hair dressers, masseuses, beauticians) have to close. Medics like physical therapists & dentists can stay open.
- All schools for children till 18 years old go digital. Colleges & universities were still mainly digital
- Day care only available for parents in essential professions.
- Stay at home as much as possible.
- Do not travel abroad and do not book anything before mid-March
- Museums, themeparks, theaters, zoos all close.
- All indoor sport locations close, gyms, but also indoor tennis courts
- Everyone has to exercise outside, only exception are professional sportsmen and -women. If you exercise outside, only with 2 other people
- Hotels stay open, but cannot serve drinks or food.
- Religious buildings stay open, but have to adhere to social distancing and limited capacity.
- Max. 100 people at funerals stays the same
- Restaurants/bars etc stay closed, take out only. Supermarkets cannot sell alcohol after 8pm. Not sure if liquor stores can stay open.
- You can still go outside, also at night, we will not get a curfew.

Nothing too surprising, most was expected. Nothing really changes for me. Even the Christmas plans do not change. We are a small family. It's just me, my brother and my mother. So even without the exception we are still complying to the rules.

 

[lisaviolet]

@ronandannette , I sincerely appreciate you replying with clarification. My conversations with you are and will continue to be a light in these divided times. I have no interest in spending my life speaking with clones of me.

If they exist.

-----------

Do know that her story, no matter what my beliefs are, was horrifying to take in. I wept. Taking in all sides. Watching moments of her life before Covid hit, even at her advanced age, made our choices so vivid.

I don't want to take this thread off course but just want to add that Brittany Maynard's legal fight really made me think. She was dying at exact time as my father of the same horrid disease and outcome - glioblastoma multiforme, a virulent form of brain cancer that they can only very slightly manage at this time in history.

Also, I know that chronic daily pain - with no known relief - is _____________ hell on earth for those who suffer.

Just adding my thoughts. No other intent. Once again, I appreciate you clarifying.

 

[lisaviolet]

I've so appreciated though your government (and other governments too) making that a point. You're right no good answer at all. Here in the States so much of it was focused on the dying being alone in isolation and it's absolutely heartbreaking thinking of that but the ones who were left in isolation as a safety measure were usually only briefly touched on by a news story of a family member speaking to their other family member through the glass window of the long-term care facility which is also heartbreaking. It's all heartbreaking to me

Me too. On every part of your post.

...yet on the other hand that is precisely a reason so many feel our behaviors are the way they are because this virus has hit particularly hard on our elderly and usually the comparison is "if this virus impacted our young children how would the response from people be".

No easy answers but we have failed an entire generation. That is heartbreaking.