Could I be happy with a switch to FF?

[mom2rtk]

I'm fairly uneducated about Canon glass but can't the FF glass also be used on the APS-C?

Yes, but it just wouldn't be the same I would choose for the APS-C model. I like wide and fast. And I haven't decided yet if I would choose 2.8 glass for the FF.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Didn't you have the T2i before? If you did, how do you think the focus on the 6D compares to the focus on the T2i?

Everybody's getting all hung up on the focus on the 6D. It's better than ANYTHING was 3 years ago (That pretty much covers the T2i.). It's not a MkIII, nor is it intended to be. It's not a DX either, but I'm not a DX or MkIII type photographer. I've never had the focus points on the 6D get in my way. The 70D has more, yes; but the reason I pick up the 70D is for reach, not focus.

As far as size v. the T2i, you might as well get over it. ANY of these cameras is going to be bigger than the Rebels. It's by design. I actually like the larger format because it gives me more to hold on to and it gives more real estate for controls so they are not too close together to actually use. the weight's going to be in your glass, not the camera. Thought the semi-pros do weigh more, it's not significantly different than the Rebels to me.

You are going to take a hit on your glass. EF glass is WAY more expensive, but if you do make the move to FF, you will never look back. I do like the option of having the best of both worlds because I can reach for the 70D when I want reach.

I will say this. If you buy the 6D with the 24-105 bundle, you're likely to not really need anything else except a 70-200 f4 IS, even though I bought the 2.8. Remember this is FF, and the extra stop is gained back by that. That 24 is also a real 24 and not a 36 (or whatever) so that's pretty wide at the wide end.

I still have all my EF-S glass and don't really want for anything for the 6D. Eventually, I want to get a nice 35 or 28 prime for it that stops down to 1.4 or so just for dark rides at Disney, but I'm not losing any sleep over it.

I could really be very happy with exactly what I have now. It's just not my nature not to constantly be looking for something new to play with.

 

[havoc315]

Lensrentals.com has introduced a rent-to-buy program. So if you want to buy used, you can rent and try the 6d. If you want to keep it, the rental price is applied to the sales price.

 

[mom2rtk]

Everybody's getting all hung up on the focus on the 6D. It's better than ANYTHING was 3 years ago (That pretty much covers the T2i.). It's not a MkIII, nor is it intended to be. It's not a DX either, but I'm not a DX or MkIII type photographer. I've never had the focus points on the 6D get in my way. The 70D has more, yes; but the reason I pick up the 70D is for reach, not focus.

As far as size v. the T2i, you might as well get over it. ANY of these cameras is going to be bigger than the Rebels. It's by design. I actually like the larger format because it gives me more to hold on to and it gives more real estate for controls so they are not too close together to actually use. the weight's going to be in your glass, not the camera. Thought the semi-pros do weigh more, it's not significantly different than the Rebels to me.

You are going to take a hit on your glass. EF glass is WAY more expensive, but if you do make the move to FF, you will never look back. I do like the option of having the best of both worlds because I can reach for the 70D when I want reach.

I will say this. If you buy the 6D with the 24-105 bundle, you're likely to not really need anything else except a 70-200 f4 IS, even though I bought the 2.8. Remember this is FF, and the extra stop is gained back by that. That 24 is also a real 24 and not a 36 (or whatever) so that's pretty wide at the wide end.

I still have all my EF-S glass and don't really want for anything for the 6D. Eventually, I want to get a nice 35 or 28 prime for it that stops down to 1.4 or so just for dark rides at Disney, but I'm not losing any sleep over it.

I could really be very happy with exactly what I have now. It's just not my nature not to constantly be looking for something new to play with.

Thanks for your opinion on the focus issue. I was hoping that was the case. Not having shot with anything other than a Rebel, I was thinking that might be the case.

And yes, I just need to decide whether I want to get over the extra weight. It's definitely not out of the question. I just need to pick it up and make sure. I was just online looking at camera shops in town and found the choices pretty lacking. The one I was considering has an online shop that shows it currently out of stock. I'll check with the other when they open to see if it's worth a drive across town.

And I would likely be happy with the range of the 24-105. It's not vastly different from the 17-55 I use 90% of the time now. I'm only trying to decide if I'd miss the 2.8. I could likely afford to start with one lens right now and would have to wait a bit to add another.

 

[mom2rtk]

Lensrentals.com has introduced a rent-to-buy program. So if you want to buy used, you can rent and try the 6d. If you want to keep it, the rental price is applied to the sales price.

Interesting. I'll have to think on that a bit. Nice to have another option though.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Actually, what they say is that they may be willing to post a portion of the rental fees to the purchase. Not sure I'd want to buy a rental, especially a camera, but I digress.

http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/10/lensrentals-com-introduces-keeper/

I'll stress this again. The f4 effectively is a 2.8 when in FF. Let that sink in. If you buy the 2.8 (I think it's a 24-70. Drool.), it's almost 1800 ON SALE, but, and this is a BIG "but," that effectively becomes (compared to what you were used to) a 1.4 on a FF. I hope that makes sense. I know they really are what they are but you are gaining at least a stop going to FF from a crop if that makes sense. 1 stop makes it sort of apples to apples.

Don't even get me started on bokeh.

Get the 6D kit. Keep the T2i and your EF-S glass until you see somthing you want and then sell off the EF-S glass as you need $$ to apply to EF lenses. You'll never go wrong and you'll never look back.

 

[mom2rtk]

Actually, what they say is that they may be willing to post a portion of the rental fees to the purchase. Not sure I'd want to buy a rental, especially a camera, but I digress.

http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/10/lensrentals-com-introduces-keeper/

I'll stress this again. The f4 effectively is a 2.8 when in FF. Let that sink in. If you buy the 2.8 (I think it's a 24-70. Drool.), it's almost 1800 ON SALE, but, and this is a BIG "but," that effectively becomes (compared to what you were used to) a 1.4 on a FF. I hope that makes sense. I know they really are what they are but you are gaining at least a stop going to FF from a crop if that makes sense. 1 stop makes it sort of apples to apples.

Don't even get me started on bokeh.

Get the 6D kit. Keep the T2i and your EF-S glass until you see somthing you want and then sell off the EF-S glass as you need $$ to apply to EF lenses. You'll never go wrong and you'll never look back.

I just looked at some of the shutter counts on their used items. 50K is a lot. I'm not sure if I'd get that on a rent to own, but I would not want one with that many shutter actuations.

And I do get what you are saying about f/4 on a FF is the same as 2.8 on an APS-C. But maybe I like the idea of an equivalent 1.4 lens?

And I wasn't considering the Canon 2.8 lens. I was looking at the Tamron. It does get good reviews, but it's not L glass, so not sure what I would lose there.

I suppose the kit does make sense though. If I decided to go 2.8 later, I'm sure that 24-105 would hold its value. I could just add it to the lens store it looks like I could be opening.

 

[mom2rtk]

Someone help me out with a real world scenario.

I shot the evening Christmas parade in Disney last year with my 2.8 lens and was ok with my shots. But there was room for improvement. I hoped to accomplish that with the Sigma 18-35 this year.

How would shooting with an f/4 on a 6D compare?

Sort of the same deal with dark rides.

Someone mentioned earlier "shooting black cats in dark closets". I just had to laugh at that. Probably because I'd love to chase my black cat around the house taking photos. OK, so maybe not in a closet, but you get the idea.

 

[nbaresejr]

Someone help me out with a real world scenario.

I shot the evening Christmas parade in Disney last year with my 2.8 lens and was ok with my shots. But there was room for improvement. I hoped to accomplish that with the Sigma 18-35 this year.

How would shooting with an f/4 on a 6D compare?

Sort of the same deal with dark rides.

Someone mentioned earlier "shooting black cats in dark closets". I just had to laugh at that. Probably because I'd love to chase my black cat around the house taking photos. OK, so maybe not in a closet, but you get the idea.

I will be at WDW mid Nov so i can give you a better idea when i get back if no one else answers this.

As for dark rides I am borrowing a Canon 50 1.4. I fully expect to be shooting between 8 and 12k ISO at f1.4. I dont think f4 is going to get it done on dark rides. This is just an observation looking at Exif Data on flickr.

 

[mom2rtk]

I will be at WDW mid Nov so i can give you a better idea when i get back if no one else answers this.

As for dark rides I am borrowing a Canon 50 1.4. I fully expect to be shooting between 8 and 12k ISO at f1.4. I dont think f4 is going to get it done on dark rides. This is just an observation looking at Exif Data on flickr.

That's a great suggestion. I need to nose around flickr and see some of the dark ride settings others have used with the 6D.

I took some time today to drive across town and check out the bodies in person. After all the talk about the weight, I think I overprepared myself and it didn't seem as bad as I expected. I loved the weight of the 70-200 f/4 IS too. I could see myself going that direction.

I'm leaning toward the 6D with the kit lens to start and adding the zoom later. But that would leave me with all f/4 glass. I know everyone says I will be happy with this. I probably will. But what are people doing for very low light situations? I know nbaresejr mentioned the 50mm f/1.4. Are there wider options? You know..... for shooting those black cats in dark closets.

 

[SkaGoat]

That's a great suggestion. I need to nose around flickr and see some of the dark ride settings others have used with the 6D.

I took some time today to drive across town and check out the bodies in person. After all the talk about the weight, I think I overprepared myself and it didn't seem as bad as I expected. I loved the weight of the 70-200 f/4 IS too. I could see myself going that direction.

I'm leaning toward the 6D with the kit lens to start and adding the zoom later. But that would leave me with all f/4 glass. I know everyone says I will be happy with this. I probably will. But what are people doing for very low light situations? I know nbaresejr mentioned the 50mm f/1.4. Are there wider options? You know..... for shooting those black cats in dark closets.

Sigma's 35mm f/1.4 ART lens is a great option! http://www.adorama.com/SG3514EOS.html

Canon also has the a 35mm f/2 USM, and a 35mm f/1.4L

The Sigma is sharper than both those options, and slots in between them as far as price goes.

The 70-200mm f/4 IS is a great choice, it's IS is also really good (up to 4 stops with of compensation). It's also hard to believe it's still almost a full pound lighter than my 70-200mm f/2.8L non IS!

 

[havoc315]

That's a great suggestion. I need to nose around flickr and see some of the dark ride settings others have used with the 6D.

I took some time today to drive across town and check out the bodies in person. After all the talk about the weight, I think I overprepared myself and it didn't seem as bad as I expected. I loved the weight of the 70-200 f/4 IS too. I could see myself going that direction.

I'm leaning toward the 6D with the kit lens to start and adding the zoom later. But that would leave me with all f/4 glass. I know everyone says I will be happy with this. I probably will. But what are people doing for very low light situations? I know nbaresejr mentioned the 50mm f/1.4. Are there wider options? You know..... for shooting those black cats in dark closets.

Remember, once you lose the crop factor, 50mm actually starts to feel pretty wide. For my first couple months on fullframe, I used a 50mm as my walk around lens.

But yes, there are some great 35mm options.

 

[mom2rtk]

Sigma's 35mm f/1.4 ART lens is a great option! http://www.adorama.com/SG3514EOS.html

Canon also has the a 35mm f/2 USM, and a 35mm f/1.4L

The Sigma is sharper than both those options, and slots in between them as far as price goes.

The 70-200mm f/4 IS is a great choice, it's IS is also really good (up to 4 stops with of compensation). It's also hard to believe it's still almost a full pound lighter than my 70-200mm f/2.8L non IS!

I was pleasantly surprised by the size and weight of that lens too, especially compared to my Sigma 50-150 f/2.8 OS.

Remember, once you lose the crop factor, 50mm actually starts to feel pretty wide. For my first couple months on fullframe, I used a 50mm as my walk around lens.

But yes, there are some great 35mm options.

Yeah, I know that. But I've been shooting dark rides and low light things at Disney for so long with the 30mm on a crop that I'm hoping for something with a wider field of view just for a change of pace.

 

[firemanchip]

This thread is making me want a 6D. I`m going to wait for Black Friday and see if any deals pop up. I`m also heavily invested in crop lenses and I do not want to get rid of any of them but I also like the capability of the 6D as a compliment to my 70D. I`ve also been eye balling the new Nikon 750. Since I will have to basically get all new glass anyway I may consider that option. I know the learning curve will be steep going from Canon to Nikon so that is a concern but that looks like a sweet Camera.

 

[boBQuincy]

The difference between sensor sizes is mathematical so the best way to explain it all is with mathematics. For those who don't want to go through all this (most of us ?) jump down to figure 13 and it all becomes clear!
http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/digital.sensor.performance.summary/

As seen, the tradeoffs of sensor size (which includes camera and lens size/weight) vs image quality assumes our lens is only diffraction limited and is at its optical best at f/8. For those with a Zeiss Otus this is so, for those with lesser lenses the optical deficiencies of our lenses may limit the image quality more than the sensor. This also assumes no camera shake, for handheld photos all this probably adds up to less than the image degradation from camera movement!

Also as seen, there is an optimum pixel pitch that is dependent on the sharpest aperture. If our lenses are at their best at f/4 or even f/2.8 (like Panasonic's 12-35 and 35-100) the pixel pitch can be smaller. It is no mistake that these micro 4/3 lenses are designed that way, to get the best from cameras with a pixel pitch of slightly less than 4 um.

Enough of the technical stuff, if we really want low light performance micro 4/3 offers lenses with f/0.95 and even f/0.85! That, and if we want full frame (or crop, or ...) then that is what we want, who cares about facts?

 

[mom2rtk]

OK, so the title of the thread was "Can I be happy with a switch to FF?"

I sure hope the answer is yes. Because I called B&H yesterday and they said they would allow me to exchange the Sigma lens toward a 6D. So that's just what I did. I got the kit with the 24-105 f/4. Still not sold on whether I'll be OK without that, but what's one more lens to sell if I decide against it?

I really just had this irrational obsession with wanting to try something known for its incredible low light performance. And my 4 year old T2i has been misbehaving lately and I knew it was time to consider something new. Best to strike while I could at least apply the cost of the Sigma lens to it.

I think I'll be OK with the extra size and weight. I might miss some of the reach, but I'm sure I'll make peace.

Many thanks to everyone here for helping me think this through.

 

[havoc315]

OK, so the title of the thread was "Can I be happy with a switch to FF?"

I sure hope the answer is yes. Because I called B&H yesterday and they said they would allow me to exchange the Sigma lens toward a 6D. So that's just what I did. I got the kit with the 24-105 f/4. Still not sold on whether I'll be OK without that, but what's one more lens to sell if I decide against it?

I really just had this irrational obsession with wanting to try something known for its incredible low light performance. And my 4 year old T2i has been misbehaving lately and I knew it was time to consider something new. Best to strike while I could at least apply the cost of the Sigma lens to it.

I think I'll be OK with the extra size and weight. I might miss some of the reach, but I'm sure I'll make peace.

Many thanks to everyone here for helping me think this through.

Congratulations. You may actually like that this lens gives you *more* reach in terms of walk-around lens. I know I prefer my candid portraits at 75-100mm, so I always found the APS-C lenses that go to 50/55 to be slightly short, as I find my current 28-75 a bit short for many of my purposes. (I walked around yesterday mostly with my 100/2.8 macro on the camera, which I love for the high quality and versatility).

 

[mom2rtk]

Congratulations. You may actually like that this lens gives you *more* reach in terms of walk-around lens. I know I prefer my candid portraits at 75-100mm, so I always found the APS-C lenses that go to 50/55 to be slightly short, as I find my current 28-75 a bit short for many of my purposes. (I walked around yesterday mostly with my 100/2.8 macro on the camera, which I love for the high quality and versatility).

Yeah, I'm sure I'll welcome that extra bit of reach on the "walk around" lens. I'm more concerned with whether I'll be happy enough with the 200 end of the zoom once I get it. I've been using a 50-150 on a crop sensor and been ok with that. But I'll be losing a little bit of that length at 200 now. And I always kept an all in one lens around for times I really wanted to stretch that length out more.

 

[Pixel Dust]

Congrats! Welcome to the full-frame club!

I know you will enjoy it.

 

[mom2rtk]

Congrats! Welcome to the full-frame club!

I know you will enjoy it.

Thanks Franklin! I'm sure I will.

And of course my first test with a camera not embraced by sports shooters ........ will likely be to shoot volleyball! Still, I bet it does way better than the T2i.