Converting Religions

[elizke]

This thread is great for me to see right now. I am 46 and have been Catholic all of my life. DH converted (Lutheran and Baptist background) about 8 years ago and we were all going to Mass every Sunday.

Our biggest issue is the kids. I want church to be a warm, fun loving place, like God. The kids just hated church so much, and religious education is no better. Not only do they not enjoy the classes, they are not learning much either. I want the kids to grow up being comfortable with and have a need for God and His community, and that just wasn't happening. God was a dreaded duty for them, due to the nature of Mass and the lack of any real effort to involve this newer generation.

The area we live in doesn't have much to choose from unfortunately. I wanted something with the same beliefs, but more heart and more fun. DH found an Evangelical Lutheran church and we're there for now. Maybe it's the evangelical part I have trouble with, but I just can't quite love it yet. I have spoken with quite a few people there that used to be Catholic. I do like how they make more of an effort to be a friendly community. The kids like the religious ed classes much better.

Still, I'm a bit undecided. I really wish the Catholic church would modernize at least a little for the kids. I miss it.

 

[SydneyBristow]

-Raised strict Catholic(Catholic school, the works), but I just basically went through the motions.

-Left at 18 and became an agnostic. I studied so many different religions and I dabbled in a lot for new age stuff for many years.

- On 9/11/06 I made the choice to accept Jesus and for the first time in my life I truly believed. All the years of searching ended in an instant. My life just keeps getting better as time goes on, it's amazing.

- I now consider myself to be just a Christian, no denomination attached. It took me almost a year till I walked into a church. Since, we've attended both a non-denominational Christian church and a Baptist one, we love both for different reasons.

 

[jimmiej]

- On 9/11/06 I made the choice to accept Jesus

 

[esdras]

Don't forget Coptic christians

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/copticchristians.htm

Thank you, yes... I did forget to mention this body of Christian faithful. They comprise the largest body of Christians in Egypt.

They are classified under the term "Oriental Orthodox" (as opposed to Eastern Orthodox), and share some similarities with Eastern Orthodox Churches. This group of churches split from the then united Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches after the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD. Essentially, while all believe that Christ is fully divine and fully human, there is some disagreement over just how that manifests in the single person of Jesus Christ. I won't go into details, as it probably isn't all that relevant to this thread.

So, to add a 6th division would be proper - the Oriental Orthodox Churches (of which the Coptic Church would be one denomination).

 

[TLSnell1981]

-

- On 9/11/06 I made the choice to accept Jesus and for the first time in my life I truly believed. All the years of searching ended in an instant. My life just keeps getting better as time goes on, it's amazing.

I don't think it's uncommon to have questions about our beliefs. I know when I've had questions...it always comes back to my faith. He's always in my heart......even when I don't realize it.

 

[Nik's Mom]

A good UM church in your area: http://www.cor.org/

They do have video of an online sermon. As a lifelong Methodist who has only attended a Catholic Christmas Eve mass I can't comment on the differences as compared to a normal mass. Typically there is an old testament lesson and a new testament lesson and they somehow tie in with the service.
Communion is a monthly event at my church, but each congregation is different. As to why, I found this as a good (and fitting) explanation:



If you're curious, by all means try it. You may be pleasantly surprised.

I just wanted to say thank you for suggesting Resurrection United Methodist Church to me. I went to service this morning and I really felt at home there! They even have a ministry that serves special needs families. Being the Mom of 2 autistic children, this news has thrilled me beyond belief. Finally we can belong to a church as a family!!! Thank you!

 

[belle&sebastiansmom]

Nik's Mom - that is so awsome that you could find something like that from the Disboards!
Elizke - I feel the same way about our CCD classes for kids. The Catholic church needs to update and include families in the faith process. For us, we went through the motions, went on Sundays, but didn't get much out of it.

I went into this thread with a lot of questions, and have even more. I enjoy reading everyone's responses and for sharing a bit of your personal stories and beliefs!

Now, can someone explain what being an Evangelical Christian is? Elizke said something about the Evangelical part, not loving it yet. Just wondering what you meant! Thanks.

 

[jimmiej]

Now, can someone explain what being an Evangelical Christian is? Elizke said something about the Evangelical part, not loving it yet. Just wondering what you meant! Thanks.

http://www.gotquestions.org/evangelical-Christian.html

What is an Evangelical Christian?

Question: "What is an Evangelical Christian?"

Answer: To begin, let’s break down the two words. The term "Christian" essentially means "little Christ." "Christian" is the term given to followers of Jesus Christ in the first century A.D. (Acts 11:26). The term "evangelical" comes from the Greek word that means "good news." Evangelism is sharing the good news of the salvation that is available through Jesus Christ. An evangelical, then, is a person dedicated to promoting the good news about Jesus Christ. Combined, the description "evangelical Christian" is intended to indicate a believer in Jesus Christ who is faithful in sharing and promoting the good news.

In Western culture today, there are many caricatures of evangelical Christians. For some, the term "evangelical Christian" is equivalent to right-wing, fundamentalist Republican. For others, "evangelical Christian" is a title used to differentiate an individual from a Catholic Christian or an Orthodox Christian. Others use the term to indicate adherence to the fundamental doctrines of Christianity. In this sense, an evangelical Christian is a believer who holds to the inspiration, inerrancy, and authority of Scripture, the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and salvation by grace through faith alone. However, none of these is inherent in the description "evangelical Christian."

In reality, all Christians should be evangelical Christians. The Bible is consistently instructing us to be witnesses of the good news (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 16:1-4; 1 Peter 3:15). There is no better news than Jesus! There is no higher calling than evangelist. There is no doubt that holding to the fundamentals of the Bible will result in a certain worldview, and yes, political belief. However, there is nothing about being an evangelical that demands a certain political party or affiliation. An evangelical Christian is called to share the good news, to preach God's Word, and to set an example of purity and integrity. If these callings require political action, so be it. At the same time, evangelical Christians should not be sidetracked into abandoning our highest calling—sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[HamTown]

Nik's Mom I'm so glad you had a good experience at COR. I attended a workshop headlined by their children's director not too long ago and was really impressed with the scope of their programming. They have a fantastic ministry and their senior pastor is extremely well respected across Methodism.

The Methodist church (as well as the Episcopal) seems to attract Catholics who are searching for something different. I think there is still enough ritual and mystery to most traditional services that it "feels familiar". The fact that we celebrate an open table for communion and recognize the baptism of any Christian also make it an easy transition.

 

[juligrl]

I just wanted to say thank you for suggesting Resurrection United Methodist Church to me. I went to service this morning and I really felt at home there! They even have a ministry that serves special needs families. Being the Mom of 2 autistic children, this news has thrilled me beyond belief. Finally we can belong to a church as a family!!! Thank you!

Thanks for posting! I glad you found a place you could feel at home!

Nik's Mom I'm so glad you had a good experience at COR. I attended a workshop headlined by their children's director not too long ago and was really impressed with the scope of their programming. They have a fantastic ministry and their senior pastor is extremely well respected across Methodism.

Funny thing is, I recently went to a conference out in OH where Adam Hamilton was one of the speakers. I had just seen his name mentioned on the DIS a few days before the conference, so when I got there and saw that he was one of the speakers I had to listen to him. I ended up getting one of his books, which I'm working my way through now.

 

[esdras]

In reality, all Christians should be evangelical Christians. The Bible is consistently instructing us to be witnesses of the good news (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 16:1-4; 1 Peter 3:15).

I would agree with that. Most Christian denominations have some form of evangelization - whether it is through missionary work or encouraging individuals to do so within their own communities.

Evangelical churches, however, tend to be less "liturgical" than mainstrem Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox churches. What I mean by that is the worship at evangelical churches - while it might maintain a weekly format of music-sermon-music - won't have a set of standard prayers, minister-congregation responses, etc. However, this is far from a "deal-breaker" issue in Christianity. Method of worship should never be a determining factor as to whether a congregation of the faithful are, in fact, faithful.

There is no doubt that holding to the fundamentals of the Bible will result in a certain worldview, and yes, political belief. However, there is nothing about being an evangelical that demands a certain political party or affiliation.

Okay, there's been a lot of political debate on this board lately (understandable with it being an election year) - so I don't want to go too far into this - but the two sentences together seem a little strange to me. If holding to the fundamentals of the Bible will result in a certain political belief, yet doesn't demand a certain political party or affiliation - can it prohibit an evangelical from holding a certain political party or affiliation?

Okay, to be blunt - stereotypically, (in the U.S.) the Republican Party is assumed to be the party of evangelical Christianity, while the Democrats... well... aren't. Going by the statement above, would an evangelical who chooses to affiliate with the Democratic Party be accused of not holding to the fundamentals of the Bible?

I don't want to start a debate here - and perhaps this would warrant a thread of its own (I think it's been discussed before though) - but I think a Biblical worldview in relation to one's political views is far more complex. Depending on which elements of Scripture become your focus, your political views can be influenced. For example, both Rev. Pat Robertson and Rev. Jim Wallis could be classified as evangelical Christians. Roberton is clearly affiliated with the Republicans and Wallis the Democrats - their political views are far from the same.

 

[bicker]

Well, just think about Roman Catholics who are Democrats. They are regularly vilified for their perspective within which they are personally pro-life but willing to draw to a consensus with others who are personally pro-choice, rather than insisting that everyone live in accordance with their own pro-life beliefs.

 

[elizke]

Evangelical churches, however, tend to be less "liturgical" than mainstrem Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox churches. What I mean by that is the worship at evangelical churches - while it might maintain a weekly format of music-sermon-music - won't have a set of standard prayers, minister-congregation responses, etc.

This is what I'm finding. Although I was looking for a less completely ritualized service, it seems every week is different. It almost seems at the whim of the pastors. And then there was last week, when a choir sang the whole time and some service obligations were tacked on a the end.

DH wants to stay here, and there are not many other choices where we live, so I will go along. But for someday when we move to a more urban area, I will keep an eye on this thread. It's harder than I thought to find out about other religions, so thanks OP.

 

[esdras]

Well, just think about Roman Catholics who are Democrats. They are regularly vilified for their perspective within which they are personally pro-life but willing to draw to a consensus with others who are personally pro-choice, rather than insisting that everyone live in accordance with their own pro-life beliefs.

Catholics generally aren't classified as "Evangelicals" - although socially conservative Catholics will often find themselves allied with evangelicals politically on pro-life issues.

Going by some of the exit polls published, Evangelicals voted overwhelmingly Republican (in the mid-70% range IIRC), while members of the Jewish community were overwhelmingly Democrat by about the same percentage.

Catholics and Mainstream Protestants were effectively right down the middle - with about 55% of Catholics voting Democrat and 55% of Protestants voting Republican.

With this, I don't see holding to the fundamentals of the Bible (or, in the case of the Jewish population, the Hebrew Scriptures) necessarily results in a certain political worldview. At the very least, it doesn't seem to affect voting.

On the other hand - if you want to argue from specifics - and state that holding an Evangelical understanding or interpretation of the Bible will result in a certain worldview and political belief, juding by the percentage of that group voting in a similar manner, I would agree with that to a certain extent.

 

[jimmiej]

Okay, there's been a lot of political debate on this board lately (understandable with it being an election year) - so I don't want to go too far into this - but the two sentences together seem a little strange to me. If holding to the fundamentals of the Bible will result in a certain political belief, yet doesn't demand a certain political party or affiliation - can it prohibit an evangelical from holding a certain political party or affiliation?

Okay, to be blunt - stereotypically, (in the U.S.) the Republican Party is assumed to be the party of evangelical Christianity, while the Democrats... well... aren't. Going by the statement above, would an evangelical who chooses to affiliate with the Democratic Party be accused of not holding to the fundamentals of the Bible?
I don't want to start a debate here - and perhaps this would warrant a thread of its own (I think it's been discussed before though) - but I think a Biblical worldview in relation to one's political views is far more complex. Depending on which elements of Scripture become your focus, your political views can be influenced. For example, both Rev. Pat Robertson and Rev. Jim Wallis could be classified as evangelical Christians. Roberton is clearly affiliated with the Republicans and Wallis the Democrats - their political views are far from the same.

We have some very dear friends from our church. Our church is most definitely in the "evangelical" category. This couple is very vocal about the fact that they support the Democrat Party. We try to steer clear clear of political discussions since we are Republicans.

I've often wondered how they balance an issue such as abortion between the Democrat party's pro-choice view & the church's view that life begins at conception. However, my curiosity is trumped by my desire to remain friends with this couple.

 

[esdras]

I've often wondered how they balance an issue such as abortion between the Democrat party's pro-choice view & the church's view that life begins at conception. However, my curiosity is trumped by my desire to remain friends with this couple.

Probably a good approach.

However, it is also good to remember that while the parties themeselves may be predominantly on opposing sides of the abortion issue, there are members in each party whose personal views don't mesh with their general party line. Essentially, there are Pro-Choice Republicans and Pro-Life Democrats.

For example, if I lived in the U.S., only my stance on medical/life/abortion issues would fall in line with the Republican Party - on the other issues (gun control, tax policies, social services, education, universal healthcare, dealth penalty, etc.), I would fit far better with Democrats.

And it is my Christian worldview that affects my position on all those issues - so much so, that regardless of the way I might vote, I would feel as though I was betraying some of my Christian principles.

One last thing - I have no problems with discussing religion and politics - and where the two often (frequently in a heated manner) interact. Provided the discussion takes place outside of a church. While this is my personal opinion, I could never belong to a church/parish where political affiliation was "preached". What I mean by this is a church leadership overtly presenting the expectation that their congregation support/join a particular political party. I know this happens on both sides (Repub. and Dem.) - and it personally bothers me.

 

[Buckalew11]

I agree. I could not or would not attend a church that did that. My preacher will remind people to vote and that's it. I'd say my church has all kinds (democrats, republicans, independants) there. If we were told who to vote for from the pulpit, I'd be walking out the door in the middle of it.

 

[belle&sebastiansmom]

Here's a Comparison Chart of Christian Demoninations' Beliefs that I found interesting and helpful.

http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/charts/denominations_beliefs.htm

 

[Rella Bella]

We have some very dear friends from our church. Our church is most definitely in the "evangelical" category. This couple is very vocal about the fact that they support the Democrat Party. We try to steer clear clear of political discussions since we are Republicans.

I've often wondered how they balance an issue such as abortion between the Democrat party's pro-choice view & the church's view that life begins at conception. However, my curiosity is trumped by my desire to remain friends with this couple.

I am not trying to start a debate here. I am simply attaching a couple of arguments I read that speak to this. Not to say I 100% agree with either, just that they make a point in a way that may be understood by most on either side. (Please notice I said most... some don't think there is any reason worth considering and that is also a valid position.)

Here is one logic for this balance: The Sacredness of Life

And here is another: How dare you support a Pro-Choice candidate

 

[Pin Wizard]

I just wanted to reply to your post. As a Catholic myself, it always saddens me when someone leaves Catholicism for some of the reasons you have outlined - because a number of them are misconceptions or outright inaccuracies. On the other hand, you also said you weren't feeling spiritually nourished in the Catholic Church. While that saddens me too, it's for the fact that you couldn't find a community that encouraged your spiritual growth. Leaving for a church where you could grow spiritually is absolutely the right thing to do - I have no problems with that at all.

Now, I don't want to insult anyone, but asking some of these big theological questions of Catholic clergy or nuns isn't necessarily going to get you good answers. The clergy have (usually) a Master's of Divinity Degree - which trains them to be ministers and gives then a foundation in Church teachings (though not necessarily the reasoning behind some of them).

Personally, I have a BA Specializing in Catholic Studies (minors in Politics and - almost done - History). I've also nearly completed my thesis that will give me an MA in Theology. In other words, I have academic training in Christianity as opposed to ministerial training - and I can tell you that a number of things you mentioned aren't accurate. If any Catholic clergy told you those things, you can tell them that they are wrong.

1. The real presense of Christ in the Eucharist is somewhat complex - it relies on Aristotelian Logic and the concept of Substance and Accidents. However, that wasn't one of my major concerns with what you had been told.
2. Confession (usually called Reconcilliation now) - the Priest technically confirms rather than grants forgiveness - but I'll agree that it should be worded like they do in Eastern Rite Catholic Churches where they say "You are absolved in the name..." rather than "I absolve you in the name..." It has also changed a lot - I haven't been given "Penance" in years - instead, I have spoken with a priest about some of my struggles (let's say anger, for example), and he has suggested some books that could help and other things to move me beyond my sins. I think of it now like free Christian counselling. On the other hand, I disagree that it must be mandatory - I like the Anglican (Episcopalian) view of Reconcilliation - All may, some should, none must.
3. Praying to the Saints for help - if ANYONE told you that the saints can help you directly, they are 100% wrong. A saint can only pray with or for you - to "intercede" on your behalf with God. No different than if you asked me to pray with or for you. God then acts, NOT the saint. Anyone who tells you differently is wrong. Period. If you can't tell, this is one of my biggest pet peeves in terms of Catholic misconceptions.

Anyway, those were some of the main things you mentioned. While I don't expect you to return to Catholicism (and if you don't find yourself growing spiritually there, you really shouldn't) - I just wanted to clear up some of the misinformation you have been given.

I'm really not trying to sound egotistical here - but with my academic training, I actually know far more about Catholicism and Christianity on a theological standpoint than the vast majority of the priests I know.

There are also differences between Roman Catholicism and Eastern Rite.