Considering DVC

[KingRichard]

Please tell everyone how much you pay in yearly dues, taxes, maint. and membership fees for all your timeshares you own and stop avoiding the question.

There is no 2-3 bd units out there that are less then $700-900 per year plus membership cost and trade fees.

Go over to the RCI boards and lots of people complain that they CAN NOT trade into DVC resorts.

 

[Dean]

Please tell everyone how much you pay in yearly dues, taxes, maint. and membership fees for all your timeshares you own and stop avoiding the question.

There is no 2-3 bd units out there that are less then $700-900 per year plus membership cost and trade fees.

Go over to the RCI boards and lots of people complain that they CAN NOT trade into DVC resorts.

I don't think I've been secretive about what I own but I am not comfortable spelling out all the fees, Ultimately you'll have to accept or not that those are my real costs. I have fairly large holdings with Bluegreen, Marriott and DVC so my total yearly costs are fairly significant even after any rentals. I laid out the hard costs above though for the RCI points trades they are actually a little lower. As for the fees for a week owned, I think you're assuming 1 week owned equals one week exchanged and this is definitely not the case for me or at least has not been so historically. Plus as I noted, I get 3 free weeks a year out of Bluegreen and have a week I get 8-10 deposits a year out of at a cost of about $120 per deposit and generally opt for 36,500 RCI points from 3-5 per year. Timesharing changes over time, nothing is constant. If you want to email me privately, I'll be happy to go into more detail. As for trouble exchanging in, I haven't had any in 12 years or so but that could change. We target more off season or shoulder season times purposefully both for availability and travel preference. We also learn how to maximize our chances, including adjusting to changes which always happen.

 

[XGrumpy1]

If you want timeshare cost of ownerships of different timeshares, check out the listings on eBay. The costs are listed.

A friend of mine has Wyndham and has so many points he gets extra perks, free upgrades, sale points, etc. the points were all bought from the developer and the perks go away with resale. I find I can rent points from him cheaper than I could pay the maintenance fees on a $1 timeshare on eBay!

Each system has their own rules and you should know what you are buying, buyer beware!

 

[Dean]

If you want timeshare cost of ownerships of different timeshares, check out the listings on eBay. The costs are listed.

A friend of mine has Wyndham and has so many points he gets extra perks, free upgrades, sale points, etc. the points were all bought from the developer and the perks go away with resale. I find I can rent points from him cheaper than I could pay the maintenance fees on a $1 timeshare on eBay!

Each system has their own rules and you should know what you are buying, buyer beware!

I'm at that level with BG with essentially no developer purchase and it's been very good to me. I would doubt that the VIP perks go with the resale for Wyndham, they haven't historically. I'll defer to those on this board that are more knowledgeable in that area including Jim and Brian.

 

[Judique]

There's no doubt in my mind that what Dean does and what Dean owns works extremely well for Dean!

But that said, the ordinary person who can only vacation a couple of times a year or maybe just once every two years does not have the time - not money - time - to invest in playing the timeshare game. It seems extremely simple for Dean, but his last post spells out many weeks of vacations in a single year! Not an average guy - said respectfully!

Dean - I would just like to buy one additional timeshare - whether it be points based or whatever, that would get me some NON DVC time in places like Hilton Head or even Orlando or elsewhere - US/Canada based - that doesn't cost an arm and a leg up front and that has reasonable fees. I have extremely cold feet about buying anything other then DVC! DVC has actual resale value at least at present, which is more then can be said for most other timeshares.

So, does DVC by itself save you money? The answer is not a simple one.

If you stay at at a value once every one or two years - NO! Dvc will not save you money!

If you stay at a Deluxe once every year and pay 35-40% discounted rates - maybe it will save you a few dollars.

If you want to go 2-3 times a year and live in a studio, a moderate amount of points combined with a few perks will save you a bit of money.

But - if you buy a bunch of points, book 2 bedrooms every time and become the add on king or queen, you will as Deb and Bill say 'drank the koolaid' and it won't end and it will cost you many dollars to keep your DVC habit going for the rest of your life or the length of your contracts, whichever comes first. (By the way, I believe Dean had a few sips of Koolaid also and now is trying to break the habit as well - but it is not completely working!)

That said, Disney is fun and DVC is a comfortable way to enjoy it! You've just got to look at your vacation dollars and decide how many you want to put in the DVC pot. And then stick with that decision! A very small amount of DVC can go a long way. Banking and borrowing can get you a vacation every 2 to 3 years. And buying resale can stretch the points money further. If you decide you want DVC, don't feel as if you have to have so many points to cover every possible season. Buy small - buy resale - buy cash no financing and buy to stay at DVC. And, buy where you want to stay!

 

[bakerworld]

We use to go to Disney twice a year (Feb/Sept) for 3/4/5N at a time and stayed in walking distance of a park (which means deluxe/premium venues) using the AP discount rates. After talking to a DVC guide we realized we could stay for 2 weeks in a studio (Feb/Sept) walking distance to the parks for fairly small amount of points (160). DH refused to hand over $17K so we financed - our 'down' $ was $500 which we put on the Disney Visa Card because it gave us $500 credit. DH said he doesn't buy a car outright (fairly cheap car in today's market) so in 4 years it's paid off and the $$'s still in the bank.

So, this is where it gets expensive ... we started going 3 times a year and our adult children use it also which equaled more pts. Now we want to own at BC or BW for the 11-month home reservation advantage.

Saving $$ by purchasing DVC (either direct or resale - financed or outright) is mainly about self-control and willpower.

 

[Dean]

Dean - I would just like to buy one additional timeshare - whether it be points based or whatever, that would get me some NON DVC time in places like Hilton Head or even Orlando or elsewhere - US/Canada based - that doesn't cost an arm and a leg up front and that has reasonable fees. I have extremely cold feet about buying anything other then DVC! DVC has actual resale value at least at present, which is more then can be said for most other timeshares.

I think you over estimate the amount of time and effort generally needed for other options but there is certainly some. There's no one perfect option in timeshares and HH (esp for summer) is a tough criteria. For summer you essentially need to own at HH if you want to go there routinely. Here are a few thoughts assuming HH at the core and realizing that getting into Orlando is easy at very good places.

Marriott Trust points - too expensive IMO.
Marriott floating or fixed HH week that covers the time you need and has trade priority to other Marriott's. Cost anywhere from $3K to $15K depending on choice. Best likely Grande Ocean Gold Ocean Side which will get you to mid June but not the rest of the summer but will trade like gangbusters with II including Aruba, HI, FL, etc. Cost $5-7K with yearly fees around $1200. A lessor (Harbour pointe) Marriott purchase for mid summer will be much cheaper but will not trade as well due to the resort quality rating.
Buying a good non HH Marriott and trying to trade in. Grande Vista is a good choice for this but there are many others. I like Willow Ridge for cost, lockoff option and surprisingly good trading.
Any one of the other good HH resorts and trade to Orlando.
I'm not aware of a good points system that covers HH and give the other options directly. None of the systems that cover HH that I am aware of fit the bill but maybe others know something I don't. You might want to ask this on TUG.

My best recommendation is to forego HH as a criteria and look at Charleston, Savannah and MB and consider Bluegreen. You get RCI included (can add other weeks), access to a top Orlando resort and some other great options. The other thought would be Wyndham which will cover MB and many other options including Orlando's bonnet creek. BG is a better option for trading (though not as good as it used to be) but Wyndham likely a better system to use internally with more good resorts.

Few options work well on a small scale, that's esp true for BG due to their fee structure with a base fee and additional per point cost. Wyndham is less so but still doesn't work as well in very small packages.

 

[Judique]

I think you over estimate the amount of time and effort generally needed for other options but there is certainly some. There's no one perfect option in timeshares and HH (esp for summer) is a tough criteria. For summer you essentially need to own at HH if you want to go there routinely. Here are a few thoughts assuming HH at the core and realizing that getting into Orlando is easy at very good places.

Marriott Trust points - too expensive IMO.
Marriott floating or fixed HH week that covers the time you need and has trade priority to other Marriott's. Cost anywhere from $3K to $15K depending on choice. Best likely Grande Ocean Gold Ocean Side which will get you to mid June but not the rest of the summer but will trade like gangbusters with II including Aruba, HI, FL, etc. Cost $5-7K with yearly fees around $1200. A lessor (Harbour pointe) Marriott purchase for mid summer will be much cheaper but will not trade as well due to the resort quality rating.
Buying a good non HH Marriott and trying to trade in. Grande Vista is a good choice for this but there are many others. I like Willow Ridge for cost, lockoff option and surprisingly good trading.
Any one of the other good HH resorts and trade to Orlando.
I'm not aware of a good points system that covers HH and give the other options directly. None of the systems that cover HH that I am aware of fit the bill but maybe others know something I don't. You might want to ask this on TUG.

My best recommendation is to forego HH as a criteria and look at Charleston, Savannah and MB and consider Bluegreen. You get RCI included (can add other weeks), access to a top Orlando resort and some other great options. The other thought would be Wyndham which will cover MB and many other options including Orlando's bonnet creek. BG is a better option for trading (though not as good as it used to be) but Wyndham likely a better system to use internally with more good resorts.

Few options work well on a small scale, that's esp true for BG due to their fee structure with a base fee and additional per point cost. Wyndham is less so but still doesn't work as well in very small packages.

Thank you, Dean

I am basically 'over' Hilton Head for the summer months. I've done the 4th of July week many times at Disney's Hilton Head resort - I own a few points there.

I'm more interested in a spring or fall time frame in HH. March, April, May or October into November.

For summer I like to go to New England - Cape Cod particularly, and Newport.

I'm primarily East Coast oriented - not much interested in Mexico or the islands.

I will check out Grande Vista and Willow Ridge.

Which top Orlando resort is Bluegreen?

Wyndham or Marriott were in my top considerations. I am going to sell some DVC (I've got some 50 point Vero that can go!) and switch over to another option.

What I liked about DVC is that it ends! No passing down something that nobody really wants to deal with. No loose ends so to speak.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

I love getting a Disney Hilton Head studio in Winter for $81/night on DVC cash.

(It may be a little more than $81 now...but I'm sure its close to it.) Just a thought.

 

[Dean]

I love getting a Disney Hilton Head studio in Winter for $81/night on DVC cash.

(It may be a little more than $81 now...but I'm sure its close to it.) Just a thought.

For those that don't mind the colder temps and that some options are closed, we also enjoy such areas off season. We just got in the door from PC. For us though it's even more important to be ON the beach for these trips than for warm times. One can exchange into HH for a song during Dec through Feb excluding Xmas to NY and have lots of nice options including DVC. It can also be a good time to rent distressed points for a time that already has low points costs.

 

[Dean]

Thank you, Dean

I am basically 'over' Hilton Head for the summer months. I've done the 4th of July week many times at Disney's Hilton Head resort - I own a few points there.

I'm more interested in a spring or fall time frame in HH. March, April, May or October into November.

For summer I like to go to New England - Cape Cod particularly, and Newport.

I'm primarily East Coast oriented - not much interested in Mexico or the islands.

I will check out Grande Vista and Willow Ridge.

Which top Orlando resort is Bluegreen?

Wyndham or Marriott were in my top considerations. I am going to sell some DVC (I've got some 50 point Vero that can go!) and switch over to another option.

What I liked about DVC is that it ends! No passing down something that nobody really wants to deal with. No loose ends so to speak.

We love HH for summer but partly because this is a good time to get family together since so many of them are tied to school schedules. Since you're looking at shoulder season and below, trading in should be fairly easy with planning. For Marriott there's good resorts to use and good resorts to trade with not much crossover IMO. For those just getting into it or doing limited trips this way, I'd rather see them buy something they'll use and then trade part of the time than just looking for a trade bait option even if it's more expensive. For trading I prefer the cheaper resorts for the higher seasons that are lockoff's. One also needs to consider the resort quality as this is a separate qualifying factor within II from trade power (which they keep somewhat secret). It can keep you out of top resorts or lower resorts depending on where you sit.

What's the best balance (and is there one for a given person) is very variable. Don't forget to look at fees including trade fees and exchange membership fees. Grande Vista has lockoff 2 & 3 BR units, platinum there is the way to go for trading. Ocean Pointe is another option that might fit your needs, Gold or even silver might fit your needs. I still like HH to buy for Gold but mostly at Grande Ocean because it has 2 weeks later in the summer than the other top Marriott's there and thus will give you better trade power, but no lockoff's though you should get a bonus week when traded with II. Ocean Watch in MB is great to use but it's likely less from a trading standpoint.

One should be able to pick up a Legends Edge Platinum (no lockoff) in PC for a song , same for Willow Ridge Platinum which has lockoff's and lower fees though they are climbing somewhat since Marriott converted it to a regular MVCI property rather than Horizon's.

I can't say much about The NE though BG and Wyndham have options up that way. The Big Kahuna in BG for Orlando is The Fountains (and Oasis Lakes). IMO it's one of the very top options. If you rank the top 11 or so resorts I listed this week on another thread plus the 7 DCV options and ignore location and theming, I'd put it maybe 3 behind the top Hilton and top Marriott and maybe 2 if you put major emphasis on the pool with kids. If you throw location into the mix it'll drop somewhat because it's on I drive but it moves ahead of Marriott's Lakeshore Reserve which is a few miles further.

Marriott will give you the best quality and high end options but Wyndham and BG should be cheaper in the short and long run and move you away from the exchanging to direct use within their system though it depends. IMO, Marriott (really all of these) only makes sense if you'll use all the time (directly or exchange) and will plan ahead including planning to uptrade at basically every opportunity. I think BG only makes sense if you're looking at 18-20K points or above. For Wyndham it's more variable but there is still an economy of scale. One thing about OP and GV for Marriott is that you can reserve other FL club properties directly (OP, GV, LE in PC, Beachplace Towers and Doral). This can be a major advantage for trading and usage, esp for trading if you own one that doesn't have lockoff's like LE or Doral.

Just spend the time so you know what's best for you because it might be different than for me. It's also possible that DVC/RCI will change to a more favorable position. If they allow reduced cost exchanges on short notice and for DVC members to chose a week to deposit (they used to years ago) and to allow them to take advantage of the TPU's accordingly then DVC could become a great option to trade as well.

 

[Judique]

We love HH for summer but partly because this is a good time to get family together since so many of them are tied to school schedules. Since you're looking at shoulder season and below, trading in should be fairly easy with planning. For Marriott there's good resorts to use and good resorts to trade with not much crossover IMO. For those just getting into it or doing limited trips this way, I'd rather see them buy something they'll use and then trade part of the time than just looking for a trade bait option even if it's more expensive. For trading I prefer the cheaper resorts for the higher seasons that are lockoff's. One also needs to consider the resort quality as this is a separate qualifying factor within II from trade power (which they keep somewhat secret). It can keep you out of top resorts or lower resorts depending on where you sit.

What's the best balance (and is there one for a given person) is very variable. Don't forget to look at fees including trade fees and exchange membership fees. Grande Vista has lockoff 2 & 3 BR units, platinum there is the way to go for trading. Ocean Pointe is another option that might fit your needs, Gold or even silver might fit your needs. I still like HH to buy for Gold but mostly at Grande Ocean because it has 2 weeks later in the summer than the other top Marriott's there and thus will give you better trade power, but no lockoff's though you should get a bonus week when traded with II. Ocean Watch in MB is great to use but it's likely less from a trading standpoint.

One should be able to pick up a Legends Edge Platinum (no lockoff) in PC for a song , same for Willow Ridge Platinum which has lockoff's and lower fees though they are climbing somewhat since Marriott converted it to a regular MVCI property rather than Horizon's.

I can't say much about The NE though BG and Wyndham have options up that way. The Big Kahuna in BG for Orlando is The Fountains (and Oasis Lakes). IMO it's one of the very top options. If you rank the top 11 or so resorts I listed this week on another thread plus the 7 DCV options and ignore location and theming, I'd put it maybe 3 behind the top Hilton and top Marriott and maybe 2 if you put major emphasis on the pool with kids. If you throw location into the mix it'll drop somewhat because it's on I drive but it moves ahead of Marriott's Lakeshore Reserve which is a few miles further.

Marriott will give you the best quality and high end options but Wyndham and BG should be cheaper in the short and long run and move you away from the exchanging to direct use within their system though it depends. IMO, Marriott (really all of these) only makes sense if you'll use all the time (directly or exchange) and will plan ahead including planning to uptrade at basically every opportunity. I think BG only makes sense if you're looking at 18-20K points or above. For Wyndham it's more variable but there is still an economy of scale. One thing about OP and GV for Marriott is that you can reserve other FL club properties directly (OP, GV, LE in PC, Beachplace Towers and Doral). This can be a major advantage for trading and usage, esp for trading if you own one that doesn't have lockoff's like LE or Doral.

Just spend the time so you know what's best for you because it might be different than for me. It's also possible that DVC/RCI will change to a more favorable position. If they allow reduced cost exchanges on short notice and for DVC members to chose a week to deposit (they used to years ago) and to allow them to take advantage of the TPU's accordingly then DVC could become a great option to trade as well.

Thank you again. I've saved this posting to refer to later. There's a lot to consider.

 

[Dean]

Thank you again. I've saved this posting to refer to later. There's a lot to consider.

Once you get some points of reference, it's not that complicated. Don't rely simply on my postings of general info. Go to TUG and get further educated on such matters so you can figure out that perfect option for you and your family.

 

[frank808]

I don't think I've been secretive about what I own but I am not comfortable spelling out all the fees, Ultimately you'll have to accept or not that those are my real costs. I have fairly large holdings with Bluegreen, Marriott and DVC so my total yearly costs are fairly significant even after any rentals. I laid out the hard costs above though for the RCI points trades they are actually a little lower. As for the fees for a week owned, I think you're assuming 1 week owned equals one week exchanged and this is definitely not the case for me or at least has not been so historically. Plus as I noted, I get 3 free weeks a year out of Bluegreen and have a week I get 8-10 deposits a year out of at a cost of about $120 per deposit and generally opt for 36,500 RCI points from 3-5 per year. Timesharing changes over time, nothing is constant. If you want to email me privately, I'll be happy to go into more detail. As for trouble exchanging in, I haven't had any in 12 years or so but that could change. We target more off season or shoulder season times purposefully both for availability and travel preference. We also learn how to maximize our chances, including adjusting to changes which always happen.

Well with 10 exchanges per year your annual cost per udi would be about $155 per week. You add the $155($90m/f plus $65 housekeeping)+$199 (rci exchange fee)+$95 disney fee=$449 per week.
If you use tpus for rci remember the RCI combo fee so that will also increase your costs. You will need multiple units to get a 2BR DVC unit.
Also RCI limits you to only 3 deposit per udi per rci account. You would need to set up multiple weeks account to get more than 3 deposits so that also increases your costs.

 

[Dean]

Well with 10 exchanges per year your annual cost per udi would be about $155 per week. You add the $155($90m/f plus $65 housekeeping)+$199 (rci exchange fee)+$95 disney fee=$449 per week.
If you use tpus for rci remember the RCI combo fee so that will also increase your costs. You will need multiple units to get a 2BR DVC unit.
Also RCI limits you to only 3 deposit per udi per rci account. You would need to set up multiple weeks account to get more than 3 deposits so that also increases your costs.

That sounds accurate going forward but historically it's been less and that was my reference, I believe I noted above that the costs would be more going forward and that my reference were what my costs had been. The other issue is that it's only one $95 fee per stay, not per week if you stay longer. Your numbers put the costs at around $500 per exchange going forward though I'm inclined to think it'll be a little more. 3 free deposits per year plus multiple 12K BG deposits at 57-60 TPU (also historical as this is no longer an option with RCI but I had deposits on file) and multiple deposits at 3000K per (also no longer an option with RCI, plus multiple bonus week exchanges and cheap studios (with II). Changes will always occur and the current setup will increase the costs somewhat both due to the increased TPU and changes within BG but still FAR less than owning DVC for the same option though as I noted, partly due to my positioning and economy of scale. Direct reservations using DVC points would generally be in the 200-300 point per reservation (about 2/3 1BR the rest 2 BR). Dues alone would be roughly double the costs going forward ignoring the up front costs. Exchanging in is certainly not for everyone, it involves planning, some risk and effort and is best for lower seasons and the rules change over time.

 

[frank808]

That sounds accurate going forward but historically it's been less and that was my reference, I believe I noted above that the costs would be more going forward and that my reference were what my costs had been. The other issue is that it's only one $95 fee per stay, not per week if you stay longer. Your numbers put the costs at around $500 per exchange going forward though I'm inclined to think it'll be a little more. 3 free deposits per year plus multiple 12K BG deposits at 57-60 TPU (also historical as this is no longer an option with RCI but I had deposits on file) and multiple deposits at 3000K per (also no longer an option with RCI, plus multiple bonus week exchanges and cheap studios (with II). Changes will always occur and the current setup will increase the costs somewhat both due to the increased TPU and changes within BG but still FAR less than owning DVC for the same option though as I noted, partly due to my positioning and economy of scale. Direct reservations using DVC points would generally be in the 200-300 point per reservation (about 2/3 1BR the rest 2 BR). Dues alone would be roughly double the costs going forward ignoring the up front costs. Exchanging in is certainly not for everyone, it involves planning, some risk and effort and is best for lower seasons and the rules change over time.

Wanted the readers to know what the current rates were. The costs and rules have gone up the past 2 years. They are always changing with RCI. The acceptance of multiple deposits into points was great but they closed that loophole.
Agreed that exchanging is not for everyone. You do have to put in time and effort for that "cheap" stay. You also have to be very flexible when dealing with the exchange companies. If you have a set schedule or need to go during peak times, you will probably not look at exchanging and be better off buying where you want.

 

[DisneyRegulars]

To go back to the original question...

A lot of people said 'DON'T FINANCE' and 'SAVE UP THE MONEY AND PAY CASH', but if it is going to take 2-3 years to save the money then there may be some value to you to financing. I know there was for us. I didn't want to wait until my son was 5 years old to start going to Disney, and didn't want to continue paying cash to Disney that could be going towards our DVC purchase.

We ended up buying resale and got a 5 year personal loan from our bank for 4%. The couple hundred dollars of interest fees was more than worth it to us. Just wanted to lay it out there that there are other financing options than just directly through Disney, and that there may be 'value' in financing too.

 

[Dean]

Wanted the readers to know what the current rates were. The costs and rules have gone up the past 2 years. They are always changing with RCI. The acceptance of multiple deposits into points was great but they closed that loophole.
Agreed that exchanging is not for everyone. You do have to put in time and effort for that "cheap" stay. You also have to be very flexible when dealing with the exchange companies. If you have a set schedule or need to go during peak times, you will probably not look at exchanging and be better off buying where you want.

I'm sure all appreciate the additional information. Fortunately for me the 3 free weeks reduces the costs going forward, at least for the near term. I would agree that buying just to trade into DVC is a high risk option and that it'll continue to be a moving target.

 

[KingRichard]

So basically it doesn't cost $400 for a 2 bedroom. Hate it when people are mislead.

Also you still must factor into the cost of the maint. dues, taxes and fees on the timeshare that gets traded even if you do get extra weeks.

 

[Deb & Bill]

So basically it doesn't cost $400 for a 2 bedroom. Hate it when people are mislead.

Also you still must factor into the cost of the maint. dues, taxes and fees on the timeshare that gets traded even if you do get extra weeks.

What do you mean? Using points and calculating an equivalent or paying cash through Disney?